What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Dynasty Rankings (6 Viewers)

Again, I didn't watch the entire game, but from the clips I saw and the general impression that I get of Foster, I think he's probably Houston's version of Mike Anderson. Not a rare talent. Just a solid player in a good situation. With Tate hurt and Slaton well out of favor, there's no reason to think Foster can't have a big year like Mike Anderson did during his first season with Denver. Unless the bottom completely falls out of his production, he'll probably have more trade value after the season than he does right now.

 
I think the Max Hall era comes very soon. I watched much of the Cardinals game and Anderson looked terrible. I was amazed at the stats he had when the game ended. Fitzgerald was visibly frustrated with Anderson, though he is too classy to show it publicly or to call Anderson out. You could tell by his body language though.
Strongly agree. The only reason Hall isn't higher is because I have no idea what he'll do with it once the Hall era arrives. Outside of Vick, there's not a better backup QB to roster right now.
Trading Foster would be the dumbest move in Dynasty. He is CLEARLY entrenched and a stud.
Like Prankster said, it depends on what you're getting in return. Foster for JStew? Yes please. Foster and Shonn Greene for one of the "Big 4"? Absolutely. Foster for a top-10 WR? You betcha.
 
Again, I didn't watch the entire game, but from the clips I saw and the general impression that I get of Foster, I think he's probably Houston's version of Mike Anderson. Not a rare talent. Just a solid player in a good situation. With Tate hurt and Slaton well out of favor, there's no reason to think Foster can't have a big year like Mike Anderson did during his first season with Denver. Unless the bottom completely falls out of his production, he'll probably have more trade value after the season than he does right now.
It all depends on your risk-tolerance. Right now, he's high on everyone's list. Even if he **only** drop 100/1 next week, the shine starts to fade. If he continues to produce solid numbers all year, then you're absolutely right, his value will be higher at the end of the year.... but how much higher? Lets say he's numerically valued at ( an arbitrary ) "85" right now. If he ends up with a top 10 finish, he's likely to gain ground to at most about a "93". However, if the line stops opening monster holes, Schaub passes more than 17 times, or Foster fumbles and kubiak gets his itchy trigger finger, then the downside of Foster is dramatically lower ( like the "42" that SSOG had him at before the games ).

Personally, I'd take the hit of missing out on "7" if it eliminated the risk of losing "40".

 
Again, I didn't watch the entire game, but from the clips I saw and the general impression that I get of Foster, I think he's probably Houston's version of Mike Anderson. Not a rare talent. Just a solid player in a good situation. With Tate hurt and Slaton well out of favor, there's no reason to think Foster can't have a big year like Mike Anderson did during his first season with Denver. Unless the bottom completely falls out of his production, he'll probably have more trade value after the season than he does right now.
It all depends on your risk-tolerance. Right now, he's high on everyone's list. Even if he **only** drop 100/1 next week, the shine starts to fade. If he continues to produce solid numbers all year, then you're absolutely right, his value will be higher at the end of the year.... but how much higher? Lets say he's numerically valued at ( an arbitrary ) "85" right now. If he ends up with a top 10 finish, he's likely to gain ground to at most about a "93". However, if the line stops opening monster holes, Schaub passes more than 17 times, or Foster fumbles and kubiak gets his itchy trigger finger, then the downside of Foster is dramatically lower ( like the "42" that SSOG had him at before the games ).

Personally, I'd take the hit of missing out on "7" if it eliminated the risk of losing "40".
By all means sell him right now if you can find someone willing to massively overpay. I just don't expect that to be the case in a lot of leagues, as many people will still be skeptical of his long term value.
 
Yeah if I could trade him for a top dynasty player I would, but we are in this to win games this year too. Also, if you always trade players when you think they are high you will miss out on some real gems every now and then. Based on a few people opinions and what I see with my eyes I choose to think he is not Mike Anderson... :confused: not at all.

Some very bright people say this guy is not just a Ryan Grant or Mike Anderson.

 
He came in the end of last year and did very well. Very well. Then opens up with this and you all say he is not legit? lol

Remember Miles Austin? Took awhile before he was considered legit too.

 
Again, I didn't watch the entire game, but from the clips I saw and the general impression that I get of Foster, I think he's probably Houston's version of Mike Anderson. Not a rare talent. Just a solid player in a good situation. With Tate hurt and Slaton well out of favor, there's no reason to think Foster can't have a big year like Mike Anderson did during his first season with Denver. Unless the bottom completely falls out of his production, he'll probably have more trade value after the season than he does right now.
This is how I see it. Not at all sold on his long term value or ability. I am not buying. Congrats to the guys who have him; enjoy this year. But one week does not make a guy a dynasty great.
 
Yeah if I could trade him for a top dynasty player I would, but we are in this to win games this year too. Also, if you always trade players when you think they are high you will miss out on some real gems every now and then. Based on a few people opinions and what I see with my eyes I choose to think he is not Mike Anderson... :confused: not at all. Some very bright people say this guy is not just a Ryan Grant or Mike Anderson.
A comparison to Ryan Grant isn't a bad thing. He's a perennial 1200 yard back. He's just not a top 5 back like people are acting like Foster is today.
 
Thats what people said about Slaton during his first season.
You're listening to the wrong people.Foster is the guy. Book it.
I'm interested in hearing more about this. I own Foster, but watching him run, he doesn't appear to be an elite talent. Now, it's obvious that he has plenty of tools to succeed in that offense. But don't you think that Houston will draft a RB early next year to compete with Foster?
 
Thats what people said about Slaton during his first season.
You're listening to the wrong people.Foster is the guy. Book it.
I'm interested in hearing more about this. I own Foster, but watching him run, he doesn't appear to be an elite talent. Now, it's obvious that he has plenty of tools to succeed in that offense. But don't you think that Houston will draft a RB early next year to compete with Foster?
Why on earth would they do that? Tate would be back, and they can keep Slaton, take someone late or off free agency. Improving the line or defense would have to be way over adding another RB
 
Yeah if I could trade him for a top dynasty player I would, but we are in this to win games this year too. Also, if you always trade players when you think they are high you will miss out on some real gems every now and then. Based on a few people opinions and what I see with my eyes I choose to think he is not Mike Anderson... :shrug: not at all. Some very bright people say this guy is not just a Ryan Grant or Mike Anderson.
A comparison to Ryan Grant isn't a bad thing. He's a perennial 1200 yard back. He's just not a top 5 back like people are acting like Foster is today.
I agree. I do not consider him top 5, I just see no need or reason to try to quickly sell him.
 
Thats what people said about Slaton during his first season.
You're listening to the wrong people.Foster is the guy. Book it.
I'm interested in hearing more about this. I own Foster, but watching him run, he doesn't appear to be an elite talent. Now, it's obvious that he has plenty of tools to succeed in that offense. But don't you think that Houston will draft a RB early next year to compete with Foster?
Why on earth would they do that? Tate would be back, and they can keep Slaton, take someone late or off free agency. Improving the line or defense would have to be way over adding another RB
:goodposting: The Ryan Grant comparison isn't bad. But Foster is a better, more complete running back than Grant in an offense that couldn't be more perfectly suited to his strengths. He's not an elite talent, but he's far more talented than the perception in this thread. I only count about 8-10 of that elite species, and only half of those backs are in ideal situations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thats what people said about Slaton during his first season.
You're listening to the wrong people.Foster is the guy. Book it.
Kudos for sticking to your guns. :confused: That being said, you have him at RB #19 on your latest rankings- was that before or after yesterday's game? I brought this up before, but I think he deserves a higher ranking than #19 if you think he's locked in as the long term starter in that offense, no?
 
Yeah if I could trade him for a top dynasty player I would, but we are in this to win games this year too. Also, if you always trade players when you think they are high you will miss out on some real gems every now and then. Based on a few people opinions and what I see with my eyes I choose to think he is not Mike Anderson... :) not at all. Some very bright people say this guy is not just a Ryan Grant or Mike Anderson.
What's wrong with being a Mike Anderson? If not for some guy named Clinton Portis and a season-ending injury after he'd already won the starting job in 2004, Anderson likely would have been a 5-year starter on the most consistently good running offense in the NFL. Anderson put up a pair of top-10 seasons 5 years apart. He was no Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis, but I have long maintained that Anderson was head and shoulders above the guys like Gary, Droughns, Bell, Bell, and Young that he frequently got lumped together with. Mike Anderson was a borderline top-20 talent in a solidly top-3 situation. Foster owners should be absolutely thrilled if he winds up being Mike Anderson Redux.
Kudos for sticking to your guns. :thumbup: That being said, you have him at RB #19 on your latest rankings- was that before or after yesterday's game? I brought this up before, but I think he deserves a higher ranking than #19 if you think he's locked in as the long term starter in that offense, no?
That was the night before this week's games. I said sometime last week that if I really thought that Foster was the long-term solution in Houston, I'd have him in my top 20, so be on the lookout for Foster to crack my top 20 this week, as well.
Remember Miles Austin? Took awhile before he was considered legit too.
I'm not sure I would trade Austin straight up in a dynasty league for any WR right now, including Andre Johnson...
:lmao:
I don't know what's so funny about it. If Austin had more track record than 12 games, I would have put him in Tier 1 with Fitz, Johnson, and Johnson. In my mind, any guy in that tier is pretty interchangeable. A few more games like Austin had last week and he'll make the leap. He's Beast Mode 2.0, and 3 years younger. I wouldn't take him over Andre Johnson, but I wouldn't call someone insane if they did.
 
Thats what people said about Slaton during his first season.
You're listening to the wrong people.Foster is the guy. Book it.
I'm interested in hearing more about this. I own Foster, but watching him run, he doesn't appear to be an elite talent. Now, it's obvious that he has plenty of tools to succeed in that offense. But don't you think that Houston will draft a RB early next year to compete with Foster?
Why on earth would they do that? Tate would be back, and they can keep Slaton, take someone late or off free agency. Improving the line or defense would have to be way over adding another RB
:thumbup: The Ryan Grant comparison isn't bad. But Foster is a better, more complete running back than Grant in an offense that couldn't be more perfectly suited to his strengths. He's not an elite talent, but he's far more talented than the perception in this thread. I only count about 8-10 of that elite species, and only half of those backs are in ideal situations.
I see. I think part of my mindset here is that I picked up Slaton very cheap before he blew up in 2008, saw him as a good sell high player, and traded him for a more talented player. So part of my reasoning is based on that - which is obviously irrelevant. Still, don't you think this is more of a question of a good player being in a perfect situation rather than a phenomenal talent?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For all we know, Arian Foster might be a top 5 back for the next 5 years. This is a guy who at one point was thought of as a 2nd-3rd round talent.

If I was an owner, I wouldn't be so quick to sell, unless I was gettng back something unbelievable in return.

Even trading for Jonathan Stewart isn't a no-brainer. Sure, it might SEEM that Stewart is the better player, but Stewart is still mired on a RBBC, with a horrible QB, playing for a horrible coach, and unless Deangelo gets hurt, will have a very average year. Foster could be a top 3 or 4 RB, easily.

It's the 2nd week of the year for crying out loud. Why on earth would anyone try to TRADE Foster after what they've just seen?

Unless your team has no chance at competing this year, and you realize that you have to package Foster to increase your overall depth, there's no point in trading him, unless you just don't like having good talent on your roster.

 
EBF said:
shader said:
It's the 2nd week of the year for crying out loud. Why on earth would anyone try to TRADE Foster after what they've just seen?
Because of statements like this:
shader said:
Even trading for Jonathan Stewart isn't a no-brainer.
I stand by it, and the more I think about it, I just can't see why trading Foster for Stewart makes sense right now. I know Stewart is the "supreme dynasty talent", he's 23 and destined for super-stardom. But I would absolutely not trade Foster for Stewart right now. Why?1. Foster is the unequivocal starter on a great offense. Slaton poses no threat. As such, he is a virtual lock for the top ten among rb's if he stays healthy. Stewart shares time with a back that many argue is more talented. On Sunday a THIRD back entered the picture. The QB stinks, the backup is a green rookie, the play-calling is atrocious...It's a recipe for disaster.2. We all know that Stewart has had some monster games, most notably his 200+ yard Super Bowl (fantasy) performance in week 16 that probably cemented his status as an untradeable asset for the future. We also know that Stewart is 23 and possesses great physical skills. However Stewart had injury problems in college, has had nagging injuries THROUGHOUT his NFL career, has never proven that he can be an every-down back in the NFL, and here we are in season 3 and he still hasn't cemented himself as the every-down back. Yes, his situation is unique, because of Deangelo. But at some point the future has to become reality for dynasty owners.3. Foster is only 1 year older. Foster has talent that at one point was considered to be 2nd-3rd round material, before falling out of favor with the inept staff at Tennessee during his final year and going undrafted. Foster also has 3 NFL starts. In those three starts he has 97, 119, and 231 yards. And 6 touchdowns. His YPC is through the roof. Now this might be the PERFECT buy low, sell high, and I'm falling hook-line-and-sinker for it. Foster at his absolute peak, and Stewart at an absolute low....But at this point, since we can't predict injuries, it's a slam dunk that Foster is going to far outperform Stewart in 2010.So why not reap the benefits of Foster in 2010 for another couple months and THEN trade him for Stewart. Why go backwards for the next few months?I guess the only way I would pull the trigger on that trade is if I was absolutely loaded at RB anyway, and would be fine without production from Stewart in 2010 and if I was absolutely convinced in Stewart's future as a STUD. Also possibly, if my team had no chance at competing this year, then Foster for Stewart is a trade that would be very legitimate, and would also make you worse in 2010, thus getting you a better draft pick and a better player for the future.But aside from those two scenarios, if an owner is trying to win in 2010, trading Foster for Stewart seems pretty crazy to me.
 
humpback said:
SSOG said:
Too impatient to wait for Monday? First impression QB Rankings Update is live at www.dynastyrankings.net. Change log is available here: http://www.dynastyrankings.net/forums/view...p?f=3&t=107. Looking forward to hearing some thoughts.

Edit: I'll get to the RB, WR, and TE updates tonight or tomorrow. All rankings will be updated to reflect today's action in time for Tuesday waivers.
:P for the RB rankings especially.
Well then, Getcha popcorn ready, because the RB Rankings are live. :)
 
SSOG said:
GreatLakesMike said:
Northern Voice said:
benm3218 said:
Remember Miles Austin? Took awhile before he was considered legit too.
I'm not sure I would trade Austin straight up in a dynasty league for any WR right now, including Andre Johnson...
:P
I don't know what's so funny about it. If Austin had more track record than 12 games, I would have put him in Tier 1 with Fitz, Johnson, and Johnson. In my mind, any guy in that tier is pretty interchangeable. A few more games like Austin had last week and he'll make the leap. He's Beast Mode 2.0, and 3 years younger. I wouldn't take him over Andre Johnson, but I wouldn't call someone insane if they did.
Exactly, he's younger, he's looking equally dominant, and he's not looking like a one year wonder. Plus, I think he'll score more TD's than AJ. I don't think it's a stretch at all to put them at about the same value.
 
Now this might be the PERFECT buy low, sell high, and I'm falling hook-line-and-sinker for it.
:goodposting: Your Stewart/Foster argument is a textbook example of "What have you done for me lately?" thinking taken to the extreme.
We shall see. I happen to think Foster is the real deal and you are under-valuing him. I also think that it's pretty clear that (barring injury), Jonathan Stewart is going to have another up-and-down season. As such, I don't know why an owner that is trying to win would make the trade right now, as it clearly weakens their roster in the short-term, and there are no real guarantees that it improves their roster in the long-term.I mean, if Foster is a top-ten back this year...don't you think he will be next year? And 2012? He's on a young and improving team. If the Texans take that next step this year, as it looks like they just might be doing, Foster might very well have just played himself into a great situation for the next 5 years.
 
We shall see. I happen to think Foster is the real deal and you are under-valuing him. I also think that it's pretty clear that (barring injury), Jonathan Stewart is going to have another up-and-down season. As such, I don't know why an owner that is trying to win would make the trade right now, as it clearly weakens their roster in the short-term, and there are no real guarantees that it improves their roster in the long-term.

I mean, if Foster is a top-ten back this year...don't you think he will be next year? And 2012? He's on a young and improving team. If the Texans take that next step this year, as it looks like they just might be doing, Foster might very well have just played himself into a great situation for the next 5 years.
I think the bolded part of the statement is where you and EBF (as well as others) disagree. I think EBF's line of thinking doesn't disagree that Foster could be a top-ten back this season, but rather questions his long term status as a top 10 back. In general, situations are fleeting and talent is what remains consistant. If Schaub or Andre Johnson tear their ACL tomorrow, does Foster still have the talent to remain a top-ten back? With Stewart, I think most people are comfortable with the answer to that question- he is capable of performing at elite levels regardless of the talent around him. With Arian Foster, I'm not sure anyone is comfortable answering that question with any confidence either way- he certainly could have the ability to become an elite producer regardless of the level of talent around him, but he also could just be a product of that talent around him. The uncertainty around him is a big part of what should drag his value down. You don't have to be a first round pick with tons of pedigree to succeed and become elite and you certainly can become a bust even if drafted in the first round, however the odds of making it from undrafted free agent to elite NFL producer are MUCH longer than going from high 1st round pick to elite NFL producer. In the long run, you will come out the winner when you trade unsure question marks for essentially sure things. You may misfire on rare occassions (Miles Austin), but you will overall field a much stronger team if you are able to trade all your uncertain assets for certain ones.In this particular situation, the window to make such a trade (if it were even possible, as I wouldn't expect many Stewart owners to be eager to ship him for Foster in a dynasty league, speaking as a Stewart owner myself) is here and now. You can't wait until the end of the season to try and do it, as you suggested, because once the season ends, DeAngelo very well may move on and Stewart would finally have the backfield to himself, instantly causing his actual value to match his perceived value (and his perceived value is vastly above anything Foster could hope to have, barring ridiculous numbers this season).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now this might be the PERFECT buy low, sell high, and I'm falling hook-line-and-sinker for it.
:thumbdown: Your Stewart/Foster argument is a textbook example of "What have you done for me lately?" thinking taken to the extreme.
Out of curiosity, EBF, what do you think is "equivalent value" for Foster right now? Name me 2-3 RBs who you would have to think the longest about whether you'd accept that trade or not.
 
humpback said:
SSOG said:
Too impatient to wait for Monday? First impression QB Rankings Update is live at www.dynastyrankings.net. Change log is available here: http://www.dynastyrankings.net/forums/view...p?f=3&t=107. Looking forward to hearing some thoughts.

Edit: I'll get to the RB, WR, and TE updates tonight or tomorrow. All rankings will be updated to reflect today's action in time for Tuesday waivers.
:thumbdown: for the RB rankings especially.
Well then, Getcha popcorn ready, because the RB Rankings are live. :wub:
You da man!
 
Now this might be the PERFECT buy low, sell high, and I'm falling hook-line-and-sinker for it.
:banned: Your Stewart/Foster argument is a textbook example of "What have you done for me lately?" thinking taken to the extreme.
We shall see. I happen to think Foster is the real deal and you are under-valuing him. I also think that it's pretty clear that (barring injury), Jonathan Stewart is going to have another up-and-down season. As such, I don't know why an owner that is trying to win would make the trade right now, as it clearly weakens their roster in the short-term, and there are no real guarantees that it improves their roster in the long-term.I mean, if Foster is a top-ten back this year...don't you think he will be next year? And 2012? He's on a young and improving team. If the Texans take that next step this year, as it looks like they just might be doing, Foster might very well have just played himself into a great situation for the next 5 years.
I would rather have Foster than Stewart in a redraft league.Long term, I see no reason to believe that Foster will have a better career. Pretty much every objective factor favors Stewart. Foster had a massive weekend. Stewart barely played. Yesterday was most likely the best game of Foster's career and one of the worst of Stewart's. I'm not going to let 1/16th of a season radically skew my perception of what these players are going to do for the next 3, 4, or 5 years. This is dynasty 101, folks. React to current developments, but don't lose perspective.
I mean, if Foster is a top-ten back this year...don't you think he will be next year? And 2012? He's on a young and improving team. If the Texans take that next step this year, as it looks like they just might be doing, Foster might very well have just played himself into a great situation for the next 5 years.
You're putting the cart well before the horse. Foster had a great game yesterday, but alas it was only ONE GAME. Here are some other good games:Jerome Harrison - 12/20/2009 - 34 carries, 286 yards, 3 TDsJulius Jones - 12/06/2004 - 30 carries, 198 yards, 3 TDsWilliam Green - 12/29/2002 - 27 carries, 178 yards, 2 TDsChris Brown - 10/11/2004 - 27 carries, 148 yards, 2 TDsRon Dayne - 12/24/2006 - 32 carries, 153 yards, 2 TDs Quentin Griffin - 12/21/2003 - 28 carries, 136 yardsKevin Jones - 12/05/2004 - 26 carries, 196 yards, 1 TDLadell Betts - 12/10/2006 - 33 carries, 171 yardsKevan Barlow - 12/21/2003 - 30 carries, 154 yardsCadillac Williams - 9/11/2005 - 27 carries, 148 yards, 1 TDSteve Slaton - 11/16/2008 - 14 carries, 156 yards There are a few important things to remember before you start spazzing out about a great game:- Even "bad" NFL RBs are usually pretty good. If they weren't, they wouldn't be on a pro roster.- If you give any NFL RB 25+ carries, there's a decent chance that he'll compile a lot of yards. - In a small sample size, variance plays a huge factor. 1-2 lucky breaks such as a great block from a teammate or a blown assignment/call from the defense can literally add 100 yards and 2 TDs to a player's game total. Because of all of these things, you can't just look at one single game or even a small sequence of games and draw meaningful conclusions about a player's future. Want some more proof?Lee Suggs had three straight 100+ yard rushing games at the end of the 2004 season. Cadillac Williams began the 2005 season with three straight 120+ yard rushing games. Julius Jones had back-to-back 150+ yard rushing games in his rookie year. Chris Brown opened the 2004 season with three straight 100+ yard rushing games at 5.4 YPC. In the final four games of the 2006 season, Ron Dayne compiled 429 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs. What team was Dayne playing for? The Houston Texans. Who was his coach? Gary Kubiak. PERSPECTIVE, PERSPECTIVE, PERSPECTIVEHere's a little more:- Arian Foster was so impressive at Tennessee that not a single NFL franchise opted to use a draft pick on him.- Arian Foster was so impressive in Texans training camp last year that they sent him to the practice squad, exposing him for any other team in the league to sign away. - The Texans had so much faith in Arian Foster as the future of their RB corps that they traded up to select Ben Tate in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft. And yet because Foster won the starting job in Tate's absence and shredded what looked like a pathetic Colts run D in one single game, I'm to believe that he's not only a top 10 RB this season, but also a top 10 RB in 2011, 2012, 2013, and so on?Gimme a break. I've been playing this hobby long enough to see my fair share of craptastic frauds fool people into thinking they're the next great thing. For every few Chris Browns and William Greens there is an Adrian Peterson or a Chris Johnson, but those guys are the exceptions and not the rule. Usually they have much stronger backgrounds than Foster, a middling physical talent who went undrafted, basically landed in the perfect place, and was lucky to have minimal legitimate competition for touches.Could Foster still have a good year? Sure. The stars have aligned for him. I think he's clearly the best back on the roster and it's unlikely that anything other than an injury will relegate him to the bench. He could be one of the keys to winning your league in 2010. Does any of this mean that he's a great dynasty back who has a hammer lock on the starting job and will yield several elite seasons in succession? Not at all. There's no indication that he's a great back worthy of entering the discussion with the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, and Steven Jackson. The odds would probably suggest that a career trajectory like Barlow/Betts/CBrown is a more realistic expectation. Rudi Johnson might be a good middle ground for his situation. Either way, a few good games don't mean anything. Every year I make several posts to this effect because every year people overreact to the flavor of the week flash in the pan. I've seen it happen so many times that I know it's going to happen every season.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now this might be the PERFECT buy low, sell high, and I'm falling hook-line-and-sinker for it.
:banned: Your Stewart/Foster argument is a textbook example of "What have you done for me lately?" thinking taken to the extreme.
Out of curiosity, EBF, what do you think is "equivalent value" for Foster right now? Name me 2-3 RBs who you would have to think the longest about whether you'd accept that trade or not.
Depends on roster composition. I like Foster's 2010 outlook and would be reluctant to move him if I thought I had a team that could contend. I think his sell high window will extend into the offseason, much like what we saw with Matt Forte and Steve Slaton in 2008. I would say he's comparable in value to a Ronnie Brown/Cedric Benson/Ryan Grant. A little more desirable than those guys because of his youth, but perhaps not worth a McCoy/Greene/Felix to a rebuilding team because the latter cluster have more compelling backgrounds. Somewhere in the RB15-RB25 range is about right.
 
Not to take away from your point, but I believe all indications in Texans camp were that Foster would be starting, even PRIOR to the Tate injury.

 
Not to take away from your point, but I believe all indications in Texans camp were that Foster would be starting, even PRIOR to the Tate injury.
I don't doubt it.Look, I'm not trying to say Foster is complete crap. He has earned this opportunity and seized it.On the other hand, none of this means he's a long term star at the NFL level. Lest we forget that once upon a time Chris Brown, Julius Jones, and Kevan Barlow were the unquestioned starters for their NFL teams. The players who really last at the RB position in the NFL almost all have otherwordly talent:Clinton PortisSteven JacksonLaDainian TomlinsonDeuce McAllisterShaun AlexanderEdgerrin JamesRicky WilliamsFrank GoreAdrian PetersonCan you tell me with a straight face that Foster is this caliber of a back? I think even with the 200 yard-colored glasses, most people can admit that he's not on the elite plane. That doesn't mean he can't be a useful cog for FF teams this season and perhaps beyond. I just think people need to be realistic in their expectations. A career in the Rudi/Grant/Anderson/CBrown vein (or perhaps even worse) seems like a much more reasonable expectation than a career in the SJax/Portis/Ricky/LT vein.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Look, if you asked me "who is more talented, Stewart or Foster?", I'd say Stewart. If you asked me who would have a better career, I'd say Stewart.

But if you asked me who is more valuable RIGHT NOW, I'd say Foster. Now maybe that's a fundamental error with the way I'm approaching dynasty leagues. But assuming he stays healthy, Foster will be more valuable in week 9, when a team is trying to load up for the playoffs, than in week 2, where most teams are still holding out hope for this year.

Unless Foster gets injured, I can't imagine a scenario where Foster's trade value would FALL during the season. Everyone knows he won't get 200 yards a game. But if he continues to hover around 80-90 yards per game, his value will do nothing but continue to rise, as Miles Austin's did.

You yourself said that you'd rather have Foster in a re-draft league. As such, I would think that if you owned Foster in a dynasty, that you'd try and get a little more use out of him before dumping him for a guy mired in a deep RBBC on a bad team.

 
To offer some perspective, 35 RBs have combined for 60 200 yard rushing games from 1995 to 2009. Here's a complete list of every RB since 1995 to rush for 200 yards in a single game, as well as what the games were for the guys who only had 1:

Shaun Alexander x2

Mike Anderson (37/251/4)

Tiki Barber x5 (yes, FIVE of them)

Jamaal Charles (25/259/2)

Terrell Davis x3

Corey Dillon x3

Warrick Dunn (22/210/2)

Marshall Faulk x3

Charlie Garner (36/201/1)

Eddie George (35/216/1)

Frank Gore x2

Ahman Green (20/218/2)

Jerome Harrison (34/286/3)

Priest Holmes (36/287/1)

Fred Jackson (33/212/0)

Edgerrin James x2

Chris Johnson (24/228/2)

Larry Johnson x2

LeShon Johnson (21/214/2)

Rudi Johnson (26/202/2)

Thomas Jones (22/210/1)

Napoleon Kaufman (28/227/1)

Jamal Lewis x3

Curtis Martin (30/203/1)

Willie Parker x2

Adrian Peterson x2

Clinton Portis x2

Barry Sanders x2

Duce Staley (26/201/1)

Jonathan Stewart (28/206/1)

Fred Taylor (30/234/3)

LaDainian Tomlinson x4

Michael Turner x2

Derrick Ward (15/216/0)

Ricky Williams x2

Random fact that has nothing to do with Arian Foster: teams with a 200 yard rusher are 59-2 over that span. The two losses came by Ricky Williams vs. Buffalo in 2002, and by Thomas Jones vs. Buffalo in 2009. The Buffalo Bills are actually 2-1 in games where they allow a 200 yard rusher, while the rest of the league is 0-57.

Some real "WTF?!?!" names on that list. Some awesome names, no question, but definitely some "WTF?!?!" names, too.

 
But if you asked me who is more valuable RIGHT NOW, I'd say Foster. Now maybe that's a fundamental error with the way I'm approaching dynasty leagues. But assuming he stays healthy, Foster will be more valuable in week 9, when a team is trying to load up for the playoffs, than in week 2, where most teams are still holding out hope for this year.
Dynasty value isn't about who's more valuable "right now." Mark Clayton is more valuable than Trent Richardson, but if anyone offered me Richardson for Clayton, I would take it in a heartbeat.That's a radical example, but it illustrates my point.In dynasty leagues, we deal in player values over multiple seasons.
 
Not to take away from your point, but I believe all indications in Texans camp were that Foster would be starting, even PRIOR to the Tate injury.
I don't doubt it.Look, I'm not trying to say Foster is complete crap. He has earned this opportunity and seized it.On the other hand, none of this means he's a long term star at the NFL level. Lest we forget that once upon a time Chris Brown, Julius Jones, and Kevan Barlow were the unquestioned starters for their NFL teams. The players who really last at the RB position in the NFL almost all have otherwordly talent:Clinton PortisSteven JacksonLaDainian TomlinsonDeuce McAllisterShaun AlexanderEdgerrin JamesRicky WilliamsFrank GoreAdrian PetersonCan you tell me with a straight face that Foster is this caliber of a back? I think even with the 200 yard-colored glasses, most people can admit that he's not on the elite plane. That doesn't mean he can't be a useful cog for FF teams this season and perhaps beyond. I just think people need to be realistic in their expectations. A career in the Rudi/Grant/Anderson/CBrown vein (or perhaps even worse) seems like a much more reasonable expectation than a career in the SJax/Portis/Ricky/LT vein.
I can't tell you that he's NOT in this caliber. I don't think he is, but he has had three opportunities and is 3 for 3. TDavis was drafted in the 6th round and was elite in this type of system. You have the sole back in an emerging, explosive offense. This isn't just some random guy exploding on an average team. This is a team that is making the push to one of the elite teams, and Foster just helped them get the GIGANTIC Colts monkey off their back. He's just cemented his spot on that roster for as long as he can stay healthy and play at a solid level.
 
Look, if you asked me "who is more talented, Stewart or Foster?", I'd say Stewart. If you asked me who would have a better career, I'd say Stewart.

But if you asked me who is more valuable RIGHT NOW, I'd say Foster. Now maybe that's a fundamental error with the way I'm approaching dynasty leagues. But assuming he stays healthy, Foster will be more valuable in week 9, when a team is trying to load up for the playoffs, than in week 2, where most teams are still holding out hope for this year.

Unless Foster gets injured, I can't imagine a scenario where Foster's trade value would FALL during the season. Everyone knows he won't get 200 yards a game. But if he continues to hover around 80-90 yards per game, his value will do nothing but continue to rise, as Miles Austin's did.

You yourself said that you'd rather have Foster in a re-draft league. As such, I would think that if you owned Foster in a dynasty, that you'd try and get a little more use out of him before dumping him for a guy mired in a deep RBBC on a bad team.
How many LeShon Johnson owners were telling themselves the same thing after he had 21/214/2 in week 4 of 1996? Arizona made him the unquestioned starter after that game but he only topped 50 rushing yards 3 more times all season, and he eventually lost the starting job to Leland McElroy.How many Duce Staley owners were telling themselves the same thing after he had 26/201/1 in week 1 of 2000? Staley had 53 carries for 143 yards (2.70 ypc) over the next 4 weeks.

And why are we ignoring the possibility of a Foster injury? If you really think that Stewart is a more valuable asset than Foster, you shouldn't refrain from trading him thinking "unless Foster gets injured, I can always make this trade later, instead", because if Foster DOES get injured, you miss the boat entirely.

I will agree with EBF that it's not like a string of top-10 seasons and elite dynasty value are Foster's birthright at this point.

 
To be fair here, that list puts him in pretty darn good company. Sure, there are a couple of WTF names on there, but most are/were very good RBs. Not that it proves anything one way or the other, but just wanted to point that out.

 
SSOG said:
bweiser said:
Awesome. Thanks.
FWIW, if you're looking for a waiver wire QB, I've got Vick ahead of both of them. Last year he was rusty and didn't look like himself, so I was skeptical about how strong he could return from his incarceration. Those questions have all been answered, because he's vintage Vick again. He'll be starting for someone next year. It's possible he'll even be starting for someone this year. The nice thing about Vick, too, is that he's already been there, done that. He finished 3rd, 11th, 12th, and 3rd in the four seasons he played more than 6 games in Atlanta. We don't have to speculate whether his game translates, or about what his upside is, because he's already demonstrated it. I think there's a fantastic chance that he's performing as a fantasy QB1 next season. There's some risk involved, sure, but for a guy who is widely available on waivers in dynasty leagues, the risks are minimal.
I could never understand why the Raiders never took a chance on Vick. Coz they were All-In on JaMarcus?This guy is the ONE guy that could make that team with the crappiest of crappy lines a viable offense.I KNOW why Buffalo didn't pull the trigger... Demographics.
 
... plus the Chargers - who had the benefit of seeing him play and practice since he entered the league. So, his existing team and pretty much all of the teams with a need at WR1 balking at the price, including the Vikings who obviously have a desperate need without Rice and signed Javon effin Walker instead. Note that they're balking at the contract price, not the price that SD wants for him.

Regardless of your evaluation of him on the field, I think you're really reaching when you use this to justify V-Jax as an elite WR. You're speculating that he will get the big contract even though teams have explicitly said they didn't trade for him because of his contract demands. Meanwhile, as I said, Marshall already has his deal.

If you really think that this is evidence of whether a WR is elite or not, then shouldn't that mean Marshall is above VJAx on your rankings?
Jackson's agent made it clear he was looking for a top 5 contract. Teams still worked hard trying to get something in place to acquire Jackson. What, you think they had no clue he was going to ask for a huge contract? How naive do you think NFL front offices are? They're balking at the thought of paying him #1 in the NFL money, but obviously they have no compunction about giving him some sort of big-time contract, or they wouldn't even be talking to him.Look, it's still early. The arbiter still hasn't ruled about VJax's suspension. There's a lot of time for something to happen this season, and even if something doesn't happen this season, there's all next offseason. The next multi-year deal Vincent Jackson signs will rank him among the 5 highest paid receivers in the NFL. Guaranteed.
SSOG, I always respect your opinions and player evaluations, but come on man... your argument here is a bit ridiculous. I don't know what NFL teams are thinking when they talk to him - perhaps they think it didn't play out as VJ expected and might get desperate faced with the prospect of not playing at any price. In any case, the point is that he DOESN'T have a deal, and teams have explicitly said that his asking price is holding that back.

Meanwhile, Marshall got what was at the time the biggest WR contract ever - the same per year as what Larry got, and an extra year - in addition to the 2nd round pick that Miami gave up.

So, you're going to tell me that the fact that Vincent Jackson wants (and should probably get) a big deal, thus making him elite. Marshall GOT that same deal, so if you're going to use that as a criteria, shouldn't that indicate that he is also elite? And that at least one team was willing to pay him, while people are a little unsure whether VJ is.

Just saying.

 
Just for fun, here's a list of some of the biggest "WTF?!?!" receiving games over the past 15 years, too. Not trying to draw any conclusions from this, I was just checking when I was looking at 200 yard rushing games, and I thought it was pretty interesting to see some of the guys who had a 200 yard receiving game at one point or another.

[*]Don Beebe- 11/220/1. Beebe had a career year that season, finishing with... 39/699/4.

[*]Drew Bennett- 12/233/3. I'm sure fantasy owners remember the 2004 playoffs well, every league's juggernaut teams found themselves outgunned by whatever lucky owner was forced by desperation to start the Volek-to-Bennett hookup.

[*]Albert Connell- 7/211/3. Season ending stats: 39/762/3.

[*]Kevin Curtis- 11/221/3.

[*]Jabar Gaffney- 14/213/0 filling in for a suspended Brandon Marshall.

[*]Rod Gardner- 6/208/1. As a rookie. It's easy to forget, but once upon a team people thought he was a sure-fire stud in the making.

[*]Qadry Ismail- 6/248/3. In '97 and '98, he didn't have a single receiving yard. In one week in '99, he had 248 of them en route to the 2nd best fantasy game by a receiver in the last 15 years.

[*]Eddie Kennison- 5/226/3. Want to win a bar bet? Ask someone which rookie had the best fantasy game of the past 15 years. See how many people correctly guess Eddie Kennison.

[*]Keenan McCardell- 16/232/0. St. Louis has the most 200 yard receiving games (2 each by Bruce and Holt, 1 each by Faulk and Kennison). Denver's a surprise entrant at #2 (Gaffney, Marshall, Sharpe, Smith). Cincy ties for 3rd with 3 (two by Ocho and one by Pickens). You know what's a real shock, though? The team Cincy tied for 3rd was the Jacksonville Jaguars (two by Jimmy Smith, one by Keenan McCardell).

[*]Jimmy Smith- 15/291/3. It's not a surprise that Smith has a 200 yard game, given how good he was (actually, he has a pair of them). The surprise here is two-fold. First off, this was the best receiving game of the last 15 years. Second off, this game came against... the 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense. Seriously. Perhaps the greatest single-game performance by any WR in NFL history.

Fun fact: The top 8 fantasy games by a WR in the last 15 years belong to, in order: Jimmy Smith, Qadry Ismail, Drew Bennett, Terrell Owens, David Patton, Eddie Kennison, Kevin Curtis, and Albert Connell. Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense.

Bonus fun fact: Javon Walker is the only player to own two of the top 12 fantasy games over that span. His 11/200/3 game in Green Bay checks in at 12th, and his 6/134/2 receiving + 1/72/1 rushing game for Denver checks in at 9th.

 
To be fair here, that list puts him in pretty darn good company. Sure, there are a couple of WTF names on there, but most are/were very good RBs. Not that it proves anything one way or the other, but just wanted to point that out.
I was never trying to imply that Foster is a fluke or anything. He's definitely in good company. I was just pointing out that a 200 yard game hardly makes you a lock for fantasy stardom.
SSOG, I always respect your opinions and player evaluations, but come on man... your argument here is a bit ridiculous. I don't know what NFL teams are thinking when they talk to him - perhaps they think it didn't play out as VJ expected and might get desperate faced with the prospect of not playing at any price. In any case, the point is that he DOESN'T have a deal, and teams have explicitly said that his asking price is holding that back. Meanwhile, Marshall got what was at the time the biggest WR contract ever - the same per year as what Larry got, and an extra year - in addition to the 2nd round pick that Miami gave up. So, you're going to tell me that the fact that Vincent Jackson wants (and should probably get) a big deal, thus making him elite. Marshall GOT that same deal, so if you're going to use that as a criteria, shouldn't that indicate that he is also elite? And that at least one team was willing to pay him, while people are a little unsure whether VJ is. Just saying.
Isn't this kind of a specious argument, since I have Brandon Marshall sitting 1 spot ahead of Vincent Jackson in my WR rankings?
 
jdoggydogg said:
I see. I think part of my mindset here is that I picked up Slaton very cheap before he blew up in 2008, saw him as a good sell high player, and traded him for a more talented player. So part of my reasoning is based on that - which is obviously irrelevant. Still, don't you think this is more of a question of a good player being in a perfect situation rather than a phenomenal talent?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. And that has a ton of value in Dynasty leagues. A good player in a perfect situation can have more value over the next three years than a great talent in a mediocre situation.
 
Meanwhile, Marshall got what was at the time the biggest WR contract ever - the same per year as what Larry got, and an extra year - in addition to the 2nd round pick that Miami gave up.
:cry: Not even close. It may have originally been reported that way by some outlets hearing from Marshall's agent, but the guaranteed money isn't even close.
 
jdoggydogg said:
I see. I think part of my mindset here is that I picked up Slaton very cheap before he blew up in 2008, saw him as a good sell high player, and traded him for a more talented player. So part of my reasoning is based on that - which is obviously irrelevant. Still, don't you think this is more of a question of a good player being in a perfect situation rather than a phenomenal talent?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. And that has a ton of value in Dynasty leagues. A good player in a perfect situation can have more value over the next three years than a great talent in a mediocre situation.
Then I am interested in your take on the Foster / Jonathan Stewart debate in this thread. No one would argue that Foster is as talented as Stewart. But Foster's situation is better. Are you saying you'd trade Stewart for Foster?
 
Meanwhile, Marshall got what was at the time the biggest WR contract ever - the same per year as what Larry got, and an extra year - in addition to the 2nd round pick that Miami gave up.
:thumbup: Not even close. It may have originally been reported that way by some outlets hearing from Marshall's agent, but the guaranteed money isn't even close.
Fine - perhaps it was hyperbole, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making. The salient point is that Marshall got $50m/5yrs with $26m guaranteed, while VJax didn't... VJ's agents have explicitly named Marhsall's contract as a benchmark, and a number of teams has said they don't want to pay him that money. And SSOG pointed to THAT - the fact that VJ WANTS, but doesn't HAVE, the deal that Marshall already has - as evidence that VJ was elite.
 
jdoggydogg said:
I see. I think part of my mindset here is that I picked up Slaton very cheap before he blew up in 2008, saw him as a good sell high player, and traded him for a more talented player. So part of my reasoning is based on that - which is obviously irrelevant. Still, don't you think this is more of a question of a good player being in a perfect situation rather than a phenomenal talent?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. And that has a ton of value in Dynasty leagues. A good player in a perfect situation can have more value over the next three years than a great talent in a mediocre situation.
Then I am interested in your take on the Foster / Jonathan Stewart debate in this thread. No one would argue that Foster is as talented as Stewart. But Foster's situation is better. Are you saying you'd trade Stewart for Foster?
Can't you just check his latest dynasty rankings for the answer to that? He posted them over the weekend. He had Foster at RB19 in Tier 4 and Stewart at RB7 in Tier 2. I seriously doubt one game closed that gap.That said, Chris, I did post a few comments on them earlier (Henne, Favre, Randy Moss). I'd be interested in feedback on those... :thumbup:

 
jdoggydogg said:
I see. I think part of my mindset here is that I picked up Slaton very cheap before he blew up in 2008, saw him as a good sell high player, and traded him for a more talented player. So part of my reasoning is based on that - which is obviously irrelevant. Still, don't you think this is more of a question of a good player being in a perfect situation rather than a phenomenal talent?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. And that has a ton of value in Dynasty leagues. A good player in a perfect situation can have more value over the next three years than a great talent in a mediocre situation.
Then I am interested in your take on the Foster / Jonathan Stewart debate in this thread. No one would argue that Foster is as talented as Stewart. But Foster's situation is better. Are you saying you'd trade Stewart for Foster?
Can't you just check his latest dynasty rankings for the answer to that? He posted them over the weekend. He had Foster at RB19 in Tier 4 and Stewart at RB7 in Tier 2. I seriously doubt one game closed that gap.
It's a rhetorical question. I know he has Stewart ranked much higher than Foster. That's why I asked him to reconcile his posts on this board vs. his rankings.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top