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Unofficial $20K Contest Roster thread (1 Viewer)

Ok then, here is the bet.

Whoever bows out of the contest first, loses. They must then place the signature of the winners choosing on their profile immediately. The signature must remain on the losers signature for as long as the winner remains in the contest.

Deal?
"...of the winners choosing"??!! :eek: Now That could go places!!

 
Forgot to write down my team, but I'm pretty sure this is it...Carson PalmerJoey HarringtonDavid CarrThomas JonesChris BrownDuce StaleyLee SuggsJulius JonesPlaxico BurressCharles RogersJerry PorterDonte StallworthIke HilliardDavid TerrellJason WittenJerramy Stevens (I think)Shayne GrahamJohn CarneyCarolinaDenver

 
QB - $26 (Leftwich, Brad Johnson, Carr)Figured I needed decent production out of the QB position, so went with these three. Johnson may be a steal, and Carr and Leftwich are young with some playmakers that could produce good stats.RB - $140 (McAllister, M. Williams, Griffin, Suggs, Foster)I went with the best value stud RB (IMO) in McAllister. With the news of potentially using him as a slot receiver, his value really jumps i nthis format. I like Q and Suggs for the price, and got Williams and Foster as TD vulture and 3rd-down receiving back for needed weeks.WR - $54 (Rashaun Woods, Driver, McCareins, Drew Bennett, Stallworth, Gage, Kennison)With my WRs, I figured no need to grab a great WR if you get a bunch of decent ones. First, the #1's will see a lot more double-coverage, thus meaning less catches (likely). Second, all these WRs have the ability and opportunity to put up good numbers every week. This is probably my weak link, but maybe it will be enough to keep me in week-to-week.TE - $13 (Gates, Freddie Jones)Obvious choices here. It's a TE, so I just need to stay close at this position.K - $10 (Hanson, Akers)Hanson and Akers are both good values IMO. Hanson gets at least 8 domed games, plus I expect more scoring opportunities with the improved Detroit offense. Akers plays on the best team in the NFC, and the free-agent acquistions should provide him with plenty of opportunites.D - $8 (Washington, Minnesota)DTBC was my thinking here. Again, this position just requires me to keep close with the others and I think these 2 will combine to form an adequate defense every week.There you have it. The unlikely $15,000 winner. Maybe. Or maybe not. I'm going to curl up in the fetal position in the corner until this is over. WHERE'S MY BANANA?

 
Ok then, here is the bet.

Whoever bows out of the contest first, loses. They must then place the signature of the winners choosing on their profile immediately. The signature must remain on the losers signature for as long as the winner remains in the contest.

Deal?
"...of the winners choosing"??!! :eek: Now That could go places!!
No worries here....Did you take a gander at his roster? :rotflmao:

 
Didn't spend tons of time analyzing or crunching no's. Just rolling the dice and having fun.QB---$24Favre,Carr,FiedlerRB---$108D Davis,Westbrook,Griffin,McGahee,HollingsWR---$94R Moss,R Williams,D Bennett,A Davis,D Hall,E Parker,HilliardTE---$7Kleinsasser,FauriaK---$9Kasay,M AndersenDef---$8Min,IndyAm I the only one in the contest with R Moss???Noticed lots of the same names in ea post so far.Liked the last one with LT and Edge.

 
QB'SGREEN, JOHNSON, TESTAVERDE ($31)* Green and Johnson will be the main guysRB'sM. FAULK, BROWN, WESTBROOK, JACKSON, FARGAS ($131)* Faulk will be awesome with this scoring system, just need Brown and Westbrook to be productive. Jackson is insurance for FaulkWR'sMCCARIENS, FITZGERALD,STALLWORTH,KENNISON,ROGERS,FERGUSON,RICE($63)* Any team w/o Rogers($9) are crazy at his price. Kennison is my big sleeper here, I look for a big year out of him. Just need three to perform.TE'sWITTEN, L J SMITH ($10)*I think Witten will be a top 7 guy.K'sKASEY,GRAHAM ($6)*Kasey will be consistent, Graham will have up and down weeksDEF'sTAMPA BAY, DENVER ($9)* TB will be tough, S Rice will be dominant. Denver is much improved.MY STRATEGY WAS TO NOT KILL MYSELF ON THE BYE WEEKS WITH TO MANY OFF. I'M NOT DOUBLE UP AT ANY POSITION. MY TUFF WEEKS ARE 4 (ROGERS, WITTEN) 5 (GREEN, WESTBROOK,KENNISON) 8 (JOHNSON, FAULK,STALLWORTH). I LIKE MY CHANCES

 
QB - $25 - Delhomme (10), Gannon (9), Carr (6)I'm expecting big things from Delhome and Carr and I'm also hoping for a Gannon resurgence.RB - $149 - Alexander (80), C. Brown (32), Q Griffin (20), L Suggs (15), Hollings (2)I went big on RB's as I wanted consistent production and got it in Shun. The rest of the corps is filled out with younger upside guys who can blow up on any given week. I haven't seen any teams so far with Alexander so I'm hoping his high point consistency can balance out the duplicate players like Brown, Griffin and Suggs that many other teams have.WR $57 - Burress (19), Fitzgerald (11), Stallworth (10), C Rogers (9), Rice (4), C Bradford (2), E Parker (2)I went relatively cheap on WR, as I did last year, which got me pretty far. As nice as it is to have studs, every week middle of the road guys blow up. Hilliard and Warrick saved me a couple times last year. I'm hoping for the same this year. I'm also hoping Burress sacks up and plays well in his contract year and that Fitz recovers from his ankle injury soon. Bradford will blow up once or twice and Rogers and Stallworth are great value at $19 total. The downside is I'm seeing a lot of the same WR names on other rosters.TE - $8 - Kleinsasser (5), LJ Smith (3)I'm re-thinking the Kleinsasser selection now, but I think both he and LJ will be adequate. If TE's got 2 pts per reception, I would have spent much more here, but I can't justify spending big bucks on TE in this format.PK - $5 - J Hanson (3), K Brown (2) Hanson never sets the world on fire, but is consistent and playing on a much better offence as well as 9 dome games. I think the Texans offence will also be improved this year leading to more points for Brown.DEF - $6 - Den (3), NYJ (3) - I like the Jets D this year and they have a pretty easy schedule. Denver has some "easy games" also plays SD while the Jets are on BYE.Overall, I'm pretty confident in this team as I've got some proven producers good value with some upside picks and well spaced out BYE weeks, for the most part.Good luck to all.

 
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I see your point and don't think I didn't consider doing it, but to make it through the whole season with injuries and byes is hard.  I liked the option of taking the best 2 or 3 scores from Westbrook, T. Jones and C. Brown rather than lay the entire load on Priest or LT.
Agreed, but if you're going to win this thing, you have to do it with the best players. I think I have sufficient depth with Q/Suggs and Pitt (when he gets back, especially with the 1 pt/reception) to cover me if Priest has an off day.If he's hurt or out for a while, I'm ####ed.
Cap, I think you left out a WR from your roster, you only posted 6.
You would be correct...forgot Jerry Rice.
 
Went with a Points per Dollar (PP$) analysis...QB - $32 Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$QB15 - David Carr - Hou/7 - 244.7072 - $6 - 40.8QB16 - Byron Leftwich - Jac/9 - 242.763 - $11 - 22.1QB10 - Chad Pennington - NYJ/3 - 266.2088 - $15 - 17.7This is a bastardization of QBBC. Wanted to get a QBBC cheaply but have no faith in Jake the snake and wanted to include someone I thought could be a top QB (CP), and a couple of guys I thought might be able to breakout this year on improved offenses (BL & DC).RB - $113Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$RB25 - Lee Suggs - Cle/8 - 169.8 - $15 - 11.3RB24 - Quentin Griffin - Den/10 - 170.9 - $20 - 8.5RB31 - Julius Jones - R - Dal/4 - 123.4 - $15 - 8.2RB16 - Brian Westbrook - Phi/5 - 199.4 - $31 - 6.4RB13 - Chris Brown Ten/9 - 204.1 - $32 - 6.4Didn't want to go with any huge expensive names and went with a few guys I think could put up decent scores. Only need 2/5 (40%) of them to have a nice game each week)WR - $78Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$WR34 - Eric Parker - SD/10 - 116.30 - $2 - 58.1WR47 - David Terrell - Chi/5 - 91.00 - $2 - 45.5WR48 - Ike Hilliard - NYG/6 - 90.10 - $3 - 30.0WR19 - Charles Rogers - Det/4 - 142.60 - $9 - 15.8WR30 - Donte' Stallworth - NO/8 - 120.00 - $10 - 12.0WR18 - Jerry Porter - Oak/10 - 147.39 - $21 - 7.0WR11 - Andre Johnson - Hou/7 - 154.60 - $31 - 5.0Wanted to get 3 guys in the top 20 that would normally be my scorers and 4 other guys that at least 1 good score could come out of on the bye weeks. Eric Parker was #1 overall in PP$. David Terrell was 13 overall but #2 (behind Parker) for non-QB/K/D's.TE - $15Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$TE6 - Randy McMichael - Mia/10 - 82.0024 - $8 - 10.3TE12 - Jason Witten - Dal/4 - 65.9018 - $7 - 9.4Sought out 2 middle tier guys just behind the big money TE's that offered pretty good value. Freddie Jones had a bit higher PP$ that Jason Witten in the $7 tier but I haven't had much luck with him in the past few years and Witten has looked pretty good in preseason.PK - $4Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$PK18 - Shayne Graham - Cin/5 - 108 - $2 - 54.0PK22 - Billy Cundiff - Dal/4 - 100 - $2 - 50.0Picked up the two $2 kickers with the highest PP$.DT - $8Pos - Name - Bye - Pts - Cost - PP$DT20 - Washington - Was/7 - 113 - $3 - 37.7DT12 - Minnesota - Min/4 - 123 - $5 - 24.6Defense by CommitteeFBG Projected Average PPG = 89 :bag: (Based on FBG projected points for starters / 16 games)

 
Donovan McNabb

Steve McNair

David Carr

($50)

I'm another who felt like I wanted to go heavy with QB's. Started to try and work it out with Culpepper but gave it up while dealing with the RB lineups. Like McNabb to run a few more in this year with CBuck out, McNair is co-mvp and cheaper than the other co-mvp, and Carr should have a couple competitive weeks.

Domanick Davis

Brian Westbrook

Chris Brown

Moe Williams

Julius Jones

($134)

Bet I spent the second most time working out different permutations for the RB's, and actually started spending over $160 for them--but that hurt other areas too much. Original plan was to take two from one team and build around that, and the best deal for the money would have been Westbrook/Buckhalter (Faulk/Jackson could have produced more but that week 8 bye was a killer). When CBuck went down I just went with RB's I thought had the most upside; Julius Jones was a last minute add in place of Steven Jackson.

Charles Rogers

Donte Stallworth

Drew Bennett

Jerry Rice

Rod Gardner

Ike Hilliard

Brandon Stokley

($42)

I spent more time crunching numbers for WR's than I think I've ever done for anyone in any league! :D

Actually had this worked out with what I thought were good plays at a total of $27 at one point--but wanted the upside of Rogers, Stallworth, and Gardner in particular. My feeling going in was that other than the top 4-5, WR's are a crapshoot week-to-week--so I immediately went down to WR2-3's on passing teams to hopefully get production which complements each other.

Jim Kleinsasser

LJ Smith

($8)

LJ Smith was another last minute add in place of Erron Kinney, because I needed $1 and prefer the bye week. I think either could score, and don't count on any TE's for every week production other than Gonzo/Heap.

Jeff Wilkins

Shayne Graham

($9)

Wilkins is obvious, though I only added him when I flexed some money from the RB's. Graham was the #10 scoring kicker last year in one of my leagues.

St Louis

Washington

($7)

Six of one.....

I'm optimistic! Went farther than I'd expected last year and with the time spent (over-)analyzing this year hope to get to the final cuts. Time will tell. I've at least get past Bass and the others for bragging rights in our neck of the woods!! :excited:

 
Will there be a link available to view your team each week, and see how they are scoring? Or a link to see other people's teams? Right now, you can't even see the team you submitted...

 
QB-J.Dellomme/$10 :hophead: Went QBBC value approach,since passing TD's QB-J.McCown/$8 are only worth 4pts,QB's who can put up rushing yardsQB-D.Carr/$6 are an advantage.All fit this criteriaRB-D.Staley/$37 :hophead: Three solid starters and two who will see plentyRB-C.Brown/$32 of playing time.Important factor is they all catch passesRB-B.Westbrook/$31 at 1pt per rec this is a mandatory criteriaRB-S.Jackson/$11RB-M.Williams/$6WR-A.Johnson/$31 :hophead: Looked for team #1 starters and #2's with WR-D.Branch/$13 upside that have big game potential any given weekWR-L.Fitzgerald/$11 Position with the most available value at the low endWR-C.Rogers/$9WR-D.Bennett/$4WR-A.Davis/$4WR-E.Parker/$2PK-M.Anderson/$5 :hophead: Kickers are a crapeshoot but Anderson is PK-J.Kasay/$4 golden as Minn's kicker and Kasay is solid and on a team that will visit the red-zone often.TE-F.Jones/$7 :hophead: Lot's of looks,great upsideTE-J.Witten/$7DEF-Baltimore/$9 :hophead: Top defence in Balt,should dominate,a DEF-Seattle/$3 week to week diference maker. Sea is a sleeper with some great matchups against a lot of offensively challenged teamsTotal=$250 :) The two factors that I felt was a must criteria was that every position had to have (with the exception being at WR due to the amount of players available any given week),was NO! same week byes in any position catagory and as many early season byes as possible.The logic being that as the competition is reduced,the weekly cutoff number is ETREMMELY! important,the percentages highly favor the team with the more available scoring options,especially after week 7 :yes: Let the games begin-WrckingCrew :boxing:

 
Like my Steeler brother, I am taking this from memory and my memory ain't what it used to be.

TEAM: STEEL INSANE

Pennington

Gannon

Harrington

Strategy: Must Qbs that are ON (alright, bad pun)! Pennington should be top 10 this year. Gannon & Harrington have awesome WRs and play some very weak defenses. Looking for each to have a monster game or two.

Chris Brown

Wheatley

Dom Davis

Tony Hollings

Ron Dayne

Strategy: This is my weak point. Chris Brown and Dom Davis have to really shine here. Wheatley should have a few good games early in the year. Dayne is a gut pick - he did look very good this pre-season. Could be the sleeper that wins this.

DJax

Burress

Lloyd

Roy Williams

Kevin Johnson

Jerry Rice

Parker

Strategy: Very strong, explosive group of WRs. Rice is the possession guy that anchors this group. The rest I expect to have killer weeks, hopefully not all at the same time (groups of 3 will be sweet)!

Gates

LJ Smith

Strategy: Gates is a stud for 2004 and he was cheap. LJ should fill in nicely.

Longwell

Edinger (may have been another $2 guy)

Strategy: Solid kicker and a bye week guy.

Min

Pit

Strategy: Vikings D looks very good. Pittsburgh will have its good weeks.

Edited with comments.

 
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With the point per reception rule, I think there needs to more emphasis on WRs and TEs.
I agree and am surprised that most teams blew their load at running back; misapplication of the stud rb theory I suppose....I spent $74 on running backs and $128 on wide receivers (but "only" $14 on tight ends).We shall see.... :D
The winner last year DID NOT spend a lot on wide receivers...Minimal wide receiver theory plays out even more here because you are not picking 3 starters out of the 7 on your roster, all you need is any 2 or 3 of your 7 wide receivers to pull a decent weekend...If you pick receivers with high scoring potential on any given week, like D. Branch or Calico you should have that position covered...I also think that the QB position is far more important than it looks like most people think. You only get 1 QB score so it better be a very high one. Three "good" QB scores does you absolutely no good...I can't imagine winning with more spent on wide redeivers than running backs...
 
QB - $48 (Culpepper, Carr and Rivers)RB - $96 (Westbrook, C. Brown, J. Jones, Suggs and Dayne)WR - $81 (Burress, Fitzgerald, Lloyd, McCariens, Rogers, Roy Williams and Pinkston)TE - $10 (LJ Smith and Witten)K - $8 (Akers and Kaeding)DEF - $7 (Chiefs and Broncos)

 
QB: Trent Green/$18, Jake Delhomme/$10, Tim Rattay/$6RB: Corey Dillon/$55, Tyrone Wheatley/$14, Chris Brown/$32, Willis McGahee/$5, Julius Jones/$15WR: Eddie Kennison/$11, Javon Walker/$22, Kelley Washington/$6, Donald Driver/$6, Jerry Rice/$4, Deion Branch/$13, Quincy Morgan/$7TE: Erron Kinney/$4, Jim Kleinsasser/$5K: John Hall/$4, Joe Nedney $4DT: Minnestoa/$5, Oakland/$4

 
All these lineups kind of look the same!I think that spending the least amount possible on RBs was probably the way to go, as their points/dollar were generally the lowest of all the positions. I ran out of time before I could build an optimizer to capitalize on this!QBs $36McNair $20Delhomme $10Carr $6RBs $98Brown $32Westbrook $31Suggs $15Wheatley $14M. Williams $6WRs $72Burress $19Lloyd $17McCareins $14Fitzgerald $11Stallworth $10C. Rogers $9E. Parker $2TEs $11F. Jones $7Stevans $4PKs $13Vinatieri $7Akers $6DEs $10St. Louis $4Philly $6

 
QB: Favre, Pennington, Gannon ($39)

RB: Westbrook, C. Brown, Alstott, M. Williams, Fargas ($75)

WR: A. Johnson, Branch, Fitzgerald, Lloyd, Rogers, McCareins, Stallworth ($105)

TE: Gates, Witten ($13)

K: Hanson, K. Brown ($5)

Def: Denver, Carolina ($11)

Why my team has a chance at this thing...

* All three of my QB's have a shot at the top 10.

* Westbrook and Brown were the best value at the lowest price. IMO Alstott is in for a big season, Moe will catch 40-50 recs and he'll rush for some yards too. Fargas is the darkhorse and if he emerges out of Oakland, I could have one helluva team

* Can you build a stronger WR corps with this cap stranglehold? Solid all the way through.

* Gates - I'm hoping he can prove me right. Witten is the lone TE in a Bill Parcels offense. Parcels has a history of getting good production from his TE's.

* Hanson and K. Brown are casualties of running out of $, yet they are still serviceable and both are on budding offenses.

* Denver and Carolina will produce top 10 in sacks each. Both should have adequate turnover ratios too.

Projected stats per FBG

Quarterback

Chad Pennington: 3612 yards, 22 TD, 266 pts

Brett Favre: 3399 yards, 28 TD, 265 pts

Rich Gannon: 3128 yards, 20 TD, 242 points

QB points: 773

Running Back

Chris Brown: 1296 yards, 8 TD, 205 rec yards 1 TD, 204 pts

Brian Westbrook: 1066 yards, 6 TD, 448 rec yards, 2 TD, 199 pts

Moe Williams: 396 yards, 5 TD, 446 rec yards, 2 TD, 126 pts

Mike Alstott: 273 yards, 5 TD, 116 rec yards, 1 TD, 75 pts

Justin Fargas: 301 yards, 2 TD, 49 pts

RB points: 653

Wide Receivers

Andre Johnson: 79 rec, 1106 yards, 7 TD, 155 pts

Charles Rogers: 81 rec, 988, 7 TD, 143 pts

Larry Fitzgerald: 75 rec, 923 yards, 7 TD, 135 pts

Justin McCareins: 61 rec, 933 yards, 6 TD, 130 pts

Brandon Lloyd: 63 rec, 939, 5 TD, 124 pts

Deion Branch: 64 rec, 864 yards, 6 TD, 123 pts

Donte' Stallworth: 53 rec, 837 yards, 6 TD, 120 pts

WR points: 930 pts

Tight End

Antonio Gates: 42 rec, 491 yards, 3 TD, 67 pts

Jason Witten: 47 rec, 479 yards, 3 TD, 66 pts

TE points: 133

Placekicker

Jason Hanson: 29 FG, 101 pts

Kris Brown: 28 FG, 91 pts

Kicker points: 192

Defense/ST

Carolina: 16 fumbles, 20 INT, 46 sacks, 168 pts

Denver: 15 fumbles, 17 INT, 37 sacks, 134 pts

Defense/ST points: 302

Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 773, 39 spent

RB: 653, 75 spent

WR: 930, 105 spent

TE: 133, 13 spent

PK: 192, 5 spent

Def: 302, 11 spent

Total: 2983 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 11.9

PPDS per position

QB: 19.8

RB: 8.7

WR: 8.8

TE: 10.2

PK: 38.4

Def: 27.4

 
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Capella Posted on Sep 8 2004, 08:25 AM everybody has the same roster.
I think my roster is a :honda: QBTrent Green $18David Carr $6Testeverde $4RBChris Brown $32Kevin Jones $32Brian Westbrook $31Suggs $15Pittman $3WRAndre Johnson $31Jerry Porter $21Donte Stallworth $10Charles Rogers $9TGlenn $7Andre Davis $4Dante Hall $2TEWitten $7AGates $6KJHanson $3KBrown $2DOAK $4DEN $3
 
if I remember right:Gannon 9Brad Johnson 9Carr 624Kevin Jones 32Westbrook 31Brown 32Griffin 20Suggs 15130Fitzgerald 11Rogers 9Kevin Johnson 5Rice 4Hilliard 3Terrell 2Parker 236Gonzalez 39Eric johnson 342Akers 6janikowski 410St. Louis 4Atlanta 37$249 totalcouldn't find a way to spend that last dollarthought about Elam over Akersalso was debating Delhomme over BJ or Gannonthought about Drew Bennett in the WR picture, but couldn't get myself to add him for any of the guys I already haddecided against both in the endHaving gonzalez and 5 starting RBs meant I had to sacrifice a bit in other areas.5 starting RBs mean I have a good chance to compete against people with stellar rbs since I should be able to get 2 nice performances a week out of 5 and bye weeks should be easy. The only way I could afford to do that is to make a lot of the obvious value plays on the board. I opted to ignore Thomas Jones because I think his ceiling is lower than the rest of my guys based on his inability to perform in the past for whatever reason. I'd rather gamble on guys who are being given an opportunity and see if they can produce, so I guess I am somewhat in the I think Thomas Jones will flop camp. With a proven backup in Thomas behind him, I see him as more of a risk of not being the starter at some point. I think Kevin Jones, Brown, and Westbrook have more secure jobs. I could see Suggs and Griffin losing their positions at some point to talented backups as well, but they were cheaper than Thomas Jones making the gamble easier.WR I am a bit weaker than most, but I think I have a good group of receivers who should see a lot of balls their way -- I'm counting on getting a decent amount of catches to pull me through. Thought about putting Drew Bennett on the roster, but I didn't like that he will be competing with Mason and Calico (when he comes back) for balls. I spent less at receiver than I did at TE, so we'll see how that works out.With 3 QBs, I just wanted 3 decent guys and should be able to get one good performance per week out of them. I think BJ and Gannon both have chances to capture success they have enjoyed in the past. BJ has topped 22 tds in the last 2 years in the pass happy Tampa offense and Gannon was 4 straight seasons of 24 or more tds until last year. Carr should be an adequate third guy and that Houston team seems like it is coming together and he is certainly not in danger of losing his job this season. There is a little more uncertainty of that with the other two if they falter, but I don't think that will happen.I think the consistency of this team should pull me through the early weeks and I will need a few home runs later on to stay in it.

 
Delahomne - 10$Palmer - 8$Carr - 6$T. Jones - 33$C. Brown -32$Q. Griffin - 20$Suggs - 15$Wheatley - 14$P Burress - 19$J. Porter - 21$D Branch - 13$Fitzgerald - 11$D Stallworth - 10$C. Rogers - 9$D Terrell - 2$F Jones - 7$A Gates - 6$Hanson - 3$J Reed - 3$Denver - 3$Minnesota - 5$

 
In general I went through and made a sheet with the projected points and cost and looked for players with high production/cost ratios and then adjusted from there. Tried to compare value ratios across the positions (i.e. how much a 250 point RB costs vs. how much a 250 point WR costs) to see where best to spend my cash. It's my first time so we'll see how it goes.QB - $39 - Went with consistancey in CP and possible explosive games with TG.Green, Trent (KC/5) - $18Pennington, Chad (NYJ/3) - $15Carr, David (Hou/7) - $6RB - $122 - Four (hopefully) viable startersDavis, Domanick (Hou/7) - $50Westbrook, Brian (Phi/5) - $31Griffin, Quentin (Den/10) - $20Suggs, Lee (Cle/8) - $15Williams, Moe (Min/4) - $6WR - $64 - Definate sleeper group. I think a bunch of these guys could explode.Porter, Jerry (Oak/10) - $21Fitzgerald, Larry (Ari/6) - $11Kennison, Eddie (KC/5) - $11Rogers, Charles (Det/4) - $9Driver, Donald (GB/9) - $6Davis, Andre' (Cle/8) - $4Parker, Eric (SD/10) - $2TE - $12 - I think Freddie will have a big year.Jones, Freddie (Ari/6) - $7Kleinsasser, Jim (Min/4) - $5K - $6 - Ehhh...Janikowski, Sebastian (Oak/10) - $4Graham, Shayne (Cin/5) - $2DEF - $7 - Chosen mostly by points/cost ratioSt.Louis (StL/8) - $4Atlanta (Atl/9) - $3

 
QB: $27

Plummer $11

Delhomme $10

Rattay $6

RB: $129

Taylor $60

Brown $32

Griffin $20

Suggs $15

Toefield $2

WR: $68

J.Smith $28

Porter $21

C.Rogers $9

Rice $4

Parker $2

Terrell $2

Hall $2

TE: $9

Dallas Clark $6

Miller $3

K: $8

Akers $6

Cundiff $2

D: $9

Eagles $6

Giants $3

Sweet. :thumbup:

 
QB: Favre, Pennington, Gannon ($39)

RB: Westbrook, C. Brown, Alstott, M. Williams, Fargas ($75)

WR: A. Johnson, Branch, Fitzgerald, Lloyd, Rogers, McCareins, Stallworth ($105)

TE: Gates, Witten ($13)

K: Hanson, K. Brown ($5)

Def: Denver, Carolina ($11)

Why my team has a chance at this thing...

* All three of my QB's have a shot at the top 10.

* Westbrook and Brown were the best value at the lowest price. IMO Alstott is in for a big season, Moe will catch 40-50 recs and he'll rush for some yards too. Fargas is the darkhorse and if he emerges out of Oakland, I could have one helluva team

* Can you build a stronger WR corps with this cap stranglehold? Solid all the way through.

* Gates - I'm hoping he can prove me right. Witten is the lone TE in a Bill Parcels offense. Parcels has a history of getting good production from his TE's.

* Hanson and K. Brown are casualties of running out of $, yet they are still serviceable and both are on budding offenses.

* Denver and Carolina will produce top 10 in sacks each. Both should have adequate turnover ratios too.

Projected stats per FBG

Quarterback

Chad Pennington: 3612 yards, 22 TD, 266 pts

Brett Favre: 3399 yards, 28 TD, 265 pts

Rich Gannon: 3128 yards, 20 TD, 242 points

QB points: 773

Running Back

Chris Brown: 1296 yards, 8 TD, 205 rec yards 1 TD, 204 pts

Brian Westbrook: 1066 yards, 6 TD, 448 rec yards, 2 TD, 199 pts

Moe Williams: 396 yards, 5 TD, 446 rec yards, 2 TD, 126 pts

Mike Alstott: 273 yards, 5 TD, 116 rec yards, 1 TD, 75 pts

Justin Fargas: 301 yards, 2 TD, 49 pts

RB points: 653

Wide Receivers

Andre Johnson: 79 rec, 1106 yards, 7 TD, 155 pts

Charles Rogers: 81 rec, 988, 7 TD, 143 pts

Larry Fitzgerald: 75 rec, 923 yards, 7 TD, 135 pts

Justin McCareins: 61 rec, 933 yards, 6 TD, 130 pts

Brandon Lloyd: 63 rec, 939, 5 TD, 124 pts

Deion Branch: 64 rec, 864 yards, 6 TD, 123 pts

Donte' Stallworth: 53 rec, 837 yards, 6 TD, 120 pts

WR points: 930 pts

Tight End

Antonio Gates: 42 rec, 491 yards, 3 TD, 67 pts

Jason Witten: 47 rec, 479 yards, 3 TD, 66 pts

TE points: 133

Placekicker

Jason Hanson: 29 FG, 101 pts

Kris Brown: 28 FG, 91 pts

Kicker points: 192

Defense/ST

Carolina: 16 fumbles, 20 INT, 46 sacks, 168 pts

Denver: 15 fumbles, 17 INT, 37 sacks, 134 pts

Defense/ST points: 302

Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 773, 39 spent

RB: 653, 75 spent

WR: 930, 105 spent

TE: 133, 13 spent

PK: 192, 5 spent

Def: 302, 11 spent

Total: 2983 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 11.9

PPDS per position

QB: 19.8

RB: 8.7

WR: 8.8

TE: 10.2

PK: 38.4

Def: 27.4
I still fail to see how having 3 possible "top ten" QB's are a plus in this format...1 Kickazz quarterback (Manning or Pepper) should outscore your 3 every week...

I like Westbrook and Brown but dont see Alstott, Williams or Fargas able to put up points to help your team...

I just don't see a backup/parttime rb putting up serious numbers. Five starting runningbacks should give you 2 with good numbers every week...

Wide receivers are totally hit or miss so spending money on WR is a crap shoot on any given weekend. A little money spread around on 7 "potential" high scorers on would seem to be the way to go. Again starters for the most part. Chicago, Baltimore and SD may not have a very potent offense but Terrell, KJ or Parker are bound to catch some passes and score some TD's. They don't have to be consistent but if each of them gives me 2 good scoring weeks over the season then they have done their job and I can hopefully pick up the slack with the likes of Branch, Rogers, Calico and Stallworth etc...

Don't see enough of a difference makers in TE, PK or DEF to worry about...

I am expecting Pepper, my 5 starting non-stud running backs and 1 or 2 decent wide receiver scores to keep me in the running all the way through...

Realizing of course that and injury to Pepper takes me out of the contest...

This of course is JMHO and may be way off base...

 
I've got a hardcopy at home, so I'll have to edit this later. But here it is from memory. As with many of the lineups its very similar expect for one player. And that player could make or break me.

QBs

D. Carr - just like everyone else

B. Johnson - Should throw a lot of passes to C. Garner and in Gruden's QB friendly O. Just praying he doesn't get benched for C. Simms.

V. Testeverde (cheap and a starter for now. Should make for a decent bye week fill)

RBs - This is where I went a little different

Jamal Lewis - This is the guy. If he doesn't go to trial, will put up huge numbers and hardly anyone else has him. If he goes down, I go down, but at $68 could be an absolute steal.

C. Brown - Who doesn't?

L. Suggs - ditto

T. Hollings - If D. Davis goes down, will fill in very well.

??? - Can't remember might be B. Westbrook or Q. Griffin.

WRs - Very much like everyone else, tried to get as much value with the shotgun approach.

A. Johnson

B. Lloyd

R. Ferguson

E. Parker - $2 and a starter? Talk about value

D. Bennett

D. Stallworth

C. Rogers

TEs - A little different here as well, didn't want to be exactly like others

E. Johnson - Injury risk but if lasts, will put up numbers each and every week.

A. Gates - A lot of hype and I bought into it for $6

Ks

J. Hanson

D. Brien

D/STs

Denver - thinking that Champ Bailey should improve that D.

NY Jets - Cheap and are my 2nd fav team. Also like the speed and the new 3-4 defense. Will take sometime to gel, but should be strong towards the end of the season. Especially in the offensively challanged AFC East.

 
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Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 773, 39 spent

RB: 653, 75 spent

WR: 930, 105 spent

TE: 133, 13 spent

PK: 192, 5 spent

Def: 302, 11 spent

Total: 2983 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 11.9

PPDS per position

QB: 19.8

RB: 8.7

WR: 8.8

TE: 10.2

PK: 38.4

Def: 27.4
Using the Wheelhouse method...Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 754, 32 spent

RB: 868, 113 spent

WR: 862, 78 spent

TE: 148, 15 spent

PK: 208, 4 spent

Def: 236, 8 spent

Total: 3075 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 12.3

PPDS per position

QB: 23.6

RB: 7.7

WR: 11.1

TE: 9.9

PK: 52

Def: 29.5

 
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Favre

Carr

Vinny.....$25

TJones

CBrown

LSuggs

Moe

Dayne.....$89

DJackson

McCareins

Branch

Fitz

Rogers

Hillard

Parker.....$90

Crumpler

McMichael...$25

Vandy

Grahmn.....$10

BALT

Cinn..........$11

I didn't want to load all my eggs into 1 basket and use 30-40% of the cap on 1 player....this team should be deep enough to keep us going for awhile, where we'll take our chances once the field has been thinned out some

As a team 3050 projected FF points, but we don't score this way week-to-week

I thought it prudent to spend a couple extra $$$ to get to the top of the K/D positions, plus get 2 TE's that will push Gonzo/Heap combined...

just using the projections for the starting lineup....1533 for our starting 9

 
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My general strategy was threefold:

1) Identify people that would be on everyone's roster and avoid them unless value was too great (*indicated with asterisks)

2) Cover bye weeks (this led to taking some riskier picks)

3) Take 1 pt/per reception heavily into account for RB, .01 pt per yard into account for QB

The Swarm 2004:

QB: $33

McNair, Steve (Ten/9) - $20

Harrington, Joey (Det/4) - $7

*Carr, David (Hou/7) - $6

Strongly considered Chase's top QBBC picks here, but I can't believe in Plummer. He has the arm and the reflexes, but has been very inconsistent. I loved Favre, Brady, and Delhomme for the money as well. However, Det has an easy schedule and good WR, Carr can have some explosive weeks, and I really think McNair will be top 4 QB in this system. Had to get him for 20 bills.

RB: $121

Staley, Duce (Pit/7) - $37

Garner, Charlie (TB/8) - $33

*Westbrook, Brian (Phi/5) - $31

Wheatley, Tyrone (Oak/10) - $14

*Williams, Moe (Min/4) - $6

Sought to avoid these players: Thomas Jones, B. Westbrook, Chris Brown, Kevin Jones, Q. Griffin, L. Suggs, M. Williams. They are all great values with upside-- and will be on everyone's roster. Of the group, I really liked Westbrook, so he was my given. I loved T. Jones as well, but that's two of my top RB with week 5 bye.

Duce has serious potential, I like him better than most. Garner is someone many people overlooked in the 30's. He has proven skills and TB will be throwing him the rock quite a bit. I don't necessarily like him better than Chris Brown, but he is someone who will be on very few rosters.

Wheatley is my Suggs alternative. Suggs may very well outperform Wheatley, but I wanted non-herd guys.

WR: $68

Smith, Rod (Den/10) - $24

Branch, Deion (NE/3) - $13

*Fitzgerald, Larry (Ari/6) - $11

*Rogers, Charles (Det/4) - $9

Driver, Donald (GB/9) - $6

Gage, Justin (Chi/5) - $3

*Parker, Eric (SD/10) - $2

Tough calls here. I figured that Parker, Terrell, Lloyd, Rogers, Fitz/Kennison, and Porter would be on many rosters for the value. Can't ignore Rogers at $9. Can't ignore Parker at $2.

Rod Smith is my "he's not Porter" pick in the $20's. I love Branch at $13. Worried about Fitz. I had Terrell until the last minute, but I figured he'd be on many, many rosters. So I zig-zagged and took Gage instead. Seriously considered Bobby Engram under the theory that if K-Rob/DJax go down, he's #2 WR on an explosive offense for three bucks. Maybe I should have done so, but I know Gage is starting now.

TE: $13

Jones, Freddie (Ari/6) - $7

*Gates, Antonio (SD/10) - $6

Unfortunately, cannot pass up Gates for $6.

K: $6

Kasay, John (Car/3) - $4

Edinger, Paul (Chi/5) - $2

Really liked S. Graham and K. Brown at the $2, but trying to avoid the herd. FFToday has Edinger ranked very high. Went with someone else's projections to get out of the FBG box.

D: $9

Philadelphia (Phi/5) - $6

Washington (Was/7) - $3

"The top schedule combination was Washington and Philadelphia, with 411 'points'."

Thanks, FootBallGuys!

Really, just participating in this contest and seeing everyone's choices is worth the time to play it, even if I'm out week one. Hope to see you in the final 200.

 
I still fail to see how having 3 possible "top ten" QB's are a plus in this format...

1 Kickazz quarterback (Manning or Pepper) should outscore your 3 every week...

I like Westbrook and Brown but dont see Alstott, Williams or Fargas able to put up points to help your team...
Bone Yard Dog - I'm not sure I understand your logic behind this statement...."I still fail to see how having 3 possible "top ten" QB's are a plus in this format..."

Let's say Culpepper goes off and has a great week. 325 yards passing with 3 TD and 40 yards rushing.

How would Culpepper's stats beat a combo of 3 pretty darn good QB's who maybe averaged 240 yards passing with a total of 4-5 TD passes? On a good week, those three QB's (Farve, Pennington, Gannon) could reach 9 TD passes total.

You're right, Moe, Alstott and Fargas are kinda weak, but I think Fargas is going to earn the RB1 role by midseason. Moe is just a body that catches passes and scores an occasional TD. Alstott is a hope that he steals goal line TD's. Mike Alstott seems to have the off and on syndrome. He's off one year and on the next. This would be his "on" year. TB has plenty of RB options, hopefully Alstott will provide some points with a TD or two here and there.

I like your theory of the $2 WR's on bad teams. They may wind up being more valuable, because they will provide stats on a weekly basis that also freed up more $ for better RB's, instead of having the Alstott's and Fargas'.

We'll see....but I like my QB tandem. I still don't see how having one QB stud outproduces those 3. I don't see it. Show me what I'm missing.

 
I'm sensing a trend, but they can't kick EVERYONE off in one week can they?QB: $27Plummer $11Delhomme $10Carr $6RB: $102T Jones $33Brown $32Griffin $20Suggs $15Hollings $2WR: $96Chambers $32A Johnson $31B Lloyd $17Driver $6D Bennett $4A Davis $4Terrell $2TE: $13F Jones $7Gates $6K: $6Seabass $4Graham $2D: $6Pitt $3Denver $3Got some Bye week issues in week 7 and 10, but I like this team (good balance). Probably spent too much on WR considering the format.

 
T. Green 18C. Pennington 15J. Harrington 7C. Brown 32Q. Griffen 20J. Jones 15L. Suggs 15T. Hollings 2D. Jackson 38B. Lloyd 17D. Branch 13D. Stallworth 10C. Rogers 9E. Parker 2D. Terrell 2E. Kinney 4J. Stevens 4J. Brown 6M. Stover 6Carolina 8Denver 3Spent 246 of 250.

 
QB - $41 (16%)

McNair $20

Pennington $15

Carr $6

McNair is still a FP monster and will coninue to be. At $20 he represented a little more consistency than Green @ $18. Pennington and Carr will be nice fillers. Pennington has potential for many multiple TD games & will help offset the McNair injury risk.

RB - 109 (44%)

Westbrook $31

Griffin $20

Staley $37

Suggs $15

Moe Williams $6

Went for the value and pass catchers. Westbrook, Griffin, Staley & Williams are all strong pass catching RBs. Suggs appeared to be great value, but Davis is being a #####!

WR $69 (28%)

Jimmy Sniff $28

Rogers $9

Fitzgerald $11

Branch $13

Andre Davis $4

Terrell $2

Parker $2

Interesting stuff here. Sniff will be the clear #1 for Lefty and will have a ton of looks. Best value of the Top15 WRs. Rogers, Fitz & Branch are exceptional deals, all being Top25-30 guys and under $13. Davis is a flier. Terrell and Parker are clear #1s on their poor-passing teams, but I bet each will have 3-4 scores worth recording.

TE $13 (5%)

Witten $7

Gates $6

Witten is going to be huge in Parcell's scheme and with Vinny's weakening arm. Gates will book a bunch of rec's.

PK $6 (2%)

Kasay $4

Graham $2

My real fliers. But I really like Kasay's chances. The guys got a great leg. Graham was a $2 choice who should benefit from Palmer's inexperience in the red zone.

DEF $12 (5%)

BAL $9

Denver $3

BAL's DEF will be stellar. Hopefully DEN will post a score once in a while.

 
GarciaBradyCarrWestbrookGriffenSuggsWheatleyM. WilliamsJ. SmithBurressRogersMorganKennisonHilliardGatesKleinsasserHansenCarneyRavensPanthers

 
Haven't had a chance to look through all of the other rosters yet, but I'll go ahead and post mine:

QB ($48):

D Culpeper (39)

J Fiedler (3)

AJ Feeley (6)

RB ($132):

P Holmes (99)

L Suggs (15)

T Wheatley (14)

T Hambrick (2)

J Fargas (2)

WR ($48):

J Galloway (13)

R Wayne (10)

C Rogers (9)

D Driver (6)

D Bennett (4)

A Davis (4)

D Terrell (2)

TE ($9):

J Witten (7)

D Jolley (2)

K ($6):

S Janikowski (4)

P Dawson (2)

DEF ($7):

St. Louis (4)

Washington (3)

Holmes, Culpeper, and (hopefully) value at WR are obviously the keys to my team..

How should I report this $15,000 on my taxes next year?? :boxing:

 
Haven't had a chance to look through all of the other rosters yet, but I'll go ahead and post mine:

QB ($48):

D Culpeper (39)

J Fiedler (3)

AJ Feeley (6)

RB ($132):

P Holmes (99)

L Suggs (15)

T Wheatley (14)

T Hambrick (2)

J Fargas (2)

WR ($48):

J Galloway (13)

R Wayne (10)

C Rogers (9)

D Driver (6)

D Bennett (4)

A Davis (4)

D Terrell (2)

TE ($9):

J Witten (7)

D Jolley (2)

K ($6):

S Janikowski (4)

P Dawson (2)

DEF ($7):

St. Louis (4)

Washington (3)

Holmes, Culpeper, and (hopefully) value at WR are obviously the keys to my team..

How should I report this $15,000 on my taxes next year?? :boxing:
I considered such a roster...loaded at the top w/2 of the highest FF point scorers in the gamein the end, I decided there would be weeks where these guys would be 'human' and the lack of depth at the other positions would be my demise

I went w/avg QB/RB's and deep WR corp...plus a decent TE combo of Crumpler/McMichael and top of the position K/D w/Vandy-BALT

it sure will be fun to see which strategy wins out in the end!

 
Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 773, 39 spent

RB: 653, 75 spent

WR: 930, 105 spent

TE: 133, 13 spent

PK: 192, 5 spent

Def: 302, 11 spent

Total: 2983 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 11.9

PPDS per position

QB: 19.8

RB: 8.7

WR: 8.8

TE: 10.2

PK: 38.4

Def: 27.4
Using the Wheelhouse method...Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 754, 32 spent

RB: 868, 113 spent

WR: 862, 78 spent

TE: 148, 15 spent

PK: 208, 4 spent

Def: 236, 8 spent

Total: 3075 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 12.3

PPDS per position

QB: 23.6

RB: 7.7

WR: 11.1

TE: 9.9

PK: 52

Def: 29.5
Attention Lehigh....I like your team :thumbup:

* solid RB's

* Very strong and serviceable WR's

* Good TE's

* Defenses are very serviceable

QB's: Pennington, Carr, Leftwich (if I remember right) are OK, but i like mine better :P

Tale of the tape:

Wheelhouse vs. Lehigh

QB: Adv WH

RB: big Adv LH

WR: Adv WH

TE: Adv LH

K: push, slight edge to WH

Def: Adv WH

The biggest question....will your solid group of RB outproduce a stronger QB trio or stronger WR corps?

 
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Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 773, 39 spent

RB: 653, 75 spent

WR: 930, 105 spent

TE: 133, 13 spent

PK: 192, 5 spent

Def: 302, 11 spent

Total: 2983 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 11.9

PPDS per position

QB: 19.8

RB: 8.7

WR: 8.8

TE: 10.2

PK: 38.4

Def: 27.4
Using the Wheelhouse method...Total fantasy points (projected per FBG)

QB: 754, 32 spent

RB: 868, 113 spent

WR: 862, 78 spent

TE: 148, 15 spent

PK: 208, 4 spent

Def: 236, 8 spent

Total: 3075 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 12.3

PPDS per position

QB: 23.6

RB: 7.7

WR: 11.1

TE: 9.9

PK: 52

Def: 29.5
Again with the Wheelhouse method (which I happened to use)QB: 803 - $41

RB: 1052 - $109

WR: 1341 - $69

TE: 222 - $13

PK: 240 - $6

Def: 350 - $12

Total: 4013 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 16.05

PPDS per position

QB: 19.7

RB: 9.7

WR: 19.5

TE: 17.1

PK: 40

Def: 29.2

 
Again with the Wheelhouse method (which I happened to use)

QB: 803 - $41

RB: 1052 - $109

WR: 1341 - $69

TE: 222 - $13

PK: 240 - $6

Def: 350 - $12

Total: 4013 points

projected points per dollar spent (PPDS): 16.05

PPDS per position

QB: 19.7

RB: 9.7

WR: 19.5

TE: 17.1

PK: 40

Def: 29.2
Barry Jive - where did you get your projection points? I have the same TE setup as you (Gates and Witten) and only have a projected point total of 133 points, not 222 that you have. Proj. points per FBG projections

Gates: 67

Witten: 66

I saw your values and my jaw dropped. I can't be sure, but I think you used a different points projection than me. The TE values should be the same and they are not.

 
Bone Yard Dog - I'm not sure I understand your logic behind this statement....

"I still fail to see how having 3 possible "top ten" QB's are a plus in this format..."

Let's say Culpepper goes off and has a great week. 325 yards passing with 3 TD and 40 yards rushing.

How would Culpepper's stats beat a combo of 3 pretty darn good QB's who maybe averaged 240 yards passing with a total of 4-5 TD passes? On a good week, those three QB's (Farve, Pennington, Gannon) could reach 9 TD passes total.
Although I'm not BYD, I'll take a stab at this.We only get points for our top QB, not the total points that all our QB's put up.

From the Contest Rules page

Each week your top QB, top 2 RBs, top 3 WRs, top TE, top PK and top Defense will count towards your weekly total. You do not have to select who will play. You will receive the maximum score based on your roster.
 
I went with a different approach. I went with a few teams and covered myself with taking backups (Griffin/Bell, DDavis/Hollings, Horn/Stallworth, and I had Rogers/Williams, but dropped Williams and grabbed Terrell).

QB's: $36

McNabb

Rattay

Carr

I think McNabb is due for a huge year and the other guys are just fillins. I wanted Palmer but he has the same Bye as McNabb. I'm hoping that Rattay holds onto the starting job until week 6 after McNabb's Bye

RB's: $117

DDavis

Hollings

Griffen

Bell

Westbrook

A couple of guys paired and with some Luck Westbrook not only fills in nicely as a bye week replacement, but also wins a few weeks.

WR's: $74

Horm

Stallworth

Rogers

Wayne

Clayton

Bennett

Terrell

My favorite guy on this list is Wayne. He will have somewhere between 4 and 6 monster games this year, probably at home. But if you have to pick those games and start him he will drive you nuts. In this case I just get those monster games when they occur because I get maximum scoring. If this works well for me I may use more guys like this next year. He's kind of an experiment this year.

TE's: $9

Miller

Gates

If you can't get Gonzo or Heap then hope you get lucky. Everyone else is kinda worthless.

K's: $7

MGramatica

SeaBass

They're kickers. Who cares?

D/ST: $7

KC

Indy

KC because of Dante Hall and Indy just because I think they are undervalued and needed the coin elsewhere.

 
We only get points for our top QB, not the total points that all our QB's put up.

From the Contest Rules page

Each week your top QB, top 2 RBs, top 3 WRs, top TE, top PK and top Defense will count towards your weekly total. You do not have to select who will play. You will receive the maximum score based on your roster.
Ohhhhh! Aww man - well there goes my strategy. I did not see that small print in the scoring. HmmmmmmEach week your top QB, top 2 RBs, top 3 WRs, top TE, top PK and top Defense will count towards your weekly total. You do not have to select who will play. You will receive the maximum score based on your roster.

This changes my whole philosophy then....I wish I knew that before. Well - I hope I can still stay afloat, but I doubt it. Shame on me for not noticing that. Doh! :bag:

 
Each week your top QB, top 2 RBs, top 3 WRs, top TE, top PK and top Defense will count towards your weekly total. You do not have to select who will play. You will receive the maximum score based on your roster.
Damn, I didn't see that. I thought it was all players all the time. I would have spent a little more on one QB, 2 RBs, and 3 WRs, and a little less on the "backups." Crap.Well, anyway, I ended up with the same lineup as everybody else, so I guess most of us are in the same boat.
 
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