Zelle'd money to a phone number registered with Zelle. Zelle confirmed recipient's name before money was sent. $3K now gone. (1 Viewer)

[Harry Frogfish]

Trying to get in touch with Zelle has been Helle so I thought I'd try here.

Daughter sends rent to landlord via Zelle app every month, on the day the landlord prompts her for rent, always via Zelle.  There's never been a hiccup since she moved in and in fact they signed a two year extension recently, with no rent increase (rather amazing, in SoCal no less).  So, the landlord loves her and I don't see any funny business as a possibility here, like changing phone numbers or email.

Last month, the landlord did not send the typical Zelle request (ALWAYS on the 28th).  So daughter, being proactive, sent her rent in anyway, through Zelle.  The problem is she sent it to landlord's phone number, not email.  An "investigation" was done by her bank (Chase) and they are claiming it's Zelle's issue.

The problem could be that the landlord does not have her phone number registered with Zelle, only her email.  Her phone number, btw, has not changed at any point since the move in.  And Zelle recognizes her name under that phone number -- they must -- because daughter only sent the money after seeing her landlord's actual name come up under that number.

Curious if anyone here has some solutions or been through this.  My first thought was to tell the landlord to register her number with Zelle, instead of just her email, and maybe the 3K will show up.  However, I googled enough to find that a phone number has to be registered within 14 days of money being sent to receive said money.  So we are back to square one if that's the case, as a month has since passed (because Chase took TWO ten-day investigations) to figure their side out, which is pathetic in its own right.

 

[Runkle]

Zelle has no "undo", consider any money sent through the platform to be "gone"

About a million similar stories on Reddit and the like. I've never heard one resolved favorably. Always "money's just gone" like in a puff of smoke.

 

[Juxtatarot]

What’s happening when you try to contact Zelle?

 

[shuke]

So the money is somewhere, it's not like it went to someone else.  I'd have her contact the local TV news "watchdog" or consumer advocate or whatever they call it there.  They will eat this #### up.

 

[gianmarco]

Zelle has no "undo", consider any money sent through the platform to be "gone"

About a million similar stories on Reddit and the like. I've never heard one resolved favorably. Always "money's just gone" like in a puff of smoke.

That has to be illegal. The money can't just disappear. If Zelle is pocketing this money, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[Capella]

Zelle has no "undo", consider any money sent through the platform to be "gone"

About a million similar stories on Reddit and the like. I've never heard one resolved favorably. Always "money's just gone" like in a puff of smoke.

Wow this is real? That’s crazy. 

 

[Harry Frogfish]

So the money is somewhere, it's not like it went to someone else.  I'd have her contact the local TV news "watchdog" or consumer advocate or whatever they call it there.  They will eat this #### up.

Yeah, I've done similar, where I claimed a family member or whatever was with a local news station and is going to eat this up.  It worked.

However, I had no idea a company this size would be scamming people out of $3,000, no problem.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

What’s happening when you try to contact Zelle?

Nobody picks up, constant re-directs, vague "departments".  You know, the ol' wear em down until you give up BS.

She will try in earnest though, this is a lot of money for her and she's not going to just let it go.

I'm blown by Runkle's comments up-thread, though, and worried for her now.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Wow this is real? That’s crazy. 

It is crazy, I had no idea, if true (money's gone).  I mean they give you the info, the name and number of the client, all sides know exactly what is to be done.  And there's a trail.

How in the world are major banks like Chase tied to them?

 

[The General]

Did she send it to the landlord’s correct number?

 

[culdeus]

It is crazy, I had no idea, if true (money's gone).  I mean they give you the info, the name and number of the client, all sides know exactly what is to be done.  And there's a trail.

How in the world are major banks like Chase tied to them?

It's cheaper than having people push ACH transactions for them.  

 

[culdeus]

100% never use zelle for anything though.  Ever.  

 

[shuke]

Yeah, I've done similar, where I claimed a family member or whatever was with a local news station and is going to eat this up.  It worked.

However, I had no idea a company this size would be scamming people out of $3,000, no problem.

I'm not suggesting you threaten Zelle with going to the news.  I'm saying actually go to the news.

 

[Major]

Weird.  I'll occasionally get large amounts of money sent to my email via PayPal on mistake.  The transaction will eventually get cancelled and money returned.  Seems like an easy thing for Zelle to do as well.  

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I'm not suggesting you threaten Zelle with going to the news.  I'm saying actually go to the news.

I'd rather have it fixed the same day with some manager -- or at least try -- than spend the amount of time it will take getting a TV station to do it, which they probably won't actually end up doing.

 

[Judge Smails]

It's the reason why crooks on Craigslist prefer Zelle.  Right behind gift cards and Nigerian Lottery proceeds

 

[DA RAIDERS]

yea....i'm all for technology.  but the only time i've ever used zelle, i went zelle to bank account.  also with chase.  no way on earth i would go through a phone number.  i get that she was doing it successfully, but just too sketchy.  what bank did it go to?  maybe if you find out where it went, it will help.  what does the landlord say?

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

I'm not suggesting you threaten Zelle with going to the news.  I'm saying actually go to the news.

email the local news channels and cc your local politicians. 

 

[Harry Frogfish]

yea....i'm all for technology.  but the only time i've ever used zelle, i went zelle to bank account.  also with chase.  no way on earth i would go through a phone number.  i get that she was doing it successfully, but just too sketchy.  what bank did it go to?  maybe if you find out where it went, it will help.  what does the landlord say?

That's the thing, it IS Zelle to her bank account.  And like you, with Chase.  

The landlord would request rent via email each month.  14 months and no problems.  This time the landlord didn't request rent like usual (on vacation; confirmed, they live on the same property right next to each other), so she was sending rent before it could be considered late (proactive, considerate).

And Zelle confirmed the name (landlord) of the phone number BEFORE she sent the money.  Which means Chase also knows where that money was going (the exact same sum, the exact same day of month, etc.).  

But Chase is like, not our problem.  This, after drawing out their "investigation" 10 days...followed by another 10 days.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

That's the thing, it IS Zelle to her bank account.  And like you, with Chase.  

The landlord would request rent via email each month.  14 months and no problems.  This time the landlord didn't request rent like usual (on vacation; confirmed, they live on the same property right next to each other), so she was sending rent before it could be considered late (proactive, considerate).

And Zelle confirmed the name (landlord) of the phone number BEFORE she sent the money.  Which means Chase also knows where that money was going (the exact same sum, the exact same day of month, etc.).  

But Chase is like, not our problem.  This, after drawing out their "investigation" 10 days...followed by another 10 days.

I guess I’m confused. Using just a Phone number is just too sketchy for me. I was in a panic, sending nearly5k for an off platform vrbo.  With as many verifications s I could make. Still knowing That the second I sent it, it was gone forever.  And I verified that I was sending to a fellow chase member

Sucks man. Someone knows where that money went. 

 

[Fishboy]

Who Owns Zelle?

Zelle is a product of Early Warning Services, LLC, a fintech company owned by seven of America’s largest banks: Bank of America, BB&T (now Truist), Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, U.S. Bank and Wells Fargo.

Instead of calling, I'd show up at my bank and let them figure out. I'm a Chase customer and they're pimping this service. As part owner, they have some skin in the game. 

..

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I'd rather have it fixed the same day with some manager -- or at least try -- than spend the amount of time it will take getting a TV station to do it, which they probably won't actually end up doing.

Doesn't your local TV station have an ombudsman or something similar?  I got a sketchy letter in the mail and contacted KHOU's person.  She got back to me on the same day.  It was on the news the next day.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Business Insider has this to say.

Going forward, I wouldn't use it.  Just use PayPal.  Or if the landlord is next door, just pay by check.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So that phone number must be registered with Zelle or else the payment would have failed. Right?  Maybe the landlord has a different bank account linked to Zelle for her phone number and forgot? 
 

 

[Harry Frogfish]

So that phone number must be registered with Zelle or else the payment would have failed. Right?  Maybe the landlord has a different bank account linked to Zelle for her phone number and forgot? 

I wondered that same thing and asked about it.  Daughter said landlord thinks she only has one account but I'm not so sure anymore.  Will probably call landlord.  This is literally her only tenant and they live on the same property so I find it hard to believe she'd try to pull that.  Or, not realize she had another account to that number (accident).  But we'll find out soon enough on that one.

I am going to go into Chase today.  She can sit on the phone with Zelle forever and hopefully one of us gets to the bottom of it.

 

[pollardsvision]

The reason all banks push Zelle it's because it doesn't have any consumer protections. 

I hope your daughter gets some resolution here, but she's probably a tough spot.

 

[El Floppo]

I have one client who only pays me through Zelle through my bank (TD).

If she proactively sends payment, it doesn't work...I can't access it, even through my bank. It only works if I request it. The times she's sent first, I'm fairly certain she's been able to cancel it on her end. I assume she looked into that?

Parents should do a better job raising kids to not fall for scams.

That's the version where I didn't read your thread and post something that has nothing to do with it.

 

[belljr]

I proactively send payments by zelle all the time.

If it wasn't accepted you can cancel the payment.

It it was accepted someone has it.   All you have to do is log into your zelle account to see if its pending

 

[Capella]

So I assume this is the same with venmo? I’d never use any of these for big transactions but our friend group shuttles money back and forth to each other on there all the time. 

 

[Osaurus]

Never used Zelle, but if it was created by the top 5 banks, you know it sucks (coming from a former employee of one of them)

 

[Juxtatarot]

I wondered that same thing and asked about it.  Daughter said landlord thinks she only has one account but I'm not so sure anymore.  Will probably call landlord.  This is literally her only tenant and they live on the same property so I find it hard to believe she'd try to pull that.  Or, not realize she had another account to that number (accident).  But we'll find out soon enough on that one.

I am going to go into Chase today.  She can sit on the phone with Zelle forever and hopefully one of us gets to the bottom of it.

At some point the landlord might be the one who should be dealing with Zelle on this. I suspect Zelle won’t tell your daughter much other than confirming payment was completed. If landlord is a Zelle customer and payment was received to her phone number, she has a right to get to track that. If somebody else was using my phone number to collect Zelle payments, I’d certainly want that stopped!

 

[Juxtatarot]

The reason all banks push Zelle it's because it doesn't have any consumer protections. 

I hope your daughter gets some resolution here, but she's probably a tough spot.

Customers are demanding easy, contactless ways to pay other people.

 

[gianmarco]

At some point the landlord might be the one who should be dealing with Zelle on this. I suspect Zelle won’t tell your daughter much other than confirming payment was completed. If landlord is a Zelle customer and payment was received to her phone number, she has a right to get to track that. If somebody else was using my phone number to collect Zelle payments, I’d certainly want that stopped!

Yeah, this is a good point. She can show receipt of sending payment. She can show it's no longer in her bank account. She can show it was sent to landlord phone number.

If landlord hasn't received it and is out the money, the landlord can work on tracking down where it went and getting paid. 

 

[McBokonon]

It is crazy, I had no idea, if true (money's gone).  I mean they give you the info, the name and number of the client, all sides know exactly what is to be done.  And there's a trail.

How in the world are major banks like Chase tied to them?

They helped create it.

There’s a company in Scottsdale called Early Warning Services (I worked for them for a year a long time ago.) It was (maybe still is) a fraud prevention company, like flagging risky new banking customers similar to Chexsystems. At the time I was there, they were in the early stages of developing Zelle. EWS is essentially owned by major banks who, through EWS, cooperate on shared services and data exchanges like the new account flagging.

So, Chase, Wells, BofA, Capital One, US Bank and PNC all push Zelle hard because they own it.

 

[arrow1]

$3000/month rent?

 

[acarey50]

$3000/month rent?

Bargain here in southern California

 

[arrow1]

Bargain here in southern California

Yikes

 

[Caveman33]

I have one client who only pays me through Zelle through my bank (TD).

If she proactively sends payment, it doesn't work...I can't access it, even through my bank. It only works if I request it. The times she's sent first, I'm fairly certain she's been able to cancel it on her end. I assume she looked into that?

Parents should do a better job raising kids to not fall for scams.

That's the version where I didn't read your thread and post something that has nothing to do with it.

If Harry had spent 3K on sports lessons when his daughter was a kid, she would likely be better prepared to not get scammed and handle this on her own.  Some parents just refuse to let their kids grow up.

Since the phone number is linked to the landlord's name, I think Step 1 would be having the landlord contact Zelle and asking what bank account is linked to their phone number.  The landlord may have overlooked the money being deposited into a secondary account.

 

[Desert_Power]

Instead of calling, I'd show up at my bank and let them figure out. I'm a Chase customer and they're pimping this service. As part owner, they have some skin in the game. .

Yep. The one time I had an issue with Zelle, I called up the bank I used (Bank of America) and they got it fixed.

 

[pollardsvision]

Customers are demanding easy, contactless ways to pay other people.

All of them have fraud risk for sure. Zelle just seems particularly problematic because it's so tied to your bank account and the banks are pushing it hard.

And they have no liability in fraud cases. They've fought all legislation that would require them to provide consumer protections with Zelle. 

People feel comfortable because their bank is pushing it not realizing they should feel uncomfortable because their bank is pushing it.

Venmo and Cash App have most of the same issues, but again, with Zelle, it's people's own bank pushing it and they are doing it because they have far less liability than other bank products. 

A lot of banks either automatically enroll  people with Zelle or make you jump through a couple hoops to detach it from your bank accounts. Because it's so automatic and coming from the big banks,  they have far more older people using it or enrolled in it than Venmo or Cash App. 

And older people are more targeted by scammers. Zelle customers are generally more vulnerable to scams, and most of them have no idea their "trusted big bank" loves this product because it helps them skirt fraud liability. 

 

[Runkle]

All the warnings say "treat it the same as cash". You Zelle the wrong number or wrong person, tough luck, it's the same as if you pay your rent in cash but slip the envelope in the wrong mailbox or give it to the wrong person. You're not going to get the bank to fix that. You're not going to go to the Treasury and ask them to cancel those bills because they went to the wrong person and give you new ones. It's gone. 

 

[fruity pebbles]

All the warnings say "treat it the same as cash". You Zelle the wrong number or wrong person, tough luck, it's the same as if you pay your rent in cash but slip the envelope in the wrong mailbox or give it to the wrong person. You're not going to get the bank to fix that. You're not going to go to the Treasury and ask them to cancel those bills because they went to the wrong person and give you new ones. It's gone. 

she didn’t Zelle the wrong person though. Right person but a number that wasn’t tied to their account. The money is somewhere, it didn’t just vanish. 

 

[culdeus]

Why is the play to not show when she got the request she paid it and getting the money is on the landlord.  

 

[Caveman33]

she didn’t Zelle the wrong person though. Right person but a number that wasn’t tied to their account. The money is somewhere, it didn’t just vanish. 

Harry said that when his daughter entered the phone number in Zelle, the landlord's name automatically generated.  I don't trust Zelle, for this exact reason, and have only used it once to send money at a landlord's request and his information is still saved in my bank account.  Maybe it works differently if directly using the Zelle app.

I think 3K is too much for a 1BR so this is likely a 2BR or maybe even 3BR.  I'm assuming Harry's daughter was in charge of collecting rent from the roommates and sending it to the landlord.  No request arrived last month but that's no obstacle for an enterprising young lady. "Oops, looks like our rent money disappeared."  I wonder what sort of drama is unfolding in the house.

 

[Juxtatarot]

All of them have fraud risk for sure. Zelle just seems particularly problematic because it's so tied to your bank account and the banks are pushing it hard.

And they have no liability in fraud cases. They've fought all legislation that would require them to provide consumer protections with Zelle. 

People feel comfortable because their bank is pushing it not realizing they should feel uncomfortable because their bank is pushing it.

Venmo and Cash App have most of the same issues, but again, with Zelle, it's people's own bank pushing it and they are doing it because they have far less liability than other bank products. 

A lot of banks either automatically enroll  people with Zelle or make you jump through a couple hoops to detach it from your bank accounts. Because it's so automatic and coming from the big banks,  they have far more older people using it or enrolled in it than Venmo or Cash App. 

And older people are more targeted by scammers. Zelle customers are generally more vulnerable to scams, and most of them have no idea their "trusted big bank" loves this product because it helps them skirt fraud liability. 

OK, but there isn’t revenue generated to the banks from consumers using Zelle. (In my understanding. Correct me if I’m missing something.) I don’t see why they are pushing it other than to make customers loyal and content with their bank’s services.  Even if they are saving some money in fraud losses (I have my doubts), that can result in unhappy customers closing their accounts.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

OK, but there isn’t revenue generated to the banks from consumers using Zelle. (In my understanding. Correct me if I’m missing something.) I don’t see why they are pushing it other than to make customers loyal and content with their bank’s services.  Even if they are saving some money in fraud losses (I have my doubts), that can result in unhappy customers closing their accounts.

Mr R works for a bank.  He didn't even realise that it was an app.  It's the underlying service that does all your online banking payments, such as utilities.  I think the app is for people who don't have bank accounts so they can send money electronically.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Mr R works for a bank.  He didn't even realise that it was an app.  It's the underlying service that does all your online banking payments, such as utilities.  I think the app is for people who don't have bank accounts so they can send money electronically.

The app can be used by people with accounts at financial institutions that haven’t partnered with Zelle.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

The app can be used by people with accounts at financial institutions that haven’t partnered with Zelle.

Yep.  His bank is not one of the ones that owns it.  He says it is used for ACH transfers.

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

I just got a new phone number and have been getting spammed like crazy.  I accidentally clicked on a link, and all of a sudden I got 3k sent to me.  Amazing!

 

[eoMMan]

John Matarese does a lot of reporting nationwide on money scams and people getting ripped off. Maybe reach out to him.

His twitter