What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

You know, I've been doggin NFL for the NFL Network Dispute (1 Viewer)

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=541999

No screen pass: Packers-Vikings not on TV in some areas

Network dispute leaves out parts of the state

By DON WALKER

dwalker@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Dec. 13, 2006

From Superior to Kenosha, from Hazel Green to Marinette, one question lingers in the minds of pro football fans in Wisconsin.

The answers are: You betcha. Probably. I think. No way. Or, I don't care, I have a satellite dish.

The answers vary because the availability of the game depends on where you live, which cable system you have, or whether you live in what the National Football League considers the Packers' home market.

The Packers have two home markets: Green Bay and Milwaukee. But if you live in or around Escanaba, Mich., that's a Packers' home market, too, and viewers in the Upper Peninsula will be able to see the game.

But viewers, for example, in Madison, Eau Claire and Superior cannot.

Confused?

That's the reality of the nasty street-fight between the NFL Network, which has the broadcast rights to a slate of Thursday night games this season, and a host of cable companies, including such national and regional heavyweights as Time Warner Cable, Comcast and Charter Communications.

The NFL Network is pressuring major cable carriers to put its upstart network on the regular channel lineup. In effect, the NFL is arguing that it's the inalienable right of every American to watch NFL games. So far, the network claims, more than 170 cable companies and two satellite networks - Dish and DirecTV - have cut deals with the network to broadcast the games.

The cable companies, no slouches when it comes to high-pressure lobbying, aren't buying the NFL's end run. Customers want choice, they say. And cable consumers shouldn't have to pay an extra 70 cents each for the network.

Instead, the cable companies would rather put the NFL Network on a premium sports tier with other sports-related networks rather than forcing consumers to pay a price that is greater than some of the more popular cable networks.

As the NFL season edges closer to the playoffs, everyone is waiting to see who will cry uncle first. And waiting in the wings are the satellite providers, ready and willing to snatch up frustrated customers.

This week, the NFL Network opened the door a bit. The network, which is available in about 40 million of the 111 million homes with TV, announced that it would offer one free week of its network programming to Cablevision and Time Warner Cable customers on the East Coast. The offer was seen as a way to placate college football fans who wanted to see the Texas Bowl game on Dec. 28, featuring Rutgers.

However, the offer didn't include the Dec. 30 broadcast of the New York Giants-Washington Redskins football game.

Here in Wisconsin and across the country, the battle for your remote is being played out on many fronts. News releases go out daily taking potshots at the opposition. On the Internet, Web sites (www.nflgetreal.comand www.iwantnflnetwork.com) offer fact sheets and talking points. And in daily newspapers located in NFL markets, cable companies and satellite companies are jousting in full-page ads.

In Wisconsin, major cable companies, as well as the over-the-air television stations that bought the rights to telecast the Packers-Vikings game, are well into a full-blown informational push to keep customers fully educated. In the Milwaukee market, 63% of all households have cable, 22% have over-the-air TV, and 15% have satellite programming.

"This is about money and who gets what cut from it," said Barry Orton, a telecommunications professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. "The NFL has really reached here. They figure they had the consumers by the . . . "

The Vikings-Packers game is shaping up to be especially contentious because of the intense interest in the rivalry and the statewide appeal of the Packers. Packers fans aren't used to missing games on television. And with chunks of Wisconsin not getting the Dec. 21 game, there will be plenty of unhappy fans.

"In other parts of the country we didn't hear much about the dispute until Thanksgiving," said Anita Lamont, a spokeswoman for Charter Communications in St. Louis. "But we've been talking about the NFL Network and Wisconsin since the summer."

Al Lancaster, vice president and general manager of WSAW in Wausau, said he tried to contact the NFL to bid on the over-the-air rights to the game. "They wouldn't do it," he said, adding that Wausau is only an hour from Lambeau Field. "It's going to be ugly."

Viewers in Milwaukee and Green Bay, regardless of whether they have cable television service, won't have to worry. WITI in Milwaukee and WFRV in Green Bay bought the over-the-air rights for the game. And if you have a cable system that carries WITI, WFRV, KSTP in Minneapolis or WJMN in Escanaba, Mich., you can get the game.

That does create some interesting situations, however.

In Madison, Charter Communications customers will not be able to see the game because Charter does not have a carriage agreement with the NFL Network. But Charter Communications customers in some areas, such as Dodge, Waukesha, Sheboygan, Jefferson, Washington and Walworth counties, can see the game because regular cable lineups in those areas receive WITI.

John Miller, a Charter spokesman, declined to state how many customers Charter has in the state but estimated that the over-the-air broadcast carriage of the game will be seen in approximately 55% of Charter households.

He said all customers on the east side of the state from West Bend up through Door County, communities west of Milwaukee such as Fort Atkinson, Jefferson and Oconomowoc, and the Wausau/Stevens Point/Wisconsin Rapids area in the central portion of the state will get the game.

In an interview and subsequent e-mail, Miller said it would be easy for companies such as Charter and Time Warner to "roll over" and pay the NFL Network what it wants and place it on basic cable. "But that is not what our customers have been saying to us over the last couple of years, regarding programming services vs. content," he said. "They have asked for more ability to select or decline services that could impact prices, thereby creating more value to them, as opposed to automatically receiving a service that would significantly impact their bill," Miller said.

Seth Palansky, an NFL Network spokesman, said the network had signed up about 45 new cable companies nationwide in the past few weeks. He declined to say how much the network was asking for rights. "We stick to saying it's the cost of a Madison, Wisconsin, movie ticket for a year.

"We believe this network provides good content 365 days a year," Palansky said. "It's football, and it is as popular as anything else. It belongs next to Jewelry TV and others that are on basic cable programs."

The NFL Network has been adamant that it doesn't want to get relegated to a premium tier. The cable companies, Palansky said, want a sports tier to make more money.

"We object to that," he said. "They are discriminating against their customers."

Dish and DirecTV, eager to capitalize on the fallout, have been actively seeking new customers via newspaper ads and telemarketing. In full-page newspaper ads, Dish is warning people they might miss some of the games leading up to the NFL playoffs. Counting tonight's broadcast of the San Francisco-Seattle Seahawks game, the NFL Network is planning to broadcast five more games.

"We're making sure we're reaching out to consumers who are in a position to not get the games," said Cory Vasquez, a Dish spokesman. "If you are a fan and you are concerned, and you can't see it, we are a good option. That's the message we are trying to get out."

Last week, Time Warner filed suit in federal court in New York accusing DirecTV of engaging in false advertising and deceptive business practices in connection with its promotion of the NFL Network. The lawsuit said DirecTV ads claim home team fans won't be able to see games carried by the NFL Network unless they subscribe to DirecTV. The ads have run in Milwaukee and Green Bay, among other cities.

A DirecTV spokesman declined to comment on the suit.

Packers chairman Bob Harlan, already concerned with the sight of empty seats in Lambeau Field, says the dispute concerns him.

"I've talked to the league several times," Harlan said. "I do realize it's a problem, and I hate to see it happen. On top of that, it's a division game."

"I don't think the cable industry is going to blink on this one," Orton predicted. "I'm betting on the cable industry and six points."

In the meantime, be sure to check your local listings. It might be the only way to know for sure.

From the Dec. 14, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

 
Thanks for the info. I'm in Eau Claire and know I've been emailing Charter about every day asking them to add the NFL Network back to their lineup. What really sucks is that we had NFL Network last year, then one day they pulled it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
My cable company (PatMedia in central NJ) has the NFL network but they won't pay the extra fees to show the actual games. It's $100k per game, so I get a blacked out channel during games...very frustrating.

Does anyone know if the NFL network plans to expand the number of games they televise in years to come?

 
Just make every program pay per view and I'll go along with it. I'd love to have a direct pricing system.

 
Jim Dolan, the head of MSG (who owns Cablevision), was on the radio the other day whining about the NFL and the way they handle the NFL Network and Sunday Ticket. First, he was complaining that the NFL charges too much for the NFL Network. Then, he's complaining that the NFL only offers the NFL Network and not Sunday Ticket. He basically called the NFL Network a piece of ####. Several times he was asked about Directv's exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket. He continually ignored the question. Finally, he basically said the NFL should buy their way out of their agreement with Directv and negotiate with cable companies, saying he would sign the same deal Directv has today.

He really came across badly, in my opinion. He kept trying to tie Sunday Ticket to NFL Network as a justification for not carrying the NFL Network. Then, he was informed by Mike & the Mad Dog that the NFL was providing a freeview in December. He didn't even have any idea the NFL was doing that.

 
What really sucks is that we had NFL Network last year, then one day they pulled it.
I have been mentioning this repeatedly in these types of threads. Time Warner is getting all of the attention and Charter customers are being ignored. I think that's ridiculous when you consider Charter actually had The NFL Network. If anyone's customers should be up in arms about this whole deal it's Charter's customers since they had something taken away without their consent that they previously were able to view.
 
Honestly I have to laugh at this whole discussion. Any conversation about cable television the last couple of years includes people railing against the niche channels being included in basic cable and having to pay for 5 shopping channels and 4 religion channels or whatever. Why can't the cable companies create a Shopping Tier and a Religious Tier, etc.? So now that there is another Niche network coming on the air devoted almost exclusively to one league in one sport, and the cable companies are putting it in the Sports Tier, everyone is #####ing. Amazing. Listen, both sides here are after your money. The NFL wants the most viewers possible so it can charge advertisers the most money for ad time. And the cable companies want to put the NFLN on the sports tier so they get more NFL fans to buy the sports tier and they make more money. That's the way that companies work. They try to get the most profit for their stakeholders. So get past the greed angle. What's the next level of discussion? The crux of the argument? The cable companies have heard the cries of getting niche channels off of basic cable so they are making a stand here and want to put the NFLN on a Sports Tier. And they are the bad guys?

 
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=541999

"This is about money and who gets what cut from it," said Barry Orton, a telecommunications professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. "The NFL has really reached here. They figure they had the consumers by the . . . "
See what most of us here don't get (because we're HUGE football fans) is that there's A LOT of people who could give a rats rear end about football. By the NFL Network pushing HARD to get their channel on the basic tier (big :moneybag: in ad revenue) yet charging the cable Companies premium rates, ala HBO, Cinemax etc... because they think consumer pressure will make the Cable companies cave, the NFL has caused this impasse.It's business & they'll eventually reach a middle ground.

 
What really sucks is that we had NFL Network last year, then one day they pulled it.
I have been mentioning this repeatedly in these types of threads. Time Warner is getting all of the attention and Charter customers are being ignored. I think that's ridiculous when you consider Charter actually had The NFL Network. If anyone's customers should be up in arms about this whole deal it's Charter's customers since they had something taken away without their consent that they previously were able to view.
Actually, the NFL pulled the plug on Charter.Charter loses NFL Network

 
In effect, the NFL is arguing that it's the inalienable right of every American to watch NFL games.
Apparently it's our inalienable right to watch only the games they want us to see. Sure, Sunday Ticket is great but there's only a small percentage of Americans that even have the ability to get DirecTV because of where they live - and Sunday Ticket is available in Canada to any cable subscriber.The NFL doesn't care if we see the games or not as long as they get paid. I hope Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy of Congress are serious about going after the NFL's antitrust exemption unless the NFL makes Sunday Ticket available to anyone who wants it.
 
We live in a capitalistic society. I'm a consumer. I want to pay for only the channels I want. I don't want the other garbage. Period.

I want a Web interface that allows me to select a set of channels for my monthly service and then I want the ability to pay for isolated specials on other channels if I deem them worthy. I am willing to pay for this. I don't want bundles or tiers or any such garbage.

They have the technical capability to pull this off, and they could if they wanted to. They choose not to.

So what if 1/2 of the lousy channels go away. If no one wants to pay for them, then that should clearly tell you something about your programming ...

 
...but there's only a small percentage of Americans that even have the ability to get DirecTV because of where they live...
Link to the numbers on that, please.
He doesn't need a link. Lots of Americans live in apartment complexes whose 1) Balconies don't face southor2) agreement specifies no dish.I live on 6th st. in some nice lofts in Austin. There is a Home Owners Association mandate against dishes, even though my porch faces south. I HATE TWC, but there's nothing I can do.
 
Jim Dolan, the head of MSG (who owns Cablevision), was on the radio the other day whining about the NFL and the way they handle the NFL Network and Sunday Ticket. First, he was complaining that the NFL charges too much for the NFL Network. Then, he's complaining that the NFL only offers the NFL Network and not Sunday Ticket. He basically called the NFL Network a piece of ####. Several times he was asked about Directv's exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket. He continually ignored the question. Finally, he basically said the NFL should buy their way out of their agreement with Directv and negotiate with cable companies, saying he would sign the same deal Directv has today. He really came across badly, in my opinion. He kept trying to tie Sunday Ticket to NFL Network as a justification for not carrying the NFL Network. Then, he was informed by Mike & the Mad Dog that the NFL was providing a freeview in December. He didn't even have any idea the NFL was doing that.
I completely disagree. As a Cablevision subscriber I generally HATE Dolan. However, after after listening to him basically say he's not picking up the NFL Network because they won't give cable the Sunday Ticket I like him a lot more. Its time this monopoly ends and us cable subscribers who can't get directTv are able to purchase Sunday Ticket.
 
Listen, both sides here are after your money. The NFL wants the most viewers possible so it can charge advertisers the most money for ad time. And the cable companies want to put the NFLN on the sports tier so they get more NFL fans to buy the sports tier and they make more money. That's the way that companies work.
Exactly. Time Warner's sales of their Sport Pak, or whatever they call it, isn't exactly through the roof. It consists of Speed, Fuel, NBA Network, Tennis Channel, CSTV, Outdoor Channel, and 3 FCS regional channels.I buy it for Speed and Fuel, but I think TW wants to put NFLN there not just for philosophical reasons, but also because they see NFLN as an anchor for the Sports Pak, not just a way to boost sales a little.

The crux of the argument? The cable companies have heard the cries of getting niche channels off of basic cable so they are making a stand here and want to put the NFLN on a Sports Tier. And they are the bad guys?
Also, it seems likely to me that if the cable companies acquiesce on this, then every decent niche channel that comes along is going to try to do the same thing to them, and some of the existing ones might try it, too, when their contracts run out. This, obviously, would be a huge headache.That said, there is one little problem with TW's claim of trying to save the consumer $$. I had Speed and Fuel back before the Sports Pak came along. Then they created the Sports Pak and put Speed and Fuel on it, costing me $2 a month. But it's not like they started charging $2 for the Sports Pak and lowered the base rate for the other channels by $2, thus saving the money of the consumer who doesn't want the Sport Pak. That rate didn't drop, and the $2 was added to it. I began paying $2 more for the same thing I was getting before, and everyone else kept paying the same and stopped getting the channels that are now on the Sports Pak.

Bottom line: It was a rate hike for everyone.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What really sucks is that we had NFL Network last year, then one day they pulled it.
I have been mentioning this repeatedly in these types of threads. Time Warner is getting all of the attention and Charter customers are being ignored. I think that's ridiculous when you consider Charter actually had The NFL Network. If anyone's customers should be up in arms about this whole deal it's Charter's customers since they had something taken away without their consent that they previously were able to view.
Actually, the NFL pulled the plug on Charter.Charter loses NFL Network
I know and that's my point - Charter customers actually had the service whereas Time Warner never did. In fact, Charter was the first cable service to provide it. Seems to me their customers are being short-shifted here with all the attention TW.
 
...but there's only a small percentage of Americans that even have the ability to get DirecTV because of where they live...
Link to the numbers on that, please.
He doesn't need a link. Lots of Americans live in apartment complexes whose 1) Balconies don't face southor2) agreement specifies no dish.I live on 6th st. in some nice lofts in Austin. There is a Home Owners Association mandate against dishes, even though my porch faces south. I HATE TWC, but there's nothing I can do.
I agree that lots of people are in situations like yours.Pretty sure there are lots that aren't, as well.I've seen this complaint a lot in these discussions but I'm not sure I've ever heard a number. So I'm asking what is that small percentage. 5%? 10%? 20%?At the moment I would be suprised if only 20% of Americans had the ability, physically and legally, to access DirecTV. My assumption is that far more than that have the opportunity, but I'm willing to have my assumption proven wrong.
 
Jim Dolan, the head of MSG (who owns Cablevision), was on the radio the other day whining about the NFL and the way they handle the NFL Network and Sunday Ticket. First, he was complaining that the NFL charges too much for the NFL Network. Then, he's complaining that the NFL only offers the NFL Network and not Sunday Ticket. He basically called the NFL Network a piece of ####. Several times he was asked about Directv's exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket. He continually ignored the question. Finally, he basically said the NFL should buy their way out of their agreement with Directv and negotiate with cable companies, saying he would sign the same deal Directv has today. He really came across badly, in my opinion. He kept trying to tie Sunday Ticket to NFL Network as a justification for not carrying the NFL Network. Then, he was informed by Mike & the Mad Dog that the NFL was providing a freeview in December. He didn't even have any idea the NFL was doing that.
I completely disagree. As a Cablevision subscriber I generally HATE Dolan. However, after after listening to him basically say he's not picking up the NFL Network because they won't give cable the Sunday Ticket I like him a lot more. Its time this monopoly ends and us cable subscribers who can't get directTv are able to purchase Sunday Ticket.
Wow! I heard the interview and thought Dolan came off as small minded, vindictive, uncaring and kind of stupid. He completely contradicted the Cablevision party line regarding the NFL Ntwk when he revealed that if the NFL were to allow Cablevision the ability to purchase the Sunday Ticket, he would put the NFL Ntwk on basic with no problems. To me, he comes off as a weasle considering that there is no mention of this Sunday Ticket reasoning in any of the adds where Cablevision list all the reasons why they can't put the NFL Ntwk on basic. Yet there he was telling us that is the main reason. Typical Cablevision double talk, and I am surprised that anyone would buy it.
 
DynOmite said:
Archie Bunker said:
Jim Dolan, the head of MSG (who owns Cablevision), was on the radio the other day whining about the NFL and the way they handle the NFL Network and Sunday Ticket. First, he was complaining that the NFL charges too much for the NFL Network. Then, he's complaining that the NFL only offers the NFL Network and not Sunday Ticket. He basically called the NFL Network a piece of ####. Several times he was asked about Directv's exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket. He continually ignored the question. Finally, he basically said the NFL should buy their way out of their agreement with Directv and negotiate with cable companies, saying he would sign the same deal Directv has today. He really came across badly, in my opinion. He kept trying to tie Sunday Ticket to NFL Network as a justification for not carrying the NFL Network. Then, he was informed by Mike & the Mad Dog that the NFL was providing a freeview in December. He didn't even have any idea the NFL was doing that.
I completely disagree. As a Cablevision subscriber I generally HATE Dolan. However, after after listening to him basically say he's not picking up the NFL Network because they won't give cable the Sunday Ticket I like him a lot more. Its time this monopoly ends and us cable subscribers who can't get directTv are able to purchase Sunday Ticket.
That's not a monopoly. The cable companies are the ones that had the monopoly for years. That's why I swtiched to Directv. Directv negotiated for exclusive rights. Cable companies dropped the ball years ago and now they're whining because they lost. Directv took a huge gamble because it was no certainty that enough people would cough up $150 (back then) in order to watch any game they wanted. They rolled the dice & won. They shouldn't be penalized because cable companies were too cheap ot didn't have a set of baIIs big enough.Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about cable subscribers. I feel for the cable subscribers that cannot get directv.
 
I don't really care who gets what share of the $ pot they are all fighting over.

As long as it results in more people being able to watch, then that's the deal I am rooting for...

 
Archie Bunker said:
Jim Dolan, the head of MSG (who owns Cablevision), was on the radio the other day whining about the NFL and the way they handle the NFL Network and Sunday Ticket. First, he was complaining that the NFL charges too much for the NFL Network. Then, he's complaining that the NFL only offers the NFL Network and not Sunday Ticket. He basically called the NFL Network a piece of ####. Several times he was asked about Directv's exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket. He continually ignored the question. Finally, he basically said the NFL should buy their way out of their agreement with Directv and negotiate with cable companies, saying he would sign the same deal Directv has today. He really came across badly, in my opinion. He kept trying to tie Sunday Ticket to NFL Network as a justification for not carrying the NFL Network. Then, he was informed by Mike & the Mad Dog that the NFL was providing a freeview in December. He didn't even have any idea the NFL was doing that.
These are the same prats who submarined the Jets Stadium in NYC last year.F them right in the ear. They can cry all they want, this is two rich kids arguing over who tips on a three dollar check and we're all waiters.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top