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4th&26

Footballguy
A discussion I had a few days ago.

I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:

CPepp > Brooks

Fins Off. > Raiders Off.

Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOS

Moss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!

I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.

CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.

Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!

Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!

 
A discussion I had a few days ago.I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:CPepp > BrooksFins Off. > Raiders Off.Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOSMoss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!Not really..........actually I heard it first at FFT.........where you most likely posted it also. ;) Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!
 
First of all, you're really not going out on a limb here. They are ranked within 1 to 2 WR spots of one another according to current ADP.

Second of all, it sounds like you are placing way too much of your prediction on their respective surrounding talent. While this is an important and valid factor, it's not the only one.

Third, Moss is WAY more talented than Chris Chambers and therefore has much more upside.

I could see where someone could say that Chambers has a higher floor but Moss' ceiling is much higher and, according to ADP, most people agree that Randy's upside more than makes up for his riskiness.

 
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If Randy Moss is healthy, and I haven't seen anything to indicate he isn't, he's the most dominant wide receiver in the history of the NFL. Brooks may drag Randy's value down slightly, but Randy will drag Brooks kicking and screaming up to a respectable level. All you have to do really is chuck the ball reasonably close to Moss and he's going to haul it in.

 
I don't think that's far-fetched at all.

1100/11 > 900/8.

I see no reason to believe that Moss will do any better than last year, and think he'll actually do worse.

That said, to expect Chambers to improve any on his numbers is not realistic. He was one of the most targeted receivers last year with a habitual sub-50% reception average.

Both Moss and Porter will be on the bench by the time the Raiders are eliminated from playoff contention, and both will be gone after this season.

To expect Moss to have some amazing ceiling because he has a slightly more mobile QB to get him the ball is to not look at the situation properly.

The problem with Moss is that he's going to have problems with his coach, not his route-running or QB. Brooks will be fine, but Moss can't catch touchdowns from home any better than you or me.

 
If Randy Moss is healthy, and I haven't seen anything to indicate he isn't, he's the most dominant wide receiver in the history of the NFL. Brooks may drag Randy's value down slightly, but Randy will drag Brooks kicking and screaming up to a respectable level. All you have to do really is chuck the ball reasonably close to Moss and he's going to haul it in.
:yes: They don't call him "the freak" for nothing.That said, I think the situation they are in is a factor. I agree that Chambers will probably out perform Moss throughout the season as Moss might be very inconsistant.

 
If Randy Moss is healthy, and I haven't seen anything to indicate he isn't, he's the most dominant wide receiver in the history of the NFL. Brooks may drag Randy's value down slightly, but Randy will drag Brooks kicking and screaming up to a respectable level. All you have to do really is chuck the ball reasonably close to Moss and he's going to haul it in.
Um, no, but he's right up there.Don't forget that Brooks has helped Joe Horn be a top 10 WR. His ability to throw isn't a problem.Miami will win more games than Oakland, but Moss will have the better stats.
 
If Randy Moss is healthy, and I haven't seen anything to indicate he isn't, he's the most dominant wide receiver in the history of the NFL. Brooks may drag Randy's value down slightly, but Randy will drag Brooks kicking and screaming up to a respectable level. All you have to do really is chuck the ball reasonably close to Moss and he's going to haul it in.
Um, no, but he's right up there.Don't forget that Brooks has helped Joe Horn be a top 10 WR. His ability to throw isn't a problem.

Miami will win more games than Oakland, but Moss will have the better stats.
What the hell does that have anything to do with anything?Miami's 6-10 versus Oakland's 5-11. What's your point?

If you're inferring garbage time, that's silly.

Moss is going to be released after this year... they aren't going to try and showcase him. They will want to look at the other receivers they have. He's going to lay eggs in the fantasy playoffs... and I don't see how that's going to help him or whomever drafts him expecting top-10 production.

Of course Moss is the most talented WR in football. But talent is only one part of success...

 
If Randy Moss is healthy, and I haven't seen anything to indicate he isn't, he's the most dominant wide receiver in the history of the NFL. Brooks may drag Randy's value down slightly, but Randy will drag Brooks kicking and screaming up to a respectable level. All you have to do really is chuck the ball reasonably close to Moss and he's going to haul it in.
Um, no, but he's right up there.Don't forget that Brooks has helped Joe Horn be a top 10 WR. His ability to throw isn't a problem.

Miami will win more games than Oakland, but Moss will have the better stats.
What the hell does that have anything to do with anything?Miami's 6-10 versus Oakland's 5-11. What's your point?

If you're inferring garbage time, that's silly.

Moss is going to be released after this year... they aren't going to try and showcase him. They will want to look at the other receivers they have. He's going to lay eggs in the fantasy playoffs... and I don't see how that's going to help him or whomever drafts him expecting top-10 production.

Of course Moss is the most talented WR in football. But talent is only one part of success...
Gee, and here I thought winning meant something in the NFL. My point is simple, Brooks will put up stats with Moss, but will lose games. Take a look at the schedules, and you tell me that Moss's isn't more favorable to stats. Assuming of course, that he plays all year.

don't worry about showcasing anyone, but WTF would Al Davis release Moss?

You really don't see top 10 stats from Moss? Please tell us what week you see the injury.

 
Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!
And yet an injury-plagued Moss scored more touchdowns in that span than Chambers (21-18).
And yet now Chambers has the QB that threw all of those touchdowns to Moss in that span. Do you really want to compare Jay Fiedler and Sage Rosenfels to Culpepper? Chambers will have a career year this year. Yes he was targeted a lot last year, but a lot of those balls weren't even close. There was no way he could catch a lot of them.BTW, to whoever said Moss is the most dominant receiver in the history of the NFL, come on. Don't you ever curse Jerry Rice that way. How soon they forget.... :no:
 
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I don't think that's much of a stretch. I like Chambers a lot, and those surrounding him are very talented. Moss is supremely talented, but his QB and OL questions, not to mention his own health issues, are weighing him down a lot. We know what he's capable of, but lately teams have been able to contain him for the most part.

I don't see why Chambers WOULDN'T do better this year...

 
If Brooks can get the ball to Joe Horn 90 times a year why would he struggle so bad getting it to Moss? Brooks may make mistakes but he can get his WRs the ball.

 
Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!
And yet an injury-plagued Moss scored more touchdowns in that span than Chambers (21-18).
And yet now Chambers has the QB that threw all of those touchdowns to Moss in that span. Do you really want to compare Jay Fiedler and Sage Rosenfels to Culpepper? Chambers will have a career year this year. Yes he was targeted a lot last year, but a lot of those balls weren't even close. There was no way he could catch a lot of them.BTW, to whoever said Moss is the most dominant receiver in the history of the NFL, come on. Don't you ever curse Cris Carter that way. How soon they forget.... :no:
FIXED :bye:
 
I personally don't think Randy is going to have a great year period. I know he will not be on my team because someone will draft him based on his reputation long before I would. Let someone take Moss and then I'll happily snag Chambers a round or two later.

 
I personally don't think Randy is going to have a great year period. I know he will not be on my team because someone will draft him based on his reputation long before I would. Let someone take Moss and then I'll happily snag Chambers a round or two later.
Hate to burst your bubble, but your plan more than likely won't work out. Moss has an ADP of 2.12 and Chambers of 3.05. So only 5 picks seperate them. Your best bet is to draft the one you see having a better season and it will have to be in the same round. You will be picking between Moss and Chambers, not waiting for one or the other.
 
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I personally don't think Randy is going to have a great year period. I know he will not be on my team because someone will draft him based on his reputation long before I would. Let someone take Moss and then I'll happily snag Chambers a round or two later.
Hate to burst your bubble, but your plan more than likely won't work out. Moss has an ADP of 2.12 and Chambers of 3.05. So only 5 picks seperate them. Your best bet is to draft the one you see having a better season and it will have to be in the same round. You will be picking between Moss and Chambers, not waiting for one or the other.
Even if I had to pick one of the at a given spot, I'd still pick Chambers. But I'd be shocked if Chambers came off the board before Moss. And I still wait until after Moss is off the board before I would take Chambers. If Chambers is gone when my pick comes up, no biggie, there are other receivers I like as well. But unless Moss drops deep into the 3rd, I personally am not considering him at all. I just see too much downside risk to pick him any higher than that.
 
I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me.
I would guess you haven't bothered to really look. I've had Chambers ahead of Moss since our first set of rankings came out. Several other members of the staff have them within two or three positions of each in their rankings. Is it really that much of a stretch? :shrug:

LINK

 
A discussion I had a few days ago.

I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:

CPepp > Brooks

Fins Off. > Raiders Off.

Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOS

Moss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!

I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.

CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.

Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!

Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!
Actually IMO C-Pep spreads the ball around to his receivers.
 
I don't agree, but since Driver and Wayne were gone when I drafted I took Chambers and Javon. I hope you are right.

 
No one agrees with me. :cry: :)

Man we need some real football.

We are all getting a little too antsy.

 
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A discussion I had a few days ago.

I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:

CPepp > Brooks

Fins Off. > Raiders Off.

Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOS

Moss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!

I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.

CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.

Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!

Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!
Actually IMO C-Pep spreads the ball around to his receivers.
2004Wiggins - 74 catches

Burleson - 68

Moss - 49

Robinson - 47

SOD - 36

2003

Moss - 111

Moe - 65

Kleinsasser - 46

Burleson - 29

Campbell - 25

2002

Moss - 106

Bates - 50

Kleinsasser - 37

Bennett - 37

Chamberlain - 34

Moe - 27

2001

Moss - 82

Carter - 73

Chamberlain - 57

Bennett - 29

Reed - 27

 
A discussion I had a few days ago.

I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:

CPepp > Brooks

Fins Off. > Raiders Off.

Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOS

Moss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!

I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.

CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.

Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!

Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!
Actually IMO C-Pep spreads the ball around to his receivers.
I agree...and lets not forget that Booker could regain his previous pro bowl form with C-Pep at the helm.
 
A discussion I had a few days ago.

I haven't seen a MOCK, a projection, or a ranking sheet that agrees with me, yet here's why I think Chambers will have a better year than Randy Moss! And here's why:

CPepp > Brooks

Fins Off. > Raiders Off.

Fins SOS is easier Raiders SOS

Moss faces Champ Bailey twice and Ty Law twice!

I've watched 3 pre-season games for the Raiders and there inept offensive line just does not give Brooks enough time to connect with Moss. There timing is brutal and even Jerry Rice (commenting last game) criticized Moss for his lack of effort.

CPepp does have tunnel vision, which bodes well for Chambers since he's the #1 guy in Fins land.

Both guys here have tremendous upside but it seems I haven't seen Moss catch a slant or a quick out in 2 years!!

Anyone on the other side of the fence here?? Lets see what you got to say!
Actually IMO C-Pep spreads the ball around to his receivers.
I disagree with you here. I don't think he's very good a spreading the ball around. When Pep's #1 is open constantly, he's very good. If he has to look elsewhere, he'll constantly make decisions too slowly (sacks and fumbles) or make bad decisions.
 
I like Chambers a lot this year. He's put up great numbers the past few years especially last season. He has a great coach and now has a legitimate QB throwing him the ball. I think 1000/8 is his absolute floor and I expect better than that. I wish he'd catch more of his targets but that also could be looked at as upside because of the improved situation at QB.

Moss on the other hand is the better player (though more dinged up the past couple years) but is in a much worse situation. IMO, he has lousy coaching, a very questionable QB who even his biggest appologizers have to admit is very streaky, and just an inferior team overall by quite a good measure. Moss could definitely outperform Chambers but I have Chambers (and Boldin) ranked a little better.

 

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