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Your right, anything can happen in the future, thats why talent is the most important thinhg because it always exsists.

Im sure if i played in money dynasty leagues i would look at the short term more too. Money changes the the way people play dynasty leagues because nobody will rebuild if their team is bad, they just quit and find a new league. Which is one of the reasons i dont play in money dynasty leagues anymore.

Not really true from my experience. One league I have been in since 2003 (with EBF & Team Legacy) has 17 of 24 original owners (the league has two 12 teams conferences). Another league, Fantasy Legends II (with JohnnyU) started in 2004 has 6 of 12 original owners. In both leagues, there has been no problem finding replacements for owners with terrible teams who leave - there seems to be always someone out there who likes the challenge of rebuilding (although sometimes it may require an added incentive like an extra draft pick or reduced dues for the first year).

I myself, will take over a doormat team if it has at least 3-4 developmental players I like and the future draft picks haven't been traded away. It doesn't take that long to rebuild a team as long the waiver wire is not blind bidding (blind bidding will increase the rebuilding process from 2-3 years to about 3-5).

I very much agree with you regarding building a team through WW. To tell you the truth, my drafts aren't usually very good, but I'm always on top of the WW (talking about redrafts). Of course the WW is more baren in dynasty, but still, as long as the WW is available and free, then you can build a team in very short time.
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Brewtown, the other day I posted that you were the worst thing to happen to draft discussion here in a long time--within hours it had 7-8 likes. That should tell you something.

I've been a part of this thread almost from the beginning. I've learned a lot. I've made some friends. But...let's please keep the personal attacks to a minimum. It isn't fun. Tell me what you think

Good. It's settled then. I'll continue to disregard your "analysis" and you can ignore mine. I don't think anyone in this thread will miss these exchanges.

You got the wrong impression of what I was saying. No one plays fantasy to make money, lol. You could make 100 times by flipping burgers at Mcdonalds. But money does make it far more exciting, and it is a simple reality that when money is involved everyone in the league takes it much more seriously...but this is off topic and all, so like i said in the first post, to each his own.

I dont agree with this, dynasty football is as interesting as the people playing. If it takes money to make it interesting to people, thats not the kind of guy i am looking to play with. Most peoples time they spend on FF is worth more than money. I am currenty in 3 championship games that are still up in the air. I have found myslef more concerned about the free dynasty league result than the other two that will result in me winning money. Im not saying playing for money is wrong, as long s the money isnt the motivation.

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What are people's thoughts on Danario Alexander (STL)? Major inj issues, but is there any consensus on his upside.I have really like what I've seen of him this year, although admittedly limited.

there's like a War and Peace sized thread on Alexander, and it's probably on the first page . . .
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What are people's thoughts on Danario Alexander (STL)? Major inj issues, but is there any consensus on his upside.I have really like what I've seen of him this year, although admittedly limited.

there's like a War and Peace sized thread on Alexander, and it's probably on the first page . . .
I was hoping to avoid that mess and have a discussion contained in this thread. It's a nice hub for things/players dynasty-specific. Thanks though. Maybe I should just refer to that thread for info (even though most of the discussion is at least a month old). Edited by mlball77
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What are people's thoughts on Danario Alexander (STL)? Major inj issues, but is there any consensus on his upside.I have really like what I've seen of him this year, although admittedly limited.

there's like a War and Peace sized thread on Alexander, and it's probably on the first page . . .
I was hoping to avoid that mess and have a discussion contained in this thread. It's a nice hub for things/players dynasty-specific. Thanks though. Maybe I should just refer to that thread for info (even though most of the discussion is at least a month old).
I would look back for a post by a Poster by the name of Lash. I play in a league with him - good guy. He posted an interview of an assistant coach, who said that he felt Alexander was a better fooball player than Jeremy Maclin, when healthy.I personally don't know much about him, other than his injury history and the fact that he is a young physical speciman playing for a team with Sam Bradford at the helm for the next decade. I think he is worth a roster spot, but I am not comforable trading for him without more info.
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What are people's thoughts on Danario Alexander (STL)? Major inj issues, but is there any consensus on his upside.I have really like what I've seen of him this year, although admittedly limited.

there's like a War and Peace sized thread on Alexander, and it's probably on the first page . . .
I was hoping to avoid that mess and have a discussion contained in this thread. It's a nice hub for things/players dynasty-specific. Thanks though. Maybe I should just refer to that thread for info (even though most of the discussion is at least a month old).
I would look back for a post by a Poster by the name of Lash. I play in a league with him - good guy. He posted an interview of an assistant coach, who said that he felt Alexander was a better fooball player than Jeremy Maclin, when healthy.I personally don't know much about him, other than his injury history and the fact that he is a young physical speciman playing for a team with Sam Bradford at the helm for the next decade. I think he is worth a roster spot, but I am not comforable trading for him without more info.
Thanks. :lmao: I tracked that info down on page 252 of this thread, in case anyone else is interested. I've only seen parts of 2 games where Alexander played, but I came away feeling like he was a legit playmaker. I guess it depends what the asking price is for him to determine if his huge inj risk is worth it.
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What are people's thoughts on Danario Alexander (STL)? Major inj issues, but is there any consensus on his upside.

I have really like what I've seen of him this year, although admittedly limited.

there's like a War and Peace sized thread on Alexander, and it's probably on the first page . . .

Here is the link to the 14 page Alexander thread if anyone is interested:

Danario Alexander

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Why would this year or next year be any more important than a season 5 years from now...unless the person is worried the league wont be around in 5 years?

Um, because it is easier to predict what is going to happen next year than in 5 years. Unless you have psychic abilities that the rest of us don't, the further one projects into the future, the harder it is to be accurate. Do you honestly think you can predict what will happen in 2015 better than I (or anyone) can predict what will happen in 2011? That is the flaw in the logic of I will just draft the best talent, then sit back, and be a champion in 2015, because by the time 2015 rolls around it probably won't be what you anticipated.

And I don't know about you, but I can't absolutely guarantee that I will be here in 2015 (let alone any fantasy league). I am good health, I should be, but I knew some people that felt the same 5 years ago that are now six feet under. But as you noted, to each his own and I am more pragmatic in my thinking and live more in the present than most people - perhaps not the best way to go, but that is how my mind works.

Of course i want to win this year as well. You dont need to accurately predict the future to give yourself better odds in the future. I dont know that Larry Fitzgerald will be healthy and playing 5 years from now, but based on his talent i feel his chances are better that a guy that i believe is less talented and might be producing due to situation.

There is the reason i started building my dynasty teams around WR's over the last several years after being a RB hoarder early in my dynasty career. I feel much better with a young WR still being around, healthy and productive 5 years from now than do i RB's.

I also base my dynasty rankings more on talent than situatiuon because talent will last longer than a situation. That doesnt mean i know what is going to happen, just what has the better chance of happening.

Also, its not easy to predict what is going to happen NEXT year unless you have physic ability the rest of us dont.

Well, of course...but I bet I can predict what will happen next year with a lot more accuracy than you can predict will happen in 5 years - and that was my point, as I play in cash leagues and the immediate future that I can better gauge is more important to me than if I played in a free league and all that was at stake was some bragging rights 3-5 years down the road.
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Why would this year or next year be any more important than a season 5 years from now...unless the person is worried the league wont be around in 5 years?

Um, because it is easier to predict what is going to happen next year than in 5 years. Unless you have psychic abilities that the rest of us don't, the further one projects into the future, the harder it is to be accurate. Do you honestly think you can predict what will happen in 2015 better than I (or anyone) can predict what will happen in 2011? That is the flaw in the logic of I will just draft the best talent, then sit back, and be a champion in 2015, because by the time 2015 rolls around it probably won't be what you anticipated.

And I don't know about you, but I can't absolutely guarantee that I will be here in 2015 (let alone any fantasy league). I am good health, I should be, but I knew some people that felt the same 5 years ago that are now six feet under. But as you noted, to each his own and I am more pragmatic in my thinking and live more in the present than most people - perhaps not the best way to go, but that is how my mind works.

Of course i want to win this year as well. You dont need to accurately predict the future to give yourself better odds in the future. I dont know that Larry Fitzgerald will be healthy and playing 5 years from now, but based on his talent i feel his chances are better that a guy that i believe is less talented and might be producing due to situation.

There is the reason i started building my dynasty teams around WR's over the last several years after being a RB hoarder early in my dynasty career. I feel much better with a young WR still being around, healthy and productive 5 years from now than do i RB's.

I also base my dynasty rankings more on talent than situatiuon because talent will last longer than a situation. That doesnt mean i know what is going to happen, just what has the better chance of happening.

Also, its not easy to predict what is going to happen NEXT year unless you have physic ability the rest of us dont.

Well, of course...but I bet I can predict what will happen next year with a lot more accuracy than you can predict will happen in 5 years - and that was my point, as I play in cash leagues and the immediate future that I can better gauge is more important to me than if I played in a free league and all that was at stake was some bragging rights 3-5 years down the road.

I dont have to predict the future, i just have to do it better than my leaguemayes, and thats the fun for me. We play for two different reasons, neither is right/or wrong.

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Any thoughts on Peyton Hillis' future? Is he a sell high this offseason? Not sure all that much can be had for him in dynasty...

I would say his value is higher now than it will be next summer, but that depends on the health of Hardesty.Cleveland area sports talk people think Mangini is gone. Mornhinweg's name has come up because of his ties to Holmgren and Heckert.Hillis needs to go to the Tiki Barber fumble-itis schooledit: bad spelling Edited by The Man With No Name
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.

I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

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I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

Considering that both these cats are going to check in as the #1 and #2 RB, it's a given they won't have seasons as good as 2010.
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I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

Considering that both these cats are going to check in as the #1 and #2 RB, it's a given they won't have seasons as good as 2010.
Guess i was just stating the obvious there. :rolleyes:
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit.

I'm sort of seeing QB like this:

Rodgers

Brees

Brady

Freeman

Bradford

ManningP

Luck

Vick

Rivers

Ryan

Ben

Flacco

But honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.
If Kubiak gets fired or is woooed by the broncos who knows what becomes of the scheme/starter there. Seems to me the RB1 houston is a productive spot, Dom Davis, Slaton, Foster all had marvelous seasons.
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.
If Kubiak gets fired or is woooed by the broncos who knows what becomes of the scheme/starter there. Seems to me the RB1 houston is a productive spot, Dom Davis, Slaton, Foster all had marvelous seasons.
The difference for me is Foster passes the eye test. Slaton never did for me. Davis was solid and who knows what would have became of him if not for injuries, but I personally did not consider him an elite talent. I think Foster is.I really do not see a weakness in Foster's game. He has very good speed for his size, is tough to tackle, pretty elusive for a bigger RB, solid in the passing game, and above all he has great vision and instincts. I don't think he is anywhere near scheme dependent. I personally think Foster is an elite talent and a definite top-5 or so dynasty RB. If anyone sees a weakness in his game, I'd sure like to know what it is because I'm not seeing it.
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

Where I think the situations for Hillis and Foster diverge is the other weapons on their respective rosters. Foster has done what he has done with other weapons other than himself; Hillis is pretty much it (with Cribbs out).Next year, one would have to think the Browns will load up at least somewhat, which should take away some action from Hillis. For Foster, there are already other significant weapons there and he still did what he did this year.I guess I don't see Foster's workload decreasing as much, percentage-wise, as I do Hillis'.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit. I'm sort of seeing QB like this:RodgersBreesBradyFreemanBradfordManningPLuckVickRiversRyanBenFlaccoBut honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

I think Freeman is going to be a good one, but top 5 seems like a stretch. I'd probably swap him and Rivers and move Luck to the bottom of the list.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit. I'm sort of seeing QB like this:RodgersBreesBradyFreemanBradfordManningPLuckVickRiversRyanBenFlaccoBut honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

I think Freeman is going to be a good one, but top 5 seems like a stretch. I'd probably swap him and Rivers and move Luck to the bottom of the list.
One game does not make a career. I am high on Freeman but putting him in the top 10 would be hard for me to do right now.
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One game does not make a career. I am high on Freeman but putting him in the top 10 would be hard for me to do right now.

He does state pretty clearly that its a ranking for the long term. Its anyones guess really.. I don't care exactly where he ends up on the list, the point I'm trying to make is simply that I think he'll be a good QB.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit. I'm sort of seeing QB like this:RodgersBreesBradyFreemanBradfordManningPLuckVickRiversRyanBenFlaccoBut honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

I think Freeman is going to be a good one, but top 5 seems like a stretch. I'd probably swap him and Rivers and move Luck to the bottom of the list.
One game does not make a career. I am high on Freeman but putting him in the top 10 would be hard for me to do right now.
Wow. I'd put Romo, who didn't make the list, at 3, and Freeman outside of the top ten. Bradford is a good QB but top five? His game might or might not translate to fantasy production. Freeman, same thing. Who are the weapons that are going to enable him to put up 3 touchdowns and 300 yards most weeks? Rivers, you know you're getting huge numbers. Putting Luck or Bradford or Freeman ahead of him is an enormous, enormous leap of faith.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit. I'm sort of seeing QB like this:RodgersBreesBradyFreemanBradfordManningPLuckVickRiversRyanBenFlaccoBut honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

I think Freeman is going to be a good one, but top 5 seems like a stretch. I'd probably swap him and Rivers and move Luck to the bottom of the list.
One game does not make a career. I am high on Freeman but putting him in the top 10 would be hard for me to do right now.
Wow. I'd put Romo, who didn't make the list, at 3, and Freeman outside of the top ten. Bradford is a good QB but top five? His game might or might not translate to fantasy production. Freeman, same thing. Who are the weapons that are going to enable him to put up 3 touchdowns and 300 yards most weeks? Rivers, you know you're getting huge numbers. Putting Luck or Bradford or Freeman ahead of him is an enormous, enormous leap of faith.
Romo to me isn't a hold in a 1QB system at this point. For one, he's old and has missed lots of injury time. When I rank QBs long term if you miss major time in 2 seasons I drop you out of the top 10. There are many other factors even outside of that to drop Romo even more (coaching changes, OL is horrid, and lack of running game). None of these to me seem to be fixable in the short, or long term with the current management structure in place at Dallas. I'm mainly looking at production over the next 5 years with production over the next 2 factoring about half of it. I'm sort of wondering if Freeman is a buy in a start 1QB league for the long term.
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Where does everyone stick Freeman at this point? I'm trying to figure out long term value here and I'm struggling a bit. I'm sort of seeing QB like this:RodgersBreesBradyFreemanBradfordManningPLuckVickRiversRyanBenFlaccoBut honestly, I could get talked into putting Freeman anywhere between 2nd and 10th. He's a total wildcard for me right now.

I think Freeman is going to be a good one, but top 5 seems like a stretch. I'd probably swap him and Rivers and move Luck to the bottom of the list.
One game does not make a career. I am high on Freeman but putting him in the top 10 would be hard for me to do right now.
Wow. I'd put Romo, who didn't make the list, at 3, and Freeman outside of the top ten. Bradford is a good QB but top five? His game might or might not translate to fantasy production. Freeman, same thing. Who are the weapons that are going to enable him to put up 3 touchdowns and 300 yards most weeks? Rivers, you know you're getting huge numbers. Putting Luck or Bradford or Freeman ahead of him is an enormous, enormous leap of faith.
Romo to me isn't a hold in a 1QB system at this point. For one, he's old and has missed lots of injury time. When I rank QBs long term if you miss major time in 2 seasons I drop you out of the top 10. There are many other factors even outside of that to drop Romo even more (coaching changes, OL is horrid, and lack of running game). None of these to me seem to be fixable in the short, or long term with the current management structure in place at Dallas. I'm mainly looking at production over the next 5 years with production over the next 2 factoring about half of it. I'm sort of wondering if Freeman is a buy in a start 1QB league for the long term.
Rather than argue for or against Freeman, I'll just say that if you value Freeman anywhere close to what you posted, you should be buying him. His price isn't nearly that IMO.My biggest issue with what you have is Rivers. I can't imagine anyone would trade him for Freeman, Bradford, Manning or Luck.
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Romo to me isn't a hold in a 1QB system at this point. For one, he's old and has missed lots of injury time. When I rank QBs long term if you miss major time in 2 seasons I drop you out of the top 10.

You're gonna have to unwrap this quite a bit.

Romo -- 30 yrs old

Brees -- 31 yrs old

Brady -- 33 yrs old

Rivers -- 29 yrs old

Peyton -- 34 yrs old

Umm, he's nowhere NEAR old for QB. The guy easily has 5 yrs of top production. So let's get to that "missed lots of injury time"

2006 -- 16 games played (well, 10, but this was his 1st year as started and took over during week 6. Was active for all 16 and didn't miss any time)

2007 -- 16 games played

2008 -- 13 games played

2009 -- 16 games played

So in his first 4 years as a starter, he missed 3 total games. This year he sustained a fractured clavicle (which has no long-term effects whatsoever) and he's "Missed lots of injury time" and warrants dropping out of the top 10? Really?

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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.

The difference for me is Foster passes the eye test. Slaton never did for me. Davis was solid and who knows what would have became of him if not for injuries, but I personally did not consider him an elite talent. I think Foster is.

are you an nfl scout? college? high school? what are you credentials for having such a "keen" eye for identifying "elite" talent. seems that a team could use your services considering foster went undrafted.
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Romo to me isn't a hold in a 1QB system at this point. For one, he's old and has missed lots of injury time. When I rank QBs long term if you miss major time in 2 seasons I drop you out of the top 10. There are many other factors even outside of that to drop Romo even more (coaching changes, OL is horrid, and lack of running game). None of these to me seem to be fixable in the short, or long term with the current management structure in place at Dallas. I'm mainly looking at production over the next 5 years with production over the next 2 factoring about half of it. I'm sort of wondering if Freeman is a buy in a start 1QB league for the long term.

Romo is only 30 years old. That is young for a QB. I also don't know how injuries should be an issue. Other than the broken collarbone (which should not count against him), he has only missed 3 games since becoming a starter in 2006. The Cowboys have a ton of elite skill position players (Dez, Austin, Witten) and are good enough at RB. Their line is solid enough when healthy. Obviously they could be more consistent running the ball but even with that I think he has one of the better situations around. At the time he was injured, he was 6th in QB scoring and that includes the fact that he had a bye week. I think he is a borderline top-5 dynasty QB.
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.

The difference for me is Foster passes the eye test. Slaton never did for me. Davis was solid and who knows what would have became of him if not for injuries, but I personally did not consider him an elite talent. I think Foster is.

are you an nfl scout? college? high school? what are you credentials for having such a "keen" eye for identifying "elite" talent. seems that a team could use your services considering foster went undrafted.
Who said you have to be an NFL scout to judge someones talent? You and I and any serious football fan that watches a lot of games know far more than they/we/I think we do. By the way, Warren Moon, Kurt Warner, James Harrison, Priest Holmes, Dick "Night Train" Lane, John Randle, Tony Romo, and Antonio Gates, were all undrafted. Tom Brady went in round 6 and JaMarcus Russell went 1st overall. Food for thought.How do you determine how good a player is?
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i try to avoid making definitive leaps based on my opinion of someones talent. if a guy puts up good numbers in the nfl, then he is capable and talented enough for me to consider him in fantasy football.

fwiw, i think you are short on hillis' capabilities. he is faster than you think to the outside and has shown more proficiency bowling over defenders for extra yards than any other player in the nfl this year.

does foster have more talent? i dont know or care. hillis has enough talent to be a successful rb and this year proves it. remember also he did well in his shortlived feature role in denver. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillPe00.htm

is hillis in danger of rbbc? seems likely if montario hardesty recovers. but so is foster, as kubiak has a history it, or if another coach comes in and prefers "his guy." will the blocking scheme be less successful if kubiak leaves?

its easy in hindsight to say a guy didnt have talent, but plenty of ppl espoused slatons talent and how much of his decline is bc of nerve damage and "bulking up." felix jones was one of the most electric players i have ever seen and now he is a plodding marion barber clone. perspective, ability and situation change really fast in the nfl.

most ppl that watch lagarratte blount think he is agile and explosive and powerful but go deep says he is plodding. look at ryan mathews discussion. hell, going into this year and even 8 games in ppl were still deriding jamaal charles talent. last year mccoy was denigrated by most observers as lacking explosiveness and decisiveness, and i admit i fell into that line of thinking as well, but he looks amazing this year.

is chris johnson a worse rb this year? can you lose talent in your 3rd year? seems that way.

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I really value the discussion here and would like to get some advice for my dynasty team. I currently have Eli and will tryI to upgrade this offseason. Which QB would you rather have than Eli in dynasty, TD/scoring, and in which order

Romo

Cutler

Freeman

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Freeman top 5 is a major stretch. He has his good and bad games like all the other qbs but isn't very consistent when it comes to scoring. Benn getting hurt also doesn't help as he was starting to play well over the past few weeks and that's where I saw improvement with Freeman.

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Freeman top 5 is a major stretch. He has his good and bad games like all the other qbs but isn't very consistent when it comes to scoring. Benn getting hurt also doesn't help as he was starting to play well over the past few weeks and that's where I saw improvement with Freeman.

Agreed. It is a dangerous practice to project career trajectory based on age (i.e. - Player scoring x at 24 will be scoring x + at age 26). I see a lot of people doing that with Freeman. Just because a player is a good NFL QB for his age, deosn't mean he is going to keep taking major strides on a fantasy level. I wouldn't value Freeman much higher than what his 2010 stats warrant. He also seems to be getting "leadership" or "scrappy" points in most rankings. Not only do they not translate into fantasy points, they can be short-lived, ala Derek Anderson who was a scrappy leader at one point.
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Rather than argue for or against Freeman, I'll just say that if you value Freeman anywhere close to what you posted, you should be buying him. His price isn't nearly that IMO.My biggest issue with what you have is Rivers. I can't imagine anyone would trade him for Freeman, Bradford, Manning or Luck.

My main question was around Freeman. I have him as a huge ?, but he represents lots of potential long term value. Moreso perhaps than any QB younger than 30. I'm just trying to peg him somewhere in the mix to see what it might take value wise to get him (i.e. Rivers + X) or (Rodgers - X) type deal and see how I feel about that. The other guys I'm fairly comfortable with where I have them. Swapping Rivers for Freeman in that list probably seems the consensus of the responders here.I don't want to just hijack this into a Romo debate, but I feel pretty confident the next coach will not stat pad like Garrett. I just don't see long term upside.
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The Hillis and Foster situations are very similar. Both teams could have a new coaches by next season, and both teams have a 2nd round pick RB coming back from injury. However, both players had terrific years so both should begin the season as starters. It will come down to their performance, they will keep their jobs as long as they are producing, but i dont see either getting the workload they did this year.I think both of their value will be as high as it will ever get during the offseason, but both could be good players going forward, just not as good as this past season....IMO.

I honestly do not see any similarities between Foster and Hillis other than the fact that both came out of nowhere this year. In my opinion, Foster has much more talent than Hillis. Foster clearly passed the eye test for me and Hillis did not. In addition, Hillis broke down over the last month and that tells me he could be part of a RBBC next year. I don't see that happening with Foster.

The difference for me is Foster passes the eye test. Slaton never did for me. Davis was solid and who knows what would have became of him if not for injuries, but I personally did not consider him an elite talent. I think Foster is.

are you an nfl scout? college? high school? what are you credentials for having such a "keen" eye for identifying "elite" talent. seems that a team could use your services considering foster went undrafted.
I dont think you have to be a talent scout to judge talent, although im sure they are much better than we are at it. My unproffesional opinion of Foster differs from AB's however. Foster is a system RB with average NFL talent. Good size, breaks some tackles but lacks elusiveness and breakaway speed. The vision thing is just something people say about RB's who are in great systems.Hillis is every bit as good as Foster, and maybe better. Hillis will never get the respect he deserves, people will just say he doesnt pass "the eyeball test" but he is doing almost as much as Foster without the great supporting cast. Yes, he has a good oline, but look at the crap he has at QB and WR, the guy constantly sees 8 in the box, and Foster rarely does.
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all. - 1st rounder- prototypical size- extremely impressive mobility and instincts- excellent young talent around him- only 22- 60% completion, 7+ ypa- running statsWhat's not to like?
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all. - 1st rounder- prototypical size- extremely impressive mobility and instincts- excellent young talent around him- only 22- 60% completion, 7+ ypa- running statsWhat's not to like?
:mellow:
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Rather than argue for or against Freeman, I'll just say that if you value Freeman anywhere close to what you posted, you should be buying him. His price isn't nearly that IMO.My biggest issue with what you have is Rivers. I can't imagine anyone would trade him for Freeman, Bradford, Manning or Luck.

My main question was around Freeman. I have him as a huge ?, but he represents lots of potential long term value. Moreso perhaps than any QB younger than 30. I'm just trying to peg him somewhere in the mix to see what it might take value wise to get him (i.e. Rivers + X) or (Rodgers - X) type deal and see how I feel about that. The other guys I'm fairly comfortable with where I have them. Swapping Rivers for Freeman in that list probably seems the consensus of the responders here.I don't want to just hijack this into a Romo debate, but I feel pretty confident the next coach will not stat pad like Garrett. I just don't see long term upside.
Thinking about long-term potential includes a bunch of things besides the player himself, especially at QB. In order to believe he can be a top 5 QB, you'd have to believe some combination of...1. Morris/Olson will run an offensive style that will allow for huge numbers from the QB position OR new coaches will be brought in that will.2. The NFC South will allow for big offensive numbers on a regular basis.3. His weapons in Tampa will help him put up big numbers consistently.I do like the talent of the Freeman/Williams/Benn combo, but I question how high the upside is in that division with that offense.Basically, I view Freeman as much less of a question mark than you do. He's shown (IMO) that he is a solid starting QB with some young talent around him playing in a tough division for a semi-conservative offense. I would rank that similar to Big Ben. Its not top 5, but its worth owning.
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I don't think it's a dislike for Freeman but there are so many other qbs who are better and not much older. Why go with a player who is up and down game by game when you can have someone more consistent and puts up more points?

First I'm not sure how you can characterize him as up and down when he's had only one game below 10 points this season, which was week 3 against the Steelers. In fact he's been ridiculously consistent:
1	17.68	vs Browns2	19.42	at Panthers3	 7.86	vs Steelers4		 	Bye5	16.20	at Bengals6	12.96	vs Saints7	16.48	vs Rams8	17.32	at Cardinals9	16.16	at Falcons10   18.54	vs Panthers11   14.94	at 49ers12   13.18	at Ravens13   13.04	vs Falcons14   16.64	at Redskins15   16.94	vs Lions16   31.78	vs Seahawks
In dynasty you want to find guys that can be difference makers and he clearly has the tools to get there. Personally I'd pass on guys like Cutler, Schaub, and Ryan for Freeman. Those guys will float in the 6 to 12 range every year but I see very little chance of them being top 2 or 3, whereas I could see Freeman having a monster season. It's certainly subjective though.
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I don't think it's a dislike for Freeman but there are so many other qbs who are better and not much older. Why go with a player who is up and down game by game when you can have someone more consistent and puts up more points?

First I'm not sure how you can characterize him as up and down when he's had only one game below 10 points this season, which was week 3 against the Steelers. In fact he's been ridiculously consistent:
1	17.68	vs Browns2	19.42	at Panthers3	 7.86	vs Steelers4		 	Bye5	16.20	at Bengals6	12.96	vs Saints7	16.48	vs Rams8	17.32	at Cardinals9	16.16	at Falcons10   18.54	vs Panthers11   14.94	at 49ers12   13.18	at Ravens13   13.04	vs Falcons14   16.64	at Redskins15   16.94	vs Lions16   31.78	vs Seahawks
In dynasty you want to find guys that can be difference makers and he clearly has the tools to get there. Personally I'd pass on guys like Cutler, Schaub, and Ryan for Freeman. Those guys will float in the 6 to 12 range every year but I see very little chance of them being top 2 or 3, whereas I could see Freeman having a monster season. It's certainly subjective though.
Those numbers are too low for a starting qb in most leagues. That's what i meant by saying there are so many other better qbs. Improvement is always a possibility but dynasty isn't about taking chances. Stick with the guys who have proven to get you points week after week. Then again, it depends on the round you can draft him in. Anytime after the 7th or 8th round is probably worth the risk.
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Those numbers are too low for a starting qb in most leagues. That's what i meant by saying there are so many other better qbs. Improvement is always a possibility but dynasty isn't about taking chances. Stick with the guys who have proven to get you points week after week. Then again, it depends on the round you can draft him in. Anytime after the 7th or 8th round is probably worth the risk.

My dynasty method is the exact opposite of that. I'd trade Reggie Wayne for Vincent Jackson all day.
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all. - 1st rounder- prototypical size- extremely impressive mobility and instincts- excellent young talent around him- only 22- 60% completion, 7+ ypa- running statsWhat's not to like?
1. He didn't finish 7th.2. Using PPG is much more accurate.3. Matt Cassel scored more than him, with a slow start. 4. Matt Schaub scored more than him, playing injured, and throwing to an injured AJ, who also missed 2 games. 5. Eli Manning scored more than him. 6. Age is great, if the player is great. What good does it do to have a low end QB1 for 10 years? Granted, if Freeman ever reaches top 5 status, that is another thing. But a 5 years of top 5 production will do more to win you championships than 10 years of top 10. Don't get me wrong, he was a solid suprise this year. But top 5 should be reserved for the elite and Freeman has a ways to go to get there. Edited by Concept Coop
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all. - 1st rounder- prototypical size- extremely impressive mobility and instincts- excellent young talent around him- only 22- 60% completion, 7+ ypa- running statsWhat's not to like?
:bowtie:
He finished 7th in total points, 12th in average in my league.So in terms of fantasy finish, yes I see him regressing. Romo and Roethlisberger both have the pedigree and talent to easily rate higher than him. The fact that they missed time this season does not change the fact that to me they are better dynasty QB's. I would say the following QB's are clearly superior dynasty QB's to Freeman..RodgersBreesRiversManningBradyVickRomo Big BenI personally think Bradford falls right after that tier, and a lot of people would agree with that as well. Leaving Freeman at best at #10. Personally I would also have Ryan and Stafford above Freeman as well, although I understand there are a lot of people who are not comfortable with that, especially Stafford. Luck will also jump Freeman in my rankings the second he is drafted. In short I expect Freeman to continue to progress as a better NFL QB, but regress from his #7 finish to be more of an Eli Manning low QB1/high QB2 in the future.
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????

I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?

Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all.

- 1st rounder

- prototypical size

- extremely impressive mobility and instincts

- excellent young talent around him

- only 22

- 60% completion, 7+ ypa

- running stats

What's not to like?

1. He didn't finish 7th.

2. Using PPG is much more accurate.

3. Matt Cassel scored more than him, with a slow start.

4. Matt Schaub scored more than him, playing injured, and throwing to an injured AJ, who also missed 2 games.

5. Eli Manning scored more than him.

Don't get me wrong, he was a solid suprise this year. But top should be reserved for the elite and Freeman has a ways to go to get there.

He did finish 7th in my standard scoring league but I guess depending on decimal use, Schaub and Eli might inch ahead of him.

Cassel, Schaub, and Eli all have much more experience. They'll continue to finish right there in the 7-12 range. Freeman will likely stay in that range too but he may vault higher. That makes him much more attractive to me, but to each his own.

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I don't think it's a dislike for Freeman but there are so many other qbs who are better and not much older. Why go with a player who is up and down game by game when you can have someone more consistent and puts up more points?

freeman was quite consistent this year actually. didnt have many explosive games but was almost always around 17-20.
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The Freeman love here is out of control. Talking about him in the top 5????I can't see how anyone realistically has him higher than around #10.

He finished 7th at age 22. Do you see him regressing?Not sure I'd put him top 5 myself, but it's not outlandish at all. - 1st rounder- prototypical size- extremely impressive mobility and instincts- excellent young talent around him- only 22- 60% completion, 7+ ypa- running statsWhat's not to like?
1. He didn't finish 7th.2. Using PPG is much more accurate.3. Matt Cassel scored more than him, with a slow start. 4. Matt Schaub scored more than him, playing injured, and throwing to an injured AJ, who also missed 2 games. 5. Eli Manning scored more than him. Don't get me wrong, he was a solid suprise this year. But top should be reserved for the elite and Freeman has a ways to go to get there.
You not counting the rushing yards? He's 7th. There's 4 or 5 other QBs less than 10 points behind him, including Cassel, Schaub, and Eli. What's not to like: the Bucs passed a lot in RZ/GL opportunities and he still only ended up with 23 TDs. (ETA Other than Mike Williams) Benn is not a sure thing, Winslow is a very old 27, and there is nothing behind them. The 6 INTs could be an anomaly. The rushing yards might not be maintainable year-to-year.It's a lot easier for me to see this year as a high water mark for Freeman than Ryan. Turner breaks down a little more, they draft a guy like Blackmon or Floyd, and Ryan will put up even better stats. Edited by thriftyrocker
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