SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
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Yet another reason to dislike the Bidwills... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SuperJohn96
- Start date
Here's the Wiki that tells a little more detail about the controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottsville_Maroons
1925 NFL Championship controversy
There is considerable controversy over whether the Maroons should have been awarded the 1925 NFL Championship instead of the Chicago Cardinals.
Under the league rules during that time, the NFL title was automatically given to the team with the best record at the end of the season instead of having the winner be determined by a playoff tournament. Also there was an open-ended schedule during that season; although the final listed league games ended on December 6, teams could still schedule contests against each other through December 20 so they could make more money.[1]
On December 6, Pottsville defeated Chicago, 21-7, to establish the best record in the league and seemed to all but officially clinch the NFL championship.[2] However, two things happened: First, the Cardinals hastily scheduled games against two weak teams which had disbanded for the year.[1] Secondly, NFL President Joseph Carr suspended the Maroons for playing a team of University of Notre Dame All-Stars in Philadelphia (and winning 9-7) on the same day the Frankford Yellow Jackets were scheduled to play a game in Philadelphia, violating Frankford's franchise rights.[1] Although Carr warned the Maroons in writing that they faced suspension if they played the Notre Dame All-Stars in Philadelphia, the Maroons claim that the league office verbally approved the game during a telephone call.[2]
Prior to the controversy, a non-league exhibition game was scheduled in which the Notre Dame All-Stars would face the best NFL team in the east.[1] The Maroons became the top NFL eastern team, and therefore became contractually and legally obligated to play the Notre Dame exhibition game, after they dismantled the Yellow Jackets, 49-0, on November 29. Frankford, who were Pottsville's bitter rivals even before both teams had joined the NFL, then quickly scheduled a game for the same day against the Cleveland Bulldogs, and subsequently protested the Maroons-Notre Dame game to the league. By those two actions, the Yellow Jackets appeared to be playing the role of spoilsport since it was they who had helped arrange the exhibition game with Notre Dame, fully expecting they would play host.[1]
Chicago was declared the 1925 champions by default as the result of Pottsville's suspension.[1] This decision was controversial. First, the Maroons' final league game, the 21-7 victory over the same Cardinals on December 6, was a dominant win. Secondly, Chicago, after losing to Pottsville, played two hastily-arranged games against clubs which had disbanded for the year: the Milwaukee Badgers and the Hammond Pros.[1] The Badgers were forced to field four high school students in the season finale, which was in violation of NFL rules, while the Pros had not played a game in 6 weeks.[1] The NFL heavily sanctioned both Chicago and Milwaukee following their game, going so far as to force the Badgers owner to sell the team. Carr said they would consider the game for removal from the standings, however this never happened.[1]
Although the NFL attempted to officially award the 1925 NFL championship to the Cardinals, they refused the title at first.[2] However, they would later have no objection about claiming the 1925 championship. [1] Eventually, because of Cardinals coach Chris O'Brien's good sportsmanship in refusing to take a title over a team which had beaten them fairly, the 1925 championship was never officially awarded to anyone.[2]
The Maroons' self-made trophy (carved out of anthracite coal) now in the Football Hall of Fame.
For several decades, various fans and sportswriters continued to lobby the league to reverse the decision. Though it is sometimes stated that the largest obstacle facing the Pottsville supporters is that the NFL would have to strike two of the Cardinals' wins for the Maroons to have the best record in 1925, this is not so. Even if Carr disqualified only the Badgers-Cardinals game, while it would not be enough to give the Maroons sole possession of the best record in 1925 (because tie games were not officially counted in the standings under the rules during that time), the Maroons had beaten the Cardinals heads-up and would be ahead in the standings based on their win. Furthermore, fans of football who want to see the current situation changed generally only ask that Pottsville be given a share of the championship, accepting the reality that the NFL is unlikely to completely strip a team of a championship it has had for over 80 years.
It is sometimes stated that Pottsville played a fairly easy schedule prior to their suspension, often facing teams that were less than full strength from playing the day before in Frankford, making Pottsville's case less sympathetic.[1] However, the Maroons final three games were against the Green Bay Packers, who finished the year at 8-5-1, the Yellow Jackets, who had beaten them earlier in the year and finished 13-8, and the Cardinals [1]. Furthermore, Pottsville beat both Chicago and the Notre Dame All-Stars (at a time when many considered college football superior to the emerging NFL), proving they were definitely a premier team.
By 1963, the NFL appointed a special commission to examine the case, but voted 12-2 in favor of continuing to recognize the Cardinals as champions. The lone supporters were Art Rooney and George Halas, the then-owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Chicago Bears, respectively.[1]
In 2003, the issue was brought up again during the league's October owners meeting. However, the NFL voted 30-2 not to reopen the case, with the lone supporters being the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Philadelphia Eagles, the league's two Pennsylvania teams.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottsville_Maroons
1925 NFL Championship controversy
There is considerable controversy over whether the Maroons should have been awarded the 1925 NFL Championship instead of the Chicago Cardinals.
Under the league rules during that time, the NFL title was automatically given to the team with the best record at the end of the season instead of having the winner be determined by a playoff tournament. Also there was an open-ended schedule during that season; although the final listed league games ended on December 6, teams could still schedule contests against each other through December 20 so they could make more money.[1]
On December 6, Pottsville defeated Chicago, 21-7, to establish the best record in the league and seemed to all but officially clinch the NFL championship.[2] However, two things happened: First, the Cardinals hastily scheduled games against two weak teams which had disbanded for the year.[1] Secondly, NFL President Joseph Carr suspended the Maroons for playing a team of University of Notre Dame All-Stars in Philadelphia (and winning 9-7) on the same day the Frankford Yellow Jackets were scheduled to play a game in Philadelphia, violating Frankford's franchise rights.[1] Although Carr warned the Maroons in writing that they faced suspension if they played the Notre Dame All-Stars in Philadelphia, the Maroons claim that the league office verbally approved the game during a telephone call.[2]
Prior to the controversy, a non-league exhibition game was scheduled in which the Notre Dame All-Stars would face the best NFL team in the east.[1] The Maroons became the top NFL eastern team, and therefore became contractually and legally obligated to play the Notre Dame exhibition game, after they dismantled the Yellow Jackets, 49-0, on November 29. Frankford, who were Pottsville's bitter rivals even before both teams had joined the NFL, then quickly scheduled a game for the same day against the Cleveland Bulldogs, and subsequently protested the Maroons-Notre Dame game to the league. By those two actions, the Yellow Jackets appeared to be playing the role of spoilsport since it was they who had helped arrange the exhibition game with Notre Dame, fully expecting they would play host.[1]
Chicago was declared the 1925 champions by default as the result of Pottsville's suspension.[1] This decision was controversial. First, the Maroons' final league game, the 21-7 victory over the same Cardinals on December 6, was a dominant win. Secondly, Chicago, after losing to Pottsville, played two hastily-arranged games against clubs which had disbanded for the year: the Milwaukee Badgers and the Hammond Pros.[1] The Badgers were forced to field four high school students in the season finale, which was in violation of NFL rules, while the Pros had not played a game in 6 weeks.[1] The NFL heavily sanctioned both Chicago and Milwaukee following their game, going so far as to force the Badgers owner to sell the team. Carr said they would consider the game for removal from the standings, however this never happened.[1]
Although the NFL attempted to officially award the 1925 NFL championship to the Cardinals, they refused the title at first.[2] However, they would later have no objection about claiming the 1925 championship. [1] Eventually, because of Cardinals coach Chris O'Brien's good sportsmanship in refusing to take a title over a team which had beaten them fairly, the 1925 championship was never officially awarded to anyone.[2]
The Maroons' self-made trophy (carved out of anthracite coal) now in the Football Hall of Fame.
For several decades, various fans and sportswriters continued to lobby the league to reverse the decision. Though it is sometimes stated that the largest obstacle facing the Pottsville supporters is that the NFL would have to strike two of the Cardinals' wins for the Maroons to have the best record in 1925, this is not so. Even if Carr disqualified only the Badgers-Cardinals game, while it would not be enough to give the Maroons sole possession of the best record in 1925 (because tie games were not officially counted in the standings under the rules during that time), the Maroons had beaten the Cardinals heads-up and would be ahead in the standings based on their win. Furthermore, fans of football who want to see the current situation changed generally only ask that Pottsville be given a share of the championship, accepting the reality that the NFL is unlikely to completely strip a team of a championship it has had for over 80 years.
It is sometimes stated that Pottsville played a fairly easy schedule prior to their suspension, often facing teams that were less than full strength from playing the day before in Frankford, making Pottsville's case less sympathetic.[1] However, the Maroons final three games were against the Green Bay Packers, who finished the year at 8-5-1, the Yellow Jackets, who had beaten them earlier in the year and finished 13-8, and the Cardinals [1]. Furthermore, Pottsville beat both Chicago and the Notre Dame All-Stars (at a time when many considered college football superior to the emerging NFL), proving they were definitely a premier team.
By 1963, the NFL appointed a special commission to examine the case, but voted 12-2 in favor of continuing to recognize the Cardinals as champions. The lone supporters were Art Rooney and George Halas, the then-owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Chicago Bears, respectively.[1]
In 2003, the issue was brought up again during the league's October owners meeting. However, the NFL voted 30-2 not to reopen the case, with the lone supporters being the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Philadelphia Eagles, the league's two Pennsylvania teams.[3]
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
So the Steelers not only kept the Cardinals from winning the Super Bowl this year, but for years have appeared to have been in favour of stripping them of their 80+ year old title too...LOL
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Heh, now don't make me sympathetic to the Cardinals cause in this matter by bringing this up
-QG
Day Drinker
Footballguy
I have to admit that I came into this thread expecting to read some timely disgrace by the Bidwill's towards Todd Haley, or Boldin, or another top player that needs to get paid this offseason, but thankfully it is just an 84 year old story. I'm not saying it isn't interesting, I'm just glad it is "old" news and not something relevant to this coming season.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Way too much time has passed to determine who the real champions were. Definitely an interesting story though.
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Pottsville's not very close to Pittsburgh; I wonder why the Rooneys cared about this and not the Eagles. A couple other thoughts:
1) Chicago played two more games after the Pottsville game, and ended the season with a better record than Pottsville. It looks like those last two games are kind of shady, but unless the NFL struck those games, Chicago deserved the championship on the basis of the better record, even without the forfeit (because that Pottsville-Chicago game was not a championship game, and the NFL champ was crowned on the basis of overall record). That said, they didn't *really* deserve it because they didn't *really* have a better record, although the NFL would have said they had a better record. That's because tie games were not counted in the standings, even though they should have. I think I just talked myself into saying Pottsville deserves the title.
2) If we're going to talk about flawed championships, awarding the 1932 title to Chicago (7-1-6) over Green Bay (10-3-1) must be mentioned.
1) Chicago played two more games after the Pottsville game, and ended the season with a better record than Pottsville. It looks like those last two games are kind of shady, but unless the NFL struck those games, Chicago deserved the championship on the basis of the better record, even without the forfeit (because that Pottsville-Chicago game was not a championship game, and the NFL champ was crowned on the basis of overall record). That said, they didn't *really* deserve it because they didn't *really* have a better record, although the NFL would have said they had a better record. That's because tie games were not counted in the standings, even though they should have. I think I just talked myself into saying Pottsville deserves the title.
2) If we're going to talk about flawed championships, awarding the 1932 title to Chicago (7-1-6) over Green Bay (10-3-1) must be mentioned.
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Sorry to say, but I think if the Cards had won the last SB the team might have been willing to "give away" that 1925 title the next time it was brought up. It just wouldn't be as important if they had a Lombardi trophy. The Rooneys think Pottsville deserves the title but might have prevented them from getting it.
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