WRs in Baltimore (1 Viewer)

[hollaatyaboy]

I'm super high on the Raven's WRs although the situation worries me a lot. However, assuming McNair goes there I can see the situation flipping around.

With Mark Clayton coming on strong last year at the end, and with tremendous upside where does he fit with targets? How far along is he as a reciever and how much talent does he have?

If McNair comed back do we see more targets for Mason because of the titans-commection?

So, lots of Qs, and I'm seeing if anyone has any thoughts of how it will pan out -- total stats and split between recievers.

 

[hollaatyaboy]

any raven homers have any insight?

 

[AnonymousBob]

I don't think Mason needs more targets to become effective. His lack of td's were the only thing that kept him from shooting up the charts.

Really though, I don't think even homers can answer who McNair would throw to.

 

[cws3030]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

 

[perry147]

I'm super high on the Raven's WRs although the situation worries me a lot. However, assuming McNair goes there I can see the situation flipping around.

With Mark Clayton coming on strong last year at the end, and with tremendous upside where does he fit with targets? How far along is he as a reciever and how much talent does he have?

If McNair comed back do we see more targets for Mason because of the titans-commection?

So, lots of Qs, and I'm seeing if anyone has any thoughts of how it will pan out -- total stats and split between recievers.

Easy easy there.This is the Ravens we are talking about here which means run first. I like Mark Clayton and what he did last year, but even if the Ravens get McNair or Collins the value of WR's in this offense is still not that great from a FF prospective.

 

[zamboni]

I don't think Mason needs more targets to become effective.  His lack of td's were the only thing that kept him from shooting up the charts. 

Agreed - I think last year could arguably be Mason's most impressive season yet, considering he went to a new team and had Anthony Wrong and Kyle Boller throwing to him.

 

[LHUCKS]

Clayton has legit #1 ability, whereas Mason always has been a subpar #1 IMHO.

 

[diesel7982]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

 

[cws3030]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

from watching him play, he plays much taller than 5'11. i'm not sure what is combine stats were. but he is definitely athletic enough to make those jump ball catches in the corner

 

[LHUCKS]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

from watching him play, he plays much taller than 5'11.

I agree completely...surprised he's only that tall to be honest.

 

[Arnold. S]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

he's not necessarily the randy Moss type of end zone target, but if you watched his college highlights, he knows how to fight for the balls in the endzone even though he can't get up extremely high

 

[diesel7982]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

he's not necessarily the randy Moss type of end zone target, but if you watched his college highlights, he knows how to fight for the balls in the endzone even though he can't get up extremely high

I dont doubt that he could in college, but with that sort of limited height and jumping ability, theres only so much you can do against good NFL DBs.

 

[cws3030]

i still like clayton since he has the big play capability and can grab the jump ball in the endzone.

both had 43 targets in the last 5 games last year.

Just curious as to where that bolded part comes from.Clayton is 5'10-5'11 and wasn't a special jumper at the combine last year.

from watching him play, he plays much taller than 5'11.

I agree completely...surprised he's only that tall to be honest.

i'd be curious to see what is wing span is.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Mason's value should go up with a reunion with McNair.

Clayton is a talent, for certain, and came on stronger in the back half of 2005 (once he started over Moore).

Moore is 6'6" and has end zone fade pattern written all over him.

Todd Heap is also a major factor.

The Ravens COULD be the next Chiefs type offense - they have a Pro Bowl TE, solid RBs, and good WR 1 and 2. The QB is the setback. Playcalling suffers as they are forced to run and throw short due to the liability of the signal caller.

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Demetrius Williams will be competing with Moore and Devard Darling (injury dissappointment) for the WR3 slot. Williams could play a role as a deep threat from day 1 in 3 or 4 WR sets. Whoever QBs the Ravens will have some weapons to work with.

 

[LHUCKS]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

 

[LHUCKS]

Mason's value should go up with a reunion with McNair.

This I agree with...he's certainly a more safe pick with McNair almost on board.

 

[cws3030]

Mason's value should go up with a reunion with McNair.

Clayton is a talent, for certain, and came on stronger in the back half of 2005 (once he started over Moore).

Moore is 6'6" and has end zone fade pattern written all over him.

Todd Heap is also a major factor.

The Ravens COULD be the next Chiefs type offense - they have a Pro Bowl TE, solid RBs, and good WR 1 and 2. The QB is the setback. Playcalling suffers as they are forced to run and throw short due to the liability of the signal caller.

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

heap does get most of the fade looks but moore disapeared last year after clayton came on (i don't think he was hurt?). there is a better chance of clayton turning a short possesion pass into a big play than mason, for that reason i give him the nod. even in a ppr league. i think clayton narrows that gap this year.

couldn't agree more about billick beaing the OC under denny and having a large vocabulary, really paid off

 

[roadkill1292]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

I'm afraid the Ravens' offensive woes under Billick precede Boller.But another for Clayton. He's going to be very solid in this league.

 

[Couch Potato]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

But Kyle Boller is legendary. He once threw a football over Mt. Everest from his knees, you know.

 

[LHUCKS]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

But Kyle Boller is legendary. He once threw a football over Mt. Everest from his knees, you know.

That and he hails from the best conference in the land.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Demetrius Williams will be competing with Moore and Devard Darling (injury dissappointment) for the WR3 slot. Williams could play a role as a deep threat from day 1 in 3 or 4 WR sets. Whoever QBs the Ravens will have some weapons to work with.

While I agree with this, his upside this year is limited. Billick runs a complicated offense (yeah, I know - where's the production), and Demetrius isn't known for his ability to run block. I see about 30-40 targets max on a few go routes from the Z / slot.

 

[fatness]

i'd be curious to see what is wing swan is.

I'd be curious to know what you mean.

 

[hollaatyaboy]

any predictions for mason & clayton...with either mcnair or boller.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Demetrius Williams will be competing with Moore and Devard Darling (injury dissappointment) for the WR3 slot. Williams could play a role as a deep threat from day 1 in 3 or 4 WR sets. Whoever QBs the Ravens will have some weapons to work with.

While I agree with this, his upside this year is limited. Billick runs a complicated offense (yeah, I know - where's the production), and Demetrius isn't known for his ability to run block. I see about 30-40 targets max on a few go routes from the Z / slot.

Yeah im not suggesting Williams will do anything of consequence as an individual, but if he is ready to play as a WR3 at times, he could help open up the middle for heap among others.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Actually it's more like 20 words:Stoney Case

Scott Mitchell

Tony Banks

Trent Dilfer

Chris Redman

Elvis Grbac

Jeff Blake

Kyle Boller

Anthony Wright

Kordell Stewart

:X

I'm pretty sure they are all sub 60% completions and more INTs than TDs with the Ravens. The only Raven QB not to fit that description was an old, tired Randall Cunningham who threw less than 100 passes in '01 and made just over 60%, with 3tds to 2 ints.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

i'd be curious to see what is wing swan is.

I'd be curious to know what you mean.

I'm guessing he meant wing span.

 

[cws3030]

i'd be curious to see what is wing swan is.

I'd be curious to know what you mean.

I'm guessing he meant wing span.

no i meant swan

 

[fatness]

OK, I'm all edumacated now.

 

[toxicbees]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

 

[Couch Potato]

i'd be curious to see what is wing swan is.

I'd be curious to know what you mean.

I'm guessing he meant wing span.

no i meant swan

You think you know, but you don't know.Sincerely,

Jim Mora Sr.

 

[LHUCKS]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

the discussion was more focused on Billick's Baltimore career. But yes, Boller showed signs of life last year.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

the discussion was more focused on Billick's Baltimore career. But yes, Boller showed signs of life last year.

Even dead cats bounce.

 

[AnonymousBob]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

the discussion was more focused on Billick's Baltimore career. But yes, Boller showed signs of life last year.

Even dead cats bounce.

I'll have to test that one out sometime.

 

[Couch Potato]

In before the CalBear rant.

 

[CalBear]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

the discussion was more focused on Billick's Baltimore career. But yes, Boller showed signs of life last year.

Even dead cats bounce.

I'm not going to get back into a Boller argument, but his passing performance over the last half of the season (the only 8 full games he played) annualizes to 3316 yards and 22 TDs, which is plenty of production to have multiple productive receivers on the team. It's only slightly less than Jake Delhomme, who produced the #1 overall receiver, and almost tied with Mark Brunell, who produced #3. Baltimore was #8 in the league in pass attempts in 2005; whether McNair or Boller is at QB in 2006, there will be potential for fantasy production from the receivers.

 

[cws3030]

i'd be curious to see what is wing swan is.

I'd be curious to know what you mean.

I'm guessing he meant wing span.

no i meant swan

You think you know, but you don't know.Sincerely,

Jim Mora Sr.

"PLAYOFFS"

 

[cws3030]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Two words: Kyle Boller

Is Boller really that bad? I thought he finished pretty strong last season. Look at his week 14 and 15 stats.

the discussion was more focused on Billick's Baltimore career. But yes, Boller showed signs of life last year.

Even dead cats bounce.

I'm not going to get back into a Boller argument, but his passing performance over the last half of the season (the only 8 full games he played) annualizes to 3316 yards and 22 TDs, which is plenty of production to have multiple productive receivers on the team. It's only slightly less than Jake Delhomme, who produced the #1 overall receiver, and almost tied with Mark Brunell, who produced #3. Baltimore was #8 in the league in pass attempts in 2005; whether McNair or Boller is at QB in 2006, there will be potential for fantasy production from the receivers.

i'm not sure bollers production over an entire year would equate to 3300/22but i do agree with looking at the ravens pass attempts in 2005 there is potential for good WR production, throw in mcnair and they just might have something

 

[CalBear]

i'm not sure bollers production over an entire year would equate to 3300/22

Boller's split statsGames 9-16, 156/270 (57.8%), 1658 yards, 11 TD 11 INT. Double that and it's 3300/22. The only game missing from that is Game 1 where he was injured early in the third quarter.

There are flaws to using second-half splits, but I think that at least those numbers indicate potential in the Baltimore passing game. It is also worth noting that 270 passing attempts jibes with his second half split for 2004, when Boller had 268 pass attempts. In fact, if you add those two half-seasons together, you get 3100 yards and 21 TDs, so the only glitch in the Baltimore passing game since mid-2004 has been the fact that they started Anthony Wright and Kordell Stewart.

 

[cws3030]

i'm not sure bollers production over an entire year would equate to 3300/22

Boller's split statsGames 9-16, 156/270 (57.8%), 1658 yards, 11 TD 11 INT. Double that and it's 3300/22. The only game missing from that is Game 1 where he was injured early in the third quarter.

There are flaws to using second-half splits, but I think that at least those numbers indicate potential in the Baltimore passing game. It is also worth noting that 270 passing attempts jibes with his second half split for 2004, when Boller had 268 pass attempts. In fact, if you add those two half-seasons together, you get 3100 yards and 21 TDs, so the only glitch in the Baltimore passing game since mid-2004 has been the fact that they started Anthony Wright and Kordell Stewart.

2005 ravens passing stats- 3088yds / 17td / 21int, IMO this seems like the more likely scenario to me.

 

[CalBear]

2005 ravens passing stats- 3088yds / 17td / 21int, IMO this seems like the more likely scenario to me.

Only if they're starting Kordell Stewart and Anthony Wright again.

 

[Ducegonads]

Mason's value should go up with a reunion with McNair.

Todd Heap is also a major factor.

That's the guy I'd be watching out for. Finally has a QB who can get him the ball without getting him killed. WR's to stretch the field. Career year.

 

[cws3030]

2005 ravens passing stats- 3088yds / 17td / 21int, IMO this seems like the more likely scenario to me.

Only if they're starting Kordell Stewart and Anthony Wright again.

with jamal back to 100% and mike anderson... they will get back to the grind it out running gamethey will not throw the ball 562 like they did in 05. my guess it'll be more like 04 which is a shade below 475 att @ a career 6y/a puts him just at 2850 and with 1/1 - td/int i don't see him throwing 20 tds. i think it'll be about 17tds 15int

my boller perdiciton if he happens to be the starter all year (which i truely believe will be mcnair) is:

2975/17/15

 

[Rhino802]

It still AMAZES me that Brian Billick was brought in as an offensive genius, has constantly changed coordinators and has had a ton of talent on the coaching staff, and has never had a very good offense.

Good post, other than IIRC,at the last count he has had two OCs during his reign - Matt Cavanaugh and Jim Fassel. Until he was forced to make changes on the O-side of the coaching staff last year, there was plenty of continuity. All said, it points back to Billick - his system has not worked other than a carousel at QB, there has been continuity until last year. Boller aside, you have to wonder whether it is Ozzie's inability to bring a veteran QB or Billick either not wanting Ozzie's choice or not willing to adjust his system to the QB. My vote certainly goes for the latter.

With a decent QB, the passing game could easily provide a lot of upside.

 

[Buttmonkey]

Clayton has legit #1 ability, whereas Mason always has been a subpar #1 IMHO.

Hucks - you usually know what you're talking about, but this statement is pretty rediculous.

 

[ravnzfan]

my guess it'll be more like 04 which is a shade below 475 att @ a career 6y/a puts him just at 2850 and with 1/1 - td/int i don't see him throwing 20 tds.  i think it'll be about 17tds 15int

my boller perdiciton if he happens to be the starter all year (which i truely believe will be mcnair) is:

2975/17/15

easy chief, in making comparisons to '04 passing statsthe only legit passing option (Heap) got trampled in the Pitt game (game 2) and didn't see the field for over 2 months

"WR1"...and I use that term loosely...Travis Taylor was also out for a month, leaving the pass catching to:

Randy Hymes--no longer here

Clarence Moore--currently WR4 here

Kevin Johnson--WR4 in Det

Devard Darling--MIA (as in Mssing in Action---NOT Miami!)

Daniel Wilcox--TE2 here

Darnell Dinkens--in Clev

in games 2-6, the Ravens thru the ball ~100 times (I believe they avg'd ~17 ATTEMPTS during that period)

once Taylor, then later Heap, returned---the pass attempts went back up around 33/game, over the last 7 or 8 games of the season

while 562 might be a few more than they are comfortable throwing in a season, I think that is closer to what will be attempted than the 475 you elude to

as far as last year...Clayton couldn't get on the field on a regular basis until the 2nd half of the season...CMoore started in his place, and hurt the team signifigantly, as he dropped more passes than I care to remember

JLewis wasn't right all season, both physically and between the ears....I tried to warn you guys about this in "Jamal Lewis--buyer beware" thread ~August 15 last year, as there were nemerous reasons NOT to like the guy....any prediction less than RB10 for him and it was said I was crazy...his 3.4 ypc indicated I wasn't too far off

I see a much better season for him and the others this year...MORE SO if McNair does make it here (looks like decision June 1, on his case)...but let's assume he doesn't

My biggest concern w/Boller is his staying on the field---the only season he's gone the distance is with the bunch of misfits mentioned earlier in this post, only 1 of which would be expected to see any signifigant time this year (Wilcox)

He played reasonably well week 1 vs Manning and Indy, before a bunch of dropped passes, missed FG's (Stover 0-3 that day...perfect the rest of the year!!!)

and dumb penalties set the Ravens on their butts just prior to his getting hurt...

upon his return in mid-season, he showed signs of being decent, but was inconsistent overall

I can't help but expect slight to modest improvement in the numbers over his early results---check the numbers for the Gannons, Grbacs and BJohnsons of the world---none of these guys started with the numbers they finished with

make no mistake...I, like EVERY ravnzfan in this town, awaits the McNair decision... and expect great things if he does play for us...

...I'm just not ready to toss Boller under the bus as a totally lost cause---McNair or no McNair