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Yankee Skipper in 2008? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jaspry
- Start date
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Steinbrenner overplayed his hand here. If he kept his mouth shut, Torre gets the ax and theres at best lukewarm defense of him. But by bullying him, its galvanized a lot of support for Torre, which I think will make his ax-ing an unpopular thing. Steinbrenner is apparently still with it, though not what he was, but I do think to a generation of fans, he's revered and respected, because they don't remember that reign of terror, only his willingness to spend whatever it takes to win. If there were a manager who were money in the bank out there that would really make them compelling favorites to get back to or win a world series, maybe he'd do it. But Pinella has a job, Scocsia has a job, Leyland has a job and LaRussa wouldn't fly here. You want to argue a Dusty Baker or a Don Baylor, if fans have issue with Torre's bullpen management, these guys would be a Dennis Green moment waiting to happen after someone choked one up against the Red Sox.
So that all said, I think he stays. Mattingly's too similar to Joe, and Girardi probably won't command the respect given his recent association with these guys as teammates.
There is one dark horse though, and if you want contrast, and a great game manager with maybe a bit of bite, Bobby V is rotting away in Japan. I think he'd work for free.
This team is a billion dollar machine right now. They built a network, they built a ballpark and they built a brand, and there's really two people I think are most responsible. Joe Torre and Mariano Rivera. Steinbrenner has clearly changed, and now that the team is bigger than ever, do you really want to F with the money by bringing in someone who could mess with the mojo? Keep Joe for 3 years, let him open the stadium, and let him walk at age 70. If he misses the playoffs any one of those years, all bets are off, but its tough to fire a guy off 12 straight trips to the postseason.
So that all said, I think he stays. Mattingly's too similar to Joe, and Girardi probably won't command the respect given his recent association with these guys as teammates.
There is one dark horse though, and if you want contrast, and a great game manager with maybe a bit of bite, Bobby V is rotting away in Japan. I think he'd work for free.
This team is a billion dollar machine right now. They built a network, they built a ballpark and they built a brand, and there's really two people I think are most responsible. Joe Torre and Mariano Rivera. Steinbrenner has clearly changed, and now that the team is bigger than ever, do you really want to F with the money by bringing in someone who could mess with the mojo? Keep Joe for 3 years, let him open the stadium, and let him walk at age 70. If he misses the playoffs any one of those years, all bets are off, but its tough to fire a guy off 12 straight trips to the postseason.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Tony LaRussa
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Tony Soprano
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Joe Torre
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Seriously, why would Joe want to put up with this #### for one more season? He's gone. And, he'll be much happier for it.
Torre was never the best manager. He did some things very well, and he was pretty pedestrian in other areas. But, all told, he was a good manager for this team, built up a great run in the late-90s, and was really disappointing over the last half of his managerial career with this club. They became a plodding, lethargic group when the stakes were at their highest. And, even the infusion of young talent couldn't energize this group enough this year.
But, it's not all Torre's fault, clearly. It was a flawed team to begin with, relying on the likes of Igawa and Pavano to help anchor the rotation. Mussina took a precipitous fall this year. The expectations of Clemens were unrealistic (I'm as at fault for this as anyone). And, the middle relief was an absolute joke (it was as though we already knew the outcome if Farnsworth or Vizcaino entered the game in a tight spot). Great starting pitching was the foundation of Torre's managerial success before, and he really had very few pieces to rely on this year (and in the recent past).
Sad to see Torre go. But, I root for him to land somewhere that he enjoys and let George ruin someone else's day.
Torre was never the best manager. He did some things very well, and he was pretty pedestrian in other areas. But, all told, he was a good manager for this team, built up a great run in the late-90s, and was really disappointing over the last half of his managerial career with this club. They became a plodding, lethargic group when the stakes were at their highest. And, even the infusion of young talent couldn't energize this group enough this year.
But, it's not all Torre's fault, clearly. It was a flawed team to begin with, relying on the likes of Igawa and Pavano to help anchor the rotation. Mussina took a precipitous fall this year. The expectations of Clemens were unrealistic (I'm as at fault for this as anyone). And, the middle relief was an absolute joke (it was as though we already knew the outcome if Farnsworth or Vizcaino entered the game in a tight spot). Great starting pitching was the foundation of Torre's managerial success before, and he really had very few pieces to rely on this year (and in the recent past).
Sad to see Torre go. But, I root for him to land somewhere that he enjoys and let George ruin someone else's day.
Reaper
Footballguy
I disagree..... I think Joe thoroughly enjoyed that season.... It was a crazy season with lots of ups and downs mostly downs for the whole 1st half and the played GOOD BASEBALL for the entire second half.... The team had a nice dynamic and a real good injection of youth.He realizes and understands what happens in the playoffs and that Cleveland was the better team and played better.... I don't think he beats himself up or even is effected by what George says one bit... I think it was obvious that Joe's Mgr position was in question without a win.. Joe lasted a real long time with the Yanks if he is gone....He said last night, he not going to just go somewhere and "Do Nothing".... or retire... He just loves it, when many of us may look at him like he's going through a grinder, he Lives for that and loves it.For me, If Joe's time is up, the only person I'd be happy with is Girardi.
Reaper
Footballguy
Yeah, back in the 80's there was a decent amount of fans who HATED Steinbrenner....I used to sell "Toss The Boss" shirts.
And I still think the latest Yankee dynasty was set up when George was banned.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Oh, absolutely...Not much argument there IMO...
It was Stick Michael who really developed the core of those late 90s championship teams...
Joel Sherman has an excellent book called Birth of the Yankee Dynasty that is the story of the 1996 team...Well worth reading...Really interesting how they developed that team, and how close they were to making several trades that would have been typical mortgaging the future Yankee trades
INDIANSummer
Footballguy
hope torre gets fired...would be a HUGE mistake by the stein and make yanks worse
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
I'm certainly not looking to scapegoat Torre for this loss, or to run him out of town, but I would like to hear why people think he should be brought back
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
He's Italian.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
This is true
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I'm glad you're seeing things my way.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Actually, everything old is new again. If Joe must go, which he shouldn't, and you don't think Mattingly is ready but you want to keep him around, then there is only one name...
Buck Showalter.
It sounds like he innovated the Girardi Iron Fist routine, but has done it rather effectively, stepping off the ride TWICE of two world series teams. Don't tell me Buck wouldn't have won with a full year of Schilling and 57 homers from Gonzo.
I don't know if he would have won in 1996, but he might have in 1995 if he recognized what Mariano could have been.
My issue with change is there has to be contrast. They don't need Mattingly doing the Joe impression, if you are going to change, 180 it. Joe was the 180 to Buck and after a 12 year turnover and Buck can be the 180 to Joe, IF they are bent on change. Mattingly basically retired because Buck left, and he's one of his guys, so the grooming can continue, you have a guy experienced with New York who won't embarass you and maybe has learned from his time. On top of that, a great game manager.
If they are going outside the organization, let it be Buck, not LaRussa.
Buck Showalter.
It sounds like he innovated the Girardi Iron Fist routine, but has done it rather effectively, stepping off the ride TWICE of two world series teams. Don't tell me Buck wouldn't have won with a full year of Schilling and 57 homers from Gonzo.
I don't know if he would have won in 1996, but he might have in 1995 if he recognized what Mariano could have been.
My issue with change is there has to be contrast. They don't need Mattingly doing the Joe impression, if you are going to change, 180 it. Joe was the 180 to Buck and after a 12 year turnover and Buck can be the 180 to Joe, IF they are bent on change. Mattingly basically retired because Buck left, and he's one of his guys, so the grooming can continue, you have a guy experienced with New York who won't embarass you and maybe has learned from his time. On top of that, a great game manager.
If they are going outside the organization, let it be Buck, not LaRussa.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
A few months ago, One of the mags ran a story about V being really happy in Japan . It might have just been lip service but who knows......
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
A few months ago, One of the mags ran a story about V being really happy in Japan . It might have just been lip service but who knows......
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Stein: What about Connie Mack?
Cashman: He's been dead for over 50 years sir.
Stein: BLAST HIS HIDE TO HADES!!! Very well, begin the thawing of Billy Martin!!!!!
Cashman: He's been dead for over 50 years sir.
Stein: BLAST HIS HIDE TO HADES!!! Very well, begin the thawing of Billy Martin!!!!!
Doxology
Footballguy
Even he is afraid of Steinbrenner.
Archie Bunker
Footballguy
My preference:
1. Torre.
2. Willie Randolph. I'm guessing right about now he stuck it out a couple of more years with the Yankees. With all the BS Minaya & Bernazard are pulling, not being able to pick his coaches, etc. There's no way the Mets let him go, simply to keep him away from the Yankees.
3. Girardi.
4. Showalter. He started the run of players actually wanting to play in NY. didn't get a chance to see it through.
5. Mattingly. He was my absolute favorite player growing up in the 80s. I just don't see him having the right personality to be a manager. He seems more suited to be a coach.
I would hate to see LaRussa in pinstripes.
1. Torre.
2. Willie Randolph. I'm guessing right about now he stuck it out a couple of more years with the Yankees. With all the BS Minaya & Bernazard are pulling, not being able to pick his coaches, etc. There's no way the Mets let him go, simply to keep him away from the Yankees.
3. Girardi.
4. Showalter. He started the run of players actually wanting to play in NY. didn't get a chance to see it through.
5. Mattingly. He was my absolute favorite player growing up in the 80s. I just don't see him having the right personality to be a manager. He seems more suited to be a coach.
I would hate to see LaRussa in pinstripes.
