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2005 SEASON - Indianapolis Colts @ New England Patriots (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cracKer
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ColtsFreak
Footballguy
Hey workhorse....get a clue Week 1 Edge ran for 142 against the Pats and the team had a total of 202 yards on the ground. NE may be ok against the run, but they can be ran on. The pats downfall will be committing to stopping the run or the pass because they cannot do both against Indy.
ColtsFreak
Footballguy
But their Defense is not nearly as good as last year. Wilfork is no Ted Washington. Seymour is most likely out and if he plays how effective will he be???? No one can replace Law at the CB position. I don't care about the stats comparison between last year and this year. All that matters is who lines up on Sunday and it looks as if the Colts have the edge. (Pun intended)
djcolts
Footballguy
Just as a general comment (not specifically at anyone) - can we keep discussion on this civil? Reading the Indy Star Colts forums is tough enough (it is so bad that is was mentioned on ESPN Page 2's Snap Judgments as ridiculous) - I'd like to keep this clean and have good discussion on this - with no insults.
a noble goal indeed, but one that will be tough to achieve
Week 1 Indy ran for 202 yards as a team. Since then the Pats run D has let up an average of 91.3 yards per game. That includes the aweful 221 yards vs. Pittsburg. They have gotten very good against the run. Indy won't do nearly that well against them again.Don't underestimate the effectiveness that Dillon brings to this team. He will be the difference maker.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Too many Colts homers? Gimme a break, the NE stench in these boards is putrid. It is just that now the Colts fans can get a word in edgewise because the Pats fans are holding their collective breath and praying for a NE upset this weekend.I'd love to hear more NE fans break down how the Pats will stop the Colts and the Colts have no chance of stopping the Pats. :rotflmao:
djcolts
Footballguy
Let me try to bridge the gap. I'll give some reasons that the Pats will win this game (not a prediction from me or anything - my predictions stink anyway):1. Belichek will come up with a great game plan to slow down the Colts OThere appears to be too many Colts homers for any New England supporter to even make a point without being lambasted. I'm having a tough time reading this thread.
2. The game plan will likely find ways to rush Manning without an all-out blitz or with a blitz from unothrodox angles. This will help the depleted secondary.
3. Brady is really, really good - and owns the Colts. The Colts D has never had a very effective gameplan against Brady yet, even when they had Smith as their featured back.
4. And that brings me to Dillon, who's had an all-pro season - his combination of power and quickness will give the Colts D fits
5. Field conditions and weather - the best case scenario for the Colts is 35 degrees at game time with little wind - and that still isn't great for the Colts
6. Special teams - the Colts probably have a slightly better punter - but how many punts will there be in this game? The big issue is kickoffs and FGs. If Sunday was an indication, the Colts KO unit needs to be much better than it was Sunday. Anyone remember what Bethel Johnson did last year in the regular season matchup at the RCA Dome? And, who would you rather have kick the winning 45 yard FG?
7. Willie McGinest makes a huge, huge play each time against the Colts - what will it be this time?
Edit for a minor spelling problem
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The Pats will only rush 3 or 4 guys. They will drop into zone coverage. Allow the 5-7 yard completions then nail the receivers. The Pats secondary are excellent tacklers, and awesome hitters. After getting smacked for a while the receivers will be looking for the hits before they catch the ball, which means more drops or fumbles.Indy has a very fast, but light defense, which is great in a dome, but get out to where the real football is played and they become pretty ineffective. The Pats will pound Dillon( who was 3rd in the league despite missing 1 game). He had little trouble running through Ray Lewis and company. What makes you thing that Indy will fair any better? That is where the real mis-match of this game will be.
ColtsFreak
Footballguy
How about the flip-side?Let me try to bridge the gap. I'll give some reasons that the Pats will win this game (not a prediction from me or anything - my predictions stink anyway):1. Belichek will come up with a great game plan to slow down the Colts OThere appears to be too many Colts homers for any New England supporter to even make a point without being lambasted. I'm having a tough time reading this thread.
2. The game plan will likely find ways to rush Manning without an all-out blitz or with a blitz from unothrodox angles. This will help the depleted secondary.
3. Brady is really, really good - and owns the Colts. The Colts D has never had a very effective gameplan against Brady yet, even when they had Smith as their featured back.
4. And that brings me to Dillon, who's had an all-pro season - his combination of power and quickness will give the Colts D fits
5. Field conditions and weather - the best case scenario for the Colts is 35 degrees at game time with little wind - and that still isn't great for the Colts
6. Special teams - the Colts probably have a slightly better punter - but how many punts will their be in this game? The big issue is kickoffs and FGs. If Sunday was an indication, the Colts KO unit needs to be much better than it was Sunday. Anyone remember what Bethel Johnson did last year in the regular season matchup at the RCA Dome? And, who would you rather have kick the winning 45 yard FG?
7. Willie McGinest makes a huge, huge play each time against the Colts - what will it be this time?
ColtsFreak
Footballguy
If this was aimed at me for telling workhorse to "get a clue", I apoligize, yet much worse has been said on these boards. It was in no way intended to offend. Carry on!
djcolts
Footballguy
I figure that someone else can do that. If no one else does, maybe I'll do it later.How about the flip-side?Let me try to bridge the gap. I'll give some reasons that the Pats will win this game (not a prediction from me or anything - my predictions stink anyway):1. Belichek will come up with a great game plan to slow down the Colts OThere appears to be too many Colts homers for any New England supporter to even make a point without being lambasted. I'm having a tough time reading this thread.
2. The game plan will likely find ways to rush Manning without an all-out blitz or with a blitz from unothrodox angles. This will help the depleted secondary.
3. Brady is really, really good - and owns the Colts. The Colts D has never had a very effective gameplan against Brady yet, even when they had Smith as their featured back.
4. And that brings me to Dillon, who's had an all-pro season - his combination of power and quickness will give the Colts D fits
5. Field conditions and weather - the best case scenario for the Colts is 35 degrees at game time with little wind - and that still isn't great for the Colts
6. Special teams - the Colts probably have a slightly better punter - but how many punts will their be in this game? The big issue is kickoffs and FGs. If Sunday was an indication, the Colts KO unit needs to be much better than it was Sunday. Anyone remember what Bethel Johnson did last year in the regular season matchup at the RCA Dome? And, who would you rather have kick the winning 45 yard FG?
7. Willie McGinest makes a huge, huge play each time against the Colts - what will it be this time?
There is no flip side.How about the flip-side?Let me try to bridge the gap. I'll give some reasons that the Pats will win this game (not a prediction from me or anything - my predictions stink anyway):1. Belichek will come up with a great game plan to slow down the Colts OThere appears to be too many Colts homers for any New England supporter to even make a point without being lambasted. I'm having a tough time reading this thread.
2. The game plan will likely find ways to rush Manning without an all-out blitz or with a blitz from unothrodox angles. This will help the depleted secondary.
3. Brady is really, really good - and owns the Colts. The Colts D has never had a very effective gameplan against Brady yet, even when they had Smith as their featured back.
4. And that brings me to Dillon, who's had an all-pro season - his combination of power and quickness will give the Colts D fits
5. Field conditions and weather - the best case scenario for the Colts is 35 degrees at game time with little wind - and that still isn't great for the Colts
6. Special teams - the Colts probably have a slightly better punter - but how many punts will their be in this game? The big issue is kickoffs and FGs. If Sunday was an indication, the Colts KO unit needs to be much better than it was Sunday. Anyone remember what Bethel Johnson did last year in the regular season matchup at the RCA Dome? And, who would you rather have kick the winning 45 yard FG?
7. Willie McGinest makes a huge, huge play each time against the Colts - what will it be this time?
Workhorse
Footballguy
I'll give you the flipside:Why the Colts will beat the Pats:(1) Manning has really hit his stride as a playoff QB now that he has so many weapons at his disposal. Particularly, the guys in the slot who can rip through zones in the middle of the field, such as Stokely and Dallas Clark.(2) The depleted Patriots secondary poses TWO major problems against the Colts: First, they will be forced to move Eugene Wilson to CB, leaving an inexperienced FS to judge the deep ball. Second, Wilson on the corner pretty much forces Harrison to play the run "in the box", possibly creating more one-on-one matchups for Wayne and Harrison.(3) The Colts have proven they can run the ball on the Patriots and Manning's play-action will open up the vertical game.(4) Potentially losing Richard Seymour is a huge blow to an otherwise inexperienced defensive line.(5) The Pats O-Line can be exploited with a strong pass rushing front four. Specifically, Matt Light, who has regressed a bit in 2004.(6) The Pats could also be without Kevin Faulk: A major weapon for Tom Brady on 3rd downs out of the backfield and a great change of pace for the running game.(7) Plain and simple: The Colts are due. Manning is too talented to be held down by one team for this long.
rhawkins68
Footballguy
This game is really a toss-up although I just am not sure the Colts D can get the Job done. Colts Win.
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RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
Do the Pats have 6 healthy bodies at DB? If so, I'd stay in a 3-2-6 defense for most of the game, with Teddy Bruschi shadowing Edge as best he can. Hey, it's as good a plan as anyone else has come up with. Meanwhile, Dillon gets 30+ carries and spins clock.
Workhorse
Footballguy
I really think that its as close to a toss-up as it can get.But Brady seems to turn invincible come playoff time. Some guys just have that "next level" in big games and Brady is one of those kinds of players who really step it up on the big stage.Not saying that Manning isn't, but Brady at home in the playoffs finds ways to win.
They've been getting it done, but not very well. A lot of zone and not so much man-to-man. Of the three good passing teams they've played since the injury, they've only played well once:- They beat the Rams because of pressure from DL. Bulger didn't have enough time to make the plays and couldn't take advantage of soft coverage.- Cincinnati threw the ball at will, but lost becaue they turned the ball over too much- Only in the KC game did the DBs play relative well, though they were burned plenty of times.The rest of the schedule included weak passing teams like Buffalo, Baltimore, Cleveland, Miami (who beat them on a passing mismatch), Jets (Pennington still hurt), SF.What does this mean? Indy has a very good OL, so I doubt the Pats can get much pressure on a straight pass rush. With enough time, Manning will be able to make the right reads against a zone defense since he is so good at anticipating the routes and throwing before the WR breaks. So the Pats can only stop Indy's passing game with a combination of two factors:- ConfusionThrow so many different formations and blitz reads that Manning and the OL don't know who's going where. That will neutralize Manning's strength, and Belichick is the master of this.- Extra pressureIn the Super Bowl against the Rams, the Pats had very few blitzes and dropped a lot of players into pass coverage. That strategy takes a lot more talent in the secondary than the Pats have this week. They are going to have to put extra pressure on Manning to force him to release the ball quickly, before the WRs can take advantage of the mismatches.Make no mistake about it, this will be the toughest challenge that BB and his coaching staff has ever had. They've masked their weaknesses all season or offset them by taking advantage of the other team's weaknesses on offense (OL, turnovers). They can't do that this time. People talk about BB always coming up with the perfect game plan. He's going to have to.
ColtsFreak
Footballguy
I wish we didn't have to wait 6 more days for this game. This is going to be great, and the AFC Championship game should be great too.Pats homer, I think the Colts have the edge, but I've come to expect the Pats to step up when it counts and make some big plays. This could be the game of the year, I hope it lives up to it.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Here's the difference: The NE secondary will not be allowed to MUGG the Indy WR's like they blatantly got away with last yearManning has stepped into his own - there is no stopping him - I wouldn't be surprised to see him throw 7 TD's on Sunday.Say what you want about his selfishness during the regular season the fact of the matter is that Manning is an ELITE QB and has proven so this year.You'll find out this weekend NE hopeful why Peyton was MVP.I'm so sick of hearing why Brady is a "clutch" QB .... puh-lease. This guy is no better than Jake Delhomme.Finally justice will be served this Sunday
Turf Toe killed Me
Footballguy
Can't believe so many "sharks" are picking Indy. Oh yeah....this is a fantasy football board.Can't wait to see which of the Colts runs athe first crossing pattern with Rodney Harrison waiting.....Remember the greatest show on turf? Belichick nows how to slow down a team...does Dungy? 
zoonation
Footballguy
couldn't agree more, if they do it. They abandoned the run so early last year, and it was an enormous mistake. Troy Brown cannot cover any of the receivers on the Colts. Manning has a certain calm about him, and the D just has to get a few stops. I think Indy can win this game, but they have to stop the run, and Dillon is a beast.Luke finally beats Vader as Billichick finally loses the chess match to the guy actually on the field.Ind 28NE 24
zoonation
Footballguy
The same way Defensive MVP Ed Reed was waiting for them when the Ravens got easily handled in the second half of that game?And that is a way better secondary than NE's. Indy will move the ball and score with ease, the question in this game is...how much will they have it?Can't believe so many "sharks" are picking Indy. Oh yeah....this is a fantasy football board.Can't wait to see which of the Colts runs athe first crossing pattern with Rodney Harrison waiting.....Remember the greatest show on turf? Belichick nows how to slow down a team...does Dungy?
valhallan
Footballguy
Not a good comparison. Indy marched down the field with 4 straight interference/holding calls, IIRC. Plus, Baltimore's offense is nothing compared to NE's. That's the matchup folks, NE O vs. Indy D, stop focusing on Manning vs. Belichik.The same way Defensive MVP Ed Reed was waiting for them when the Ravens got easily handled in the second half of that game?And that is a way better secondary than NE's. Indy will move the ball and score with ease, the question in this game is...how much will they have it?Can't believe so many "sharks" are picking Indy. Oh yeah....this is a fantasy football board.
Can't wait to see which of the Colts runs athe first crossing pattern with Rodney Harrison waiting.....Remember the greatest show on turf? Belichick nows how to slow down a team...does Dungy?
EDIT: I recalled incorrectly
Anyway, the point is the NE O vs. Indy D matchup will be the key to this game
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Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Hmmmmm and that NE secondary hasn't been taught to clutch and grabFace it NE fans unless NE is allowed to cheat (like they did last year) than they stand virtually little to no chance in this gameNot a good comparison. Indy marched down the field with 4 straight interference/holding calls, IIRC. Plus, Baltimore's offense is nothing compared to NE's.
That's the matchup folks, NE O vs. Indy D, stop focusing on Manning vs. Belichik.
EDIT: I recalled incorrectly
The defence is not what it once used to be and while most of you are screaming the real matchup is NE O vs Indy D your very wishfully thinking.
NE will become one dimensional very quickly once Indy is up 17-3 or 24-10
I also Expect the Indy D to have a minimum of 3 sacks
valhallan
Footballguy
And neither is the NE OHmmmmm and that NE secondary hasn't been taught to clutch and grabFace it NE fans unless NE is allowed to cheat (like they did last year) than they stand virtually little to no chance in this gameNot a good comparison. Indy marched down the field with 4 straight interference/holding calls, IIRC. Plus, Baltimore's offense is nothing compared to NE's.
That's the matchup folks, NE O vs. Indy D, stop focusing on Manning vs. Belichik.
EDIT: I recalled incorrectly
The defence is not what it once used to be
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Manning's never thrown 49 Td's and went to the Super Bowl.This game is a toss up with Law out and it being in NE. I'm going with the Patriots because they have proven they can get the job done. I wouldn't be shocked if Indy won.............both of these 2 teams lose in Pittsburgh.Patriots 28, Indy 24Manning's never scored 28 points and lost a post-season game.Hey, I'm new around here. How does Manning do in big post-season games?LOL.Patriots 31Colts 28Vinatieri evolves into pure energy.
purestrength
Footballguy
Rodney Harrison will have about as much success next Sunday as John Lynch did this past Sunday.Only horrible weather can slow down the Colts' offense this time.Can't believe so many "sharks" are picking Indy. Oh yeah....this is a fantasy football board.Can't wait to see which of the Colts runs athe first crossing pattern with Rodney Harrison waiting.....Remember the greatest show on turf? Belichick nows how to slow down a team...does Dungy?
humans_being
Footballguy
Sorry, but i gotta throw the flag on that one.
S'not gonna happen.
ICON211
Footballguy
I am just wondering what excuse the Peyton Manning apologists will have next week around this time when they lose to the Pats. Maybe he will throw another 4 INTs and point his finger all over the field like none of them were his fault again and have another rule emphasized for next year. Maybe next year they can make a rule for Manning that teams are not allowed to tackle Colt receivers. No excuses this year if he folds AGAIN with that secondary.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I wonder what excuse RedSoxNation...errr...Patriot Bandwagon Fans will have next week after Manning decimates them.(They'll probably cry that they weren't allowed to tackle the receivers before the ball left Manning's hand. That'll be the first order of business, for sure.)
you need to bet a ton on the Colts then, because they are 1 or 2 point dogs at virtually every sportsbook around.Pats have won 18 straight games at home...saying they have no chance is a bit
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Well, I began conservatively and said Colts 27-Pats 24But Screw It!!!!! The gloves are coming off! The Colts will not only win, but they will destroy the Pats. This is a 14+ game! If I were in Vegas, I'd move the line 14 and take the Colts! I wonder what kind of odds I'd be getting on that action?Temperature at kickoff, ~28F. I couldn't have asked for better weather!Revised official prediction...Colts 35Pats 21One question...When the Colts win, do any of you Pats fans have tickets you'd like to get rid of? I'll pay 150% of face value and would want 4 or more. 
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Turf Toe killed Me
Footballguy
This is why Vegas LOVES when "playas" hang around the table to long. They eventually lose their mind and give it all back to the house!Well, I began conservatively and said Colts 27-Pats 24But Screw It!!!!! The gloves are coming off! The Colts will not only win, but they will destroy the Pats. This is a 14+ game! If I were in Vegas, I'd move the line 14 and take the Colts! I wonder what kind of odds I'd be getting on that action?Temperature at kickoff, ~28F. I couldn't have asked for better weather!Revised official prediction...Colts 35Pats 21One question...When the Colts win, do any of you Pats fans have tickets you'd like to get rid of? I'll pay 150% of face value and would want 4 or more.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
This, ahem, brilliant post is as good as any other Colts-supporting drek spewn forth in this thread, so I'll reply to it.Manning is O-fer his ENTIRE CAREER. He is a 100 million dollar loser.Florida State owned him in college and New England owns him in the pros.He is 0 for 6 in his last 6 starts in Foxboro, and 1 for 6 in his last 6 versus Belichick.But what about Ty Law being injured? Surely that means the vaunted Colts offense will make mincemeat of the now lowly Pats D?Do you realize how long Law and Poole have been out?!?! The Patriots have played half a season without the services of Ty Law and have done just fine without him, thank you very much.The recipe for beating Manning is trivial. All you have to do is spring him from the pocket. His stats nose-dive when he's on the run. Belichick knows this, from prior success, and will send the kitchen sink at Manning. The replacements in the Pats secondary will be protected by the pass rush.The recipe for beating the Colts defense is as trivial. You double-team Freeny with a lineman and a tight end and you shred them with a balanced attack.How soon we forget that the media love-affair for Manning this year is just a re-hash of the platitudes laid at his feet last year, pre-Foxboro. He WILL throw at least two picks, and the Colts WILL lose this game.And you can take that to the bank.I'm revising my predictionIt's this type of humor that keeps me coming back to the board.Bring perspective or go back to reading the brilliance of others.
ats 31Colts 17Oh yeah, one more thing. Your team is soft.Commence flaming, please.
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
ITYM "Florida"...
Bruno Tataglia
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure it was the Gators.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
I agree with some of what you say but not the part about you saying the NE pass defense has only played well once against the 3 good passing teams it has faced since losing Law.You can't discount the STL game simply because NE's DL applied a lot of pressure. That makes no sense since pressure from the DL is part of any teams pass defense. So rather than saying of the 3 good teams they faced they only played well once it would have been more accurate IMO to say they played fairly well in 2 out of the 3.Truth be told NE's pass defense has been real SPOTTY at times this year and by spotty I mean atrocious. But keep in mind they have had a lot of turnover in the defensive backfield and it's gone well beyond just Poole & Law. They have also at the same time been missing Samuel, Gay and Reid. IMO some of the spotty play has been due more to multiple 3rd stringers not having time to become cohesive than simply a lack of talented players.No question that losing Law weakens them but the remaining backfield is a lot stronger than so many seem to be giving them credit for. Assante Samuel & Randall Gay aren't bad and the Eugene Wilson/Rodney Harrison safety combo is about as good as any in football. Having said that it is undeniable that after that the talent drops off considerably. Brown, Moreland, Reid (great ST) and Davis are serviceable at best. It will be interesting to see how BB schemes to minimize the exposure of the latter. Contrary to popular belief NE's secondary should be as healthy and cohesive as they have been in the last 8 weeks. If they use the extra week they have to prepare wisely (there is no reason to think they won't) then IMO they are unlikely to be nearly as overmatched as so many in the national media and on this board are predicting.
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Just fine without Ty Law?I don't think you appreciate what Ty Law did in 2001 and 2003. No way on earth do the Patriots win those Superbowls without him. Tom Brady was not more valuable to the Patriots than Ty Law was in those years. You're crazy to think a healthy Ty Law wouldn't greatly enhance New England's chances against Indy.This, ahem, brilliant post is as good as any other Colts-supporting drek spewn forth in this thread, so I'll reply to it.Manning is O-fer his ENTIRE CAREER. He is a 100 million dollar loser.Florida State owned him in college and New England owns him in the pros.He is 0 for 6 in his last 6 starts in Foxboro, and 1 for 6 in his last 6 versus Belichick.But what about Ty Law being injured? Surely that means the vaunted Colts offense will make mincemeat of the now lowly Pats D?Do you realize how long Law and Poole have been out?!?! The Patriots have played half a season without the services of Ty Law and have done just fine without him, thank you very much.The recipe for beating Manning is trivial. All you have to do is spring him from the pocket. His stats nose-dive when he's on the run. Belichick knows this, from prior success, and will send the kitchen sink at Manning. The replacements in the Pats secondary will be protected by the pass rush.The recipe for beating the Colts defense is as trivial. You double-team Freeny with a lineman and a tight end and you shred them with a balanced attack.How soon we forget that the media love-affair for Manning this year is just a re-hash of the platitudes laid at his feet last year, pre-Foxboro. He WILL throw at least two picks, and the Colts WILL lose this game.And you can take that to the bank.I'm revising my predictionIt's this type of humor that keeps me coming back to the board.
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