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Yet another company moves out of California to Texas: Toyota (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
April 27, 2014, 6:40 p.m.
Toyota Motor Corp. plans to move large numbers of jobs from its sales and marketing headquarters in Torrance to suburban Dallas, according to a person familiar with the automaker's plans.

The move, creating a new North American headquarters, would put management of Toyota's U.S. business close to where it builds most cars for this market.

North American Chief Executive Jim Lentz is expected to brief employees Monday, said the person, who was not authorized to speak publicly. Toyota declined to detail its plans. About 5,300 people work at Toyota's Torrance complex. It is unclear how many workers will be asked to move to Texas. The move is expected to take several years.

Toyota has long been a Southern California fixture. Its first U.S. office opened in a closed Rambler dealership in Hollywood in 1957. The site is now a Toyota dealership. In 1958, its first year of sales, Toyota sold just 288 vehicles — 287 Toyopet Crown sedans and one Land Cruiser. Last year, Toyota sold more than 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S.

The U.S. branch picked Los Angeles for its first headquarters because of proximity to the port complex — where it imported cars — and easy airline access to Tokyo. As Toyota grew, it opened its national sales and marketing headquarters in Torrance in 1982. The complex, built where its parts distribution warehouse was once located, now has 2 million square feet of office space.

But today, about 75% of the Toyota branded vehicles sold in the U.S. are built in America — many of them at plants in Texas, Mississippi and Kentucky.

The automaker won't be the first big company Texas has poached from California.

Occidental Petroleum Corp. said in February that it was relocating from Los Angeles to Houston, making it one of around 60 companies that have moved to Texas since July 2012, according to Texas Gov. Rick Perry.

Perry last month visited California to recruit companies. The group Americans for Economic Freedom also recently launched a $300,000 advertising campaign in which Perry contends 50 California companies have plans to expand or relocate in Texas because it offers a better business climate.

Like these other companies, Toyota could also save money in an environment of lower business taxes, real estate prices and cost of living.

Frank Scotto, Torrance's mayor, said he had no warning of Toyota's decision. He said he did know that the automaker planned a corporate announcement for Monday.

"When any major corporation is courted by another state, it's very difficult to combat that," Scotto said. "We don't have the tools we need to keep major corporations here."

The mayor said businesses bear higher costs in California for workers' compensation and liability insurance, among other expenses.

"A company can easily see where it would benefit by relocating someplace else," Scotto said.

Both New York and Texas have aggressively pursued major California corporations by promising a number of financial incentives to get them to relocate, he said.

Toyota's move to Texas comes in the wake of its crisis with sudden-acceleration incidents. Some accidents were linked to floor mats jamming the gas pedal, causing the car to accelerate out of control. Those problems started Toyota on the path to reorganization.

Toyota was slow to disclose and address the problems, but it eventually recalled millions of vehicles to fix the floor mat issue, along with another mechanical defect that caused sticking gas pedals. This year, Toyota paid a $1.2-billion federal fine for misleading consumers, regulators and Congress about the safety problems.

A special panel convened by the automaker concluded that Toyota's management responded slowly and ineffectually to the growing sudden-acceleration crisis because it was hampered by a top-down management style that gave short shrift to customer complaints. The panel also noted that Toyota had developed an adversarial relationship with federal safety regulators.

The automaker has worked to reorganize its management structure to address those problems and give more autonomy to its regional operations. Toyota named Lentz, a longtime U.S. sales executive, chief executive of its North American operations, in charge of manufacturing, research and development, sales and marketing.

Lentz is now overseeing the establishment of a new North American headquarters, close to its U.S. manufacturing hubs.

The company is well established in the South. Its primary factories are in Kentucky, where it builds the Camry and Avalon; Mississippi, where it builds the Corolla; and Texas, where it builds Tundra and Tacoma pickup trucks. It also has a big engine plant in Alabama. Toyota next year will launch assembly of its first U.S.-built Lexus, the automaker's luxury brand, in Kentucky.Moving the U.S. corporate headquarters to Texas puts senior management closer to those factories.

Toyota isn't the first automaker to leave Southern California. In late 2005, Nissan announced it was moving its North American headquarters from Gardena to Franklin, Tenn., just outside of Nashville. About 550 employees left for Tennessee; an additional 750 left jobs at Nissan to stay in Southern California.

"The costs of doing business in Southern California are much higher than the costs of doing business in Tennessee," Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn said at the time. He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

Fritz Hitchcock, who owns several Toyota dealerships in Southern California, said Toyota's decision won't affect local car sales. But he said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.

 
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There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time.
This is pretty much bull####. Nobody is making California have restrictive land-use regulations.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
I don't think the problem of having your cake and eating it too is limited to California.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
That's not true either. Can't we look at these situations on an individual basis? In this case, there might be too much wastewater discharges, and we need more regulation. In that case, there might be too much red tape for no good purpose, and we need less regulation. Why does it always have to be "either-or", either you're for the environment or you're for business? Must they always be enemies?

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Academically speaking, business is like trout.

Think of what ways you could attract business and keep it as a state.

Low taxes is a very good start.

As for property values - they weren't in Malibu yaknow.

 
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He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
I get you on the school systems, though I'm not sure what Dallas suburb Toyota's corporate offices will be located in. As for wastewater discharges, pesticide use and endangered species protections, federal law still applies here the same as any state in the union, so it's not like there's no regulation at all. And none of that is likely to impact corporate headquarter relocations in any material way.

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
I didn't see it. I did type in "Toyota" before I started this thread.

In any event, I think it's a topic worthy of its own thread.
You don't...say.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Academically speaking, business is like trout.

Think of what ways you could attract business and keep it as a state.

Low taxes is a very good start.
Please read the rest of the sentence. I don't think there is much we can do about cheaper real estate- despite what Slapdash claims. Basically when you have a large population and everyone wants to live by the water, and there's no place to build, that means higher prices. We'll never be able to compete with real estate prices with Texas, where there's empty land everywhere you look. We need to compete in other ways...

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Academically speaking, business is like trout.

Think of what ways you could attract business and keep it as a state.

Low taxes is a very good start.
Please read the rest of the sentence. I don't think there is much we can do about cheaper real estate- despite what Slapdash claims. Basically when you have a large population and everyone wants to live by the water, and there's no place to build, that means higher prices. We'll never be able to compete with real estate prices with Texas, where there's empty land everywhere you look. We need to compete in other ways...
That has nothing to do with it.

The U.S. branch picked Los Angeles for its first headquarters because of proximity to the port complex — where it imported cars — and easy airline access to Tokyo. As Toyota grew, it opened its national sales and marketing headquarters in Torrance in 1982. The complex, built where its parts distribution warehouse was once located, now has 2 million square feet of office space.

But today, about 75% of the Toyota branded vehicles sold in the U.S. are built in America — many of them at plants in Texas, Mississippi and Kentucky.
California has a manufacturing problem.

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
This would also apply:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634725&page=6
How about this? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=674389

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
I didn't see it. I did type in "Toyota" before I started this thread.

In any event, I think it's a topic worthy of its own thread.
You don't...say.
Yeah, I thought about that one too. :shrug: Good news is now we have 3 discussion on the same topic. :thumbup:

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
That's not true either. Can't we look at these situations on an individual basis? In this case, there might be too much wastewater discharges, and we need more regulation. In that case, there might be too much red tape for no good purpose, and we need less regulation. Why does it always have to be "either-or", either you're for the environment or you're for business? Must they always be enemies?
When nature starts dumping benzene into businesses maybe then you can make that argument.

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
This would also apply:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634725&page=6
Meant to quote this earlier. Sry.

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
This would also apply:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634725&page=6
How about this? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=674389
Make it four.

 
I understand it's a sport here to pick on Tim. But you know those really long threads that a relative few people are posting in aren't always the best place to put something if you want to get some discussion going. So the whole we have a 100 pages thread and covered this on page 80 isn't much of an argument for not making another thread.

 
Weird. I thought about starting a thread on this and decided we already had a good discussion going on the same topic so no need to start a new thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=685633&p=16762530

Is there a race to start the most threads or something that I don't know about?
This would also apply:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634725&page=6
How about this? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=674389
Yeah that's a good point:

The California balanced budget thread got me thinking. Between California and Texas, which state would be in a better position to secede and operate independently as a nation?
I can tell you Texas people always feel that they have some kind of constitutional right to secede, but given Cali's fiscal state TX is probably more than ready to succeed on its own as well.

 
I understand it's a sport here to pick on Tim. But you know those really long threads that a relative few people are posting in aren't always the best place to put something if you want to get some discussion going. So the whole we have a 100 pages thread and covered this on page 80 isn't much of an argument for not making another thread.
What about a 9 page thread where we are covering it on page 9 at the bottom? Does that work?

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
Schools are fine in the Dallas suburbs. And please send links on the rest of your allegations. Sounds like a good move for Toyoya employees :thumbsup:

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
Schools are fine in the Dallas suburbs. And please send links on the rest of your allegations. Sounds like a good move for Toyoya employees :thumbsup:
Texas also spends a ton on its colleges/universities.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Academically speaking, business is like trout.

Think of what ways you could attract business and keep it as a state.

Low taxes is a very good start.
Please read the rest of the sentence. I don't think there is much we can do about cheaper real estate- despite what Slapdash claims. Basically when you have a large population and everyone wants to live by the water, and there's no place to build, that means higher prices. We'll never be able to compete with real estate prices with Texas, where there's empty land everywhere you look. We need to compete in other ways...
:lmao:

Sure, let's just stick our head in the sand and ignore the impacts of restrictive zoning laws, rent control, and this Prop 13. I'm sure Texas and other states don't have land near the water where people want to live.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
Schools are fine in the Dallas suburbs. And please send links on the rest of your allegations. Sounds like a good move for Toyoya employees :thumbsup:
I am not supplying links for things that have been going on for over a decade. And yes Dallas has some nice schools. Some score very well nationally but I was talking the entire state.

 
You think my position on this issue, or any issue that I raise or choose to discuss, is wrong, and that I'm full of ####? Great, let's discuss it, let's debate it, if your points are intelligent I will respond to you, and you might even change my mind.

You think I start too many threads, post too much, or that I started a thread when something was already being discussed elsewhere?

:yawn:

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
That's not true either. Can't we look at these situations on an individual basis? In this case, there might be too much wastewater discharges, and we need more regulation. In that case, there might be too much red tape for no good purpose, and we need less regulation. Why does it always have to be "either-or", either you're for the environment or you're for business? Must they always be enemies?
When nature starts dumping benzene into businesses maybe then you can make that argument.
Doesn't the EPA regulate benzene disposal (I honestly don't know)? I do know that OSHA regulates occupational benzene exposure.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
What do you mean when you say "everything is completely deregulated"?
A bit hyperbolic on my part. But there has been serious deregulation of wastewater discharges, pesticide use, protection of species, etc. I could go on but no one wants to hear it really and Tim is for those things so I know that won't sway him. The school system is 46th out of 50.
That's not true either. Can't we look at these situations on an individual basis? In this case, there might be too much wastewater discharges, and we need more regulation. In that case, there might be too much red tape for no good purpose, and we need less regulation. Why does it always have to be "either-or", either you're for the environment or you're for business? Must they always be enemies?
When nature starts dumping benzene into businesses maybe then you can make that argument.
Doesn't the EPA regulate benzene disposal (I honestly don't know)? I do know that OSHA regulates occupational benzene exposure.
I just pulled a random pollutant that is common in dry cleaning out. Tim seems to have forgotten how much dismay he was feeling about dry cleaners having their waste disposal regulated. IIRC he also wasn't big on regulation of paint/body shop emissions.

 
California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas.
:lol: wow.

Some parts of California are gorgeous (mostly on the coast).

Most of california (inland) are a ####### wasteland hell hole.

Texas is awesome. Way better people, way more affordable, and no income tax.... :thumbup: for texas

 
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I understand it's a sport here to pick on Tim. But you know those really long threads that a relative few people are posting in aren't always the best place to put something if you want to get some discussion going. So the whole we have a 100 pages thread and covered this on page 80 isn't much of an argument for not making another thread.
What about a 9 page thread where we are covering it on page 9 at the bottom? Does that work?
Maybe we should start one long thread, and one only, that way no one will be put upon by there being two threads that cover the same thing in the FFA.

 
You think my position on this issue, or any issue that I raise or choose to discuss, is wrong, and that I'm full of ####? Great, let's discuss it, let's debate it, if your points are intelligent I will respond to you, and you might even change my mind.

You think I start too many threads, post too much, or that I started a thread when something was already being discussed elsewhere?

:yawn:
"I'm going to keep being an annoying ####### and I don't care"

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
Ever been to Barstow?

Ever been to Austin or Hill Country?

From Cal State Bakersfield, from 2011:

http://www.csub.edu/kej/documents/happening/2011-03-21_population.pdf

Cal is losing people and jobs and businesses to a lot of states.

 
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He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
Ever been to Barstow?

From Cal State Bakersfield, from 2011:

http://www.csub.edu/kej/documents/happening/2011-03-21_population.pdf

Cal is losing people and jobs and businesses to a lot of states.
In a way it's really for the best. They are way over populated and way over farmed. The state was always fairly arid and now it's just too much for the watershed.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
Ever been to Barstow?

From Cal State Bakersfield, from 2011:

http://www.csub.edu/kej/documents/happening/2011-03-21_population.pdf

Cal is losing people and jobs and businesses to a lot of states.
In a way it's really for the best. They are way over populated and way over farmed. The state was always fairly arid and now it's just too much for the watershed.
That's true, there are environmental issues beyond all the manufacturing and regulation questions. The Imperial valley sounds like a disaster these days.

 
Great now all those liberal toyota workers will be coming to Dallas and making it another hippy Austin. ####### liberals.

 
He cited cheaper real estate and lower business taxes as key reasons for the move.

He said it represents an "indictment of California's business climate."

It certainly is.

There isn't much we can do about the cheaper real estate- expensive real estate is what happens when you live close to the ocean, and it's sunny nearly all the time. But lower business taxes, not to mention all of the damn red tape and restrictions in California- these are things we can do something about, and have chosen not to. Now we're going to leave several thousand more jobs to Texas.
Yeah you want to be the state where everything is completely deregulated, factories blow up and they have the one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom ain't a great place to live.
NC I get what you're saying, but there has got to be a middle ground. There has to be a way where we can get money for the school system, and protect the environment, but not have too much red tape and not let businesses leave because taxes are too high. California is a paradise, and nobody in their right mind should want to move to Texas. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
Ever been to Barstow?

From Cal State Bakersfield, from 2011:

http://www.csub.edu/kej/documents/happening/2011-03-21_population.pdf

Cal is losing people and jobs and businesses to a lot of states.
In a way it's really for the best. They are way over populated and way over farmed. The state was always fairly arid and now it's just too much for the watershed.
That's true, there are environmental issues beyond all the manufacturing and regulation questions. The Imperial valley sounds like a disaster these days.
Even the cows are moving to Texas due to the drought.

 
This topic reminded me of an interactive graphic I came across last year, showing interstate migration patterns for 2012.

In that year about 63,000 people moved from California to Texas and about 43,000 people moved from Texas to California. Overall Texas had a pretty high net gain of 105,000 people from other states, while California is losing population.

I left California for Colorado around 9 years ago because anywhere you'd want to live in California is just cost prohibitive.

 
NCCommish said:
Joe T said:
NCCommish said:
I understand it's a sport here to pick on Tim. But you know those really long threads that a relative few people are posting in aren't always the best place to put something if you want to get some discussion going. So the whole we have a 100 pages thread and covered this on page 80 isn't much of an argument for not making another thread.
What about a 9 page thread where we are covering it on page 9 at the bottom? Does that work?
Maybe we should start one long thread, and one only, that way no one will be put upon by there being two threads that cover the same thing in the FFA.
Seems a tad extreme.

 

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