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Yale Law Students Shout Down Bipartisan Free Speech Talk - And, Oh Yeah, The First Source Was Nearly Exactly Right, According to David Lat and Others (2 Viewers)

It is rather alarming. I usually dismiss these things as being conducted by a small percentage of the student body but this one seems to have widespread support.

 
Juxtatarot said:
It is rather alarming. I usually dismiss these things as being conducted by a small percentage of the student body but this one seems to have widespread support.
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I was just about to post this same thing. Normally I get into disagreements with @rockaction about this sort of thing, because I think he makes too much of it. But not this time. This is a horrible story. 

 
timschochet said:
I was just about to post this same thing. Normally I get into disagreements with @rockaction about this sort of thing, because I think he makes too much of it. But not this time. This is a horrible story. 
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Not this time?  I’ve been railing against those little Yale fascists for years, doing far more destructive things like getting good people fired from their jobs.  But this time, this one gets to you.  I guess better late than never.

 
ekbeats said:
Not this time?  I’ve been railing against those little Yale fascists for years, doing far more destructive things like getting good people fired from their jobs.  But this time, this one gets to you.  I guess better late than never.
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Prior to this incident, I didn’t see a pattern. Now I’m starting to see one, but honestly I hope I’m wrong. 

As you know, I’m a big believer in woke and political correctness. Intolerance as a general rule doesn’t bother me; I think society SHOULD be intolerant of bigotry, racism, sexism, etc. And I honestly don’t mind if a bigot or racist or fascist is not allowed to speak at a college campus. But it bothers me when this intolerance extends to the mainstream, as it has in this situation. I suspect that many conservatives would tell me, “well that’s inevitable when you go down this path.” I don’t believe that: I don’t think ANYTHING is inevitable, and I never believe in slippery slopes. That being said, this is very troublesome and we’ll have to see where it goes from here. 

 
Yale is getting what they deserve for their woke admission policies.   Maybe now is the time to change their slave trader name?.  But will never happen.. why not?

 
timschochet said:
I was just about to post this same thing. Normally I get into disagreements with @rockaction about this sort of thing, because I think he makes too much of it. But not this time. This is a horrible story. 
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It's par for the course there, has been for years, and will spread to other places. While you fritter and frotter away, stuff like this is becoming commonplace. That it happens -- especially where the future leaders and shapers of norms in America are -- is not a surprise to anybody who follows this stuff. It's a wildfire. It will only be exacerbated by curriculum and changes in what is taught and exhorted as morality at the elementary and middle school levels. 

 
timschochet said:
Prior to this incident, I didn’t see a pattern. Now I’m starting to see one, but honestly I hope I’m wrong. 

As you know, I’m a big believer in woke and political correctness. Intolerance as a general rule doesn’t bother me; I think society SHOULD be intolerant of bigotry, racism, sexism, etc. And I honestly don’t mind if a bigot or racist or fascist is not allowed to speak at a college campus. But it bothers me when this intolerance extends to the mainstream, as it has in this situation. I suspect that many conservatives would tell me, “well that’s inevitable when you go down this path.” I don’t believe that: I don’t think ANYTHING is inevitable, and I never believe in slippery slopes. That being said, this is very troublesome and we’ll have to see where it goes from here. 
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Define mainstream in your view. 

 
timschochet said:
I think society SHOULD be intolerant of bigotry, racism, sexism, etc. And I honestly don’t mind if a bigot or racist or fascist is not allowed to speak at a college campus. 
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What you have failed to see over the years is that on Liberal-dominated college campuses it is the far Left that gets to decide who is bigoted, racist and sexist.  And they suck at doing that fairly and reasonably.

The moment you start putting all sorts of restrictions on speech you open up the likelihood for abuse by those with the loudest voices or the most favored political leanings.  Yale students have been doing this stuff for the last 15 years.  They’ve ruined people’s careers for such egregious things as gently asking students to think through the idea of dictating what Halloween costumes should be allowed.  This is the same campus where a hoaxster convinced students to sign a petition to repeal the First Amendment.  I get why you don’t seem to care much about it.  Your speech and your politics aren’t being silenced.  Today…

 
ekbeats said:
What you have failed to see over the years is that on Liberal-dominated college campuses it is the far Left that gets to decide who is bigoted, racist and sexist.  And they suck at doing that fairly and reasonably.

The moment you start putting all sorts of restrictions on speech you open up the likelihood for abuse by those with the loudest voices or the most favored political leanings.  Yale students have been doing this stuff for the last 15 years.  They’ve ruined people’s careers for such egregious things as gently asking students to think through the idea of dictating what Halloween costumes should be allowed.  This is the same campus where a hoaxster convinced students to sign a petition to repeal the First Amendment.  I get why you don’t seem to care much about it.  Your speech and your politics aren’t being silenced.  Today…
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This is all shades of early 20th century Russia.  Same ideology.  Same tactics.

Leftist always think they're safe from their parties politics until it's too late.    Tim's smugness is a prime example of this.

 
BladeRunner said:
This is all shades of early 20th century Russia.  Same ideology.  Same tactics.

Leftist always think they're safe from their parties politics until it's too late.    Tim's smugness is a prime example of this.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with early 20th century Russia (in which, BTW, university students were few and far between.) 

 
BladeRunner said:
The Russians of the early 20 Century also thought it was all nonsense. Until it was too late. 

This is all shades of Communism and Marxism. This is how it starts.
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I’ve asked you before when you’ve offered this analogy: what is your source material? Have you actually read any books about the rise of Communism in Russia? I can certainly recommend some excellent ones. It’s one of my all time favorite subjects and I’ve read at least 20 books on it. 
I assure you: there are no parallels. 

 
Of course they act like arrogant ideological bigots because they are allowed to...they should be suspended for their actions yet it will be nothing to see here because there are two sets of rules on college campuses.

 
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rockaction said:
There are absolutely parallels. That and to the Cultural Revolution, too. That's why the radical leftists that endorse this #### used to hand out Little Red Books on campus. For all your blather about history, you ignore some obvious corollaries. 
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I know that you’re as knowledgeable about this history as I am. And yes there are parallels to aspects of the Cultural Revolution (scary ones). If @BladeRunnerhad made that comparison I wouldn’t have disagreed with him so strongly. If he had made comparisons to Herbert Marcuse and the intolerant New Left of the 60s, I would have applauded him. 
But you know and I know that the comparisons to pre-Leninist Russia are simplistic- and even to Leninist Russia it’s simplistic. Universities in the Soviet Union played little or no role in shaping politics or culture- nothing like Mao’s China or Nazi Germany. So there really is no parallel there. 

 
Let’s go back to my comparison to the New Left. Under Marcuse and later the SDS and even later the Weathermen, college campuses in the 1960s were extremely intolerant. ROTC and corporate spokesmen were not allowed to debate; they were shouted down or roughed up. Many campuses were violently occupied by student protestors. And the most extreme elements were often in the black liberation movements, which demanded not integration but segregation on behalf of a black minority. All this is well documented. 
 

And yet our country didn’t collapse or go socialist. The Revolution not only wasn’t televised, it never happened. The vast majority of these radicals went on to live normal, quiet lives within the framework of American capitalism, much to the dismay of the Jane Fondas, Tom Haydens, and Stokely Carmichaels of the world. 
 

The lesson is this: it’s an awful thing these Yale kids have done. It’s not a calamity, it doesn’t condemn us, they’ll grow out of it. 

 
It is true the universities were much worse in the sixties, but there was a cultural gap between normal life and university life back then. It seems, at least to this observer, that the gap between what the university does and what normal people are doing has closed. It was a commenter here, Hugh Jass, that said he felt like every day in American politics was like being at one of these universities. He said a wittier and funnier thing that what I just paraphrased, but it's true. 

The HR departments and, in politics, the appointed yet unelected executive branch buffoons at agencies like the FDA and CDC, among other "scientific" entities, seem to be right down the hall from Jane Fonda these days, taking notes with each other from the same overarching playbook. 

 
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Not saying the protest was cool but that seems to be what it was.  Good lord these fringe websites over-sensationalize everything.  Did anyone bother to watch the video?

This is what they described as the climax of a "violent revolt".  "As the fracas intensified" was the lead-in for the video.  "Law students whipped into a violent frenzy".

That was the climax.  The article said everyone left after that.  They sang in the halls which apparently "disturbed nearby classrooms", though of course the source on that is the same website the describes the above video as a violent frenzy.

It looks like a bunch of teenagers standing around with some home-made signs and some of them yelled something mean back when they were addressed.  Maybe a stupid reason to protest, but the way it was described in the article seems comically silly and overblown.

 
timschochet said:
The lesson is this: it’s an awful thing these Yale kids have done. It’s not a calamity, it doesn’t condemn us, they’ll grow out of it. 
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Your ability to be 6-8 years behind every curve is really impressive.  These people are already effectively running most of our legacy media organizations and HR departments.  They're doing their level best to take over the Democratic party.  They're not growing out of it.

 
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timschochet said:
Prior to this incident, I didn’t see a pattern. Now I’m starting to see one, but honestly I hope I’m wrong. 

As you know, I’m a big believer in woke and political correctness. Intolerance as a general rule doesn’t bother me; I think society SHOULD be intolerant of bigotry, racism, sexism, etc. And I honestly don’t mind if a bigot or racist or fascist is not allowed to speak at a college campus. But it bothers me when this intolerance extends to the mainstream, as it has in this situation. I suspect that many conservatives would tell me, “well that’s inevitable when you go down this path.” I don’t believe that: I don’t think ANYTHING is inevitable, and I never believe in slippery slopes. That being said, this is very troublesome and we’ll have to see where it goes from here. 
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There has been a pattern for years from these schools - Ivy League, Cal Berkeley, Michigan, and on.  

 
I always like to click on the TOC of websites that people share.  This sites top three categories are, in order - 
 

Biden

Coronavirus 

Democrats

————————

No mention of Republicans at all.  Lol.  I usually don’t dig much further but I might and then I’ll report back.  

ETA: 

I went to their humor section which hasn’t been updated in a few years.  They are obsessed with somebody named SAmantha Bee.  

 
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Easy to spot the libs in that classroom - they all were wearing masks.  I hope they do for 20 more years so they are easily identifiable.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Your ability to be 6-8 years behind every curve is really impressive.  
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There’s a term for this: it’s called conservatism. 

I may not be a conservative in a modern day political sense, but I pretty much am one in terms of reactions to these type of events. You guys want to make assumptions, jump to conclusions. I say slow down, it may not be as bad as you think. Let’s see what happens. 

I think this is a good rule. You guys want to use incidents like these to condemn wokeism and political correctness in general. I’m not ready to do that. There are too many positive aspects to this movement. The negative ones, I believe, can be fixed. 

 
timschochet said:
There’s a term for this: it’s called conservatism. 

I may not be a conservative in a modern day political sense, but I pretty much am one in terms of reactions to these type of events. You guys want to make assumptions, jump to conclusions. I say slow down, it may not be as bad as you think. Let’s see what happens. 
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We did that already.  

"Let's see what happens" was probably a reasonable argument 10 years ago.  But we know now that these same people who shout down speakers on college campuses go on to jobs in the media where they turn legacy media outlets into ideological swamps.  There's a direct pipeline from "colleges becoming outspokenly illiberal" to "media outlets becoming outspokenly illiberal."  People like me were predicting this a decade ago, and we were right.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
We did that already.  

"Let's see what happens" was probably a reasonable argument 10 years ago.  But we know now that these same people who shout down speakers on college campuses go on to jobs in the media where they turn legacy media outlets into ideological swamps.  There's a direct pipeline from "colleges becoming outspokenly illiberal" to "media outlets becoming outspokenly illiberal."  People like me were predicting this a decade ago, and we were right.
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No I don’t think you’re right. And I strongly challenge you on media becoming illiberal. 

 
FairWarning said:
There has been a pattern for years from these schools - Ivy League, Cal Berkeley, Michigan, and on.  
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I have a friend who runs a progressive "Google" like marketing company in metro Detroit.   He had an uprising within the company forcing him to apologize for running the company in such a fascist manner.   It was gross. He has stopped considering  university of michigan grads for employment and he is slowly replacing his workforce.    Nearly 100 employees.

I told him to "hire" Hillsdale.    He is.

 
Now that we've established the precedent that high school yearbooks are fair game for judicial nominees, we should make a note of people who show up at events like this, people who sign open letters protesting peaceful speakers, etc.  That's way more important than arguing about what a devil's triangle is.

 
quick-hands said:
I have a friend who runs a progressive "Google" like marketing company in metro Detroit.   He had an uprising within the company forcing him to apologize for running the company in such a fascist manner.   It was gross. He has stopped considering  university of michigan grads for employment and he is slowly replacing his workforce.    Nearly 100 employees.

I told him to "hire" Hillsdale.    He is.
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We need to stop nominating any more YLS graduates for judicial positions until we can figure out what the hell is going on.  (Joking, but not really).

 
quick-hands said:
I have a friend who runs a progressive "Google" like marketing company in metro Detroit.   He had an uprising within the company forcing him to apologize for running the company in such a fascist manner.   It was gross. He has stopped considering  university of michigan grads for employment and he is slowly replacing his workforce.    Nearly 100 employees.

I told him to "hire" Hillsdale.    He is.
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Hillsdale is a very good school.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Now that we've established the precedent that high school yearbooks are fair game for judicial nominees, we should make a note of people who show up at events like this, people who sign open letters protesting peaceful speakers, etc.  That's way more important than arguing about what a devil's triangle is.
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I can’t wait until someone is eliminated from consideration for playing cowboys and Indians in 2nd grade.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
We did that already.  

"Let's see what happens" was probably a reasonable argument 10 years ago.  But we know now that these same people who shout down speakers on college campuses go on to jobs in the media where they turn legacy media outlets into ideological swamps.  There's a direct pipeline from "colleges becoming outspokenly illiberal" to "media outlets becoming outspokenly illiberal."  People like me were predicting this a decade ago, and we were right.
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My last year in tech I had 5 HR complaints filed against me because I wouldn’t list my pronouns in my Slack profile. The commercial property manager who forms his opinions from MSNBC knows more than we do. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Your ability to be 6-8 years behind every curve is really impressive.  These people are already effectively running most of our legacy media organizations and HR departments.  They're doing their level best to take over the Democratic party.  They're not growing out of it.
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Sometimes I read certain posts and all I can think of is Kevin Bacon in Animal House where he is saying "remain calm, all is well."

 
timschochet said:
Not really. It’s pretty low ranked. It’s good for very conservative students I guess. 
 

Despite the problems noted in this thread, I’d still be pretty proud if my kids got into and attended Yale. 
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Chris Cuomo got into Yale so it can be done if you know people

 
liberal friend of mind had reminded me over and over ..... free speech he'll fight for day and night ... unless that speech isn't speech he agree's with, then he'll fight to take that speech away because to him, its wrong speech and shouldn't be allowed

not so free after all huh? that's what I saw in that article/clips

 
timschochet said:
Not really. It’s pretty low ranked. It’s good for very conservative students I guess. 
 

Despite the problems noted in this thread, I’d still be pretty proud if my kids got into and attended Yale. 
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U of M ranked 23 university 

Hilsdale ranked 46 liberal arts college.

Not bad for a tiny school in rural Michigan  that accepts ZERO govt funding.

I'd be proud if my kids got through Oakland Community College and was gainfully employed.   

 
Summer Wheat said:
Chris Cuomo got into Yale so it can be done if you know people
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Sure there are legacy types. I think Brett Kavanaugh as well right? But it’s not the norm. 
 

And despite their serious character flaws, I don’t think anyone would argue that Cuomo or Kavanaugh aren’t bright people. 

 
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