Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (5 Viewers)

azgroover said:

roadkill1292 said:

Tesla co-founder Elon Musk is up to still more new tricks. No details yet, design release scheduled for Aug. 12. Speculation is that it might be a combination of maglev and pneumatic tube transport.

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If I could just go long Musk, I would. Instead, I'm left with just buying TSLA stock.

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Major said:

azgroover said:

roadkill1292 said:

Tesla co-founder Elon Musk is up to still more new tricks. No details yet, design release scheduled for Aug. 12. Speculation is that it might be a combination of maglev and pneumatic tube transport.

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If I could just go long Musk, I would. Instead, I'm left with just buying TSLA stock.

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I'm on board. The stock should suffice for now.

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Major said:

(HULK) said:

roadkill1292 said:

Tesla co-founder Elon Musk is up to still more new tricks. No details yet, design release scheduled for Aug. 12. Speculation is that it might be a combination of maglev and pneumatic tube transport.

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Yup. Basically eliminating all friction so you can accellerate to ridiculous speeds. NYC to LA in under an hour.

That said, what happens if something goes wrong at 3,000 MPH?

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um, you probably die

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Sandeman said:

Major said:

(HULK) said:

roadkill1292 said:

Tesla co-founder Elon Musk is up to still more new tricks. No details yet, design release scheduled for Aug. 12. Speculation is that it might be a combination of maglev and pneumatic tube transport.

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Yup. Basically eliminating all friction so you can accellerate to ridiculous speeds. NYC to LA in under an hour.

That said, what happens if something goes wrong at 3,000 MPH?

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um, you probably die

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But the outcome is probably the same whether you're going 3,000 MPH on the ground or 30,000 feet high.

This wouldn't compete for the traveler of current rail systems, it would compete for the air traveler. And if there's no statistical difference safety-wise and only moderate price diffences, it might be a good alternative.

I travel coast-to-coast all the time. Plop me in DC after an hour? Yes please.

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roadkill1292 said:

(HULK) said:

roadkill1292 said:

Tesla co-founder Elon Musk is up to still more new tricks. No details yet, design release scheduled for Aug. 12. Speculation is that it might be a combination of maglev and pneumatic tube transport.

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Yup. Basically eliminating all friction so you can accellerate to ridiculous speeds. NYC to LA in under an hour.

That said, what happens if something goes wrong at 3,000 MPH?

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Yeah, I've seen lots of safety concerns raised in comments at various articles about this, which is all kinda speculative since we don't know exactly what kind of system he's proposing yet. Still, whatever disasters we can dream up, he's gonna have to have an answer for all of them.

Interesting times and he's one of the people making them so.

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Q2 non-GAAP net income was $26 million, or $0.20 per share. This excludes lease accounting, certain non-cash items, and one-time charges of $16 million associated with the payoff of our DoE loan nine years early. Including all these items, GAAP net loss was $31 million or $(0.26) per share.

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ZEV credit revenue fell to $51 million this quarter from $68 million last quarter

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Nugget said:

Good to see deliveries up. Revenue for the quarter appeared to be down - not sure when they are booking their sales credit.

From the Q2 release -

ZEV credit revenue fell to $51 million this quarter from $68 million last quarter

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Still have yet to make a profit if they don't sell there CA emissions credits.

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Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

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Nugget said:

I haven't been yet. I was up in the bay area last week and drove by the Tesla plant in Fremont. It will probably be September before I make it out to a retail store.

Talking to my customers in San Jose and Sacramento, they see them all the time. Everything they hear is good about the car.

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cstu said:

Nugget said:

I haven't been yet. I was up in the bay area last week and drove by the Tesla plant in Fremont. It will probably be September before I make it out to a retail store.

Talking to my customers in San Jose and Sacramento, they see them all the time. Everything they hear is good about the car.

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There's a store on Santa Monica just off the 405.

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Major said:

Major just sold 100 shares of his 200 lot. Going to take those profits and make a down payment on a Model S for Xmas. Now I'm playing with the houses money on those 100 shares. Major's investment thesis since a youth - Don't get greedy, Take profits, Ride stock out on "free" shares.

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Nugget said:

Major said:

Major just sold 100 shares of his 200 lot. Going to take those profits and make a down payment on a Model S for Xmas. Now I'm playing with the houses money on those 100 shares. Major's investment thesis since a youth - Don't get greedy, Take profits, Ride stock out on "free" shares.

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Congrats! If you do order an S, I'd love to know the timing from order to delivery.

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Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

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ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

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The big margins Tesla wants to achieve ain't gonna happen on cheap cars so it's a weird problem. They give lip service to creating a mass market EV, but the margins on those would be terrible (see Volt and Leaf).

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Nugget said:

ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

Click to expand...

The big margins Tesla wants to achieve ain't gonna happen on cheap cars so it's a weird problem. They give lip service to creating a mass market EV, but the margins on those would be terrible (see Volt and Leaf).

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Ford runs a margin just above 10%, GM around 7%. At a 25% margin, there will be so many new entrants into the market that competition will drive margins and pricing down.

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ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

Click to expand...

The big margins Tesla wants to achieve ain't gonna happen on cheap cars so it's a weird problem. They give lip service to creating a mass market EV, but the margins on those would be terrible (see Volt and Leaf).

Click to expand...

Ford runs a margin just above 10%, GM around 7%. At a 25% margin, there will be so many new entrants into the market that competition will drive margins and pricing down.

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That is where I see the huge disconnect in the stock and the product. In addition to raising pricing on the high end S to hold margins, they couldn't make the numbers work on the lower end S and discontinued it. It's kind of a catch-22. Elon needs capital and the best thing he can do is to goose the stock price and use it as his ATM. However it can't end well if he's guiding for Porsche like margins and trying to develop a mass market product. I don't see it.

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ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

ericttspikes said:

Nugget said:

Tesla quietly increases pricing on Model S

It appears that Tesla is making more of their content optional. Consumers are seeing price increases of up to 10% as standard options become additional costs. I've seen base price increases during a model year, but not decontenting and option price increases.

This seems to be going against the grain that Tesla will be dropping the price of its vehicles as production increases.

Click to expand...

The big margins Tesla wants to achieve ain't gonna happen on cheap cars so it's a weird problem. They give lip service to creating a mass market EV, but the margins on those would be terrible (see Volt and Leaf).

Click to expand...

Ford runs a margin just above 10%, GM around 7%. At a 25% margin, there will be so many new entrants into the market that competition will drive margins and pricing down.

Click to expand...

That is where I see the huge disconnect in the stock and the product. In addition to raising pricing on the high end S to hold margins, they couldn't make the numbers work on the lower end S and discontinued it. It's kind of a catch-22. Elon needs capital and the best thing he can do is to goose the stock price and use it as his ATM. However it can't end well if he's guiding for Porsche like margins and trying to develop a mass market product. I don't see it.

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TESLA MODEL S ACHIEVES BEST SAFETY RATING OF ANY CAR EVER TESTED

SETS NEW NHTSA VEHICLE SAFETY SCORE RECORD

MONDAY, AUGUST 19, 2013

Palo Alto, CA — Independent testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has awarded the Tesla Model S a 5-star safety rating, not just overall, but in every subcategory without exception. Approximately one percent of all cars tested by the federal government achieve 5 stars across the board. NHTSA does not publish a star rating above 5, however safety levels better than 5 stars are captured in the overall Vehicle Safety Score (VSS) provided to manufacturers, where the Model S achieved a new combined record of 5.4 stars.

Of all vehicles tested, including every major make and model approved for sale in the United States, the Model S set a new record for the lowest likelihood of injury to occupants. While the Model S is a sedan, it also exceeded the safety score of all SUVs and minivans. This score takes into account the probability of injury from front, side, rear and rollover accidents.

The Model S has the advantage in the front of not having a large gasoline engine block, thus creating a much longer crumple zone to absorb a high speed impact. This is fundamentally a force over distance problem – the longer the crumple zone, the more time there is to slow down occupants at g loads that do not cause injuries. Just like jumping into a pool of water from a tall height, it is better to have the pool be deep and not contain rocks. The Model S motor is only about a foot in diameter and is mounted close to the rear axle, and the front section that would normally contain a gasoline engine is used for a second trunk.

For the side pole intrusion test, considered one of the most difficult to pass, the Model S was the only car in the "good" category among the other top one percent of vehicles tested. Compared to the Volvo S60, which is also 5-star rated in all categories, the Model S preserved 63.5 percent of driver residual space vs. 7.8 percent for the Volvo. Tesla achieved this outcome by nesting multiple deep aluminum extrusions in the side rail of the car that absorb the impact energy (a similar approach was used by the Apollo Lunar Lander) and transfer load to the rest of the vehicle. This causes the pole to be either sheared off or to stop the car before the pole hits an occupant.

The rear crash testing was particularly important, given the optional third row children's seat. For this, Tesla factory installs a double bumper if the third row seat is ordered. This was needed in order to protect against a highway speed impact in the rear with no permanently disabling injury to the third row occupants. The third row is already the safest location in the car for frontal or side injuries.

The Model S was also substantially better in rollover risk, with the other top vehicles being approximately 50 percent worse. During testing at an independent facility, the Model S refused to turn over via the normal methods and special means were needed to induce the car to roll. The reason for such a good outcome is that the battery pack is mounted below the floor pan, providing a very low center of gravity, which simultaneously ensures exceptional handling and safety.

Of note, during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial facility, the testing machine failed at just above 4 g's. While the exact number is uncertain due to Model S breaking the testing machine, what this means is that at least four additional fully loaded Model S vehicles could be placed on top of an owner's car without the roof caving in. This is achieved primarily through a center (B) pillar reinforcement attached via aerospace grade bolts.

The above results do not tell the full story. It is possible to game the regulatory testing score to some degree by strengthening a car at the exact locations used by the regulatory testing machines. After verifying through internal testing that the Model S would achieve a NHTSA 5-star rating, Tesla then analyzed the Model S to determine the weakest points in the car and retested at those locations until the car achieved 5 stars no matter how the test equipment was configured.

The Model S lithium-ion battery did not catch fire at any time before, during or after the NHTSA testing. It is worth mentioning that no production Tesla lithium-ion battery has ever caught fire in the Model S or Roadster, despite several high speed impacts. While this is statistically unlikely to remain the case long term, Tesla is unaware of any Model S or Roadster occupant fatalities in any car ever.

The graphic below shows the statistical Relative Risk Score (RSS) of Model S compared with all other vehicles tested against the exceptionally difficult NHTSA 2011 standards. In 2011, the standards were revised upward to make it more difficult to achieve a high safety rating.

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azgroover said:

link

TESLA MODEL S ACHIEVES BEST SAFETY RATING OF ANY CAR EVER TESTED

SETS NEW NHTSA VEHICLE SAFETY SCORE RECORD

MONDAY, AUGUST 19, 2013

Palo Alto, CA — Independent testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has awarded the Tesla Model S a 5-star safety rating, not just overall, but in every subcategory without exception. Approximately one percent of all cars tested by the federal government achieve 5 stars across the board. NHTSA does not publish a star rating above 5, however safety levels better than 5 stars are captured in the overall Vehicle Safety Score (VSS) provided to manufacturers, where the Model S achieved a new combined record of 5.4 stars.

Of all vehicles tested, including every major make and model approved for sale in the United States, the Model S set a new record for the lowest likelihood of injury to occupants. While the Model S is a sedan, it also exceeded the safety score of all SUVs and minivans. This score takes into account the probability of injury from front, side, rear and rollover accidents.

The Model S has the advantage in the front of not having a large gasoline engine block, thus creating a much longer crumple zone to absorb a high speed impact. This is fundamentally a force over distance problem – the longer the crumple zone, the more time there is to slow down occupants at g loads that do not cause injuries. Just like jumping into a pool of water from a tall height, it is better to have the pool be deep and not contain rocks. The Model S motor is only about a foot in diameter and is mounted close to the rear axle, and the front section that would normally contain a gasoline engine is used for a second trunk.

For the side pole intrusion test, considered one of the most difficult to pass, the Model S was the only car in the "good" category among the other top one percent of vehicles tested. Compared to the Volvo S60, which is also 5-star rated in all categories, the Model S preserved 63.5 percent of driver residual space vs. 7.8 percent for the Volvo. Tesla achieved this outcome by nesting multiple deep aluminum extrusions in the side rail of the car that absorb the impact energy (a similar approach was used by the Apollo Lunar Lander) and transfer load to the rest of the vehicle. This causes the pole to be either sheared off or to stop the car before the pole hits an occupant.

The rear crash testing was particularly important, given the optional third row children's seat. For this, Tesla factory installs a double bumper if the third row seat is ordered. This was needed in order to protect against a highway speed impact in the rear with no permanently disabling injury to the third row occupants. The third row is already the safest location in the car for frontal or side injuries.

The Model S was also substantially better in rollover risk, with the other top vehicles being approximately 50 percent worse. During testing at an independent facility, the Model S refused to turn over via the normal methods and special means were needed to induce the car to roll. The reason for such a good outcome is that the battery pack is mounted below the floor pan, providing a very low center of gravity, which simultaneously ensures exceptional handling and safety.

Of note, during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial facility, the testing machine failed at just above 4 g's. While the exact number is uncertain due to Model S breaking the testing machine, what this means is that at least four additional fully loaded Model S vehicles could be placed on top of an owner's car without the roof caving in. This is achieved primarily through a center (B) pillar reinforcement attached via aerospace grade bolts.

The above results do not tell the full story. It is possible to game the regulatory testing score to some degree by strengthening a car at the exact locations used by the regulatory testing machines. After verifying through internal testing that the Model S would achieve a NHTSA 5-star rating, Tesla then analyzed the Model S to determine the weakest points in the car and retested at those locations until the car achieved 5 stars no matter how the test equipment was configured.

The Model S lithium-ion battery did not catch fire at any time before, during or after the NHTSA testing. It is worth mentioning that no production Tesla lithium-ion battery has ever caught fire in the Model S or Roadster, despite several high speed impacts. While this is statistically unlikely to remain the case long term, Tesla is unaware of any Model S or Roadster occupant fatalities in any car ever.

The graphic below shows the statistical Relative Risk Score (RSS) of Model S compared with all other vehicles tested against the exceptionally difficult NHTSA 2011 standards. In 2011, the standards were revised upward to make it more difficult to achieve a high safety rating.

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EYLive said:

I'm seeing a few each week. Every model looks good.

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In the first half of 2013, Tesla captured 0.6 percent of the total light-duty vehicle market in the state—more than Buick, Fiat, Land Rover, Lincoln, or Mitsubishi. And looking only at June, the latest month for which figures are available, Tesla also topped Cadillac, Chrysler, and Porsche. That’s especially impressive when you consider that those brands are selling multiple different cars, whereas the Model S is the only Tesla vehicle in production.

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cstu said:

EYLive said:

I'm seeing a few each week. Every model looks good.

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Very popular here in CA.

In the first half of 2013, Tesla captured 0.6 percent of the total light-duty vehicle market in the state—more than Buick, Fiat, Land Rover, Lincoln, or Mitsubishi. And looking only at June, the latest month for which figures are available, Tesla also topped Cadillac, Chrysler, and Porsche. That’s especially impressive when you consider that those brands are selling multiple different cars, whereas the Model S is the only Tesla vehicle in production.

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azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

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azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

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Foosball God said:

azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

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Looks like a pretty normal assembly plant to me.

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Major said:

Foosball God said:

azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

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Looks like a pretty normal assembly plant to me.

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the best thing about these cars is they're more like computers for maintenance issues so they'll send some tech guy to get you sorted instead of some shady wrecker/mechanic

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ang12 said:

Major said:

Foosball God said:

azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

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Looks like a pretty normal assembly plant to me.

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the best thing about these cars is they're more like computers for maintenance issues so they'll send some tech guy to get you sorted instead of some shady wrecker/mechanic

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Who do you send it to when it bursts into flames?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/02/tesla-fire-stock-falls-analyst-downgrade/2911345/

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ang12 said:

Major said:

Foosball God said:

azgroover said:

Check out this video of how the Model S is made.

The robots are coming to get us. Especially the evil seat installing robot.

Click to expand...

Looks like a pretty normal assembly plant to me.

Click to expand...

the best thing about these cars is they're more like computers for maintenance issues so they'll send some tech guy to get you sorted instead of some shady wrecker/mechanic

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Who do you send it to when it bursts into flames?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/02/tesla-fire-stock-falls-analyst-downgrade/2911345/

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Emerson Biggens said:

Tesla outruns 2014 Corvette in a 1/4 mile.

http://news.yahoo.com/watch-tesla-sting-stingray-drag-race-143059971.html

Unbelievable car

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Emerson Biggens said:

Tesla outruns 2014 Corvette in a 1/4 mile.

http://news.yahoo.com/watch-tesla-sting-stingray-drag-race-143059971.html

Unbelievable car

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NutterButter said:

The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures consumer protection. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! -Elon Musk

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GroveDiesel said:

NutterButter said:

The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures consumer protection. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! -Elon Musk

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It boggles my mind that Christie is considered a conservative to anyone.

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Homer J Simpson said:

GroveDiesel said:

NutterButter said:

The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures consumer protection. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! -Elon Musk

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It boggles my mind that Christie is considered a conservative to anyone.

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How many state politicians anywhere would be willing to nuke the dealership system?

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Nugget said:

Homer J Simpson said:

GroveDiesel said:

NutterButter said:

The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures consumer protection. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! -Elon Musk

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It boggles my mind that Christie is considered a conservative to anyone.

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How many state politicians anywhere would be willing to nuke the dealership system?

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This. Go to any small town America and the guy that owns the Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and Honda store is the guy who supports the local football team, keeps the newspaper in business, and sponsors the local 5K run. I hate dealer franchise laws, but I don't see the system going away.

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