Zach Thomas unofficially retired, making him the most likely (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

While we had a long thread on Bruschi in the Pool, I don't see one on Zach Thomas. Objectively, he's the third best MLB of the decade, behind two HOF guys. Thomas' seven Pro Bowls, 7 combined AP All-Pros and 5 first-team AP All-Pros make him a borderline candidate for the HOF. Throw in the levels of success his defenses reached, and I think he's going to make it.

I've got a few more thoughts on him, but I thought I'd see what the SP crowd has to say first.

 

[dapunisher]

The choice of thread titles is, um, interesting.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

While we had a long thread on Bruschi in the Pool, I don't see one on Zach Thomas. Objectively, he's the third best MLB of the decade, behind two HOF guys. Thomas' seven Pro Bowls, 6 combined AP All-Pros and 5 first-team AP All-Pros make him a borderline candidate for the HOF. Throw in the levels of success his defenses reached, and I think he's going to make it.

I've got a few more thoughts on him, but I thought I'd see what the SP crowd has to say first.

dont understand the levels of success comment...?

 

[greenline]

What is the white comment all about?

 

[T Bell]

Great White Hope?

 

[Abstract]

Ummm. Zach Thomas didn't retire.....

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/8/31/10...zach-thomas-not

 

[T Bell]

What is the white comment all about?

Everyone else pales in comparison.

 

[greenline]

Tedy Bruschi is of Filipino and Native American ancestry.

 

[Rovers]

Lame title, Chase. Let's keep it on football, eh?

 

[Green and Gold]

Title fail.

 

[timschochet]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

 

[LHUCKS]

Jesus Chase...

Anyhow, I don't think he gets in...if he does, it will be a last year eligible type of situation.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Didn't realize the thread title would offend people.... Sorry.

While we had a long thread on Bruschi in the Pool, I don't see one on Zach Thomas. Objectively, he's the third best MLB of the decade, behind two HOF guys. Thomas' seven Pro Bowls, 6 combined AP All-Pros and 5 first-team AP All-Pros make him a borderline candidate for the HOF. Throw in the levels of success his defenses reached, and I think he's going to make it.

I've got a few more thoughts on him, but I thought I'd see what the SP crowd has to say first.

dont understand the levels of success comment...?

Five times in his Dolphins career, Miami ranked in the top five in points allowed; six times they ranked in the top five in yards allowed. That's pretty darn good.

 

[LHUCKS]

Putting aside the title:I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Agreed, but I do have a problem with defensive players getting the short end of the stick when it comes to the HOF.

 

[lyon812]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Watering down? You're severely underestimating Thomas. He absolutely deserves to be in.I read an article on this awhile back, and thanks to the power of Google found it again:

http://phinaticism.blogspot.com/2007/07/za...ame-player.html

Quote:

In fact, it's an interesting exercise to compare Thomas to the last middle linebacker to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame - Bears MLB Mike Singletary. Singletary played from 1981-1992 in Chicago where he made 10 Pro Bowls and finished his career with 1488 tackles (885 solo), 51 passes defensed, and 7 interceptions. In comparison, Thomas, who has played in one less season than Singletary and has yet to retire, has recorded 1586 tackles (1195 solo), 63 passes defensed, and 17 interceptions while making 7 Pro Bowls. Judging by those statistics (and much of the Hall of Fame voting is based on statistical production) Thomas has played at a Hall of Fame level.

The article also compares him to Lewis and Urlacher. It's worth a read for anyone who doesn't grasp how productive Thomas was.

 

[LHUCKS]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Watering down? You're severely underestimating Thomas. He absolutely deserves to be in.I read an article on this awhile back, and thanks to the power of Google found it again:

http://phinaticism.blogspot.com/2007/07/za...ame-player.html

Quote:

In fact, it's an interesting exercise to compare Thomas to the last middle linebacker to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame - Bears MLB Mike Singletary. Singletary played from 1981-1992 in Chicago where he made 10 Pro Bowls and finished his career with 1488 tackles (885 solo), 51 passes defensed, and 7 interceptions. In comparison, Thomas, who has played in one less season than Singletary and has yet to retire, has recorded 1586 tackles (1195 solo), 63 passes defensed, and 17 interceptions while making 7 Pro Bowls. Judging by those statistics (and much of the Hall of Fame voting is based on statistical production) Thomas has played at a Hall of Fame level.

The article also compares him to Lewis and Urlacher. It's worth a read for anyone who doesn't grasp how productive Thomas was.

Wow...that definitely makes me second guess my initial instinct....great link.

 

[Jason Wood]

Putting three LBs from a particular era in certainly seems reasonable. Derrick Thomas just got inducted, I think that somewhat re-sets the bar for inclusion among modern defensive players. I think Chase is right to point out that Zach Thomas is a FAR MORE deserving player than Tedy Bruschi.

I was stunned today on PTI, Kornheiser put an 80% chance on Bruschi being inducted while Wilbon (who was on the committee for 10 years) gave him a 35% chance. And Tony K wonders why he's not an NFL announcer anymore.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Putting aside the title:I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

AV	 HOF	1AP  2AP  PB	Name135	lock   6	2	10	Ray Lewis132	yes	8	0	 8	Bill George125	yes	7	1	10	Mike Singletary119	yes	8	1	10	Joe Schmidt115	--	 5	2	 7	Zach Thomas114	yes	6	1	 9	Jack Lambert105	yes	2	2	 5	Sam Huff103	yes	5	2	 8	Nick Buoniconti102	yes	2	3	 1	Ray Nitschke100	no	 1	2	 5	Sam Mills99	 yes	3	1	 8	Willie Lanier98	 no	 2	2	 5	Hardy Nickerson97	 ---	4	0	 6	Brian Urlacher97	 yes	5	1	 8	**** Butkus96	 no	 2	3	 5	Bill Bergey95	 no	 1	1	 5	Lee Roy Jordan94	 yes	0	4	 9	Harry Carson93	 no	 2	3	 7	Randy Gradishar92	 no	 3	1	 6	Karl Mecklenburg90	 no	 2	0	 4	Mike Curtis

People have claimed that MLBs/ILBs have been overrepresented in the HOF, but I think Thomas has a bunch of data that point to him being HOF-worthy relative to other guys at his position.

 

[Raider Nation]

While we had a long thread on Bruschi in the Pool.....

Didn't read a single word of that thread, because had I opened it and saw that the majority thinks he's a HoF'er, my head would have exploded.

 

[TitusIII]

After Lewis, Urlacher, and Brooks(3 studs who lead their teams to the Super Bowl/winning seasons despite offenses best described as, well, bad)...Thomas is next in line, imo. I think he makes the HOF, thanks for the links...

 

[timschochet]

Well, I'll say this, you guys make a pretty good argument... I had no idea his numbers were that dominant.

 

[moondog]

Putting aside the title:I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Excellent post.

 

[Terps2002]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Watering down? You're severely underestimating Thomas. He absolutely deserves to be in.I read an article on this awhile back, and thanks to the power of Google found it again:

http://phinaticism.blogspot.com/2007/07/za...ame-player.html

Quote:

In fact, it's an interesting exercise to compare Thomas to the last middle linebacker to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame - Bears MLB Mike Singletary. Singletary played from 1981-1992 in Chicago where he made 10 Pro Bowls and finished his career with 1488 tackles (885 solo), 51 passes defensed, and 7 interceptions. In comparison, Thomas, who has played in one less season than Singletary and has yet to retire, has recorded 1586 tackles (1195 solo), 63 passes defensed, and 17 interceptions while making 7 Pro Bowls. Judging by those statistics (and much of the Hall of Fame voting is based on statistical production) Thomas has played at a Hall of Fame level.

The article also compares him to Lewis and Urlacher. It's worth a read for anyone who doesn't grasp how productive Thomas was.

The only problem I see with the quote is "and much of the Hall of Fame voting is based on statistical production". That is bull, otherwise why did it take Art Monk umpteen years to get into the HOF, why didn't Michael Irvin get in his first year of eligibility and why isn't Chris Carter already in. HOF voters are like everybody else who watches football, they are opinionated, have there favorites, and players that they do not like they punish accordingly. When it comes down to the SNIFF test I don;t think Thomas makes it, a lot of people who played fantasy know about Miami Maximizing where he could fall within three yards of the ball carrier and get a tackle or at least an assist.

 

[Jason Wood]

After Lewis, Urlacher, and Brooks(3 studs who lead their teams to the Super Bowl/winning seasons despite offenses best described as, well, bad)...Thomas is next in line, imo. I think he makes the HOF, thanks for the links...

Urlacher?

 

[the branded hand]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

Watering down? You're severely underestimating Thomas. He absolutely deserves to be in.I read an article on this awhile back, and thanks to the power of Google found it again:

http://phinaticism.blogspot.com/2007/07/za...ame-player.html

Quote:

In fact, it's an interesting exercise to compare Thomas to the last middle linebacker to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame - Bears MLB Mike Singletary. Singletary played from 1981-1992 in Chicago where he made 10 Pro Bowls and finished his career with 1488 tackles (885 solo), 51 passes defensed, and 7 interceptions. In comparison, Thomas, who has played in one less season than Singletary and has yet to retire, has recorded 1586 tackles (1195 solo), 63 passes defensed, and 17 interceptions while making 7 Pro Bowls. Judging by those statistics (and much of the Hall of Fame voting is based on statistical production) Thomas has played at a Hall of Fame level.

The article also compares him to Lewis and Urlacher. It's worth a read for anyone who doesn't grasp how productive Thomas was.

Wow...that definitely makes me second guess my initial instinct....great link.

I'll second that... great article... check link...

 

[Rovers]

As a die hard Jets fan, I saw Thomas a lot. His numbers only reinforce my thoughts. He is a HoF.

When it comes to LB's, often the big play guys are the who get the headlines get the recognition. Thomas was different... he anchored the Miami D for years, he was the key. Isn't he really the first "undersized" ILB who mad so may big tackles, nevermind the stats to back it up? Aside from big play man Taylor, he WAS the defense.

Bruschi belongs in the NE hall of fame, not Canton. He had a surrounding cast, from Ty Law to Rodney Harrison, probaly the best 3-4 DL to ever play.... What did Thomas have? I suppose one arguement could be there wasn't anyone else to make the tackles, but it doesn't wash. Thomas and blocking him was always at the forefront of any game plan against Miami, yet he still put up those stats.

Now let's talk about Joe Klecko....

 

[ffldrew]

If I compare what I saw on the field with my own eyes - Randy Gradishar was every bit the ILB that Zach Thomas was and more - I'd take Gradishar over Thomas in a heartbeat if I was going to play a game for all the marbles - yet Gradishar is nowhere near the HOF. Too bad they didn't keep track of the stats in an official way back in the 70's.

 

[theglorydays]

As a die hard Jets fan, I saw Thomas a lot. His numbers only reinforce my thoughts. He is a HoF.When it comes to LB's, often the big play guys are the who get the headlines get the recognition. Thomas was different... he anchored the Miami D for years, he was the key. Isn't he really the first "undersized" ILB who mad so may big tackles, nevermind the stats to back it up? Aside from big play man Taylor, he WAS the defense. Bruschi belongs in the NE hall of fame, not Canton. He had a surrounding cast, from Ty Law to Rodney Harrison, probaly the best 3-4 DL to ever play.... What did Thomas have? I suppose one arguement could be there wasn't anyone else to make the tackles, but it doesn't wash. Thomas and blocking him was always at the forefront of any game plan against Miami, yet he still put up those stats.Now let's talk about Joe Klecko....

I'm a bills fan and I agree, Zack Thomas is definetly a hall of famer. But i disagree when you say that Seymour is the best 3-4 defensive end ever, that goes to Bruce Smith. When you look at Smith's numbers, it isn't even close. Just think about what he would have done in a 4-3.Edit: I see that you are saying there defensive line as a whole. Sorry, thought you were saying Seymour was the best 3-4 DE ever. My bad.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Thomas had Madison and Surtain, too. Can't ignore them, Rovers.

I think Urlacher's peak was higher than Thomas', but Thomas may end up having a longer level of stud play.

 

[stevegamer]

Putting aside the title:

I always thought that Zach Thomas was a very good linebacker. I never thought he was the best linebacker. I think there's already way too much watering down of the HOF. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he should get in. Neither should Bruschi. The HOF should be reserved for the very very best.

AV HOF 1AP 2AP PB Name135 lock 6 2 10 Ray Lewis132 yes 8 0 8 Bill George125 yes 7 1 10 Mike Singletary119 yes 8 1 10 Joe Schmidt115 -- 5 2 7 Zach Thomas114 yes 6 1 9 Jack Lambert105 yes 2 2 5 Sam Huff103 yes 5 2 8 Nick Buoniconti102 yes 2 3 1 Ray Nitschke100 no 1 2 5 Sam Mills99 yes 3 1 8 Willie Lanier98 no 2 2 5 Hardy Nickerson97 --- 4 0 6 Brian Urlacher97 yes 5 1 8 **** Butkus96 no 2 3 5 Bill Bergey95 no 1 1 5 Lee Roy Jordan94 yes 0 4 9 Harry Carson93 no 2 3 7 Randy Gradishar92 no 3 1 6 Karl Mecklenburg90 no 2 0 4 Mike CurtisPeople have claimed that MLBs/ILBs have been overrepresented in the HOF,

but I think Thomas has a bunch of data that point to him being HOF-worthy relative to other guys at his position.

People are wrong.

 

[stevegamer]

If I compare what I saw on the field with my own eyes - Randy Gradishar was every bit the ILB that Zach Thomas was and more - I'd take Gradishar over Thomas in a heartbeat if I was going to play a game for all the marbles - yet Gradishar is nowhere near the HOF. Too bad they didn't keep track of the stats in an official way back in the 70's.

Gradishar is one of most, if not the most, deserving guy not in. He should get in, and soon. Gradishar not being in now doesn't mean Thomas doesn't belong in as well. The problem is that the voters are going to elect Drew Bledsoe or Vinny Testaverde or one of those guys because they are a QB. Defenders are under-represented in the hall in general.

 

[Jail]

I'm a dolphin fan, so I'm too biased to say whether or not he is HOF worthy, but I can tell you that he was the heart of every good Miami Defense. One can only imagine what he would have done if he was born in the body of someone like Urlacher or Lewis. Although, maybe it was his shortcomings in that department that made him prepare so intensely.

My guess is if you asked the offensive players on NY and Buffalo that played against both they'd tell you who was a bigger thorn between Thomas and Bruschi. I remember Edge (when Indy was in the East) actually came out and said that the Miami defense wouldn't be much without Thomas.

 

[eddy13]

I'm a dolphin fan, so I'm too biased to say whether or not he is HOF worthy, but I can tell you that he was the heart of every good Miami Defense. One can only imagine what he would have done if he was born in the body of someone like Urlacher or Lewis. Although, maybe it was his shortcomings in that department that made him prepare so intensely. My guess is if you asked the offensive players on NY and Buffalo that played against both they'd tell you who was a bigger thorn between Thomas and Bruschi. I remember Edge (when Indy was in the East) actually came out and said that the Miami defense wouldn't be much without Thomas.

who takes his place.. now mays , or demorrio williams

 

[Tau837]

So there are 19 LBs in the HOF. IMO:

1. Seau, Brooks, and Lewis are all locks and ahead of Thomas.

2. Gradishar should be in already.

3. By the time Thomas is eligible, Urlacher will be viewed as a stronger candidate.

Can Thomas get in if all all of the others make it? I'm not sure about that. If we include the veteran committee route, I suspect so.

 

[Rovers]

Thomas had Madison and Surtain, too. Can't ignore them, Rovers.I think Urlacher's peak was higher than Thomas', but Thomas may end up having a longer level of stud play.

Urlacher ... also had a supporting cast that was better than Zach's. I'm not saying Thomas was on an island, but he spent a good part of his career in a 3-4. He still dominated stats in either defense. What I don't get is why bring Urlacher into this discussion? Is this a sort of Butkus-Nitschke comparison? If it is, I think Thomas is a clear level below them, slightly below Urlacher over a shorter span but with longevity, comes up to a par ranking with Urlacher, and neither is in the class of the aforementioned. There are 32 DL's in the HoF... and only 19 LB's. That is lofty company.Was Zach Thomas better than Nick Bioniconti? I think so. NB is in the hall....

 

[Rovers]

If I compare what I saw on the field with my own eyes - Randy Gradishar was every bit the ILB that Zach Thomas was and more - I'd take Gradishar over Thomas in a heartbeat if I was going to play a game for all the marbles - yet Gradishar is nowhere near the HOF. Too bad they didn't keep track of the stats in an official way back in the 70's.

I agree..... Gradishar is deserving, no doubt at all. So is Joe Klecko.... just ask the guys who played against either one of them.

 

[ffldrew]

Thomas had Madison and Surtain, too. Can't ignore them, Rovers.I think Urlacher's peak was higher than Thomas', but Thomas may end up having a longer level of stud play.

Urlacher ... also had a supporting cast that was better than Zach's. I'm not saying Thomas was on an island, but he spent a good part of his career in a 3-4. He still dominated stats in either defense. What I don't get is why bring Urlacher into this discussion? Is this a sort of Butkus-Nitschke comparison? If it is, I think Thomas is a clear level below them, slightly below Urlacher over a shorter span but with longevity, comes up to a par ranking with Urlacher, and neither is in the class of the aforementioned. There are 32 DL's in the HoF... and only 19 LB's. That is lofty company.Was Zach Thomas better than Nick Bioniconti? I think so. NB is in the hall....

IMO - Nick Buoniconti racked up his bona fides in the AFL and while I loved the AFL and watched it as much or more than NFL games I was surprised he made it to the HOF because the league was not as strong on D ... two NFL guys of that "era" Lee Roy Jordan and Chris Hanburger(one tough mofo) were better IMO (hard to type Leroy Jordan-man I hated the Cowboys) -both of them are on the outside of the HOF - and if NB had to compete for his "All Pro" stats against them and Huff,Butkis, Nitschke etc he wouldn't have the "All Pro" accolades - again my opinion. I think Jordan and Hanburger were both equals to Zach Thomas, although Jordan has the rest of the Dallas D as support, they deserve consideration before ZT - but I'm old school.

 

[5Rings]

Not every good player deserves to be in the HOF. THE HOF is for the greats.

Please stop, very important person.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Hopefully the Dolphins sign him to a 1 day contract so that he can retire a Dolphin.

One of my favorite all time players as a Dolphin fan.

Next stop . . . . . HOF

 

[zed2283]

As usual, Chase and others in here get it wrong. Urlacher won't get in, let alone Thomas.

I will agree though that Thomas is the most likely ILB who retired this week to make the Hall of Fame.

 

[Kirby]

I can't imagine how good he would have been in Lewis, or Urlachers body.

 

[Darth Cheney]

There are people who think that Bruchi should be in the HOF? Wow.

 

[T Bell]

If I compare what I saw on the field with my own eyes - Randy Gradishar was every bit the ILB that Zach Thomas was and more - I'd take Gradishar over Thomas in a heartbeat if I was going to play a game for all the marbles - yet Gradishar is nowhere near the HOF. Too bad they didn't keep track of the stats in an official way back in the 70's.

He was an OLB, but the discussion about LB's who should be in the Hall of Fame should begin with Chris Hanburger:9× Pro Bowl selection (1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976)4× First-team All-Pro selection (1972, 1973, 1975, 1976)2× Second-team All-Pro selection (1969, 1974)How a guy with that resume isn't in the Hall is beyond me.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Thomas had Madison and Surtain, too. Can't ignore them, Rovers.I think Urlacher's peak was higher than Thomas', but Thomas may end up having a longer level of stud play.

Urlacher ... also had a supporting cast that was better than Zach's. I'm not saying Thomas was on an island, but he spent a good part of his career in a 3-4. He still dominated stats in either defense. What I don't get is why bring Urlacher into this discussion? Is this a sort of Butkus-Nitschke comparison? If it is, I think Thomas is a clear level below them, slightly below Urlacher over a shorter span but with longevity, comes up to a par ranking with Urlacher, and neither is in the class of the aforementioned. There are 32 DL's in the HoF... and only 19 LB's. That is lofty company.Was Zach Thomas better than Nick Bioniconti? I think so. NB is in the hall....

Miami's base D was the 4-3 the entire team Thomas was there.

 

[Fiddles]

did he officially retire?

if not you might not want to have a thread title created by a staff member proclaiming he did

 

[Rovers]

Thomas had Madison and Surtain, too. Can't ignore them, Rovers.I think Urlacher's peak was higher than Thomas', but Thomas may end up having a longer level of stud play.

Urlacher ... also had a supporting cast that was better than Zach's. I'm not saying Thomas was on an island, but he spent a good part of his career in a 3-4. He still dominated stats in either defense. What I don't get is why bring Urlacher into this discussion? Is this a sort of Butkus-Nitschke comparison? If it is, I think Thomas is a clear level below them, slightly below Urlacher over a shorter span but with longevity, comes up to a par ranking with Urlacher, and neither is in the class of the aforementioned. There are 32 DL's in the HoF... and only 19 LB's. That is lofty company.Was Zach Thomas better than Nick Bioniconti? I think so. NB is in the hall....

Miami's base D was the 4-3 the entire team Thomas was there.

The way they used Taylor... I'd call what Miami did a hybrid D for part of ZT's career.

 

[switz]

While we had a long thread on Bruschi in the Pool, I don't see one on Zach Thomas. Objectively, he's the third best MLB of the decade, behind two HOF guys. Thomas' seven Pro Bowls, 7 combined AP All-Pros and 5 first-team AP All-Pros make him a borderline candidate for the HOF. Throw in the levels of success his defenses reached, and I think he's going to make it.

I've got a few more thoughts on him, but I thought I'd see what the SP crowd has to say first.

My initial reaction to the thread title was "Zach Thomas... HOF??? What is Chase smoking?"But I didn't realize he had so many accolades... I agree he's a borderline candidate, might make it in, but it woudln't surprise me if he didn't.

 

[switz]

There are people who think that Bruchi should be in the HOF? Wow.

That's what happens when a board gets dominated by Pats fans

 

[Tau837]

There are people who think that Bruchi should be in the HOF? Wow.

That's what happens when a board gets dominated by Pats fans

Well, as someone pointed out, Tony Kornheiser estimated an 80% chance he'll make it on yesterday's PTI show, and Mike Wilbon, who voted on HOF candidates for 10 years, estimated his chances at 35%. I think they are clearly wrong, but they aren't Pats fans and are supposedly knowledgeable about the NFL and other sports.I think that just goes to show that it's not this board being dominated by Pats fans, it's media hype in general for dynasty teams. The Pats are a dynasty and have gotten tremendous media hype this decade. Even supposed experts aren't immune to it.