What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** Official Real Estate Forum *** (3 Viewers)

Mike Anderson said:
Anyone want to comment on this property?

multi family

This (shelby co.) website says it rents for 950/mo. Also says "MOTIVATED SELLER WANTS OFFER!!! POSSIBLE SHORT SALE OPORTUNITY CONTINGENT UPON BANK ACCEPTANCE" so I could maybe get it for low 50's.
Why haven't you made an offer already...as in yesterday...biggest no-brainer in the history of earth. :lmao: Man I wish I was in your market. That's a $150K home here in the worst case, more likely in the $200s. Looks great from the outside...surely the inside can't be that bad in the grass and exterior look that nice. Like the corner lot for rental exposure. Check and make sure the utitilies have been split, especially that gas heat.My perministic side says why would anyone have to "short sale" something that pays itself off in 8 years. If it's the real deal, I would try to get cute on the offer and lose it.
My Gut reaction was Gold, probably priced slightly high, but Gold. If I climb up into the $60-70K range, these are all over my Market. I generally operate at a lower buy in.In our type of Market, $47-50K would be about right for a building like that. However, it has great curb apeal, and what looks like a Good roof. I would assume that the Guts are great, and that the inside looks good. $60K is not out of the question if it is fantastic and turn key. $55K if it's great.

Absolutely need to know about who Pays Utilities. That could beat you up with Owner paid Heat/Tenant in control of Thermostat.

I like it alot. You ought to get inside. As a Short sale, an Investor bought it for way too much, couldn't cover expenses, and it is going to be closer to market value now. OR, they didn't screen tenants, and the place is trashed, and producing money. You need to poke around inside.

Have you driven around the property and looked at it now? That picture is obviously from late Summer of 2006. It's got to be 9 months old. Why wasn't a current picture used??? :confused:
If you use the second link it shows pictures of the interior. Only one (2 bed) unit is currently rented, the other was being rehabbed. Here's the commentary from the other website that has it listed.coldwell banker

STATELY "TURN OF THE CENTURY" SPACIOUS 2 FAMILY DUPLEX. TWO BEDROOM UNIT DOWNSTAIRS IS PRESENTLY RENTED AND COULD POSSIBLY BE USED AS A 3 BEDROOM. UPSTAIRS UNIT HAS BEEN PARTIALLY UPDATED AND NEEDS MINIMAL WORK TO FINISH AND BECOME AN INCOME PRODUCING LARGE 2-3 BEDROOM UNIT. NEWER KITCHEN AND BATHS. NEWER WIRING AND ELECTRIC SERVICE UPSTAIRS NEEDS COMPLETION. NICE WRAPAROUND FRONT PROCH CAN BE ENJOYED BY BOTH UNITS. CONVENIENT DOWNTOWN LOCATION.

 
Mike Anderson said:
A few Places in the Fort as I look around tonight

$60K Triplex, Currently brings in $1155 a Month

$62K Duplex, $900 a month

$62K Duplex, $930 a month

$65k Duplex, $950 a month, two new furnaces

$65K Fourplex, $1400 a Month

$70K Fourplex, $1365 a Month

I LOVE this one! I have been in it Countless times. I wish I had jumped a few years ago when it was on the market for $23K

$72K Duplex, $1150 a month
I might also think about this one. Its in a pretty bad hood and I think its condemned.$18K $700/mo duplex, condemned

INVESTMENT PROPERTY WITH INCOME POTENTIAL FOR THE RIGHT BUYER LOOKING FOR A HANDYMAN PROJECT. PREVIOUSLY RENTED FOR $350 MONTH EACH SIDE THROUGH METROPOLITAN HOUSING. TENANT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL UTILITIES. IN NEED OF REPAIRS. ONE SIDE HAS HAD THE WORK STARTED. SELLING "AS IS". SALE CONTINGENT UPON BANK APPROVAL OF A SHORT SALE AMOUNT.

Anyone know what metro housing is and how to do it?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can only think of a couple of things more foolish than not using an Agent when the seller has already listed. One of those couple of things is using the Selling agent as your Agent.Completely the wrong move here in every way.
help me understand why I should trust an agent that I dont know at all whom only makes money when I spend lots of money?
That really depends on your interview skills, but the fact of the matter is that referrels drive this business. I don't even advertise any more. Almost most every phone call I get from a potential client starts off with...so and so recommended you, you've been handling their property and they're very happy.... The money I make off of you is really inconsequential, the real money comes from the 3-4 four people that you rave about my service to and then the 3-4 to four they people each of them recommend me too. You don't last long in this business with a take the money and run approach.
What does that have to do with my point? I am willing to do the work outlined above instead of taking a chance I dont get a good agent. What is so wrong with that? Have I made incorrect statements in the level of effort? Have I trivialized collecting the state developed disclosure form? Did I trivilize the the state developed offer form?I am still getting a lawyer. He will still review all of my work and help me along the way. But someone please corect me if I am wrong in sasying that a Buyers Agent (not sellers agent) does not do a whole lot of work. They dont negotiate on your behalf. They dont rersearch on your behalf. They give you information they have, drive you around, and help you understand what your getting into.Look, if my best friend was an agent, I would use them in a second. For the most part, it isnt about any money I may be able to negotiate out of the selling price of the home. To me it is about not having to double-check someone elses work, their figures, their reasons for recommendations, etc. When I bought my last house, I was the one who called the county to see how much was owed on the water/sewer. I was the one who found out my sellers were in chapter 13. I was the one who called the county for a proper plat. I was the one who called for the HOA setbacks, critical water areas, etc.Look, I am not trying to demean a buyers agent. If Im wrong, and I REALLY do need one, please convince me as why. The worst thing I can hear right now is that I should have one just because the seller is paying for them.
Okay, let's assume you've got years of experience in RE and can spot things most people can't. Now that we agree on that, you have already shown you can do the legwork needed.Now let me ask you how you feel about doing all that work for free. Sound like a good deal? Because whether you use a buyers agent or not - the home price isn't going to drop unless you buy a FSBO. The listing agent has a commission - they will split that with another agent. Your state maybe different, but I know when I looked without an agent it didn't matter one bit on price for non-FSBO's.Good ones do negotiate on your behalf, and advise you. What you might want to try doing is checking out a couple local ones that are accreditted and itnerview them. If you're already on the hook for doing the whole job yourself - maybe you can find someone who can help you for free, sicne you're not paying them.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.Spot what? What specifically do I need to spot? Something that wont be in the state disclosure form? Wasnt the state disclosure form developed so everything is covered?The MA Standard offer form has a line for how much money will go to the sellers agent as well as how much will go to the buyers agent. For my offers I will leave the buyers agent field blank, and take that % off of the price of the house. The sellers agent and the seller shouldnt care. They will make the same amount of money.Good ones that I can trust. How do I know I can trust someone? Why should I believe some agent is going to go the extra mile for me? COnsidering some cases where I might not fin something they overlooked for years down the road. Unless that person is my best friend, I am going to check their work. No matter what, I am going to follow up on all the details. That is my personality. I have serious fears of getting hoodwinked. Paranoia almost.I am very interested in doing what it right. At the present time I dont have enough reasons in the Pro column for having a buyers agent.
 
I can only think of a couple of things more foolish than not using an Agent when the seller has already listed. One of those couple of things is using the Selling agent as your Agent.Completely the wrong move here in every way.
help me understand why I should trust an agent that I dont know at all whom only makes money when I spend lots of money?
That really depends on your interview skills, but the fact of the matter is that referrels drive this business. I don't even advertise any more. Almost most every phone call I get from a potential client starts off with...so and so recommended you, you've been handling their property and they're very happy.... The money I make off of you is really inconsequential, the real money comes from the 3-4 four people that you rave about my service to and then the 3-4 to four they people each of them recommend me too. You don't last long in this business with a take the money and run approach.
What does that have to do with my point? I am willing to do the work outlined above instead of taking a chance I dont get a good agent. What is so wrong with that? Have I made incorrect statements in the level of effort? Have I trivialized collecting the state developed disclosure form? Did I trivilize the the state developed offer form?I am still getting a lawyer. He will still review all of my work and help me along the way. But someone please corect me if I am wrong in sasying that a Buyers Agent (not sellers agent) does not do a whole lot of work. They dont negotiate on your behalf. They dont rersearch on your behalf. They give you information they have, drive you around, and help you understand what your getting into.Look, if my best friend was an agent, I would use them in a second. For the most part, it isnt about any money I may be able to negotiate out of the selling price of the home. To me it is about not having to double-check someone elses work, their figures, their reasons for recommendations, etc. When I bought my last house, I was the one who called the county to see how much was owed on the water/sewer. I was the one who found out my sellers were in chapter 13. I was the one who called the county for a proper plat. I was the one who called for the HOA setbacks, critical water areas, etc.Look, I am not trying to demean a buyers agent. If Im wrong, and I REALLY do need one, please convince me as why. The worst thing I can hear right now is that I should have one just because the seller is paying for them.
All I can say is that I'm a licensed agent and used a buyer's agent for a property in another county even though I could have done this myself and collected a commission. She hooked me up on a property that has me $75K to the good on a $225K initial investment...wouldn't have happened with out her and would be in someone elses pocket. A good agent should do those things you are looking for. It's a matter of finding the right one and making your expectations clear. I suspect that interview process would be a lot quicker than doing the work yourself. Now my opinion may be warped since I'm self-employed, but time=money to me. I don't change my oil even though I know how because I can make more doing other things.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.I consider myself a very good interviewer. I also consider myself a very good interviewee. I cant think of questions that I could ask that the responder couldnt just give me answers as I want to hear them. There are proper answers in this business, and improper answers. Also, I dont have much recourse if an agent does me wrong. I would need to prove so much, and in the end I would still be screwed even if I was proven right.Time is money. I would rather do all the work myself instead of taking the chance that the agent I get does not do a thorough job to the extent that I need to double check all their work.The agent that did the house for you, how good of a friend were they?
 
I can only think of a couple of things more foolish than not using an Agent when the seller has already listed. One of those couple of things is using the Selling agent as your Agent.Completely the wrong move here in every way.
help me understand why I should trust an agent that I dont know at all whom only makes money when I spend lots of money?
That really depends on your interview skills, but the fact of the matter is that referrels drive this business. I don't even advertise any more. Almost most every phone call I get from a potential client starts off with...so and so recommended you, you've been handling their property and they're very happy.... The money I make off of you is really inconsequential, the real money comes from the 3-4 four people that you rave about my service to and then the 3-4 to four they people each of them recommend me too. You don't last long in this business with a take the money and run approach.
What does that have to do with my point? I am willing to do the work outlined above instead of taking a chance I dont get a good agent. What is so wrong with that? Have I made incorrect statements in the level of effort? Have I trivialized collecting the state developed disclosure form? Did I trivilize the the state developed offer form?I am still getting a lawyer. He will still review all of my work and help me along the way. But someone please corect me if I am wrong in sasying that a Buyers Agent (not sellers agent) does not do a whole lot of work. They dont negotiate on your behalf. They dont rersearch on your behalf. They give you information they have, drive you around, and help you understand what your getting into.Look, if my best friend was an agent, I would use them in a second. For the most part, it isnt about any money I may be able to negotiate out of the selling price of the home. To me it is about not having to double-check someone elses work, their figures, their reasons for recommendations, etc. When I bought my last house, I was the one who called the county to see how much was owed on the water/sewer. I was the one who found out my sellers were in chapter 13. I was the one who called the county for a proper plat. I was the one who called for the HOA setbacks, critical water areas, etc.Look, I am not trying to demean a buyers agent. If Im wrong, and I REALLY do need one, please convince me as why. The worst thing I can hear right now is that I should have one just because the seller is paying for them.
JAA, First, I hold a RE Leicence, and my Wife is a Practicing agent.That said, Agents are mostly worthless, and get paid way too much for what they do.95% of the time, you won't need an agent in the slightest. Of the 5% where that Agent would save your ###, and keep you out of trouble, about 50% of those Agents you might be using at the time don't know what to watch for or how to save you. So at best, you could need an agent, and that agent could actually help you, say... under 3% of the time, and I am likely being generous here.Average FBG home buyer who might buy 3-4 homes in a lifetime will most likely never come close to needing an Agents help. The odds that they would need help are nothing compared to the odds that the agent they use is basically incompetent.OK, can you tell that I have basically the same philosphy on Agents as you do?That said, you had a Bad Agent last time. I have used Buyers Agents, and they have been research machines. I tell them what I need to know, and they go and get the info. At the end of the Day, it's your deal, put your Agent to Work.Here is why you shouldn't deal with the Selling Agent directly:Even if the Selling agent has you sign the Dual Agent Paperwork, Understand that the agent isn't working for you. They are working for the seller. It does them no good to drive the price down for you. If you ever find yourself sitting in one of the various Realtor Meetings, one of the concepts that is taught is that More referals are driven through the seller side. Sellers generally have the same demographic, and are established in the community.Doing right by a Seller drives more listings. A Seller will tell their friends who are more likely getting close to a seller possition as well. Sellers are Out of town transfers where they refer others in their company, which creates a Listing stream. Young upwardly moble couples who tell other young upwardly moble couples (This works out great as you normally get part of two deals). Older people, who refer you to their older friends.The chance for good working referals from Buyers are much more of a Longshot.Add that you need listings to survive. An Agent who never lists will most likely be let go by the Agency they work for. Listings drive offices. No listings, and the office dies.If an Agent is working for both of you, he is working for the seller in every way.*******************Now, if you must proceed in this poor direction....What you want to be is the path of MOST resistance. You want to be a royal pain in the rear in negiotiation. The Agent knows they are getting a Monster check as they get both sides of the deal, Buyer and seller. This is a Huge paycheck for them.You need to be a Ball buster, to the point that the Agent believes the deal won't happen if you don't get what you want. Seriously, I can't be more straight with you here. The Agent has to know that you will kill the deal, but that you are a very strong buyer who can close with zero issues.At that point, the $7K, $10K, whatever it is to the Realtor, becomes the most important thing in their mind. They can make that money only if the two sides agree. The Agent will do everything to hold on to you because they get both sides of the deal. If another Agent brought the deal, even if it is for more, they will make MUCH less as it is only one side, not "Double-Dipping". Agents brag about "DDing"So, if you are more difficult to deal with, they will likely be able to taste that big payday, and start working over the Seller.This is bad for them long term, but America is full of Instant Satisfaction type people.There is a Reason their are so many part time Realtors. It can be easy money, and you don't really need to know what you are doing.You're best bet is to always take free representation, and put them to work for you.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.I would never sign dual agency papers.
You're best bet is to always take free representation, and put them to work for you.
i couldnt disagee more with this statement. This statement is only valid if you can garuntee the representation I get is great. Can you garuntee that? Is there any way to garuntee that? If I dont like the way my agent handled the deal, can I ask them to take less of a %?
 
Okay, let's assume you've got years of experience in RE and can spot things most people can't. Now that we agree on that, you have already shown you can do the legwork needed.Now let me ask you how you feel about doing all that work for free. Sound like a good deal? Because whether you use a buyers agent or not - the home price isn't going to drop unless you buy a FSBO. The listing agent has a commission - they will split that with another agent. Your state maybe different, but I know when I looked without an agent it didn't matter one bit on price for non-FSBO's.Good ones do negotiate on your behalf, and advise you. What you might want to try doing is checking out a couple local ones that are accreditted and itnerview them. If you're already on the hook for doing the whole job yourself - maybe you can find someone who can help you for free, sicne you're not paying them.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.Spot what? What specifically do I need to spot? Something that wont be in the state disclosure form? Wasnt the state disclosure form developed so everything is covered?The MA Standard offer form has a line for how much money will go to the sellers agent as well as how much will go to the buyers agent. For my offers I will leave the buyers agent field blank, and take that % off of the price of the house. The sellers agent and the seller shouldnt care. They will make the same amount of money.Good ones that I can trust. How do I know I can trust someone? Why should I believe some agent is going to go the extra mile for me? COnsidering some cases where I might not fin something they overlooked for years down the road. Unless that person is my best friend, I am going to check their work. No matter what, I am going to follow up on all the details. That is my personality. I have serious fears of getting hoodwinked. Paranoia almost.I am very interested in doing what it right. At the present time I dont have enough reasons in the Pro column for having a buyers agent.
Let me you ask you a simple question: Are you an expert on everything?Here's what they can spot. Let's say they see a house with 2 sump pumps. Things might be okay with the 2 pumps, and nothing looks bad. You might not know that's a red flag, because one should have been enough. Maybe they can spot some signs that a neighborhood is on the decline, and you can't. Or they know a neighborhood so well, they know which blocks are better than others in the same area. Or anything that comes with experience. You have none, but it won't matter, - the disclosure form tells you everything, right?I'm guessing you think you can get all this info on the disclosure form - you can't. Sometimes people lie on it, but you can't prove they are lying. Sometimes they seller is religiously or politically connected in the neighborhood, and it's hard to get a straight answer. Some things like neighborhood info, just aren't part of that form.I don't know hwo you determine you can trust someone - quite probably YOU determine that you can never trust someone - due to near paranoia. Given that, you can't ever work with anyone, right?But you're a good interviewer, so you should be able to tell who knows stuff and who doesn't.Frankly, the fact that you need to post the following:
"- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong."
tells a lot. It would have me sensing a ton of hostility & distrust from you in all situations. I think if you were interviewing for a job I had, I'd let you know you didn't get it fairly early on, so we stopped wasting each other's time. If I was looking to work for you, I wouldn't, because it would end badly. In fact, I've prematurely ended interviews for jobs & as a freelancer when I sense a bad fit. I think you are a bad fit to have someone working for you.How do you know the lawyer is competent, out of curiosity?
 
Okay, let's assume you've got years of experience in RE and can spot things most people can't. Now that we agree on that, you have already shown you can do the legwork needed.Now let me ask you how you feel about doing all that work for free. Sound like a good deal? Because whether you use a buyers agent or not - the home price isn't going to drop unless you buy a FSBO. The listing agent has a commission - they will split that with another agent. Your state maybe different, but I know when I looked without an agent it didn't matter one bit on price for non-FSBO's.Good ones do negotiate on your behalf, and advise you. What you might want to try doing is checking out a couple local ones that are accreditted and itnerview them. If you're already on the hook for doing the whole job yourself - maybe you can find someone who can help you for free, sicne you're not paying them.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.Spot what? What specifically do I need to spot? Something that wont be in the state disclosure form? Wasnt the state disclosure form developed so everything is covered?The MA Standard offer form has a line for how much money will go to the sellers agent as well as how much will go to the buyers agent. For my offers I will leave the buyers agent field blank, and take that % off of the price of the house. The sellers agent and the seller shouldnt care. They will make the same amount of money.Good ones that I can trust. How do I know I can trust someone? Why should I believe some agent is going to go the extra mile for me? COnsidering some cases where I might not fin something they overlooked for years down the road. Unless that person is my best friend, I am going to check their work. No matter what, I am going to follow up on all the details. That is my personality. I have serious fears of getting hoodwinked. Paranoia almost.I am very interested in doing what it right. At the present time I dont have enough reasons in the Pro column for having a buyers agent.
Let me you ask you a simple question: Are you an expert on everything?Here's what they can spot. Let's say they see a house with 2 sump pumps. Things might be okay with the 2 pumps, and nothing looks bad. You might not know that's a red flag, because one should have been enough. Maybe they can spot some signs that a neighborhood is on the decline, and you can't. Or they know a neighborhood so well, they know which blocks are better than others in the same area. Or anything that comes with experience. You have none, but it won't matter, - the disclosure form tells you everything, right?
My assumption is that my home inspector will be providing me the proper information on the sump pumps and other areas that I am not an expert in. Also, if something potentially fishy comes up like 2 sump pumps, I am going to post here. Would you respond to my question honestly here if you knew I didnt have an agent? I think you and many others here would. It isnt that I dont like agents, its that for me, I think it will be too much hassle. I am not a trusting person. Almost paranoid.
I'm guessing you think you can get all this info on the disclosure form - you can't. Sometimes people lie on it, but you can't prove they are lying. Sometimes they seller is religiously or politically connected in the neighborhood, and it's hard to get a straight answer. Some things like neighborhood info, just aren't part of that form.
I have lots and lots of recourse if someone lies on a disclosure form. Not the same recourse if an agent tells me something I want to hear.
I don't know hwo you determine you can trust someone - quite probably YOU determine that you can never trust someone - due to near paranoia. Given that, you can't ever work with anyone, right?
With things as big as buying a house, I take it very very seriously. So, they answer to your question is yes, I have serious trust issues.
But you're a good interviewer, so you should be able to tell who knows stuff and who doesn't.
Yes. My issue isnt really finding a good agent per se, its also that I will need to double check all of their work because of who I am. If I am going to do all the work anyway, what is the value in the agent?
Frankly, the fact that you need to post the following:

"- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong."
tells a lot. It would have me sensing a ton of hostility & distrust from you in all situations. I think if you were interviewing for a job I had, I'd let you know you didn't get it fairly early on, so we stopped wasting each other's time. If I was looking to work for you, I wouldn't, because it would end badly. In fact, I've prematurely ended interviews for jobs & as a freelancer when I sense a bad fit. I think you are a bad fit to have someone working for you.
im not sure I agree with your analogy. However, if thats what works for you, you should roll that way. Im sharing how things work for me. Also, if you havnt noticed, the FFA isnt the most calm and tranquil environment. I get called argumentative lots. I also get called close minded a lot. As it happens, Im very open minded. However, I need to be convinced. THough when I am convinced, I do accept being wrong and feel great in the fact that I am making the right decision irregardless of whoose idea it was.
How do you know the lawyer is competent, out of curiosity?
Good question. The lawyer helped my BIL buy his condo. At the 9th hour the lawyer found an easemond(sp) issue with the driveway and a neighbor. No one probably would have blamed the lawyer had it not been found. No one probably would have cared it not been found. However, they lawyer found it and corrected it. I was impressed with that.Also, when I spoke with the lawyer, he spent just about the first hour convincing me to get an agent just like folks here have. He has been doing this work in the area for a long time. I was impressed with how well he knew the business and the area.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's where an agent helps you:

1. When they find the house has 2 sump pumps - they tell you to walk away - you never waste time on going & paying for the inspection.

2. Do you have an inspector lined up? If so, ask the inspector & lawyer to recommend agents. If they trust them, that should mean you can at least interview them.

3. People lie on disclosures - when they can get away with it. It hard to prove what some other guy knew. Especially when they are a minister - and it assumed they never lie; I can tell you first hand about the nightmare that was.

4. Thought of another thing an agent really can do for you that isn't debateable, but might not help you much: You get the "scoop" on certain homes before they hit the market -generally those listed with their agency, or that had some sort of open house for agents before it goes on the MLS. This isn't a ton of houses, but I've seen 3-4 houses before they hit the MLS that way.

Seriously, you should just interview an agent or 2.

 
Here's where an agent helps you:1. When they find the house has 2 sump pumps - they tell you to walk away - you never waste time on going & paying for the inspection.
As a recent buyer and seller of a house with two sump pumps, I'll bite. Whats the deal with this?
 
Here's where an agent helps you:1. When they find the house has 2 sump pumps - they tell you to walk away - you never waste time on going & paying for the inspection. 2. Do you have an inspector lined up? If so, ask the inspector & lawyer to recommend agents. If they trust them, that should mean you can at least interview them.3. People lie on disclosures - when they can get away with it. It hard to prove what some other guy knew. Especially when they are a minister - and it assumed they never lie; I can tell you first hand about the nightmare that was.4. Thought of another thing an agent really can do for you that isn't debateable, but might not help you much: You get the "scoop" on certain homes before they hit the market -generally those listed with their agency, or that had some sort of open house for agents before it goes on the MLS. This isn't a ton of houses, but I've seen 3-4 houses before they hit the MLS that way.Seriously, you should just interview an agent or 2.
Steve, I think it comes down to personal preference. I'm with JAA on this. If I have someone that is doing a lot of the leg work for me, I am going to end up doing it myself. Its not a trust issue. Its called doing your due diligence. After all, if I am going to be buying a 400k house, why in the world would I skip on getting an inspection? And then why would I skip on walking around with the inspector and having him explain why there are two sump pumps? And why would I skip hiring the right inspector for me versus the guy my agent recommends? As for that, there could a good reason why there are two pumps. I want to know the reasoning behind it and not just have someone tell me to walk away from a deal where there may be a lot of money to be made. Like you said in one of your points, People lie. Whether they are working for me or against me, they still do. Your note about #4 is correct. But if you are known to the realtors in your area, and are buying, they will call you with these deals directly. You don't need a buyer's agent to find these. For example, I looked at one house that didn't suit my needs. As we were leaving the realtor wanted to show me another one that wasn't listed yet. I didn't have an agent. He knew he had a buyer, and if he matched the buyer and sellers, he would get the commission.
 
Here's where an agent helps you:1. When they find the house has 2 sump pumps - they tell you to walk away - you never waste time on going & paying for the inspection.
As a recent buyer and seller of a house with two sump pumps, I'll bite. Whats the deal with this?
i don't know. I would rather buy a house with two pumps, and no water damage, than a house with no pumps and questionable stains...
 
I can only think of a couple of things more foolish than not using an Agent when the seller has already listed. One of those couple of things is using the Selling agent as your Agent.Completely the wrong move here in every way.
help me understand why I should trust an agent that I dont know at all whom only makes money when I spend lots of money?
That really depends on your interview skills, but the fact of the matter is that referrels drive this business. I don't even advertise any more. Almost most every phone call I get from a potential client starts off with...so and so recommended you, you've been handling their property and they're very happy.... The money I make off of you is really inconsequential, the real money comes from the 3-4 four people that you rave about my service to and then the 3-4 to four they people each of them recommend me too. You don't last long in this business with a take the money and run approach.
What does that have to do with my point? I am willing to do the work outlined above instead of taking a chance I dont get a good agent. What is so wrong with that? Have I made incorrect statements in the level of effort? Have I trivialized collecting the state developed disclosure form? Did I trivilize the the state developed offer form?I am still getting a lawyer. He will still review all of my work and help me along the way. But someone please corect me if I am wrong in sasying that a Buyers Agent (not sellers agent) does not do a whole lot of work. They dont negotiate on your behalf. They dont rersearch on your behalf. They give you information they have, drive you around, and help you understand what your getting into.Look, if my best friend was an agent, I would use them in a second. For the most part, it isnt about any money I may be able to negotiate out of the selling price of the home. To me it is about not having to double-check someone elses work, their figures, their reasons for recommendations, etc. When I bought my last house, I was the one who called the county to see how much was owed on the water/sewer. I was the one who found out my sellers were in chapter 13. I was the one who called the county for a proper plat. I was the one who called for the HOA setbacks, critical water areas, etc.Look, I am not trying to demean a buyers agent. If Im wrong, and I REALLY do need one, please convince me as why. The worst thing I can hear right now is that I should have one just because the seller is paying for them.
All I can say is that I'm a licensed agent and used a buyer's agent for a property in another county even though I could have done this myself and collected a commission. She hooked me up on a property that has me $75K to the good on a $225K initial investment...wouldn't have happened with out her and would be in someone elses pocket. A good agent should do those things you are looking for. It's a matter of finding the right one and making your expectations clear. I suspect that interview process would be a lot quicker than doing the work yourself. Now my opinion may be warped since I'm self-employed, but time=money to me. I don't change my oil even though I know how because I can make more doing other things.
- please take this response with a grain of salt. It is going to come off argumentative, and I appologize up front for that. Unfortunately, it is who I am and how I work. While it may not seem like it, I am open minded about this choice. However, I am not a person who can just accept something, I need to be proven wrong.I consider myself a very good interviewer. I also consider myself a very good interviewee. I cant think of questions that I could ask that the responder couldnt just give me answers as I want to hear them. There are proper answers in this business, and improper answers. Also, I dont have much recourse if an agent does me wrong. I would need to prove so much, and in the end I would still be screwed even if I was proven right.Time is money. I would rather do all the work myself instead of taking the chance that the agent I get does not do a thorough job to the extent that I need to double check all their work.The agent that did the house for you, how good of a friend were they?
Actually after reading your replies, you shouldn't get an agent. If I couldn't sleep worrying about whether or not the Jiffy Lube Tech put the oil drain back in within the torque specifications for the vechicle, I'd change my own oil too. Personally I think you may miss some opportunities, but for you the process is probably more important than the end result.Regarding that agent, first time I had done business with them. I talked with several different people and did my research before settling on her company. I explained exactly what I was looking for and we went from there. She did such a good job that I have her investigating other opportunities for me. Kind of cool but she was doing leg work for me while I was hunting and partying with friends all weekend. When she finds something that meets my criteria I'll break away and check it out.
 
Thought those interested in this thread would be interested in seeing this....

WaMu Offers New All-In-One Mortgage

Thursday April 26, 12:24 am ET

By Elizabeth M. Gillespie, AP Business Writer

WaMu Offers New All-In-One Mortgage, Home Equity Loan That Allows Customers to Reset Rates

SEATTLE (AP) -- Washington Mutual Inc. has begun offering a new mortgage and home equity line of credit bundled into a single loan that allows customers to reset interest rates or switch between fixed and adjustable rates up to twice a year without having to refinance.

The Seattle-based thrift said WaMu Mortgage Plus is designed to help consumers take advantage of changes in their financial needs or market conditions without having to bother with mounds of refinancing paperwork or steep fees.

"We constructed this product with an eye toward what we think is a very large group of customers ... looking for more control and flexibility," Steve Rotella, Washington Mutual's president and chief operating officer, told The Associated Press.

Washington Mutual, the country's largest savings and loan, began offering WaMu Mortgage Plus in mid-March and is kicking off a nationwide marketing push Thursday.

The company will charge customers $250 each time they reset terms of their mortgage-home equity loan, up to twice a year, though the first reset will be free. It won't cost anything to switch from a fixed rate -- generally viewed as the safer option -- to an adjustable rate.

Borrowers have to put 10 percent down, but Washington Mutual charges no origination fees and waives various other costs home buyers typically pay, such as appraisal and title fees.

Once borrowers begin paying down their mortgage, they'll be able to tap into their equity with a check, cash advance or, in most states, a credit card. That available line of credit will grow as they pay down their mortgage.

Rotella said that by giving customers a simpler way to get cash for remodeling projects, college tuition and the like, Washington Mutual should be able to retain customers who might otherwise refinance with another lender.

Rotella acknowledged that some banks offer products with similar features, but he predicted that Washington Mutual "will grab market share from our competitors" because it's the only one offering the features as an all-in-one package.

Jim Bradshaw, an analyst with D.A. Davidson, said as long as the product is competitive on pricing, Washington Mutual should be able to win over a lot of new customers drawn to the convenience of getting two loans at once and the flexibility of resetting terms twice a year.

"Consumers have gotten a lot smarter ... so I expect you'll get a pretty sophisticated customer that uses the exchange offer both times," Bradshaw said. "If they think rates are going to go down, they're going to swap into a variable. If they think rates are going to go up, they're going to swap into a fixed."

WaMu Mortgage Plus is not available to subprime consumers, those who pay higher interest rates because of sketchy credit histories or low income.

Customers who get the new loan can choose between the conventional method of paying both interest and principal or making interest-only payments.

Washington Mutual's home loan group has suffered amid a stumbling housing market, losing more than $250 million in the past three fiscal quarters.

The company places much of the blame on rising delinquencies and defaults among subprime borrowers. It has reined in its subprime business, and expects an improving economy and strength in prime lending -- including its latest offering -- to boost the home loan unit back to profitability.

"As the home loans organization continues to improve, this is just going to accelerate the momentum we believe we're building in that business," Rotella said.

Without disclosing how many customers have signed up for WaMu Mortgage Plus since it was first offered, Rotella said the company is pleased so far. "It's been above our early expectations by a fair amount," he said.
 
I finally finished all 48 pages of this thread. Took me two weeks. Much better than actually doing work.

Has anyone here invested in tax lien certificates??? Advice? experiences?

 
What a great thread.

Anyone have any experience with splitting property? There is a property in my neighborhood that has a 5-unit and a single family home on it. If the single family home can be sold separately the value would go up quite a bit. I'm talking with the town on Monday to see what hoops they would want someone to go through. What should I look out for?

 
Does anyone here have experience with condo associations, condo boards and lawsuits with developers?

I live in a fairly new condo (16 units) and we've had chronic leaking issues since the very start. The real problem with our association and our building is the fact that one of the developers lives in the building, in fact he is my next door neighbor. He's done a very good job of cozying up with board members, he's said all of the right things; however there are still major issues with the building.

Me and two other owners forced the previous board to resign. The management company we hired last year to manage the building actually quit (the fired us), because they couldn't get anything done with the developer and most of the owners kept calling and complaining.

Now that we are on the board, we are taking steps to legally document what is wrong with the building through an inspector and to submit a letter asking for detailed follow up so there will be not be any negative ramifications.

I can keep going with more details, but I'm just curious if anyone here has been involved with a similar situation or has some advice.

thanks.

 
I'm looking for some advice on a refi to pull some equity out for further real estate advice. I'm taking about 90k cash out, to put into two or three duplex/triplex properties.

I'm taking out a interest only loan, five year fixed. I've noticed if I go straight intest only, it's about a half a point cheaper than getting the option loan, giving me the flexability of just making the minimum payment. My plan is to always pay the full interest, so I don't acrue any neg am, although having the option is nice. Crunching the numbers, I'd be paying about 20% premium on the loan, on the ability to pull out those extra funds each month (Interest only vs Interest Only Option).

Being able to pull out an additional $500 or so a month would be nice, to put into other real estate, etc, but I'm thinking overall, I'll probably just go with the regular interest only loan, as it would save me about 5k over the five year period. Your thoughts?

mid credit 729, current loan balance 157k, appraised 325, new loan 260, pull out roughly 90k. Looking at the interest only 5 year fixed at 5.875, with no points, as the broker is making 1.6875% on the backend (I'm signing the 3 year prepay penalty).

Thoughts, advice? I'm getting into rentals for the first time, and want to be aggresive, but not reckless. The Portland, Oregon market is such that the 1% rule could NEVER be found, it's more like .5, and those are the good ones. Seriously, 5-7% cap rates, unless you want to be a slum lord.

 
Self serving :shrug: bump
What is your original rate on your mortgage? There is plenty of times that even though an equity rate may be higher it does not make sense to pay for closing costs and potentially increase your rate on the balance of your current 1st. Typically mortgage brokers do not deal in Equities unless they are doing an 80/20 purchase etc and hence it is not an option they will bring up- they want the bigger 1st mortgage re-fi. Just something to bring up that since you did not address it in your post. It could very well be that doing the re-fi will make sense but you want to make sure you look at all your options.
 
Self serving :blackdot: bump
What is your original rate on your mortgage? There is plenty of times that even though an equity rate may be higher it does not make sense to pay for closing costs and potentially increase your rate on the balance of your current 1st. Typically mortgage brokers do not deal in Equities unless they are doing an 80/20 purchase etc and hence it is not an option they will bring up- they want the bigger 1st mortgage re-fi. Just something to bring up that since you did not address it in your post. It could very well be that doing the re-fi will make sense but you want to make sure you look at all your options.
My current rate is 4.85%, 15 year loan, which is about $1,634 a month, including tax and insurance. I'm only doing the loan to increase my monthly cash flow, cash out for the purchase of a couple of properties, and liquidity. The interest only mortgage is THE way to finance rental real estate property, that I understand, I'm just trying to figure out how much risk I want to take on, while I'm just getting my feet wet. I have a six month nest egg for emergencies, etc, etc.
 
Another question, not to hijack my own thread...Are other RE investors who are looking for rental properties buying right now, or just waiting for the dust to settle, with the understanding that it might take a year or two?

 
Does anyone here have experience with condo associations, condo boards and lawsuits with developers?I live in a fairly new condo (16 units) and we've had chronic leaking issues since the very start. The real problem with our association and our building is the fact that one of the developers lives in the building, in fact he is my next door neighbor. He's done a very good job of cozying up with board members, he's said all of the right things; however there are still major issues with the building.Me and two other owners forced the previous board to resign. The management company we hired last year to manage the building actually quit (the fired us), because they couldn't get anything done with the developer and most of the owners kept calling and complaining.Now that we are on the board, we are taking steps to legally document what is wrong with the building through an inspector and to submit a letter asking for detailed follow up so there will be not be any negative ramifications.I can keep going with more details, but I'm just curious if anyone here has been involved with a similar situation or has some advice.thanks.
This will likely depend on state law. A lot of states have adopted some form of the Uniform Planned Community Act that contains certain warranties re: structural defects. Developer will warrant against them for a certain period of time after the unit is conveyed (i.e. 2 years). So most likely the developer will warrant against defects for a period of 2 years (or whatever the warranty period may be) and then you have until the statute of limitations period ends to bring the action. It must be shown, however, that the defect occurred within the warranty period. If it is a problem common to most owners, you can have the Association bring the action for beach of warranty against the developer rather than having each individual owner do it themselves. I have represented a lot of homeowners associations in my practice and it is sometimes hard to get enough votes for the Association to pursue the action if it doesn't affect a lot of the members.
 
Does anyone here have experience with condo associations, condo boards and lawsuits with developers?I live in a fairly new condo (16 units) and we've had chronic leaking issues since the very start. The real problem with our association and our building is the fact that one of the developers lives in the building, in fact he is my next door neighbor. He's done a very good job of cozying up with board members, he's said all of the right things; however there are still major issues with the building.Me and two other owners forced the previous board to resign. The management company we hired last year to manage the building actually quit (the fired us), because they couldn't get anything done with the developer and most of the owners kept calling and complaining.Now that we are on the board, we are taking steps to legally document what is wrong with the building through an inspector and to submit a letter asking for detailed follow up so there will be not be any negative ramifications.I can keep going with more details, but I'm just curious if anyone here has been involved with a similar situation or has some advice.thanks.
This will likely depend on state law. A lot of states have adopted some form of the Uniform Planned Community Act that contains certain warranties re: structural defects. Developer will warrant against them for a certain period of time after the unit is conveyed (i.e. 2 years). So most likely the developer will warrant against defects for a period of 2 years (or whatever the warranty period may be) and then you have until the statute of limitations period ends to bring the action. It must be shown, however, that the defect occurred within the warranty period. If it is a problem common to most owners, you can have the Association bring the action for beach of warranty against the developer rather than having each individual owner do it themselves. I have represented a lot of homeowners associations in my practice and it is sometimes hard to get enough votes for the Association to pursue the action if it doesn't affect a lot of the members.
Thanks for the info.The last time it rained, 6 of our 16 units had leaking as well as three or four common areas. I think it will affect most owners because this problem deals with the structural integrity of the building and potential re-sale value of their unit going forward. There have also been signs of mold which is huge issue as well.We have a lot of documentation going back to 2005 during the warranty period.
 
Does anyone here have experience with condo associations, condo boards and lawsuits with developers?I live in a fairly new condo (16 units) and we've had chronic leaking issues since the very start. The real problem with our association and our building is the fact that one of the developers lives in the building, in fact he is my next door neighbor. He's done a very good job of cozying up with board members, he's said all of the right things; however there are still major issues with the building.Me and two other owners forced the previous board to resign. The management company we hired last year to manage the building actually quit (the fired us), because they couldn't get anything done with the developer and most of the owners kept calling and complaining.Now that we are on the board, we are taking steps to legally document what is wrong with the building through an inspector and to submit a letter asking for detailed follow up so there will be not be any negative ramifications.I can keep going with more details, but I'm just curious if anyone here has been involved with a similar situation or has some advice.thanks.
This will likely depend on state law. A lot of states have adopted some form of the Uniform Planned Community Act that contains certain warranties re: structural defects. Developer will warrant against them for a certain period of time after the unit is conveyed (i.e. 2 years). So most likely the developer will warrant against defects for a period of 2 years (or whatever the warranty period may be) and then you have until the statute of limitations period ends to bring the action. It must be shown, however, that the defect occurred within the warranty period. If it is a problem common to most owners, you can have the Association bring the action for beach of warranty against the developer rather than having each individual owner do it themselves. I have represented a lot of homeowners associations in my practice and it is sometimes hard to get enough votes for the Association to pursue the action if it doesn't affect a lot of the members.
Thanks for the info.The last time it rained, 6 of our 16 units had leaking as well as three or four common areas. I think it will affect most owners because this problem deals with the structural integrity of the building and potential re-sale value of their unit going forward. There have also been signs of mold which is huge issue as well.We have a lot of documentation going back to 2005 during the warranty period.
Sounds like you will likely have some recourse. I would try to get the Association to approve exploring the issue with an attorney, especially since it is affecting common elements. If you can get the approval, the Association should bear all of the costs associated with the litigation, if necessary. Hopefully, you will not need to declare a special assessment to cover the costs. Good luck.
 
Another question, not to hijack my own thread...Are other RE investors who are looking for rental properties buying right now, or just waiting for the dust to settle, with the understanding that it might take a year or two?
Always looking to buy, but being very picky. Cap rates here aren't very good. The foreclousure market here isn't the best. I'm seeing this activity mostly in new neighborhoods in mass in marginal locations. The problem becomes what to do with the home when there are numerous others on the market or up for rent.I'd suggest expanding your search area. I visited Mike and got a good education.
 
BassNBrew said:
Another question, not to hijack my own thread...Are other RE investors who are looking for rental properties buying right now, or just waiting for the dust to settle, with the understanding that it might take a year or two?
Always looking to buy, but being very picky. Cap rates here aren't very good. The foreclousure market here isn't the best. I'm seeing this activity mostly in new neighborhoods in mass in marginal locations. The problem becomes what to do with the home when there are numerous others on the market or up for rent.I'd suggest expanding your search area. I visited Mike and got a good education.
What area are you focusing on? Are you on the west coast?
 
Self serving :lmao: bump
What is your original rate on your mortgage? There is plenty of times that even though an equity rate may be higher it does not make sense to pay for closing costs and potentially increase your rate on the balance of your current 1st. Typically mortgage brokers do not deal in Equities unless they are doing an 80/20 purchase etc and hence it is not an option they will bring up- they want the bigger 1st mortgage re-fi. Just something to bring up that since you did not address it in your post. It could very well be that doing the re-fi will make sense but you want to make sure you look at all your options.
My current rate is 4.85%, 15 year loan, which is about $1,634 a month, including tax and insurance. I'm only doing the loan to increase my monthly cash flow, cash out for the purchase of a couple of properties, and liquidity. The interest only mortgage is THE way to finance rental real estate property, that I understand, I'm just trying to figure out how much risk I want to take on, while I'm just getting my feet wet. I have a six month nest egg for emergencies, etc, etc.
Run the numbers between what you want to do and getting a Equity product behind your current first. You have a very good fixed rate that I would try to keep rather than pay closing costs on re-fi to pull money out. Like I said before, a mortgage broker is less likely to give you this option because they do not like messing with (or some do not do at all) Equity Loans or Lines of Credit. Like I said, run the numbers but here are a few thoughts....1) Do you really want to lose that 4.85% fixed rate and pay closing costs to have an interest only option payment on the whole amount? An Equity Line of Credit will give you an interest only option on the balance of what you are using for the rental property. 2) Do you really want to raise your rate on 150K first to get a lower rate on 90K and pay closing costs? An equity could keep your first as is, meet your needs that you want with the rental, and with no closing costs (usually- depends on lender of course) 3) What are your plans at the end of the 5 year? Are you selling both your primary and rental properties and paying that off or do you plan on re-fi then or do you plan on rolling the dice on the interest rate fluctuation? I would find it odd if you were planning on selling both properties within five years so I am assuming you are going to re-fi at the 5 years. Which means more closing costs and possibly a higher rate (remember, even current rates are historically LOW) Not saying either way is better or worst but I do think you want to revisit your plans and make sure what you are doing is actually best for you.
 
Another new mortgage product....

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs

By Ieva M. Augstums, AP Business Writer

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs on New No-Fee Mortgage

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Achieving the American dream of home ownership has never been as simple as just paying for the house itself. There are always the closings costs to pay for, too.

But looking to further grow its mortgage business and expand its traditional retail banking operation, Bank of America Corp. is doing away with the collection of borrower, lender and third-party fees that typically add a few thousand dollars to the price of buying a home.

"Knowing Bank of America, they want to be the leader in this space, and given the competition today, the product makes sense," said Anthony Sanders, a professor of finance at Ohio State University. "It's a good move for them, especially if they want to gain more customers."

Bank of America, the nation's second-largest by assets, began offering customers in Washington state a similar no-fee mortgage in September, spending more than $1 million to advertise a loan that eliminated an average of $2,800 in traditional closing costs for customers there.

In February, the bank rolled out the mortgage to eight additional states. It has been available nationally for about two weeks, and a national advertising campaign starts Tuesday for the bank's "No Fee Mortgage Plus."

The loan from the Charlotte-based bank also cuts out private mortgage insurance, a premium typically paid by borrowers whose down payment on a home is less than 20 percent. The bank is also guaranteeing customers the best deal on a mortgage and an on-time closing.

Borrowers have to put at least 5 percent down, and the loan is not available to subprime consumers, those who pay higher interest rates because of sketchy credit histories or low income. They can choose to pay interest and principal, or make interest-only payments.

Floyd Robinson, Bank of America's president of consumer real estate and insurance services, said the loan eliminates, on average, $3,350 in closing costs on a $200,000 loan.

"We believe that No Fee Mortgage Plus is a product that actually takes complexity out of the mortgage environment," Robinson said. "It simplifies the whole process for our customers and provides a much lower-cost solution for their home buying needs."

At $247 billion, Bank of America's outstanding residential mortgage portfolio was worth more than all of its commercial loans combined at the end of the first quarter. Still, both industry experts and bank executives have said mortgages are a market Bank of America has yet to fully tap. The company controls about 5 percent of the mortgage industry's direct-to-consumer market share, and bank officials said they would like to more than double that in the next three years.

Winning new business in mortgages also offers the bank another way to win new deposits and new business as consumers try other products or move assets to the bank. Bank officials say they typically are able to cross-sell an average of 5.3 additional products for every mortgage customer.

"This is about a relationship more so than about a single product sell," Robinson said. "We are here to build relationships, to become the trusted adviser for the customer."

Two weeks ago, Seattle-based Washington Mutual Inc. said it would begin offering a new mortgage and home equity line of credit bundled into a single loan.

Other national retail banks, including San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co., New York's JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, offer home equity loans that waive some traditional fees. But none has a mortgage that eliminates closing costs.

"I think there will be a lot of 'my interest rate is lower than yours,' but the key here is for consumers to shop around," Robinson said.

During the Washington state pilot program, he said only 60 customers out of 11,000 mortgage applications went elsewhere. "We encourage them to shop around, because this is the best value," he said.

That's what Dixie Henderson said she got earlier this year. The 46-year-old first-time home buyer from Las Vegas borrowed $225,000 earlier this year, when Bank of America was testing the program in Nevada. She has a 30-year fixed-rate loan with an interest rate of 6.34 percent and a mortgage payment of $1,200 a month.

"For Las Vegas and an excellent location, that's not a bad deal," Henderson said. "I've had no problems, no troubles, no complaints."
 
Another new mortgage product....

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs

By Ieva M. Augstums, AP Business Writer

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs on New No-Fee Mortgage

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Achieving the American dream of home ownership has never been as simple as just paying for the house itself. There are always the closings costs to pay for, too.

But looking to further grow its mortgage business and expand its traditional retail banking operation, Bank of America Corp. is doing away with the collection of borrower, lender and third-party fees that typically add a few thousand dollars to the price of buying a home.

"Knowing Bank of America, they want to be the leader in this space, and given the competition today, the product makes sense," said Anthony Sanders, a professor of finance at Ohio State University. "It's a good move for them, especially if they want to gain more customers."

Bank of America, the nation's second-largest by assets, began offering customers in Washington state a similar no-fee mortgage in September, spending more than $1 million to advertise a loan that eliminated an average of $2,800 in traditional closing costs for customers there.

In February, the bank rolled out the mortgage to eight additional states. It has been available nationally for about two weeks, and a national advertising campaign starts Tuesday for the bank's "No Fee Mortgage Plus."

The loan from the Charlotte-based bank also cuts out private mortgage insurance, a premium typically paid by borrowers whose down payment on a home is less than 20 percent. The bank is also guaranteeing customers the best deal on a mortgage and an on-time closing.

Borrowers have to put at least 5 percent down, and the loan is not available to subprime consumers, those who pay higher interest rates because of sketchy credit histories or low income. They can choose to pay interest and principal, or make interest-only payments.

Floyd Robinson, Bank of America's president of consumer real estate and insurance services, said the loan eliminates, on average, $3,350 in closing costs on a $200,000 loan.

"We believe that No Fee Mortgage Plus is a product that actually takes complexity out of the mortgage environment," Robinson said. "It simplifies the whole process for our customers and provides a much lower-cost solution for their home buying needs."

At $247 billion, Bank of America's outstanding residential mortgage portfolio was worth more than all of its commercial loans combined at the end of the first quarter. Still, both industry experts and bank executives have said mortgages are a market Bank of America has yet to fully tap. The company controls about 5 percent of the mortgage industry's direct-to-consumer market share, and bank officials said they would like to more than double that in the next three years.

Winning new business in mortgages also offers the bank another way to win new deposits and new business as consumers try other products or move assets to the bank. Bank officials say they typically are able to cross-sell an average of 5.3 additional products for every mortgage customer.

"This is about a relationship more so than about a single product sell," Robinson said. "We are here to build relationships, to become the trusted adviser for the customer."

Two weeks ago, Seattle-based Washington Mutual Inc. said it would begin offering a new mortgage and home equity line of credit bundled into a single loan.

Other national retail banks, including San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co., New York's JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, offer home equity loans that waive some traditional fees. But none has a mortgage that eliminates closing costs.

"I think there will be a lot of 'my interest rate is lower than yours,' but the key here is for consumers to shop around," Robinson said.

During the Washington state pilot program, he said only 60 customers out of 11,000 mortgage applications went elsewhere. "We encourage them to shop around, because this is the best value," he said.

That's what Dixie Henderson said she got earlier this year. The 46-year-old first-time home buyer from Las Vegas borrowed $225,000 earlier this year, when Bank of America was testing the program in Nevada. She has a 30-year fixed-rate loan with an interest rate of 6.34 percent and a mortgage payment of $1,200 a month.

"For Las Vegas and an excellent location, that's not a bad deal," Henderson said. "I've had no problems, no troubles, no complaints."
Wonder if this is owner occupied only?
 
Another question, not to hijack my own thread...Are other RE investors who are looking for rental properties buying right now, or just waiting for the dust to settle, with the understanding that it might take a year or two?
Always looking to buy, but being very picky. Cap rates here aren't very good. The foreclousure market here isn't the best. I'm seeing this activity mostly in new neighborhoods in mass in marginal locations. The problem becomes what to do with the home when there are numerous others on the market or up for rent.I'd suggest expanding your search area. I visited Mike and got a good education.
What area are you focusing on? Are you on the west coast?
I work out of Charlotte. Have expanded my search into the western part of the state. Visited Mike and am giving consideration to investing in the mecca of civilization.
 
Another new mortgage product....

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs

By Ieva M. Augstums, AP Business Writer

Bank of America Eliminates Closing Costs on New No-Fee Mortgage

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Achieving the American dream of home ownership has never been as simple as just paying for the house itself. There are always the closings costs to pay for, too.

But looking to further grow its mortgage business and expand its traditional retail banking operation, Bank of America Corp. is doing away with the collection of borrower, lender and third-party fees that typically add a few thousand dollars to the price of buying a home.

"Knowing Bank of America, they want to be the leader in this space, and given the competition today, the product makes sense," said Anthony Sanders, a professor of finance at Ohio State University. "It's a good move for them, especially if they want to gain more customers."

Bank of America, the nation's second-largest by assets, began offering customers in Washington state a similar no-fee mortgage in September, spending more than $1 million to advertise a loan that eliminated an average of $2,800 in traditional closing costs for customers there.

In February, the bank rolled out the mortgage to eight additional states. It has been available nationally for about two weeks, and a national advertising campaign starts Tuesday for the bank's "No Fee Mortgage Plus."

The loan from the Charlotte-based bank also cuts out private mortgage insurance, a premium typically paid by borrowers whose down payment on a home is less than 20 percent. The bank is also guaranteeing customers the best deal on a mortgage and an on-time closing.

Borrowers have to put at least 5 percent down, and the loan is not available to subprime consumers, those who pay higher interest rates because of sketchy credit histories or low income. They can choose to pay interest and principal, or make interest-only payments.

Floyd Robinson, Bank of America's president of consumer real estate and insurance services, said the loan eliminates, on average, $3,350 in closing costs on a $200,000 loan.

"We believe that No Fee Mortgage Plus is a product that actually takes complexity out of the mortgage environment," Robinson said. "It simplifies the whole process for our customers and provides a much lower-cost solution for their home buying needs."

At $247 billion, Bank of America's outstanding residential mortgage portfolio was worth more than all of its commercial loans combined at the end of the first quarter. Still, both industry experts and bank executives have said mortgages are a market Bank of America has yet to fully tap. The company controls about 5 percent of the mortgage industry's direct-to-consumer market share, and bank officials said they would like to more than double that in the next three years.

Winning new business in mortgages also offers the bank another way to win new deposits and new business as consumers try other products or move assets to the bank. Bank officials say they typically are able to cross-sell an average of 5.3 additional products for every mortgage customer.

"This is about a relationship more so than about a single product sell," Robinson said. "We are here to build relationships, to become the trusted adviser for the customer."

Two weeks ago, Seattle-based Washington Mutual Inc. said it would begin offering a new mortgage and home equity line of credit bundled into a single loan.

Other national retail banks, including San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co., New York's JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, offer home equity loans that waive some traditional fees. But none has a mortgage that eliminates closing costs.

"I think there will be a lot of 'my interest rate is lower than yours,' but the key here is for consumers to shop around," Robinson said.

During the Washington state pilot program, he said only 60 customers out of 11,000 mortgage applications went elsewhere. "We encourage them to shop around, because this is the best value," he said.

That's what Dixie Henderson said she got earlier this year. The 46-year-old first-time home buyer from Las Vegas borrowed $225,000 earlier this year, when Bank of America was testing the program in Nevada. She has a 30-year fixed-rate loan with an interest rate of 6.34 percent and a mortgage payment of $1,200 a month.

"For Las Vegas and an excellent location, that's not a bad deal," Henderson said. "I've had no problems, no troubles, no complaints."
Wonder if this is owner occupied only?
I would think so.... but :lmao:
 
BassNBrew said:
Another question, not to hijack my own thread...Are other RE investors who are looking for rental properties buying right now, or just waiting for the dust to settle, with the understanding that it might take a year or two?
Always looking to buy, but being very picky. Cap rates here aren't very good. The foreclousure market here isn't the best. I'm seeing this activity mostly in new neighborhoods in mass in marginal locations. The problem becomes what to do with the home when there are numerous others on the market or up for rent.I'd suggest expanding your search area. I visited Mike and got a good education.
What area are you focusing on? Are you on the west coast?
I work out of Charlotte. Have expanded my search into the western part of the state. Visited Mike and am giving consideration to investing in the mecca of civilization.
Did I ever mess the one for you up a little while back. Offered at $50K, rented with long term Tenants, rent is $975 a month, and I know both tenants as this is two doors down from a Pocket where I have 4 Duplexes. A teacher upstairs, and downtown professionals down. Gas and Electric Split, Owner Pays water.I wanted it badly, and just didn't have the money in hand. Tried to get creative, and it was bought at full asking in Cash.I've been kicking myself on it. I should have called you, and I still would have been able to control this property.
 
Damn, I wish I could find something with that kind of cap rate, I'm looking at 225k+ for a duplex that will pull out $1,400 gross everymonth, ugh. Cap rates are 4-7% on average around here.

 
I'm considering purchasing a townhouse near a beach in SC for around $500,000. From looking at the mortgage calculators, it seems we'd be paying $3,000 a month, perhaps more (depending on the rate of course).

I can easily get $50k down, might be able to swing $100k if I got my families involved - I believe at least one side would be interested.

Does only putting 10% down hurt? I wouldn't be able to use a VA loan here (I'm pretty sure).

It would be primarily an investment, but also a vacation home.

Right now, he's able to get $1200 a week and rents it out around 40 weeks per year. (so roughly $50,000 in rentals - fees)

There will be property management fees involved, but I'm researching how much those will run. Also, we'd want to refurbish the house, buy some new furniture, etc.

We LOVE the location, this will be the 2nd summer we've rented this place. I suspect if we update the look, we'd be able to pull in around $1400 a week.

What do I need to know, think about, consider, etc. before pursuing?

For what it's worth, this would knock out our stock, but not touch our retirement.

 
Hi... looking for some advice here. I bought a townhouse in South Jersey almost 2 years ago with a friend... we were looking to get some equity instead of renting. So fast forward to now, I've since moved out and bought a new house with my girlfriend. My friend is living at the townhouse with his girlfriend, she is paying me rent however it does not cover 100% of my mortgage payment. I pay approx $150 a month now for the townhouse. The new house I bought needs some work, and I'd like to get some cash from somewhere to improve the kitchen (let's say 10k needed). My friend has contemplated buying me out, however that doesn't seem to benefit him... he'd refinance and get a higher interest rate, higher payment and I would get say 10-12k out of the house. We bought for 171 and could most likely sell for 192 now. I have not been in my new house for a year yet, so it is not possible to get equity out of this house yet... but that is coming in August. Countrywide is telling me I could also refinance now due to lower rates of FHA and save about $85 a month on mortgage payment.

So I feel a tad overwhelmed.

*My friend isn't quite ready to sell and I do not see the selling points that would make him want to sell to me and assume higher interest, payments...

*I want 10k to redo my new kitchen

*I am only 8 months into the mortgage for the new house and have opportunity to refinance the interest rate right now to save $85 a month

I am not sure if I have provided all of the relevant info, but I am looking for some advice.... what is the best move at this time.

Should I just hang onto the townhouse and hope he is ready to move out within the next year and we just sell it and split the earnings? Are there major benefits to him buying me out? Any other better ways to get 10k for the kitchen?

I bought the new house for approx 230 and other houses on the street have recently sold for 270... so I am not sure what I could have the house re-appraised for. I did totally redo the living room and downstairs powder room. Also, I'd prob plan to live here for 5-7 years and right now I am in an interest only loan.

Thanks!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
First time home seller here. I have an investment property that I want to sell. It's half of a twin in a good neighborhood in a growing area(far suburb of Philly). I bought it new 11 yrs ago, and it was our primary residence up until 2 yrs ago. At that point, we used the equity as a down payment on a new residence and turned the property into a rental. I'm losing quality tenants, close friends, in June and I think this is the time to cash out due to our financial situation as well as the home's very good condition and increased value.

In order to save a few (thousand) bucks, I'm looking into the Assist2Sell brokers. Can anyone share some insight as to the pros and cons of Assist2Sell? On the surface it seems like it makes sense for us but I figured I'd throw it out to the forum to see if anyone had any thoughts.

As I said, I'm a first time seller so any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 
First time home seller here. I have an investment property that I want to sell. It's half of a twin in a good neighborhood in a growing area(far suburb of Philly). I bought it new 11 yrs ago, and it was our primary residence up until 2 yrs ago. At that point, we used the equity as a down payment on a new residence and turned the property into a rental. I'm losing quality tenants, close friends, in June and I think this is the time to cash out due to our financial situation as well as the home's very good condition and increased value.In order to save a few (thousand) bucks, I'm looking into the Assist2Sell brokers. Can anyone share some insight as to the pros and cons of Assist2Sell? On the surface it seems like it makes sense for us but I figured I'd throw it out to the forum to see if anyone had any thoughts. As I said, I'm a first time seller so any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Would this suburb be near PA 452?
 
First time home seller here. I have an investment property that I want to sell. It's half of a twin in a good neighborhood in a growing area(far suburb of Philly). I bought it new 11 yrs ago, and it was our primary residence up until 2 yrs ago. At that point, we used the equity as a down payment on a new residence and turned the property into a rental. I'm losing quality tenants, close friends, in June and I think this is the time to cash out due to our financial situation as well as the home's very good condition and increased value.In order to save a few (thousand) bucks, I'm looking into the Assist2Sell brokers. Can anyone share some insight as to the pros and cons of Assist2Sell? On the surface it seems like it makes sense for us but I figured I'd throw it out to the forum to see if anyone had any thoughts. As I said, I'm a first time seller so any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Would this suburb be near PA 452?
Near PA 10 and PA 30.
 
I'm considering purchasing a townhouse near a beach in SC for around $500,000. From looking at the mortgage calculators, it seems we'd be paying $3,000 a month, perhaps more (depending on the rate of course). I can easily get $50k down, might be able to swing $100k if I got my families involved - I believe at least one side would be interested. Does only putting 10% down hurt? I wouldn't be able to use a VA loan here (I'm pretty sure). It would be primarily an investment, but also a vacation home. Right now, he's able to get $1200 a week and rents it out around 40 weeks per year. (so roughly $50,000 in rentals - fees) There will be property management fees involved, but I'm researching how much those will run. Also, we'd want to refurbish the house, buy some new furniture, etc. We LOVE the location, this will be the 2nd summer we've rented this place. I suspect if we update the look, we'd be able to pull in around $1400 a week. What do I need to know, think about, consider, etc. before pursuing? For what it's worth, this would knock out our stock, but not touch our retirement.
Ignoring the down payment, you are looking at roughly $3200 per month on $500K. You will need to add on property taxes, insurance, and utilities to that number so you will be looking at roughly $4000 a month or $48000 a year. I would suspect that property management will run you roughly 40% of the take which should include cleaning and linens. Your $50K gross will end up being closer to $30K net. That leaves you out of pocket $1500 a month. Now my real concern. That area has sky rocketed in value over the last 2-4 years. I would expect this property was worth $200K five years ago. I don't know the area in detail, but tread carefully here. Florida money was partially driving this market and the market there is crap. We may not have seen a peak, but I wouldn't be counting on huge appreciation.Just for ref, I have a vary good acquaintance that bought into the NC mountains for $225 and refurbed for $25K. 2200 sf single family with country club membership included. His monthly outflow is $1800/mon or $22,000 per year. He's looking at $15,000 net after fees for the first year, second year should be break even. The property would sell for $325-$350K after the upgrades and he sees further appreciation opportunity.I guess I wanted to emphasize that appreciation is a key component for any of these vacation rentals to work long term.
 
First time home seller here. I have an investment property that I want to sell. It's half of a twin in a good neighborhood in a growing area(far suburb of Philly). I bought it new 11 yrs ago, and it was our primary residence up until 2 yrs ago. At that point, we used the equity as a down payment on a new residence and turned the property into a rental. I'm losing quality tenants, close friends, in June and I think this is the time to cash out due to our financial situation as well as the home's very good condition and increased value.In order to save a few (thousand) bucks, I'm looking into the Assist2Sell brokers. Can anyone share some insight as to the pros and cons of Assist2Sell? On the surface it seems like it makes sense for us but I figured I'd throw it out to the forum to see if anyone had any thoughts. As I said, I'm a first time seller so any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Investment properties are much more marketable with a tenant in place. My experience with low commission sales firms has be poor. You need to make a decision, hire someone to sell it for you or do it yourself (get it into mls though). You play the middle of the road and everything will likely be done half-assed.
 
Hi... looking for some advice here. I bought a townhouse in South Jersey almost 2 years ago with a friend... we were looking to get some equity instead of renting. So fast forward to now, I've since moved out and bought a new house with my girlfriend. My friend is living at the townhouse with his girlfriend, she is paying me rent however it does not cover 100% of my mortgage payment. I pay approx $150 a month now for the townhouse. The new house I bought needs some work, and I'd like to get some cash from somewhere to improve the kitchen (let's say 10k needed). My friend has contemplated buying me out, however that doesn't seem to benefit him... he'd refinance and get a higher interest rate, higher payment and I would get say 10-12k out of the house. We bought for 171 and could most likely sell for 192 now. I have not been in my new house for a year yet, so it is not possible to get equity out of this house yet... but that is coming in August. Countrywide is telling me I could also refinance now due to lower rates of FHA and save about $85 a month on mortgage payment. So I feel a tad overwhelmed. *My friend isn't quite ready to sell and I do not see the selling points that would make him want to sell to me and assume higher interest, payments...*I want 10k to redo my new kitchen*I am only 8 months into the mortgage for the new house and have opportunity to refinance the interest rate right now to save $85 a monthI am not sure if I have provided all of the relevant info, but I am looking for some advice.... what is the best move at this time. Should I just hang onto the townhouse and hope he is ready to move out within the next year and we just sell it and split the earnings? Are there major benefits to him buying me out? Any other better ways to get 10k for the kitchen?I bought the new house for approx 230 and other houses on the street have recently sold for 270... so I am not sure what I could have the house re-appraised for. I did totally redo the living room and downstairs powder room. Also, I'd prob plan to live here for 5-7 years and right now I am in an interest only loan. Thanks!
The benefits of him buying you out is that you won't be paying a mortgage on a vacant property waiting for it to sell.Regarding the kitchen...is the kitchen really that bad you can't wait a year and pay for it when you have cash in hand? Lowes often offers one year no interest financing.
 
I finally finished all 48 pages of this thread. Took me two weeks. Much better than actually doing work.Has anyone here invested in tax lien certificates??? Advice? experiences?
These can be a great investment, or they can be crap. Really depends (lawyer answer, I know).Find out what the rules are in each city / county. Some are 18%, some are higher, many are lower.Some bundle them into groups - which suxx0r - that's the game Baltimore plays. They put junk all together, so even if there's a good property in there, it could be grouped with 10 boardups.Now, some late night gurus will tell you this is how to buy a house for pennies on the dollar (and they are factually correct). Unfortunately, they don't tell you the whole truth, and that VERY FEW tax liens ever get to a sale (in most areas of the country).Now if you are buying PROPERTY at a tax sale, where even my grandparents bought a house once for just the back taxes - that is pure $ right there. Those aren't that common where I am (if at all).Liens are bills a buyer or seller must pay before clearing title. These mostly are bought not with the intention of getting the real estate, but getting the interest.Not a bad way to put $ to work, but hard money lenders often do better.
 
What a great thread.Anyone have any experience with splitting property? There is a property in my neighborhood that has a 5-unit and a single family home on it. If the single family home can be sold separately the value would go up quite a bit. I'm talking with the town on Monday to see what hoops they would want someone to go through. What should I look out for?
Glad you like the thread. I hoped it would help some people and I think it has. I never thought we'd be approaching 50 pages.What to watch for - #1 zoning. If the property can be subdivided, they will tell you how and what you'd need to do to get that done. It's a nice plus when buying a property.Good luck with it.
 
I'm looking for some advice on a refi to pull some equity out for further real estate advice. I'm taking about 90k cash out, to put into two or three duplex/triplex properties.I'm taking out a interest only loan, five year fixed. I've noticed if I go straight intest only, it's about a half a point cheaper than getting the option loan, giving me the flexability of just making the minimum payment. My plan is to always pay the full interest, so I don't acrue any neg am, although having the option is nice. Crunching the numbers, I'd be paying about 20% premium on the loan, on the ability to pull out those extra funds each month (Interest only vs Interest Only Option).Being able to pull out an additional $500 or so a month would be nice, to put into other real estate, etc, but I'm thinking overall, I'll probably just go with the regular interest only loan, as it would save me about 5k over the five year period. Your thoughts?mid credit 729, current loan balance 157k, appraised 325, new loan 260, pull out roughly 90k. Looking at the interest only 5 year fixed at 5.875, with no points, as the broker is making 1.6875% on the backend (I'm signing the 3 year prepay penalty).Thoughts, advice? I'm getting into rentals for the first time, and want to be aggresive, but not reckless. The Portland, Oregon market is such that the 1% rule could NEVER be found, it's more like .5, and those are the good ones. Seriously, 5-7% cap rates, unless you want to be a slum lord.
Looks like you've done some homework.Sounds like a reasonable approach. Does the property cash flow at break even (I/O)? What is your exit strategy?That will tell you what to do now. If you plan on holding it 5 years, it better pay its own freight.Beware of hidden expenses like vacancy, management and maintenance.Feel free to throw out the #s and we'll crunch it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top