SSOG
Moderator
This spun off from the Antonio Gates thread, and rather than continue to hijack, I made a new thread.
I think Gruden and Fisher are solid coaches, but I'd prefer Schottenheimer. Gruden's Buccaneers have been perennial underachievers. Fisher has 4 winning seasons in 13 years. Yes, Fisher has been handicapped by a very bad front office, but that front office wasn't *ALWAYS* bad (at one point in time, more starting players in the NFL were drafted by Tennessee than any other franchise), and my point is that Schottenheimer has historically taken poor talent and gotten solid results from it, something Fisher has yet to do. When Tennessee sportswriters call the Titans the worst team on their own schedule, they don't run off a 12-4 season to shut the critics up.
I'd take Schottenheimer over Del Rio and Marvin Lewis. Both are very solid coaches, but neither has really done anything to date (28 and 30 career wins, respectively), and both have a worse career winning percentage. Both coaches could have won a coach of the year award every single season they were coaching in the league, and they'd still only have as many as Marty has.
Parcells and Holmgren... this one's tougher. On the one hand, with Holmgren, I'm reminded of all of the years of mediocrity the Seahawks went through... but on the other hand, they were never bad during those years, and they're dominant now. I'd take Holmgren over Schotty. If it were for a 1-year coaching job, I'd take Parcells over Schotty, but given all of the drama that surrounds Parcells, I'd rather have Schottenheimer signed to a 5-year contract than Bill.
Gibbs. This one's easy- if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're ranked above Marty Schottenheimer... although Gibbs could have this status revoked if Washington doesn't keep playing strong, because I'm still not 100% sure that Gibbs is as good of a coach now as he was his first time around.
Who am I forgetting from your list? Just Tony Dungy? This one's another easy one. I'd take Dungy over Schottenheimer. Dungy's taken on two reclamation projects and done as well with both of them as Schottenheimer ever did. His winning percentage is sterling, his consistancy is sterling, and he's dealt with a TON of roster turnover so we know it's not a fluke.
I'll throw out another name you haven't mentioned yet- Lovie Smith. I'd be veeeery tempted to take Lovie Smith over Schottenheimer. I know, I know, it's a little bit hypocritical to take Schotty over Lewis/Del Rio because they haven't shown me enough, and then turn around and say I might take Lovie over Schotty... but I think Lovie has created a stronger turnaround than Del Rio or Lewis has, and I *LOVE* what Lovie did as a defensive coordinator. I dunno, maybe it's just a mancrush, but I like Lovie a lot as a head coach. If it really came down to it, I'd take Schottenheimer though, because he's got a much stronger resume (3 CoY awards with 3 different teams), and Lovie Smith really hasn't dealt with any extreme roster turnover. That's a big factor in my mind- anyone can look like a good coach if he has some great talent (Barry Switzer, George Seifert, Bill Callahan), but the BEST coaches will keep on looking good as they turn their entire roster over- and nobody has produced with as many different rosters as Schottenheimer.
So, here are the coaches I'd take over Schotty:
Belichick, Shanahan, Cowher, Reid, Dungy, Holmgren, Gibbs, MAYBE Parcells (if it was a 1-year deal). That's about it.
Did I forget anyone? Is there anyone that you disagree with, or question my reasoning on? I'm more than happy to engage in a very nice, calm, rational discussion of this matter. Or you can call me names and engage in a long series of ad hominem attacks. I don't mind, really- it's always nice to know who the tools are so I can ignore them in advance.
I'd prefer Cowher, Shanny, Belichick, and Reid. Those 4 are the stone-cold no-brainers, since I think they're the 4 best coaches in the league at the moment.I would prefer Schottenheimer to Saban and Billick. Those 2 are also stone-cold no-brainers. Billick is drastically overrated, with a lower winning percentage and more losing seasons in the last 8 years than Schotty's had in 21 (and Schotty has had a lot of WORSE teams than Billick, since as I mentioned, he keeps taking over reclamation projects). As for Saban... come on, he's coached 20 games, and has a .500 record (10-10). It's a little bit too early to start anointing him a savior already.Just Win Baby said:
I think Gruden and Fisher are solid coaches, but I'd prefer Schottenheimer. Gruden's Buccaneers have been perennial underachievers. Fisher has 4 winning seasons in 13 years. Yes, Fisher has been handicapped by a very bad front office, but that front office wasn't *ALWAYS* bad (at one point in time, more starting players in the NFL were drafted by Tennessee than any other franchise), and my point is that Schottenheimer has historically taken poor talent and gotten solid results from it, something Fisher has yet to do. When Tennessee sportswriters call the Titans the worst team on their own schedule, they don't run off a 12-4 season to shut the critics up.
I'd take Schottenheimer over Del Rio and Marvin Lewis. Both are very solid coaches, but neither has really done anything to date (28 and 30 career wins, respectively), and both have a worse career winning percentage. Both coaches could have won a coach of the year award every single season they were coaching in the league, and they'd still only have as many as Marty has.
Parcells and Holmgren... this one's tougher. On the one hand, with Holmgren, I'm reminded of all of the years of mediocrity the Seahawks went through... but on the other hand, they were never bad during those years, and they're dominant now. I'd take Holmgren over Schotty. If it were for a 1-year coaching job, I'd take Parcells over Schotty, but given all of the drama that surrounds Parcells, I'd rather have Schottenheimer signed to a 5-year contract than Bill.
Gibbs. This one's easy- if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're ranked above Marty Schottenheimer... although Gibbs could have this status revoked if Washington doesn't keep playing strong, because I'm still not 100% sure that Gibbs is as good of a coach now as he was his first time around.
Who am I forgetting from your list? Just Tony Dungy? This one's another easy one. I'd take Dungy over Schottenheimer. Dungy's taken on two reclamation projects and done as well with both of them as Schottenheimer ever did. His winning percentage is sterling, his consistancy is sterling, and he's dealt with a TON of roster turnover so we know it's not a fluke.
I'll throw out another name you haven't mentioned yet- Lovie Smith. I'd be veeeery tempted to take Lovie Smith over Schottenheimer. I know, I know, it's a little bit hypocritical to take Schotty over Lewis/Del Rio because they haven't shown me enough, and then turn around and say I might take Lovie over Schotty... but I think Lovie has created a stronger turnaround than Del Rio or Lewis has, and I *LOVE* what Lovie did as a defensive coordinator. I dunno, maybe it's just a mancrush, but I like Lovie a lot as a head coach. If it really came down to it, I'd take Schottenheimer though, because he's got a much stronger resume (3 CoY awards with 3 different teams), and Lovie Smith really hasn't dealt with any extreme roster turnover. That's a big factor in my mind- anyone can look like a good coach if he has some great talent (Barry Switzer, George Seifert, Bill Callahan), but the BEST coaches will keep on looking good as they turn their entire roster over- and nobody has produced with as many different rosters as Schottenheimer.
So, here are the coaches I'd take over Schotty:
Belichick, Shanahan, Cowher, Reid, Dungy, Holmgren, Gibbs, MAYBE Parcells (if it was a 1-year deal). That's about it.
Did I forget anyone? Is there anyone that you disagree with, or question my reasoning on? I'm more than happy to engage in a very nice, calm, rational discussion of this matter. Or you can call me names and engage in a long series of ad hominem attacks. I don't mind, really- it's always nice to know who the tools are so I can ignore them in advance.
He is one of the most consistent winners in the history of the NFL... if only he could delegate play calling responsibility to others.
Subsequently, when I learned about his megalomaniacal ways with the power Snyder gave to him, I soured on him. It's pretty clear to me he should be a coach but is not cut out for GM duties, and Snyder's primary mistake with him was giving him too much power to begin with. Still, he has a well documented record of performing far better in his second year as coach than in his first, and it took until last year for the team to match or improve upon Schotty's 8-8 record in 2001. That team could have been a playoff contender in 2002 with just one or two components added. If this was the path required to get Gibbs back, then it was all worth it though. 
