barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yes.So when is the time to sell Hill? Now? When he’s been cleared but before Goodell can suspend him? After his suspension? When he officially comes back?
Yes.So when is the time to sell Hill? Now? When he’s been cleared but before Goodell can suspend him? After his suspension? When he officially comes back?
Most likely if you try to sell now, you're going to get somebody who wants a discount. If that's the case, I'd rather keep him.So when is the time to sell Hill? Now? When he’s been cleared but before Goodell can suspend him? After his suspension? When he officially comes back?
I tried to buy before the rumors of T. Hill going to training camp and the news that no criminal investigation was open and was asked for OBJ for T. Hill. Some people never chose to discount him, which is their choice.Most likely if you try to sell now, you're going to get somebody who wants a discount. If that's the case, I'd rather keep him.
just keep in mind that guys with problems usually screw up more than once. It is simple risk tolerance and so next year if screws up again I don't need to worry about it. I much prefer really clean, good guys like a Barkley or a McCaffrey. Everyone is commenting on this one specific situation and not accounting for the fact that he could screw up again. He obviously didn't learn/change after his initial incident, what makes you think he will now. Give me the risk avoidance all day. I can win without himjoey said:Yeah, I don’t understand how it seems so outrageous that some fantasy owners prefer to avoid players with off the field “issues”. It’s simple risk tolerance.
Personally, I’ve held Hill this whole time in FFPC instead of selling low during this time of uncertainty, but that’s both because I’m willing to take the risk in order to have a top5-ish WR, as well as the fact that my WR Core is very thin behind him.
NEVERSo when is the time to sell Hill? Now? When he’s been cleared but before Goodell can suspend him? After his suspension? When he officially comes back?
If it turns out that he in fact didn't do anything wrong, then maybe he has learned/changed.just keep in mind that guys with problems usually screw up more than once. It is simple risk tolerance and so next year if screws up again I don't need to worry about it. I much prefer really clean, good guys like a Barkley or a McCaffrey. Everyone is commenting on this one specific situation and not accounting for the fact that he could screw up again. He obviously didn't learn/change after his initial incident, what makes you think he will now. Give me the risk avoidance all day. I can win without him
all I'm saying is I sold early on Aaron Hernandez, Justin Blackmon, Josh Gordon and didn't wind up upset. Usually where there is smoke there is fire and normally a guy with problems doesn't change. I may be over simplifying but it also allows me to spend time on analysis of other players, why do I need this additional headache?If it turns out that he in fact didn't do anything wrong, then maybe he has learned/changed.
If you want to say the phone call makes it seem like he hasn't learned/changed....I guess you don't see her condition/mental issues as a mitigating factor that could have led him to say something like that in a "pre planned recorded call" where she is trying to push buttons in order to get that or some similar reaction out of him. Hill has probably been dealing with things/conversations like that for awhile and maybe wasn't really educated or sure how to handle things. She had an agenda when she recorded that call.
The recording will get him 2-4 games but he's staying a chief at this point which is huge for his dynasty value. Something else could easily come out in the coming weeks. At this pount though he's looking at 2-4 games imo.Yikes...those that sold him for a sandwich may be in the hurt if he comes out of this unscathed.
I sold OJ Howard and 1.6 to buy Hill this summer...then panicked when things looked at their worse and sold him for a 2nd that turned into Isabella. I am kicking myself every day over it too. But I did get him in another dynasty league for a 2020 3rd and moved Golladay for him in 1 other league. I have no idea what I'm doing sometimesYikes...those that sold him for a sandwich may be in the hurt if he comes out of this unscathed.
Lol...nobody can see the future and much of this hobby is speculation and luck. He is not out of the woods completely but things look better for him today compared to several weeks ago.I sold OJ Howard and 1.6 to buy Hill this summer...then panicked when things looked at their worse and sold him for a 2nd that turned into Isabella. I am kicking myself every day over it too. But I did get him in another dynasty league for a 2020 3rd and moved Golladay for him in 1 other league. I have no idea what I'm doing sometimes
Was a good decision at the time given information at hand. He still may get suspended based on what we know. As I understand it CPS is still investigating. Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.If he gets through this with a small suspension then I will definitely have sold him for a loss relative to what his new market will likely settle at. But I managed to get big pieces back in the 3 cases I sold him, and they are all profitable moves in the longterm relative to the fact I originally got him off waivers. That's lipstick on a pig but he could still miss significant time. I may lose here when it's over but I did minimize my losses compared to what would have happened if he were to get the ban. Which no I don't think is in play anymore. Unless he effs up again after this, which isn't out of the question. Can't wait for the 30 for 30 though. I hope the kid's childhood improves.
When I sold him I foresaw this possible outcome and decided I was ok with a minimal loss like this. By minimal I don't mean non significant. My teams will not have improved by me shipping him, if he gets thru this. It absolutely is a hit. But I decided I was ok with that hit relative to the risk I measured that Hill would either be banned or suspended for a long time. Or perhaps cut. I can own being wrong on this.
Lot of stuff to play out still, we'll see what the league does but a multi-game suspension is still pretty likely. I also wouldn't be surprised if he gets the franchise tag next year instead of that sizable extension that was supposedly in the works prior to all this news coming out. I sold him high in one league and super-low in another, but it's just magic football at the end of the day and I won't lose sleep over it. Based on the info leaked and his prior history, Tyreek seems to have a very high probability to be back in the news for the wrong reasons soon enough as it is.If he gets through this with a small suspension then I will definitely have sold him for a loss relative to what his new market will likely settle at. But I managed to get big pieces back in the 3 cases I sold him, and they are all profitable moves in the longterm relative to the fact I originally got him off waivers. That's lipstick on a pig but he could still miss significant time. I may lose here when it's over but I did minimize my losses compared to what would have happened if he were to get the ban. Which no I don't think is in play anymore. Unless he effs up again after this, which isn't out of the question. Can't wait for the 30 for 30 though. I hope the kid's childhood improves.
When I sold him I foresaw this possible outcome and decided I was ok with a minimal loss like this. By minimal I don't mean non significant. My teams will not have improved by me shipping him, if he gets thru this. It absolutely is a hit. But I decided I was ok with that hit relative to the risk I measured that Hill would either be banned or suspended for a long time. Or perhaps cut. I can own being wrong on this.
It is unlikely they are still investigating. It is more likely the investigation is over, but services were court ordered due to the report the child was removed from the home.Was a good decision at the time given information at hand. He still may get suspended based on what we know. As I understand it CPS is still investigating. Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.
LINKThe investigation into the couple’s parenting accelerated when Overland Park police checked on the boy in March and found bruises and welts on his body. Both Hill and Espinal have admitted to investigators that they spanked the 3 year old with their hands and a belt, but prosecutors can’t determine for sure which parent, or if both, went too far.
if you have time....still waiting for your answer on how Hill is a multi time offender....?Somewhat glossed over in the recent article that said Hill was not responsible for breaking his son's arm is other information in the article that indicates he and his fiance were under investigation for the child having bruises and welts on his body.
LINK
There's still stuff the league can point to as improper behavior, especially if Hill admitted to using a belt to investigators. ADP admitted to similar behavior and missed 15 games. Do pictures of ADP's kid trump audio of Hill's threat to his fiance? Who knows?
Really? He strangled his pregnant fiancé and now is involved in another incident involving her and that child.if you have time....still waiting for your answer on how Hill is a multi time offender....?
if you say this now....one could argue, you need to have also said it before he was drafted into the NFL....because "technically" from what we know right now nothing has really changed...cobalt_27 said:Was a good decision at the time given information at hand. He still may get suspended based on what we know. As I understand it CPS is still investigating. Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.
you used multi time "offender" several times....he has had only one offense....Really? He strangled his pregnant fiancé and now is involved in another incident involving her and that child.
Put another way, if he didn’t have the first one incident, the second one might be looked at differently. He has a history that dates back several years.
I am giving my perspective to what THE LEAGUE will view as a second offense. We already know they don’t care what the legal system thinks. They will look to punish Hill as someone that already has a history office inappropriate behavior.you used multi time "offender" several times....he has had only one offense....
seems that you are labeling what has been going on here as another "offense" by Hill....while the information we have now seems to indicate he may in fact have done nothing wrong....especially to labeled a "multi time offender"...it may be semantics to you, and you consider what has been happening as an "offense" by Hill....but really at this point there is no other offense.....and if you factor in her issues with the pre planned recorded call....you could even see a possible explanation for him losing his cool and saying something like he did in the tape as she was driving that bus with an agenda...
thats somewhat fair....it's kind of funny because in most of my comments, I am also trying to come from the league's perspective in that if I am the league and I do hand down a suspension....what can I confidently say is the basis for the suspension....I realize, that can be all over the map as far as the league is concerned....hell for Brady it was " more probable than not that he was at least "generally aware" of the inappropriate activities"....so who knows....I am giving my perspective to what THE LEAGUE will view as a second offense. We already know they don’t care what the legal system thinks. They will look to punish Hill as someone that already has a history office inappropriate behavior.
As for the fiancé, all we know is that there has been talk that she may have a behavioral issue. No one has determined that she does.
I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A. If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again. But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.and as the article says with regards to the spanking and belt...we don't know that it was Hill that went "too far"....and if she does have the condition mentioned above, and some of the comments that have been made about her doing things to try and set him up/shame him....it seems reasonable that she easily could have been the one that went too far....
The problem with a lot of this content is that we have no idea what T. Hill and his lawyer said in court against the mother. The court system would be the place to factually attack a persons character.I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A. If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again. But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.
if I were involved in a DCYF investigation and basically my partner was either setting me up or in the process of breaking up with me, THE LAST thing I would be doing is keeping quiet. I would have been doing everything I could to keep my partner from spending excessive time or getting custody of my kid. Hill didn’t go that route either. It sounds like the plan for in investigation was to mostly keep quiet and not divulge much information. If she really was the psychotic one and the one that was the perpetrator, then the appropriate response would have been to eat her out. He could have done that after the tape came out but didn’t then either.
I would put the chance that Hill was not involved at close to nothing, and even so then he was covering up for someone that was responsible. Either one of those would be considered as a violation to the NFL’s personal conduct policy (engaging in actions that result in at risk behavior dangerous to others including a child).
debating on screaming from the rooftops was done a long time ago in this thread.....at the beginning he hadn't even been accused of anything so there wasn't anything to scream about....Hill did come out and deny ever abusing his child....if he didn't do it fast enough for some people and they want to make that a part of him being "guilty" of something, so be it, but it appears those that did so and continue to do so are being proven wrong around almost every corner....I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A. If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again. But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.
if I were involved in a DCYF investigation and basically my partner was either setting me up or in the process of breaking up with me, THE LAST thing I would be doing is keeping quiet. I would have been doing everything I could to keep my partner from spending excessive time or getting custody of my kid. Hill didn’t go that route either. It sounds like the plan for in investigation was to mostly keep quiet and not divulge much information. If she really was the psychotic one and the one that was the perpetrator, then the appropriate response would have been to eat her out. He could have done that after the tape came out but didn’t then either.
I would put the chance that Hill was not involved at close to nothing, and even so then he was covering up for someone that was responsible. Either one of those would be considered as a violation to the NFL’s personal conduct policy (engaging in actions that result in at risk behavior dangerous to others including a child).
But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.The problem with a lot of this content is that we have no idea what T. Hill and his lawyer said in court against the mother. The court system would be the place to factually attack a persons character.
Just because he didn’t conduct a public interview doesn’t mean he is guilty. Most attorneys advise not to talk about the facts and evidence of the case before the trial.
thats easy to say if you KNOW YOU ARE BEING RECORDED.....But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.
i understand there are way different thresholds for police, state invoked family, and NFL investigations. IMO, the league has ample evidence to throw the book at Hill, even with other recent reports that the fiancé has her own issues or acted inappropriately.
The league’s perspective is what will matter the most in terms of Hill’s availability to be on the football field for actual games. We know (at least for now) the legal system will not be pulling Hill off the field as he will not be spending any time in county lock up.
Based o how the NFL has handled other incidents, I still think they will act and suspend Hill. But we are still always away from seeing what the league will do.
Sorry for not being clear. I was responding to the part about if it was you, you would have spoken up by now against Ms. Espinal. Essentially damning his silence. That is where I will say the facts need only be said at the court hearing, there is no reason to go public with that information unless the end game is more about attacking the other person. Being silent, like Hill was, was the appropriate move.But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.
i understand there are way different thresholds for police, state invoked family, and NFL investigations. IMO, the league has ample evidence to throw the book at Hill, even with other recent reports that the fiancé has her own issues or acted inappropriately.
The league’s perspective is what will matter the most in terms of Hill’s availability to be on the football field for actual games. We know (at least for now) the legal system will not be pulling Hill off the field as he will not be spending any time in county lock up.
Based o how the NFL has handled other incidents, I still think they will act and suspend Hill. But we are still always away from seeing what the league will do.
Never thought of it this way. Didn't think about all the factors, but regardless, If I ever told my girlfriend/fiance/wife this I would expect that relationship to be over. it would never be acceptable for me to say that.Yes, I know this is only speculation, but...
Suppose you're Tyreek Hill and you have a child with a woman who is mentally unstable with twins on the way. After your son breaks his arm in an accident, she arranges for a third party to make a call to investigators and falsely accuse you of being responsible for the child's injury, derailing contract talks and potentially threatening your career.
Would your frustration with the whole situation explain saying something along the lines of "you should be terrified of me too, #####"?
I know I've said much worse with far less provocation.
Agreed. It would likewise never be acceptable for a parent to allegedly make a knowingly false accusation to police against the other parent to gain leverage in the relationship, so I'd be out long before the conversation was taped.Never thought of it this way. Didn't think about all the factors, but regardless, If I ever told my girlfriend/fiance/wife this I would expect that relationship to be over. it would never be acceptable for me to say that.
Oh so it’s on her and her “mental issues.” Wow.if you say this now....one could argue, you need to have also said it before he was drafted into the NFL....because "technically" from what we know right now nothing has really changed...
I think ticking time bomb is a little bit of an exaggeration.....and maybe one thing I might take from all this is that Hill, having gone through all this, may mind his P's and Q's moving forward more than other players....being on his "best behavior" may be a priority now more than ever....especially since services have been put into place and it appears his fiance with mental issues will maybe not be a major part of his life moving forward or he has the education and support to deal with her and maybe she also gets the help she needs...they have children on the way, so there may always be a connection....but the games, jockeying and positioning within the relationship and sabotaging each other should be over.....
Have you read the thread and the links/information that has been provided including the things she has admitted too....sure it takes two to tango sometimes.....but she appears to have a major role in this no matter what you think of Hill....the recent incidents are actually leaning toward being more “on her and her mental issues”.....Oh so it’s on her and her “mental issues.” Wow.
Yup. This is generally how domestic abuse and rape against women--misogyny in general--is supported. Nevermind that a guy threw around, choked, and belly-punched his pregnant girlfriend. She was the one with "mental issues." Nevermind verbal threats made by the guy that she should be terrified of him. She was the one with mental issues. Nevermind whatever has happened to make his own kid terrified of him. It was probably her fault.Have you read the thread and the links/information that has been provided including the things she has admitted too....sure it takes two to tango sometimes.....but she appears to have a major role in this no matter what you think of Hill....the recent incidents are actually leaning toward being more “on her and her mental issues”.....
look man....nobody is denying Hill has a bad past....he is a scumbag as far as that goes.....he admitted guilt and took his punishment....hopefully he will get more help and become a better father/husband....but the fiance has admitted to not only abusing the child but to lying and making things up and intentionally trying to shame Hill and set him up to make him look bad....if you choose to discount those things and think she has no role in the recent events so be it....not once has anybody said "it's all on her" so please don't try to twist things....the recent events and her admissions to what she has been doing indicate that not only does she play a major role in them, but she has done so with some premeditation....Yup. This is generally how domestic abuse and rape against women--misogyny in general--is supported. Nevermind that a guy threw around, choked, and belly-punched his pregnant girlfriend. She was the one with "mental issues." Nevermind verbal threats made by the guy that she should be terrified of him. She was the one with mental issues. Nevermind whatever has happened to make his own kid terrified of him. It was probably her fault.
Always, always blame the women when men are unable to control their behaviors. Chicks always deserve what they got comin' to them.
I wouldn’t disagree, but Hill’s issue is much less of a risk than things surrounding other character concerns. Drugs & alcohol, for example, because of the dependency.Regardless of how this plays out, this guy will always be a huge risk. If in fact he has not already run out of rope, his next mistake will likely be his last as an NFL football player - and this guy seems to be quite a bit mistake-prone. I think he carries similar risk to Josh Gordon. Different reasons for the risk, but similar downgrade in value seems logical to me. Granted, people may have undersold him when they possibly panic-sold, but that doesnt mean it still wont play out in their favor. This guy is a ticking timebomb of heinous behavior and horrible decisions.
So how many games are you thinking he will miss?Looks like he's come away clean for the most part after 2-3 different investigations. Glad I still own him right now but I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes out that he is then cleared of again before the season starts.
2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though.So how many games are you thinking he will miss?
I will take the over on 4 games. I am thinking 4-8.2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though.