Your attitudes toward gays and gay rights (1 Viewer)

[Zow]

Since girl on girl action is generally considered "attractive," women likely don't face the social pressure.

Link?

Are you daring me to ban myself? I have a phenomenal video of Sasha Grey and Belladonna doing some wonderful things to each other, but I'm not ready for my season to be over yet.

 

[Clifford]

If you Christians could just get off the idea of sexual sin, which is a patriarchal tactic used to oppress women for centuries, then you'd get a lot less friction from the rest of the world.

I'm not sure I understand the patriarchy thing here. There's nothing in Christianity that I'm aware of that says that adultery is bad for women but okay for men. But whatever. No sexual sin. Got it.

They way you guys (and girls) beat yourselves up for perfectly healthy and natural urges is just hard to watch. All it does is bottle all that sexual energy up inside you and it eventually explodes, usually in the form of cheating on your spouse or getting into hookers or even something worse. Which of course serves to reinforce the notion of sexual sin in the very insulated circles most active Christians work in (something consistently reinforced by the megachurches which are, after all, subscription-based businesses).

It's a sick, sick loop.

Wait a second. You just told me there's no such thing as sexual sin. So why do you suddenly have a problem with cheating on your spouse or getting into hookers or something "worse?"

Well, because cheating on your spouse is a breach of trust, almost always involves lies, and betrayal, If it didn't it wouldn't be cheating.Hookers? Besides being illegal, not exactly a healthy consensual relationship. Consensual sure, but cmon, do I really have to explain what could be bad or sinful about developing a hooker habit?

Something worse would be cheating on your wife whilst smoking crack with your gay hooker lover, eg Haggard.

Point being repression of sexual urges often leads to bad results. Remove the need for repressing them, eg sexual sin, and you remove effects that are a hell of a lot worse than sex.

Yes. Outside of illegality, what's wrong with having sex with prostitutes?

Seriously? As a habit? For one, very expensive.

Stuff that's expensive is a sin?

Never said it was a sin. You really want to continue this?

 

[McGarnicle]

Since girl on girl action is generally considered "attractive," women likely don't face the social pressure.

Link?

Are you daring me to ban myself? I have a phenomenal video of Sasha Grey and Belladonna doing some wonderful things to each other, but I'm not ready for my season to be over yet.

Thank you so much

 

[ConnSKINS26]

its late, im tired so oll bite on the fishing trip...

you honestly believe guys are saying you know what sucking **** must not be too bad, ill pick that

Not men, children, yes.

EDIT: You don't think it's more likely that in a society where homosexuality is encouraged and accepted that a higher population of the youth might experiment or question their sexuality? C'mon man, I think you're overestimating the intelligence of kids and teenagers.

You literally cannot turn on television without hearing a gay reference or seeing a gay person. It's everywhere, it's normal, and on shows like Glee it's "hip".

Dated a girl in college who loved Glee. Pretty sure the gay kid hated his life and another kid who realized he was gay tried to kill himself.

So "hip".

 

[Todd Andrews]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

 

[MaxThreshold]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

 

[Todd Andrews]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

 

[MaxThreshold]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

More gay jokes from a progressive who claims to support homosexuality? How do you feel when you say you support homosexuality but then turn around and then use gay jokes?

If there was only a word for someone who says one thing but does another. Hmmmm...

 

[Todd Andrews]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

More gay jokes from a progressive who claims to support homosexuality? How do you feel when you say you support homosexuality but then turn around and then use gay jokes?

If there was only a word for someone who says one thing but does another. Hmmmm...

Whatever that is, it sounds similar to repressed in the closet gay Republicans who are anti-gay marriage....hmmmmmm....

 

[RBM]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

More gay jokes from a progressive who claims to support homosexuality? How do you feel when you say you support homosexuality but then turn around and then use gay jokes?

If there was only a word for someone who says one thing but does another. Hmmmm...

In Andrews case....hows dooshbag?

 

[MaxThreshold]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

More gay jokes from a progressive who claims to support homosexuality? How do you feel when you say you support homosexuality but then turn around and then use gay jokes?

If there was only a word for someone who says one thing but does another. Hmmmm...

In Andrews case....hows dooshbag?

That'll work too!

 

[MaxThreshold]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

More gay jokes from a progressive who claims to support homosexuality? How do you feel when you say you support homosexuality but then turn around and then use gay jokes?

If there was only a word for someone who says one thing but does another. Hmmmm...

Whatever that is, it sounds similar to repressed in the closet gay Republicans who are anti-gay marriage....hmmmmmm....

Poor, Todd. Tries so hard but fails every single time.

 

[AAABatteries]

Question for the guys in here who are fed up with the overly-flamboyant gay guys? I've seen this comment from a few people - they're sick of the overly-out-in-the-open flamboyant gay guys.

How many of these people do you actually know? How many do you deal with regularly?

I can honestly say I don't know any really overly-flamboyant gay men. Can you tell that my gay friends are gay by talking to them? For the most part, yes. Are they Carson Kressley wannabes? Definitely not. Not even close.

This is a great question, unfortunately I can't answer it. I can answer something similar - I hate the flamboyant hetero men. "I banged 5 chicks this weekend!". "Had a 3-way with twins last night." Real Disco Stu types. Yeah, hated that guy with all his "the hot Asianed women throgh themselves at me." Don't get me wrong, I masturbated to his posts like everybody else but it was an angry session. Guy was just full of himself. But we all got the last laugh, didn't we? Welcome to hell sucker - pounding that single ###### for eternity like the rest of us.

 

[mr roboto]

I believe similar to Jayrod re:religious belief, but I'm totally and unequivocally fine with both homosexual practice and homosexual marriage being legal in the US. I would have a real problem with churches being forced to marry, or recognize the marriages of gay couples. I know this isn't going to happen, but a lot of Christians fear the 'slippery slope' of legal gay marriage>speaking against homosexuality made illegal>Christian teaching being considered a hate crime>forcing religious institutions to marry same sex couples.

I voted 3 because 2 was too strongly stated at the beginning of the answer.

 

[Zow]

Since girl on girl action is generally considered "attractive," women likely don't face the social pressure.

Link?

Are you daring me to ban myself? I have a phenomenal video of Sasha Grey and Belladonna doing some wonderful things to each other, but I'm not ready for my season to be over yet.

Thank you so much

Welcome.

 

[Henry Ford]

If you Christians could just get off the idea of sexual sin, which is a patriarchal tactic used to oppress women for centuries, then you'd get a lot less friction from the rest of the world.

I'm not sure I understand the patriarchy thing here. There's nothing in Christianity that I'm aware of that says that adultery is bad for women but okay for men. But whatever. No sexual sin. Got it.

They way you guys (and girls) beat yourselves up for perfectly healthy and natural urges is just hard to watch. All it does is bottle all that sexual energy up inside you and it eventually explodes, usually in the form of cheating on your spouse or getting into hookers or even something worse. Which of course serves to reinforce the notion of sexual sin in the very insulated circles most active Christians work in (something consistently reinforced by the megachurches which are, after all, subscription-based businesses).

It's a sick, sick loop.

Wait a second. You just told me there's no such thing as sexual sin. So why do you suddenly have a problem with cheating on your spouse or getting into hookers or something "worse?"

Well, because cheating on your spouse is a breach of trust, almost always involves lies, and betrayal, If it didn't it wouldn't be cheating.Hookers? Besides being illegal, not exactly a healthy consensual relationship. Consensual sure, but cmon, do I really have to explain what could be bad or sinful about developing a hooker habit?

Something worse would be cheating on your wife whilst smoking crack with your gay hooker lover, eg Haggard.

Point being repression of sexual urges often leads to bad results. Remove the need for repressing them, eg sexual sin, and you remove effects that are a hell of a lot worse than sex.

Yes. Outside of illegality, what's wrong with having sex with prostitutes?

Seriously? As a habit? For one, very expensive.

Stuff that's expensive is a sin?

Never said it was a sin. You really want to continue this?

Wait... what would be "bad or sinful" about it if it wasn't a sin? Sinful still means "characterized by committing a sin or sins" right?

 

[Dentist]

I have no real issue with the gays.j

I am sick of the ridiculous amount of media attention they get and the inordinately high numbers of gay parts there are on modern tv shows now.

I feel like it's reached the point where it's almost "cool" to the point where people are going to participate in it that aren't really gay

 

[Zow]

Which shows are you guys watching where there are an inordinate amount of homosexual men? If you're watching bravo then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Statorama]

You guys need to stop hassling Jayrod because he is gay.

That is uncool bullying and I am speaking out against it.

Hah! That's funny - progressives who claim to be for gay rights continue to use the word "gay" to insult to others.

Yes, it is funny. All of you foot tapping wide stancers are very amusing, although repressing your manlust is not very healthy. You should let it out in a wild lube covered frenzy in an airport men's room with Ken Mehlman.

So much anger

 

[Statorama]

Which shows are you guys watching where there are an inordinate amount of homosexual men? If you're watching bravo then you're doing it wrong.

It's probably the media's overall fawning and the amount of attention they give to those roles that gets people confused. I agree with you that there's only a handful of gay roles on television.

 

[igbomb]

Gay rights is the civil rights issue of our era.

There are obviously two camps: gay is a choice and gay is genetic/inborn

Gay is a choice camp can't understand why this would be considered a civil right because being gay is something you chose and should not be a protected class.

Gay is inborn/genetic camp can't understand why civil rights should denied to this class of people.

I can't understand how anybody thinks being gay is a choice.

If you are a religious Jew or Christian, it HAS to be a choice. Otherwise the Bible is in error.

Wrong.

 

[timschochet]

Gay rights is the civil rights issue of our era.

There are obviously two camps: gay is a choice and gay is genetic/inborn

Gay is a choice camp can't understand why this would be considered a civil right because being gay is something you chose and should not be a protected class.

Gay is inborn/genetic camp can't understand why civil rights should denied to this class of people.

I can't understand how anybody thinks being gay is a choice.

If you are a religious Jew or Christian, it HAS to be a choice. Otherwise the Bible is in error.

Wrong.

What did I get wrong?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Gay rights is the civil rights issue of our era.

There are obviously two camps: gay is a choice and gay is genetic/inborn

Gay is a choice camp can't understand why this would be considered a civil right because being gay is something you chose and should not be a protected class.

Gay is inborn/genetic camp can't understand why civil rights should denied to this class of people.

I can't understand how anybody thinks being gay is a choice.

If you are a religious Jew or Christian, it HAS to be a choice. Otherwise the Bible is in error.

Wrong.

What did I get wrong?

I would guess it's something like this: Homosexual acts are a sin. You can be born predisposed to commit sins but it's still on you if you go through with them. "Being gay" doesn't have to be a choice; "doing gay stuff" is a choice.

 

[jon_mx]

Why can't people accept human sexuality for what it is.....a behavior that is effected by biology, environment and genetic factors which is different for every individual. Some are probably very heavily influenced by genetics. Others are very heavily influenced by environmental factors. My gay brother-in-law's new boyfriend was married for over a dozen years, but had a bi-polar abusive wife and became afraid of women. My brother-in-law also was straight until after college. A person's sexuality is a moving target and desires can change over time, including being influenced by pron.

 

[Zow]

Why can't people accept human sexuality for what it is.....a behavior that is effected by biology, environment and genetic factors which is different for every individual. Some are probably very heavily influenced by genetics. Others are very heavily influenced by environmental factors. My gay brother-in-law's new boyfriend was married for over a dozen years, but had a bi-polar abusive wife and became afraid of women. My brother-in-law also was straight until after college. A person's sexuality is a moving target and desires can change over time, including being influenced by pron.

Sure he was.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

My gay brother-in-law's new boyfriend was married for over a dozen years, but had a bi-polar abusive wife and became afraid of women.

So naturally he's now attracted to penises.

 

[rct]

Why can't people accept human sexuality for what it is.....a behavior that is effected by biology, environment and genetic factors which is different for every individual. Some are probably very heavily influenced by genetics. Others are very heavily influenced by environmental factors. My gay brother-in-law's new boyfriend was married for over a dozen years, but had a bi-polar abusive wife and became afraid of women. My brother-in-law also was straight until after college. A person's sexuality is a moving target and desires can change over time, including being influenced by pron.

Wrong_mx indeed on just about everything you said. And your BIL was a closet case who didn't admit he was gay until after college. No statistical prove anywhere that sexuality is a changeable moving target and zero proof that porn can turn someone gay.

 

[Jewell]

No statistical prove anywhere that sexuality is a changeable moving target

Understanding females sexual fluidityhttp://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/

Actress Cynthia Nixon made headlines recently when she said during an interview that she chooses to be a lesbian.

Ive been straight and Ive been gay, and gay is better, she said. For me, it is a choice.

As you might expect, her comments published in a New York Times Magazine profile set off a firestorm of controversy, with gay activists and others worrying that Nixons words would give credence to those who claim that being gay is a conscious decision, not a genetic certainty.

(She later clarified that she identifies most closely as a bisexual, which, she says, is a fact, not a choice.)

But, divisive wording aside, there may be something to Nixons remarks. The actress, who was once in a long-term relationship with a man and who is now engaged to a woman, appears to be an example of what scientists are now terming sexual fluidity. In other words, she may be attracted to a specific person rather than a particular gender.

Its a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively. In her 2008 book, Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Womens Love and Desire, she writes that womens sexuality appears to be much more fluid than mens, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive

Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other

Attraction to the person, not the gender

Research seems to support the idea that some women are able to move between relationships with both genders without blinking an eye and that labels matter little. In a 2008 study, Diamond followed 70 lesbian, bisexual, and unlabeled women over the course of 10 years.

During that decade, two-thirds of the women changed their initial identity labels, and one-third of these changed labels at least twice. And although conventional wisdom suggests that more women would transition out of the bisexual and unlabeled groups and into the more standard groups of heterosexuality or homosexuality, this was not the case.

As Diamond writes, More women adopted bisexual/unlabeled identities than relinquished these identities; few bisexual/unlabeled women ended up identifying as lesbian or heterosexual. Overall, the most commonly adopted identity was unlabeled.

Why Women Are More Likely to Be Bisexual

http://m.livescience.com/37834-women-sexuality-and-alloparenting.html

Women's sexual fluidity may have evolved to help women pair up to rear kids when men were absent, new research suggests

Women may be more "hetero-flexible," or be primarily attracted to men with some same sex attraction, because same-sex behavior allowed women to raise their children with other women, a new study has proposed.

The hypothesis, published this April in the journal Evolutionary Psychology, suggests that more fluid female sexuality may have evolved because it benefited women's offspring. Some women who were raped or fathered children with absentee or deceased dads formed sexual relationships with other women, which may have made it easier to raise children together, according to the theory.

"Being born with the ability to [be attracted to men and women] may have been beneficial to ancestral women," said study co-author Barry X. Kuhle, a psychologist at the University of Scranton in Pennsylvania. [5 Myths About Polyamory Debunked]

Not everyone agrees with Kuhle's hypothesis, pointing to the lack of evidence to support it and suggesting perhaps women's more fluid sexual boundaries may just be a byproduct of some other evolutionary change. There may be no evolutionary reason for the hetero-flexibility, they say.

More fluid

Several studies have shown that women are much more likely than men to report attraction to and physical contact with same-sex partners. Women also show similar genital arousal when viewing images of both sexes in erotic situations.

But exactly why has been a puzzle. Researchers have proposed that women's sexual fluidity enabled women to bond with sister wives in polygamous marriages. Still others have argued that it's a byproduct of the fact that women have weaker sex drives that are therefore easier to channel to different objects of attraction, Kuhle wrote in the paper.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yes, lots of bi-sexual girls. If you went to college, you likely found that out the fun way.

 

[Scoresman]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

 

[mr roboto]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

Great point. I think that people assume that they have to believe its an inherent genetic characteristic to argue the civil rights angle (like skin color). Yet religion is a protected class too and that's a choice.

 

[the moops]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

If you are not born that way, and it is a choice, it is far easier for folks to try and deny you protections and label you a deviant.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

 

[Ilov80s]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

It makes no difference to me. I have met people that were pretty obviously gay most of their lives and were likely born that way. I have met others that it wasn't so clear and that their choice in lifestyle seemed to be a preference more than some genetic disposition. It doesn't really make a difference to the overall argument IMO. Life can be so cruel, let adults strive to develop the personal relationships that they think will bring them the joy and comfort needed to find happiness and peace in their lives.

 

[rct]

No statistical prove anywhere that sexuality is a changeable moving target

Understanding females sexual fluidity

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/

Actress Cynthia Nixon made headlines recently when she said during an interview that she chooses to be a lesbian.

Ive been straight and Ive been gay, and gay is better, she said. For me, it is a choice.

As you might expect, her comments published in a New York Times Magazine profile set off a firestorm of controversy, with gay activists and others worrying that Nixons words would give credence to those who claim that being gay is a conscious decision, not a genetic certainty.

(She later clarified that she identifies most closely as a bisexual, which, she says, is a fact, not a choice.)

But, divisive wording aside, there may be something to Nixons remarks. The actress, who was once in a long-term relationship with a man and who is now engaged to a woman, appears to be an example of what scientists are now terming sexual fluidity. In other words, she may be attracted to a specific person rather than a particular gender.

Its a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively. In her 2008 book, Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Womens Love and Desire, she writes that womens sexuality appears to be much more fluid than mens, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive

Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other

Attraction to the person, not the gender

Research seems to support the idea that some women are able to move between relationships with both genders without blinking an eye and that labels matter little. In a 2008 study, Diamond followed 70 lesbian, bisexual, and unlabeled women over the course of 10 years.

During that decade, two-thirds of the women changed their initial identity labels, and one-third of these changed labels at least twice. And although conventional wisdom suggests that more women would transition out of the bisexual and unlabeled groups and into the more standard groups of heterosexuality or homosexuality, this was not the case.

As Diamond writes, More women adopted bisexual/unlabeled identities than relinquished these identities; few bisexual/unlabeled women ended up identifying as lesbian or heterosexual. Overall, the most commonly adopted identity was unlabeled.

Why Women Are More Likely to Be Bisexual

http://m.livescience.com/37834-women-sexuality-and-alloparenting.html

Women's sexual fluidity may have evolved to help women pair up to rear kids when men were absent, new research suggests

Women may be more "hetero-flexible," or be primarily attracted to men with some same sex attraction, because same-sex behavior allowed women to raise their children with other women, a new study has proposed.

The hypothesis, published this April in the journal Evolutionary Psychology, suggests that more fluid female sexuality may have evolved because it benefited women's offspring. Some women who were raped or fathered children with absentee or deceased dads formed sexual relationships with other women, which may have made it easier to raise children together, according to the theory.

"Being born with the ability to [be attracted to men and women] may have been beneficial to ancestral women," said study co-author Barry X. Kuhle, a psychologist at the University of Scranton in Pennsylvania. [5 Myths About Polyamory Debunked]

Not everyone agrees with Kuhle's hypothesis, pointing to the lack of evidence to support it and suggesting perhaps women's more fluid sexual boundaries may just be a byproduct of some other evolutionary change. There may be no evolutionary reason for the hetero-flexibility, they say.

More fluid

Several studies have shown that women are much more likely than men to report attraction to and physical contact with same-sex partners. Women also show similar genital arousal when viewing images of both sexes in erotic situations.

But exactly why has been anew research suggests puzzle. Researchers have proposed that women's sexual fluidity enabled women to bond with sister wives in polygamous marriages. Still others have argued that it's a byproduct of the fact that women have weaker sex drives that are therefore easier to channel to different objects of attraction, Kuhle wrote in the paper.

What you linked to is hardly conclusive proof. And second link even says "new research suggests"

 

[Ilov80s]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

If you are not born that way, and it is a choice, it is far easier for folks to try and deny you protections and label you a deviant.

It is also a choice to accept those that are different or to obstruct their path in life.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

In my experience, the religious folks usually equate "being homosexual" with "practicing homosexual behavior" while pro-gay-rights folks consider "being homosexual" or "bisexual" to be solely an issue of attraction, further muddying the discussion. Most religious folks I've run into really mean they don't care if you're attracted to dudes, but that the sin is to act on it when they condemn "homosexuality."

 

[Zow]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

In my experience, the religious folks usually equate "being homosexual" with "practicing homosexual behavior" while pro-gay-rights folks consider "being homosexual" or "bisexual" to be solely an issue of attraction, further muddying the discussion. Most religious folks I've run into really mean they don't care if you're attracted to dudes, but that the sin is to act on it when they condemn "homosexuality."

For what it is worth, this is the take of the Benedictine Order of catholic monks as well. To them, celibacy is all that matters and being attracted to men but controlling that attraction is no different than controlling the desire to lie about being sick to skip work or skip church or whatever.

Needless to say the previous Pope's stance was a large disappointment to the more "liberal" catholic groups.

 

[mr roboto]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

In my experience, the religious folks usually equate "being homosexual" with "practicing homosexual behavior" while pro-gay-rights folks consider "being homosexual" or "bisexual" to be solely an issue of attraction, further muddying the discussion. Most religious folks I've run into really mean they don't care if you're attracted to dudes, but that the sin is to act on it when they condemn "homosexuality."

Basically this. It's the action that is sinful from a Christian biblical perspective. We all have propensities to desire to act in ways contrary to what God has said. Having said that, I don't believe homosexual attraction is a choice mostly. And in a free society, I don't project 'sin' as 'illegal' unless a non-religious argument can be made.

 

[Zow]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

Great point. I think that people assume that they have to believe its an inherent genetic characteristic to argue the civil rights angle (like skin color). Yet religion is a protected class too and that's a choice.

But it's not afforded nearly the same protections as race or gender. The GLBT proponents would be best served legally to take the position that sexuality is immutable.

 

[Zow]

Yes, lots of bi-sexual girls. If you went to college, you likely found that out the fun way.

As a now married guy, I kick myself on a regular basis for turning down the few realistic opportunities I had for some of this action.

 

[mr roboto]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

Great point. I think that people assume that they have to believe its an inherent genetic characteristic to argue the civil rights angle (like skin color). Yet religion is a protected class too and that's a choice.

But it's not afforded nearly the same protections as race or gender. The GLBT proponents would be best served legally to take the position that sexuality is immutable.

Is immutability central to the argument for same sex marriage?

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

In my experience, the religious folks usually equate "being homosexual" with "practicing homosexual behavior" while pro-gay-rights folks consider "being homosexual" or "bisexual" to be solely an issue of attraction, further muddying the discussion. Most religious folks I've run into really mean they don't care if you're attracted to dudes, but that the sin is to act on it when they condemn "homosexuality."

Basically this. It's the action that is sinful from a Christian biblical perspective. We all have propensities to desire to act in ways contrary to what God has said. Having said that, I don't believe homosexual attraction is a choice mostly. And in a free society, I don't project 'sin' as 'illegal' unless a non-religious argument can be made.

Right. We on the "gay rights" side consider someone a homosexual or bisexual in the way we consider them an African American or a believer in conspiracy theories. It's a state of being that you can't simply choose to be otherwise, whether or not you're "acting" in a particular way. However, the other side tends to consider a "homosexual" in the category of "thief" - only the behavior makes you so.

 

[Jewell]

No statistical prove anywhere that sexuality is a changeable moving target

Understanding females sexual fluidity

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/

Actress Cynthia Nixon made headlines recently when she said during an interview that she chooses to be a lesbian.

Ive been straight and Ive been gay, and gay is better, she said. For me, it is a choice.

As you might expect, her comments published in a New York Times Magazine profile set off a firestorm of controversy, with gay activists and others worrying that Nixons words would give credence to those who claim that being gay is a conscious decision, not a genetic certainty.

(She later clarified that she identifies most closely as a bisexual, which, she says, is a fact, not a choice.)

But, divisive wording aside, there may be something to Nixons remarks. The actress, who was once in a long-term relationship with a man and who is now engaged to a woman, appears to be an example of what scientists are now terming sexual fluidity. In other words, she may be attracted to a specific person rather than a particular gender.

Its a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively. In her 2008 book, Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Womens Love and Desire, she writes that womens sexuality appears to be much more fluid than mens, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive

Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other

Attraction to the person, not the gender

Research seems to support the idea that some women are able to move between relationships with both genders without blinking an eye and that labels matter little. In a 2008 study, Diamond followed 70 lesbian, bisexual, and unlabeled women over the course of 10 years.

During that decade, two-thirds of the women changed their initial identity labels, and one-third of these changed labels at least twice. And although conventional wisdom suggests that more women would transition out of the bisexual and unlabeled groups and into the more standard groups of heterosexuality or homosexuality, this was not the case.

As Diamond writes, More women adopted bisexual/unlabeled identities than relinquished these identities; few bisexual/unlabeled women ended up identifying as lesbian or heterosexual. Overall, the most commonly adopted identity was unlabeled.

Why Women Are More Likely to Be Bisexual

http://m.livescience.com/37834-women-sexuality-and-alloparenting.html

Women's sexual fluidity may have evolved to help women pair up to rear kids when men were absent, new research suggests

Women may be more "hetero-flexible," or be primarily attracted to men with some same sex attraction, because same-sex behavior allowed women to raise their children with other women, a new study has proposed.

The hypothesis, published this April in the journal Evolutionary Psychology, suggests that more fluid female sexuality may have evolved because it benefited women's offspring. Some women who were raped or fathered children with absentee or deceased dads formed sexual relationships with other women, which may have made it easier to raise children together, according to the theory.

"Being born with the ability to [be attracted to men and women] may have been beneficial to ancestral women," said study co-author Barry X. Kuhle, a psychologist at the University of Scranton in Pennsylvania. [5 Myths About Polyamory Debunked]

Not everyone agrees with Kuhle's hypothesis, pointing to the lack of evidence to support it and suggesting perhaps women's more fluid sexual boundaries may just be a byproduct of some other evolutionary change. There may be no evolutionary reason for the hetero-flexibility, they say.

More fluid

Several studies have shown that women are much more likely than men to report attraction to and physical contact with same-sex partners. Women also show similar genital arousal when viewing images of both sexes in erotic situations.

But exactly why has been anew research suggests puzzle. Researchers have proposed that women's sexual fluidity enabled women to bond with sister wives in polygamous marriages. Still others have argued that it's a byproduct of the fact that women have weaker sex drives that are therefore easier to channel to different objects of attraction, Kuhle wrote in the paper.

What you linked to is hardly conclusive proof. And second link even says "new research suggests"

But you suggested that there is "no statistical prove [sic] anywhere that sexuality is a changing moving target".

The first article provides a study's statistical findings which support that sexuality can be a changing moving target.

The "new research suggests" phrase in the second article regards a new theory as to why female sexual fluidity exists. The article then goes on to suggest that other scientists may disagree with the theory as to why women are more sexually fluid then men, but the article also suggests that other researchers have also found or agree that women are more sexually fluid.

 

[fatness]

Question for the religionguys: is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Or only if you act on it? Full on sex? How about kissing? Where is the line drawn?

In my experience, the religious folks usually equate "being homosexual" with "practicing homosexual behavior" while pro-gay-rights folks consider "being homosexual" or "bisexual" to be solely an issue of attraction, further muddying the discussion. Most religious folks I've run into really mean they don't care if you're attracted to dudes, but that the sin is to act on it when they condemn "homosexuality."

I wonder if those religious folks would believe in their religion without acting on it.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yes, lots of bi-sexual girls. If you went to college, you likely found that out the fun way.

As a now married guy, I kick myself on a regular basis for turning down the few realistic opportunities I had for some of this action.

Why did we get married again?

 

[Disco Stu]

Question for the guys in here who are fed up with the overly-flamboyant gay guys? I've seen this comment from a few people - they're sick of the overly-out-in-the-open flamboyant gay guys.

How many of these people do you actually know? How many do you deal with regularly?

I can honestly say I don't know any really overly-flamboyant gay men. Can you tell that my gay friends are gay by talking to them? For the most part, yes. Are they Carson Kressley wannabes? Definitely not. Not even close.

This is a great question, unfortunately I can't answer it. I can answer something similar - I hate the flamboyant hetero men. "I banged 5 chicks this weekend!". "Had a 3-way with twins last night." Real Disco Stu types. Yeah, hated that guy with all his "the hot Asianed women throgh themselves at me." Don't get me wrong, I masturbated to his posts like everybody else but it was an angry session. Guy was just full of himself. But we all got the last laugh, didn't we? Welcome to hell sucker - pounding that single ###### for eternity like the rest of us.

 

[Zow]

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not you're born gay has no relevance? People should be afforded the same rights regardless.

Great point. I think that people assume that they have to believe its an inherent genetic characteristic to argue the civil rights angle (like skin color). Yet religion is a protected class too and that's a choice.

But it's not afforded nearly the same protections as race or gender. The GLBT proponents would be best served legally to take the position that sexuality is immutable.

Is immutability central to the argument for same sex marriage?

I don't know about central since I'm not a Harvard Law grad from the '70s, but if you're making an Equal Protection Clause argument I think it'd be wise to include it as a position.

 

[Zow]

Yes, lots of bi-sexual girls. If you went to college, you likely found that out the fun way.

As a now married guy, I kick myself on a regular basis for turning down the few realistic opportunities I had for some of this action.

Why did we get married again?

Something about love and companionship and family.

 

[LinusMarr]

I voted #4

I really dont care if gays can be married or not. I am getting sick of it being crammed down my throat on every show i seem to watch. Its apparently against the law to have a show on the air that doesnt have a gay person. I do get a kick out of all the whining the straight, white liberals do concerning this issue tho.