You make the call... (1 Viewer)

[BassNBrew]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format. You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year. Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board. You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

 

[Kleck]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Ask a harder one.

 

[diesel7982]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

Id listen to a 6'2 250lb guy if he were holding a knife too.Not a chance Lewis is a top 5 LB at this point. Hes a top 5 LB like Randall McDaniel was a top 5 OG before he retired.

 

[Eli2Shockey]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

Id listen to a 6'2 250lb guy if he were holding a knife too.Not a chance Lewis is a top 5 LB at this point. Hes a top 5 LB like Randall McDaniel was a top 5 OG before he retired.

Yes, he is the most intimidating defensive player in the league. He is a complete psycho, I would love to have him on my team.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

Whoever this Shick! character is, he seems to know his stuff.

 

[SSOG]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format. You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year. Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board. You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

No. Lewis isn't even CLOSE to a top-5 LB at this point in his career. He might still be a top-5 INSIDE LB (he'd at least have an arguement), but I think Al Wilson and Brian Urlacher are both no-brainers to go ahead of Lewis, and lots of other ILBs make a very solid case (Zack Thomas, Mike Peterson, Tedy Bruschi, Johnathon Vilma, Lofa Tatupu).Even worse... if you get Lewis, then you have to alter the entire rest of your draft to protect him. You heard him whining this offseason about needing an NT in front of him. You saw the way that the Ravens switched to a 3-4 when he started to decline and turned Hartwell (a solid ILB in his own right) into a glorified SLB whose main purpose was to keep Lewis' jersey clean. If you drafted Lewis in real life, you'd have to deal with those same issues all over again. You have to keep him clean to keep him effective, and keeping him clean requires a very heavy investment in its own right- so not only would you have to spend high to get him, you'd have to spend high to keep him effective, too.

If I draft a player that high, I want a player who will make my team better no matter what I do, not a player who is essentially nothing more than a very talented role-player who, outside of that role (staying clean of blockers and flying to the ball), is not nearly as effective as he once was.

Now, if the NFL awarded points for complaining about phantom double teams, Ray Lewis would be the #1 pick in the draft in any format.

 

[MBL12PK]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format.  You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year.  Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board.  You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

Even worse... if you get Lewis, then you have to alter the entire rest of your draft to protect him. You heard him whining this offseason about needing an NT in front of him. You saw the way that the Ravens switched to a 3-4 when he started to decline and turned Hartwell (a solid ILB in his own right) into a glorified SLB whose main purpose was to keep Lewis' jersey clean. If you drafted Lewis in real life, you'd have to deal with those same issues all over again. You have to keep him clean to keep him effective, and keeping him clean requires a very heavy investment in its own right- so not only would you have to spend high to get him, you'd have to spend high to keep him effective, too.

Ravens Draft

OWINGS MILLS, Md. — Ray Lewis made his point clear. Ten days before Saturday's NFL Draft, he went on ESPN and said his Baltimore Ravens needed to draft a run-stuffing nose tackle in the first round. His former teammate, Maake Kemoeatu, a 350-pound nose tackle, had signed as a free agent with Carolina.

Without a big man in front of him, Lewis complained, he could not make plays. "If I'm not being used right," he said, "you might as well let me go."

 

[noneother]

if had a squad with the likes of AJ hawk, Odell Thurman, demarcus Ware, bobby Carpenter, I would LOVE to have Ray on the field, to show these guys how it's done.... couldn't imagine Ware with Ray's motor.. not to mention Ray on his back all day long....

 

[Reaper]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format.  You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year.  Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board.  You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

No. Lewis isn't even CLOSE to a top-5 LB at this point in his career. He might still be a top-5 INSIDE LB (he'd at least have an arguement), but I think Al Wilson and Brian Urlacher are both no-brainers to go ahead of Lewis, and lots of other ILBs make a very solid case (Zack Thomas, Mike Peterson, Tedy Bruschi, Johnathon Vilma, Lofa Tatupu).Even worse... if you get Lewis, then you have to alter the entire rest of your draft to protect him. You heard him whining this offseason about needing an NT in front of him. You saw the way that the Ravens switched to a 3-4 when he started to decline and turned Hartwell (a solid ILB in his own right) into a glorified SLB whose main purpose was to keep Lewis' jersey clean. If you drafted Lewis in real life, you'd have to deal with those same issues all over again. You have to keep him clean to keep him effective, and keeping him clean requires a very heavy investment in its own right- so not only would you have to spend high to get him, you'd have to spend high to keep him effective, too.

If I draft a player that high, I want a player who will make my team better no matter what I do, not a player who is essentially nothing more than a very talented role-player who, outside of that role (staying clean of blockers and flying to the ball), is not nearly as effective as he once was.

Now, if the NFL awarded points for complaining about phantom double teams, Ray Lewis would be the #1 pick in the draft in any format.

Very Interesting Points - On a Jets board there's a big debate about the similarities between this and Vilma with regards to the switch to the 3-4.....Was it the 3-4 and lack of "protection" that hurt Lewis or is it more of just a natural decline do to age? Probably a combo, which is more? Would a younger Ray Lewis have thrived no matter what?

 

[Sinrman]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

 

[Rhino802]

A couple of years ago this wasn't even debatable, but he missed more tackles in the 04 season and 05 (until injured) than he did in his previous 8 years. Clearly, he isn't the player that he was - he doesn't play with the same physical intensity that he did and almost like he is concerned with reinjuring his shoulder.

This is a guy who went from taking down the Bus (who had a full head of steam)with one hand to being run over by Marshall Faulk in the space of 2 seasons.

 

[dgreen]

A couple of years ago this wasn't even debatable, but he missed more tackles in the 04 season and 05 (until injured) than he did in his previous 8 years. Clearly, he isn't the player that he was - he doesn't play with the same physical intensity that he did and almost like he is concerned with reinjuring his shoulder.

This is a guy who went from taking down the Bus (who had a full head of steam)with one hand to being run over by Marshall Faulk in the space of 2 seasons.

Yes, he's not the player he once was. But, you'd be surprised to find out who got by who throughout history. We don't see all highlights of Jim Brown being stuffed in the backfield by some average LB, but I guarantee it happened on occassion. We don't see the highlights of some average RB carrying Ray Nitchske for a few yards, but it happened on occassion. Just because Faulk ran over Lewis doesn't mean anything. Lewis was probably run over as a rookie, as a three-year vet, and he'll be run over every once in a while as long as he plays.

 

[Kleck]

Yes. He is more than just a talent. He's a leader. He (more than any other player I've watched in the last 10 years) elevates the play of an entire defense.

Id listen to a 6'2 250lb guy if he were holding a knife too.Not a chance Lewis is a top 5 LB at this point. Hes a top 5 LB like Randall McDaniel was a top 5 OG before he retired.

I'll just assume you didn't really consider what I wrote. Is the word "thug" the word that best describes Lewis for you? Sounds like it. You must have ignored every interview done by Lewis as well as any discussion of Lewis by one of his peers over the last five years. He's a terribly focused player as well as role model for tons of younger players. He's no thug now.

 

[brewer]

I've come to respect and even like Lewis over the years. Once upon a time, this was a no brainer - yes. Now however, this is a no brainer - no. He is no where close to playing at the level that he once did. Oh yah, add surgery to repair a torn hamstring and I'll be shocked if he is anywhere near what he used to be in this upcoming season.

 

[Borat]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format.  You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year.  Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board.  You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

No. Lewis isn't even CLOSE to a top-5 LB at this point in his career. He might still be a top-5 INSIDE LB (he'd at least have an arguement), but I think Al Wilson and Brian Urlacher are both no-brainers to go ahead of Lewis, and lots of other ILBs make a very solid case (Zack Thomas, Mike Peterson, Tedy Bruschi, Johnathon Vilma, Lofa Tatupu).Even worse... if you get Lewis, then you have to alter the entire rest of your draft to protect him. You heard him whining this offseason about needing an NT in front of him. You saw the way that the Ravens switched to a 3-4 when he started to decline and turned Hartwell (a solid ILB in his own right) into a glorified SLB whose main purpose was to keep Lewis' jersey clean. If you drafted Lewis in real life, you'd have to deal with those same issues all over again. You have to keep him clean to keep him effective, and keeping him clean requires a very heavy investment in its own right- so not only would you have to spend high to get him, you'd have to spend high to keep him effective, too.

If I draft a player that high, I want a player who will make my team better no matter what I do, not a player who is essentially nothing more than a very talented role-player who, outside of that role (staying clean of blockers and flying to the ball), is not nearly as effective as he once was.

Now, if the NFL awarded points for complaining about phantom double teams, Ray Lewis would be the #1 pick in the draft in any format.

Very Also, I forget where I read it (Dr. Z, I believe), but several players have said that Ray Lewis is overrated as a leader, and can even be a negative leader at times (similar to Lawyer Milloy), which really isn't very hard to believe. These players also said that all his yelling and screaming and barking and dancing and other such nonsense got old after awhile, which also isn't very hard to believe.

 

[SSOG]

Very Interesting Points - On a Jets board there's a big debate about the similarities between this and Vilma with regards to the switch to the 3-4.....

Was it the 3-4 and lack of "protection" that hurt Lewis or is it more of just a natural decline do to age? Probably a combo, which is more? Would a younger Ray Lewis have thrived no matter what?

The thing to remember is that Baltimore didn't run a very typical 3-4.In the typical 3-4, your defensive lineman usually play 2-gap schemes, just trying to tie up blockers to keep the LBs clean. As a result, it's easier for offenses to get blockers onto SPECIFIC LBs (although hard to since there's an extra LB, there are theoretically just as many LBs free on any given play).

The Ravens played more of a 1-gap 3-4 defense, unique in the league as far as I know. Their DL was geared more towards penetration rather than occupying blockers. They had Edgerrton Hartwell at ILB playing like a second SLB, and Ray Lewis playing like a SS.

If you're familiar with IDP leagues, you will probably know that SSs tend to get a ton of tackles, and SLBs tend to get relatively few. This is because the SLB's job is to tie up blockers to leave the SS free to come up and make the play. That was how Hartwell played- he tied up blockers, leaving Lewis free to make the play. As a result, while most LBs lose protection when they go from a 4-3 to a 3-4, Baltimore didn't employ a standard 3-4, so Ray Lewis wound up with just as much protection. In fact, while I don't know the exact reason for the switch, I speculate it's because Lewis was declining and they needed to take new measures to keep blockers off of him or watch him become mortal again.

As a result, Lewis played pretty well still until this last season. You'll notice he wasn't demanding his front office get some players to keep blockers off of him, at any rate. Anyway, last year was the first time since the 2001 that the Ravens didn't run a scheme directly designed to keep Lewis clean... and you saw what the result was. Lewis whining on draft day until Baltimore took a DT.

How will this affect Vilma? Well, I expect his production to drop in a 3-4. Lewis's didn't, but Baltimore ran a very unique 3-4 designed to funnel all plays towards Lewis still. I somehow doubt the Jets will be running a similar scheme.

 

[jerseyh8r]

I said yes. He is no longer the most talented man on the field, I grant that. But he is an intangible guy that makes your D better, IMO.

In baseball, I would compare him to Derek Jeter. There was a point in time when he wasn't as good as ARod, Garciaparra, or Tejeda....but I would still take him over all those guys b/c he gives a team the best chance of winning with base-running, hustle, leadership, etc.

I think, the same can be said for Lewis. He seems to be a tremendous leader, makes very few mistakes, and brings an infectious intensity onto the field that brings out the best in his teammates. In FF, no way si he top 5, but if I were a real GM, give my Ray Lewis for one year, and I think that my team will be more successful than a D led by some of the other guys listed earlier.

Just my

 

[Reaper]

Very Interesting Points - On a Jets board there's a big debate about the similarities between this and Vilma with regards to the switch to the 3-4.....

Was it the 3-4 and lack of "protection" that hurt Lewis or is it more of just a natural decline do to age?  Probably a combo, which is more?  Would a younger Ray Lewis have thrived no matter what?

The thing to remember is that Baltimore didn't run a very typical 3-4.In the typical 3-4, your defensive lineman usually play 2-gap schemes, just trying to tie up blockers to keep the LBs clean. As a result, it's easier for offenses to get blockers onto SPECIFIC LBs (although hard to since there's an extra LB, there are theoretically just as many LBs free on any given play).

The Ravens played more of a 1-gap 3-4 defense, unique in the league as far as I know. Their DL was geared more towards penetration rather than occupying blockers. They had Edgerrton Hartwell at ILB playing like a second SLB, and Ray Lewis playing like a SS.

If you're familiar with IDP leagues, you will probably know that SSs tend to get a ton of tackles, and SLBs tend to get relatively few. This is because the SLB's job is to tie up blockers to leave the SS free to come up and make the play. That was how Hartwell played- he tied up blockers, leaving Lewis free to make the play. As a result, while most LBs lose protection when they go from a 4-3 to a 3-4, Baltimore didn't employ a standard 3-4, so Ray Lewis wound up with just as much protection. In fact, while I don't know the exact reason for the switch, I speculate it's because Lewis was declining and they needed to take new measures to keep blockers off of him or watch him become mortal again.

As a result, Lewis played pretty well still until this last season. You'll notice he wasn't demanding his front office get some players to keep blockers off of him, at any rate. Anyway, last year was the first time since the 2001 that the Ravens didn't run a scheme directly designed to keep Lewis clean... and you saw what the result was. Lewis whining on draft day until Baltimore took a DT.

How will this affect Vilma? Well, I expect his production to drop in a 3-4. Lewis's didn't, but Baltimore ran a very unique 3-4 designed to funnel all plays towards Lewis still. I somehow doubt the Jets will be running a similar scheme.

Well, they did jump up to take ILB Schlegel and the talk is he's a better stay at home, Bigger ILB that will help keep blockers off Vilma....

Vilma is undersized, I would think the Jets would look to do the same thing trying to keep him free.... Also - It's not like the Jets have a huge DL that can tie up blockers at this point.

 

[-OZ-]

It's close.

For one year, I'd have to consider Urlacher as the hands down #1 ILB, then guys like Donnie Edwards, Bulluck, Vilma, Spikes, Wilson, Brooks, and Zach Thomas. Ray is on par, but I don't think it's an easy answer.

 

[slayer666]

You're an NFL GM and the league has gone to a yearly redraft format.  You've been tasked with making draft boards for each position based upon who you think will be the best players for your team this year.  Is Ray Lewis in the top five on your linebacker draft board.  You will be drafting from scratch next year so longevity isn't an issue.

No.I couldn't bring myself to rely on a 31-year old linebacker who has missed major portions of 2 of the past 4 seasons. Ray Lewis has missed 22 starts in the past 4 seasons due to various injuries. I feel he has red flags in 2006 based on the fact he's attempting to return from surgery on a partially torn right hammy.

Between his age, price and recent injury history I couldn't slot him in the top 5 linebackers on my draft board.