Your top five players if you were starting a team today (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

Fine, fine... Keep Mayfield AND Mahomes.

I'll take Watson then - who is actually three days YOUNGER than Mahomes.

 

[JuniorNB]

You've said many times that Baker has a lot of talent surrounding him which shows you don't now his team or what he's had to overcome.

He put up historically high stats heading into a home playoff game where he had the crowd on his side.  I did not expect zero points in the first half.

Trust me I was rootin' for him and KC but I thought he looked like a young QB caught up in and overcome by the moment and say what you will about his great comeback that fell short but he had a playoff team and he had Andy Reid and he had the home field advantage.  

People don't give Baker 'credit' for coming up short against Houston on the road where he threw for over 350 yards in the second half but fell short or when he fell short against Baltimore heading for the game winning FG but fell short, either of which would have guaranteed the first non-losing season for Cleveland since 2007, over a DECADE AGO.

Oh yeah, both of Baker's 'failed' comebacks were on the road not at home.

I've said many times that Mayfield has yet to play in a single big game.  And you can't refute that. So you're going in a million other directions. 

 

[MAC_32]

I am surprised that nobody has gone with 5 lineman.  I would go with the top 2 tackles and center (I am not an expert on O-Line so I am not sure who those would be) with the best combination of age and salary and fill out the last two spots with Donald and Mack for half of my DL.  This game is won and lost in the trenches and I would build from there. 

You don't need great individual OL's in today's game.  You just need to avoid guys like Ereck Flowers.  Would some great OL help?  Sure, but it isn't a top priority.  And we're only given 5 selections.

 

[MAC_32]

It's interesting to see how many people get sucked (my opinion) into shiny offensive things.  It's been shown time and time again that you win with a good oline and a good defense and a good qb...that being said

I think forcing defenses to consistently commit two players to stopping one is more valuable than a top OL.  The demand for quality OL is > the supply of them, but you just need to avoid having a weak link on your line.  You don't need to be dominant anywhere on it.

 

[kface]

I think forcing defenses to consistently commit two players to stopping one is more valuable than a top OL.  The demand for quality OL is > the supply of them, but you just need to avoid having a weak link on your line.  You don't need to be dominant anywhere on it.

I don't see that formula working for anyone really.  Come playoff time its a battle in the trenches

the final four teams had pretty much nobody's a rb. (and i realize that michel will probably be good, and that kamara is good but they are both very cheap and kamara was even taken in the third round).  why any team would lock up 12-15-20 million a year (which is what saquan will cost) is beyond me...

 

[fightingillini]

I am surprised that nobody has gone with 5 lineman.  I would go with the top 2 tackles and center (I am not an expert on O-Line so I am not sure who those would be) with the best combination of age and salary and fill out the last two spots with Donald and Mack for half of my DL.  This game is won and lost in the trenches and I would build from there. 

I like your thought process here.

Except I would take  Nelson at OG, Donald and Mack on the DL, Mahomes and Barkley.   I can't pass up on two offensive generational talents. 

 

[-OZ-]

I don't see that formula working for anyone really.  Come playoff time its a battle in the trenches

the final four teams had pretty much nobody's a rb. (and i realize that michel will probably be good, and that kamara is good but they are both very cheap and kamara was even taken in the third round).  why any team would lock up 12-15-20 million a year (which is what saquan will cost) is beyond me...

Probably, in 2023. But for the next 3 years at least (plus option) he's a bargain for what he does.

FWIW the Chief's were really the only final 4 team with a "nobody" at RB. 

 

[MAC_32]

I don't see that formula working for anyone really.  Come playoff time its a battle in the trenches

the final four teams had pretty much nobody's a rb. (and i realize that michel will probably be good, and that kamara is good but they are both very cheap and kamara was even taken in the third round).  why any team would lock up 12-15-20 million a year (which is what saquan will cost) is beyond me...

I should have clarified - I'm referring to WR/TE.  Even the best RB's just aren't that valuable.  I don't know when I would add my first or second one, but I'm sure both of them would be substantially after most others.  Not sure how quickly I'd be looking to replace them, but sooner rather than later.

 

[Pipes]

Baker Mayfield

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Quenton Nelson

Chris Jones (KC)

Derwin James

Good list though I'd swap out Mahomes for Baker but I can see the argument. 

 

[travdogg]

I don't see that formula working for anyone really.  Come playoff time its a battle in the trenches

the final four teams had pretty much nobody's a rb. (and i realize that michel will probably be good, and that kamara is good but they are both very cheap and kamara was even taken in the third round).  why any team would lock up 12-15-20 million a year (which is what saquan will cost) is beyond me...

The bolded couldn't be further from the truth.

Todd Gurley is the highest paid RB in the NFL,  just because he didn't factor in much Sunday, doesn't take away from the fact that he was a big part of the Rams success each of the last 2 years.  Kamara is almost certainly going to get a huge extension next off season. I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up with a top-3 contract, which is more than Barkley will make for a couple years.

If your argument is only big money guys count as somebodies, then I guess that makes Mahomes and Goff nobodies too.

I actually don't disagree with you that RB is more of a luxury than a need, but the final 4 teams were all pretty well stocked at the position except for maybe KC, who were when the season started.

 

[kface]

Probably, in 2023. But for the next 3 years at least (plus option) he's a bargain for what he does.

FWIW the Chief's were really the only final 4 team with a "nobody" at RB. 

well to be fair CJ Anderson got a ton of carries for the rams

ne is really michel/white/burkhead (who got all the late game carries)

Kamara is a third round pick

and those teams just show you are better off just drafting a rookie rb and riding them for 4 years and repeating the process.

 

[kface]

The bolded couldn't be further from the truth.

Todd Gurley is the highest paid RB in the NFL,  just because he didn't factor in much Sunday, doesn't take away from the fact that he was a big part of the Rams success each of the last 2 years.  Kamara is almost certainly going to get a huge extension next off season. I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up with a top-3 contract, which is more than Barkley will make for a couple years.

If your argument is only big money guys count as somebodies, then I guess that makes Mahomes and Goff nobodies too.

I actually don't disagree with you that RB is more of a luxury than a need, but the final 4 teams were all pretty well stocked at the position except for maybe KC, who were when the season started.

Your point about the rams just amplifies my own point...they went with a nobody over Gurley.  The guy was cut three times this year and he is arguably running just as good as gurley.  When it's gurley's turn is he going to be worth 20million or do you just draft a rookie.

The patriots have found the formula.  I don't know why everyone else doesn't follow

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

You guys are aware that Mahomes has lost every single big game of his NFL career? 

 

[JuniorNB]

Your point about the rams just amplifies my own point...they went with a nobody over Gurley.  The guy was cut three times this year and he is arguably running just as good as gurley.  When it's gurley's turn is he going to be worth 20million or do you just draft a rookie.

The patriots have found the formula.  I don't know why everyone else doesn't follow

The Patriots have another huge advantage in the fact that they have had a top 3 NFL quarterback for 15 years who happens to make a ton of money in endorsements and is married to someone with even more worth than his so he's willing to play for about 10 million dollars a year less than his talents would demand on the free market.  I think he currently makes 15 million/per.  Not quite rookie-deal territory, but a HUGE salary cap advantage for New England.

 

[kface]

The Patriots have another huge advantage in the fact that they have had a top 3 NFL quarterback for 15 years who happens to make a ton of money in endorsements and is married to someone with even more worth than his so he's willing to play for about 10 million dollars a year less than his talents would demand on the free market.  I think he currently makes 15 million/per.  Not quite rookie-deal territory, but a HUGE salary cap advantage for New England.

don't kid yourself that a good successful system helps convince him to take less as well

Would i take less as aaron rodgers to play behind a sieve oline and get hit every play...probably not

 

[Short Corner]

I was referring to the 1st half where he didn't put up any points and dug a hole that he couldn't get out of.  Looked like a case of the yips.

You are aware that he gave them the lead in the 4th quarter, right?

 

[pbandy1]

I know this isn't really from the list in your original post, but....

1. Mahomes or Watson. I would like to see Watson with a freaking offensive line.

2. Aaron Donald

3. Eddie Jackson

4. Myles Garrett (purely based on his age)

5. George Kittle

6. Cody Parkey

 

[Bracie Smathers]

is surrounded by a ton of young talent. I would move him into my top 5 young QB prospects if he takes the next step and gets them to the playoffs. Plays well in a big game or two.

--------

I've said many times that Mayfield has yet to play in a single big game.  And you can't refute that. So you're going in a million other directions. 

You have said this in this thread and many times in the Baker Mayfield thread and it is false.

I don't care about your other point that is so weak that is isn't worth responding to.  

A guy who takes over an 0-16 team hasn't played in a playoff game?  Shocking, no wonder the guy who trolled the Baker Mayfield thread would take five other QBs to build a franchise.  

 

[IHEARTFF]

If NFL teams were redrafting the whole league, at least 10 QBs would go before anyone else. Then probably Donald and a few other dominant d line guys then maybe a few skill players and tackles. Would be interesting to do a draft like that on here. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

You are aware that he gave them the lead in the 4th quarter, right?

Yeah and I saw the first half where he did nothing in a pressure packed game.  I understand THAT is how SOMEONE (not you)  judges franchise building QBs.  He claims that is the only way to judge them.

I love Mahomes, he is definitely not outside of my top-five franchise building QBs.  He is #2 on my list.  I prefer Baker Mayfield.  

 

[Ilov80s]

I am surprised that nobody has gone with 5 lineman.  I would go with the top 2 tackles and center (I am not an expert on O-Line so I am not sure who those would be) with the best combination of age and salary and fill out the last two spots with Donald and Mack for half of my DL.  This game is won and lost in the trenches and I would build from there. 

If the right players were there, I would consider Mahomes and 4 OL.

 

[JuniorNB]

You have said this in this thread and many times in the Baker Mayfield thread and it is false.

I don't care about your other point that is so weak that is isn't worth responding to.  

A guy who takes over an 0-16 team hasn't played in a playoff game?  Shocking, no wonder the guy who trolled the Baker Mayfield thread would take five other QBs to build a franchise.  

If you had a better grasp on English, you'd realize that I stated several times that not seeing Mayfield under pressure in a big game wasn't a knock on him, just a factor in why I wouldn't consider him over other guys who have played in more than just their rookie year.  I need to see more. He has neither a great statistical season nor a winning one. I also said I would take him sixth. Sorry if I don't consider him a hall of famer yet  

 

[JuniorNB]

If NFL teams were redrafting the whole league, at least 10 QBs would go before anyone else. Then probably Donald and a few other dominant d line guys then maybe a few skill players and tackles. Would be interesting to do a draft like that on here. 

Exactly. People didn't really understand what I was asking, but it still providing good conversation.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If you had a better grasp on English, you'd realize that I stated several times that not seeing Mayfield under pressure in a big game wasn't a knock on him, just a factor in why I wouldn't consider him over other guys who have played in more than just their rookie year.  I need to see more. He has neither a great statistical season nor a winning one. I also said I would take him sixth. Sorry if I don't consider him a hall of famer yet  

Volley to serve.

If you had a better grasp on logic you would realize what you say is weak.

You changed your argument from Baker being surrounded by a TON of talent to this weak point.  Your first point is false and your only other point is weak.

 

[JuniorNB]

Volley to serve.

If you had a better grasp on logic you would realize what you say is weak.

You changed your argument from Baker being surrounded by a TON of talent to this weak point.  Your first point is false and your only other point is weak.

I hope that someday someone looks at me the way you look at Mayfield. In the meantime, I need to see more than helping other talented young players turn a terrible team into a competitive, yet still under .500, one.  Also, in a league of 32 starting QBS, I have him at #6 of guys I'd start a franchise with.  The fact that you want to fight with me because you need me to have him higher is a little weird. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Gillette wants me to ask you guys to stop.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I hope that someday someone looks at me the way you look at Mayfield. In the meantime, I need to see more than helping other talented young players turn a terrible team into a competitive, yet still under .500, one.  Also, in a league of 32 starting QBS, I have him at #6 of guys I'd start a franchise with.  The fact that you want to fight with me because you need me to have him higher is a little weird. 

Saquon hasn't played in a single pressure packed game.  Saquon is in a league with 32 other starting RBs and yet he still is on a team under .500 and they aren't competitive.

You have him ranked high.  Weird.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Gillette wants me to ask you guys to stop.

Not joking, why don't you start a mock.  No one has and their isn't much happening.

 

[Jayded]

1. Patrick Mahomes (QB) - I like a lot of the younger QBs, but he just seems to have a next level "it" factor that goes beyond his already great play
   
2. Quenton Nelson (G) - Young, angry anchor to what would need to be a solid line starting a franchise
   
3. Aaron Donald (DT) - Anchor to the other side of the trench
   
4. Derwin James (S) - I want a solid front and back to my defense
   
5. Darius Leonard (LB) - QB of the defense and giving a top 5 pick at each layer of the defense
   

My top four felt pretty easy to me and the last slot could have easily had another OL (Mike McGlinchey), CB (Kyle Fuller), or a WR weapon (DeAndre Hopkins).

 

[JuniorNB]

Saquon hasn't played in a single pressure packed game.  Saquon is in a league with 32 other starting RBs and yet he still is on a team under .500 and they aren't competitive.

You have him ranked high.  Weird.  

He's not in my top five either.  You're trying too hard.

 

[-OZ-]

You guys are aware that Mahomes has lost every single big game of his NFL career? 

If NFL teams were redrafting the whole league, at least 10 QBs would go before anyone else. Then probably Donald and a few other dominant d line guys then maybe a few skill players and tackles. Would be interesting to do a draft like that on here. 

Not joking, why don't you start a mock.  No one has and their isn't much happening.

We've done this before. But it has been a few years.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

Lets fire up a 32 team NFL startup.

22 rounds

11 offense 

11 defense

 

[Gally]

I’m going to do it as if I could choose any 5 players any position. 

5. Eddie Jackson: There are some good young NFL safeties and I considered James and Adams but in the end I want a playmaker on defense. Eddie Jackson has shown an Ed Reed like nose for creating and opporturnizing on turnovers over his first two seasons. This gives me a guy on the front end and back end of the D who can impact the pass. 

I would guess that if you put Derwin James on the Bears he would outperform Jackson.  Both are good but I think James is better by quite a bit. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I would guess that if you put Derwin James on the Bears he would outperform Jackson.  Both are good but I think James is better by quite a bit. 

James has a different game. Derwin is a better pass rusher. I think Jackson has THE NOSE. 

 

[travdogg]

Your point about the rams just amplifies my own point...they went with a nobody over Gurley.  The guy was cut three times this year and he is arguably running just as good as gurley.  When it's gurley's turn is he going to be worth 20million or do you just draft a rookie.

The patriots have found the formula.  I don't know why everyone else doesn't follow

You are arguing a point I wasn't arguing against. You said none of the final 4 teams had anybody at RB, I pointed out the Rams have the highest paid RB in the NFL. I agree RB's are somewhat unimportant, I think pretty much everyone does. I was just pointing out that the Rams are in the Super Bowl with the NFL's highest paid RB, so while its not the ideal way to build a team, you can't argue that it hasn't worked for them, because there they are in the Super Bowl.

Also, they didn't got with a nobody over Gurley, they went with a guy coming off multiple big games, over a a clearly nowhere near 100%(despite what anyone says) Gurley. 

The Patriots have a pretty big investment at RB actually. James White is 17th among RB's in salary, and Michel cost a 1st rounder. They are spending 11.1 million on just RB's this season. That is much higher than most teams are spending at the position. I don't have time to calculate each team, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't in the top-5.

I have no idea what your last sentence is supposed to mean. The Pats formula is have the best coach/GM/QB of this generation, its not like another team can just do that.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Lets fire up a 32 team NFL startup.

22 rounds

11 offense 

11 defense

In for 1 or more teams if we can plow through it in 4 days or less. Or also in for a slow one as 1 team. 

 

[travdogg]

James has a different game. Derwin is a better pass rusher. I think Jackson has THE NOSE. 

I'd agree with this. As a Bears fan, I'd argue Jackson was the best player on the team this season, yes, even better than Mack. I don't think there was a better DB in the NFL this year. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I'd agree with this. As a Bears fan, I'd argue Jackson was the best player on the team this season, yes, even better than Mack. I don't think there was a better DB in the NFL this year. 

Eddie was all action 

 

[Gally]

You are arguing a point I wasn't arguing against. You said none of the final 4 teams had anybody at RB, I pointed out the Rams have the highest paid RB in the NFL. I agree RB's are somewhat unimportant, I think pretty much everyone does. I was just pointing out that the Rams are in the Super Bowl with the NFL's highest paid RB, so while its not the ideal way to build a team, you can't argue that it hasn't worked for them, because there they are in the Super Bowl.

Also, they didn't got with a nobody over Gurley, they went with a guy coming off multiple big games, over a a clearly nowhere near 100%(despite what anyone says) Gurley. 

The Patriots have a pretty big investment at RB actually. James White is 17th among RB's in salary, and Michel cost a 1st rounder. They are spending 11.1 million on just RB's this season. That is much higher than most teams are spending at the position. I don't have time to calculate each team, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't in the top-5.

I have no idea what your last sentence is supposed to mean. The Pats formula is have the best coach/GM/QB of this generation, its not like another team can just do that.

You also have the Rams with a QB on his rookie contract allowing that money to be spent on RB and the Pats with a QB taking a much less than market value to allow them to spend money elsewhere to help build the team. 

It's all about resources and spreading them around.  If you don't have to spend top dollar on a QB you can afford to splurge on other positions......

 

[-OZ-]

Lets fire up a 32 team NFL startup.

22 rounds

11 offense 

11 defense

No kicker?

 

[grateful zed]

luck

connor

thomas

thielan

kittle

 

[pbandy1]

I would guess that if you put Derwin James on the Bears he would outperform Jackson.  Both are good but I think James is better by quite a bit. 

I went with Jackson because his instincts are unreal and he has game changing plays leading to defensive touchdowns. James is a heavy hitter though, he is up there.

 

[bucksoh]

1. Luck

2. A. Donald

3. J. Bosa

4. K. Mack

5. M. Garrett

The rest of the positions would be easy to replace.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

If you had a better grasp on English, you'd realize that I stated several times that not seeing Mayfield under pressure in a big game wasn't a knock on him, just a factor in why I wouldn't consider him over other guys who have played in more than just their rookie year.  I need to see more. He has neither a great statistical season nor a winning one. I also said I would take him sixth. Sorry if I don't consider him a hall of famer yet  

You keep saying HE had a losing record.  Baker did not have a losing record, he had a .500 record (Tyrod started 2.5 games).  From an 0-16 team, with Hue Jackson as coach for half of it.

He had a better rookie record than Carson Wentz, #2 on your overall list, who actually did have a losing rookie record, with an eventual Super Bowl winning HC instead of Hue, and a much better OL.

I’m not saying Mayfield will necessarily end up better, but your outright dismissiveness of Baker makes no sense given your list.

 

[JuniorNB]

You keep saying HE had a losing record.  Baker did not have a losing record, he had a .500 record (Tyrod started 2.5 games).  From an 0-16 team, with Hue Jackson as coach for half of it.

He had a better rookie record than Carson Wentz, #2 on your overall list, who actually did have a losing rookie record, with an eventual Super Bowl winning HC instead of Hue, and a much better OL.

I’m not saying Mayfield will necessarily end up better, but your outright dismissiveness of Baker makes no sense given your list.

If Wentz had only played his rookie year, I'd have him lower on my list. But he followed with an MVP-type year and 11-2 record.. If Mayfield puts up those kind of numbers in his second season, he'd be much higher if this was redone next year.  Also, saying that Mayfield would be the sixth player I'd take in the entire league is hardly dismissive.  It's recognizing a ton of potential.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You guys are aware that Mahomes has lost every single big game of his NFL career? 

Untrue. 

 

[JuniorNB]

Untrue. 

Exactly. He played in games for the division lead and for playoff seeding and for a bye week. Playoffs aren't the only games with big consequences.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Exactly. He played in games for the division lead and for playoff seeding and for a bye week. Playoffs aren't the only games with big consequences.

Not only that.  He actually has a playoff win.  But I guess that doesn’t constitute as a “big game”.

 

[leave a whisper]

starting a team ..... i think i would go QB ....   so ......

1. Mohomes

2. Mayfield

3. Watson

4. Luck

5. Wilson/ Goff/ Wentz / Garrett/ Bosa(s)/ Mack/ Barkley/ Donald

 

[Ilov80s]

You guys are aware that Mahomes has lost every single big game of his NFL career? 

In his losses this year, Mahomes had a QB rating of 111.4 which would be the 3rd highest of any QB this season behind only himself and Drew Brees.I don't think those losses where the Chiefs offense scored 40, 51, 28, 31 and 31 were Mahomes fault. This also assumes that  at Chargers, at Steelers weren't big games and an NFL playoff game isn't a big game.