Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Lotta ifs there injury-wise, but a healthy Griffin and a healthy Garcon and a healthy F Davis is good enough IMO.'Just Win Baby said:
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Dynasty Rankings (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
- Start date
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Davis was franchised this year, wasn't a great fit when healthy, and now has the Achilles tear. Maybe the injury means he resigns cheap for a year or two or incentive-based, but it's not a lock he's back.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Forgot it was an achilles -- they probably do need to find another target then.
EBF
Footballguy
Wondering if all three Cardinals WRs might be good buys this offseason:Fitzgerald - I have a hard time believing he's washed up already. I wouldn't want him for youth-oriented teams, but for teams with more of a short-term complexion, he could be a pretty nice investment. It's likely that a lot of his owners have become frustrated. Roberts - Looked like a demon in the first half of the season before the QB situation disintegrated. One of those guys whose breakout season was lost to factors beyond his control. Put him on a new team and he might be a solid FF WR2-WR3. At just 25 with only one year left on his deal, we might see him elsewhere soon. Floyd - Not 100% sold on him, but he certainly ticks off a lot of the boxes. Tall and rangy with a top 15 draft pedigree. Might be a bit stiff in his routes, but overall looks like a good gamble from a value-per-cost standpoint.
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Andrew74
Footballguy
I was approached by the Fitz owner who wanted more youth. I was expecting him wanting a high level player, but he asked about Antonio Brown and Mark Ingram.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As much crap as Kevin Kolb takes, he wasn't playing all that poorly before he fell victim to that atrocious o-line in Arizona. A healthy Kolb or an even better option and I agree that the Cardinal WRs make good offseason targets. Hopefully they are able to build up their line a bit through the draft and FA though or it could be more of the same.
I get more low-ball offers for Fitz in the league I have him than in all the other leagues combined.
Trying to gauge Shane Vereen's value. I originally liked him much more than Ridley, but Ridley had a very good year. The Ridley owner has inquired about Vereen after his 3 TD performance, and I'm not quite sure what a fair offer would be. In terms of rookie picks, what do people think Vereen is worth? 1.04? 1.09? Early 2nd? I'm inclined to think he's worth a mid-1st, but maybe I'm overvaluing?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I certainly wouldn't give up the 1.04 for him. He is likely to take the Woodhead role, but how productive will he be in it? Woodhead had plenty of big games and plenty of the opposite. I think Ridley is safe in his role; it's what they drafted him to do, and not what they drafted Vereen to do. If you could land the 1.09, I personally would do it; I think it's fair value.
EBF
Footballguy
I've had him shopped to me in a couple leagues. I'm sure some people will be looking to buy low, but at the same time it's undeniable that his perceived value has taken a big hit since last season. I don't even bother trying to trade him anymore because I don't expect anyone to give up anything.
1.04 would be an easy sell. I think 1.09 is also a good deal for you. Ridley is young, and I also wouldn't discount the fact that Bolden is there as well -- in the case of injury to Ridley, I think he becomes more involved as well. His last game was encouraging, but lets not forget that he's been the least productive out of the four RBs they have this year. The best part about his performance is that it will likely make them feel more willing to let DW walk, which lets him get some 3rd down work for the PPR leagues.
Agree with what you're saying - my one hesitation is I think Vereen is a lot more talented than Woodhead, and could carve out a bigger role because he's (IMO) such a dynamic playmaker. He could end up being a Sproles type with more rushing attempts, though perhaps that's if everything goes perfectly, and Ridley doesn't look like he's going away anytime soon.
Just to play devil's advocate here -- I believe that Vereen isn't going to really come close to being as good as DW is in the Faulk/Woodhead role. While his YPC is great with this small sample size, I don't expect him to be able to replicate how DW has put up 10+ YPC on 100 career catches out of the backfield (which is an exceptional number).
EBF
Footballguy
Vereen has been around for a couple years and hasn't done much. I would gladly pawn him off for any top 15 pick. He only had 10+ carries twice all season and only had 7 this past weekend. If people are bullish on his stock then I think they're guilty of "what have you done for me lately" fever. Vereen has some value based on his youth and draft slot, but two weeks ago most people would've leaped at the chance to move him for decent value.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
He's Bigger, I wouldn't say he's more talented; he's not as fast and not as much of a mismatch out of the backfield. There really is only one Darren Sproles in the NFL right now. No other team is supporting a 3rd down/COP/specialist back, fantasy wise, like NO is. It could happen, but I wouldn't bet much on it. Ridley is going to get his touches and NE likes to keep some balance, so where are points going to come from to feed Vereen?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the high-water mark in Vereen's career and today's buyers end up
Demps is more like Faulk/Woodhead and if Bolden's healthy and has his head on straight I think he's a better all-purpose back than Vereen. It's worth remembering that Bolden had probably supplanted Vereen before he got hurt (Vereen had two carries through Week 6).
Demps is more like Faulk/Woodhead and if Bolden's healthy and has his head on straight I think he's a better all-purpose back than Vereen. It's worth remembering that Bolden had probably supplanted Vereen before he got hurt (Vereen had two carries through Week 6).
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
True of false: Russell Wilson is a much better QB than Matt Ryan was as a rookie. He also adds points on the ground that Ryan does not. If the answer is true - I think it is - where should they be ranked in relation to the other?ETA:If we ignored draft position and pre-draft hype, we'd have little reason to take Luck over Wilson, even. For the record, I am not making a claim. Rather trying to answer some questions to challenge my own logic and rankings.
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Incomplete comparison for me. Much of Ryan's value is tied to his receiving talent. If I knew that Seattle would make the effort (and more importantly, succeed) in getting strong WR talent on the roster, I'd have Wilson much higher (and I already have him around QB9-10; Ryan at 7).
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
That makes sense. But you have to think they'll do whatever they can to find guys that can catch a football.'Just Win Baby said:
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Vereen hurt his foot in the last preseason game and couldn't practice for a few weeks. That's when Bolden passed him. Vereen has not stayed healthy and that is the biggest knock on his career so far, more than any perceived talent difference with other NE RB.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Would you consider that more important than rushing numbers?
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You don't know that, it's just how it turned out after Ridley received an opportunity once Vereen fell behind due to injuries. I'm not saying that Vereen will push Ridley aside next season, but he surely has a chance to expand Woodhead's role into something more than it was under Woodhead. He also has a chance to take over the feature back role if he proves to be more productive than Ridley. Ridely is a good back and he is capable of keeping the same role next season, but Belichick isn't a coach that hands players jobs out of loyalty so he'll need to continue to earn it over Vereen.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yeah... that's why I said probably. Vereen was healthy again and Bolden stayed on the field. I also like Bolden's game a lot more than Vereen's. So I could be biased on this one.
Yes/No? I think its very important because I believe personnel will dictate their play-calling. Focusing on bringing in receiving talent will have them adjust upward the number of pass attempts he has, which was limiting his ceiling last year. While his rushing is a nice bonus, I don't view it as large of a component of his game as I would Cam, RG3, and Kaepernick -- seems like he has more of his rushing yards via scrambling, vs. by-design.I'd also put out a minor note that I don't think that he will maintain quite as high of a passing TD%, and he'll need to get more pass attempts to be able to break 25-30 TDs/year.
EBF
Footballguy
I'd say Wilson had a better rookie year than Ryan. They both benefited by not being asked to throw the ball a lot (just like Roethlisberger and RG3), but Wilson really stepped it up a notch in the second half of the season. He has been lights out for about the last 10-12 weeks. I think he had a better year than Luck, but their usage was so vastly different that I don't know how useful it is to compare them. I feel good enough about Wilson to rate him as a top 5-6 dynasty QB. His rookie year was so exceptional that a Ryan/Roethlisberger type of career almost looks like the worst case scenario.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Based on the information we have, that is my conclusion. I don't think they drafted Vereen and Ridley (Same draft, 1 round later) to play the same role. Just as they didn't draft Hernandez to be Gronk's backup. Just as they haven't used them in the same role, often, this year.
It is a pretty safe assumption that when you draft one RB that excels between the tackles but is lacking in the passing game; and another RB that excels as a pass catching back, but is limited between the tackles.
munchkin
Footballguy
Vereen was likely taken in the 1.09 range when he came out of Cal. I love Woodhead as much as any Patriots' fan and hope the team resigns him. The Patriots are a wildcard. Vereen has shown flashes losing his opportunities to Woodhead when he had the fumble, along with Ridley, in the 49ers game. Had Woodhead not been injured this past weekend who knows whne he would have seen the field. If he gets significant touches against a hard hitting Ravens team without putting the ball on the ground his role will continue to grow. His catch down the left sidelines against Rudd was a thing of beauty (as was the pass).Ridley, Vereen and Woodhead's roles will be further defined by their playoff performances. The Pats are very much a what have you done for me lately team.Who do you get at 1.04 this year? I wouldn't trade Vereen without knowing more about his role on the team; especially in PPR. Given his skill level and playing on a pass oriented team he has solid upside potential.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
In my opinion, usage will be dictated largely by talent. If Wilson is the real deal - I think he is - it is very likely that his usage increases greatly. He will no longer be a rookie QB that needs to be protected. The weapons argument - I get it. I appreciate it and buy into it some. But it is fluid; Seattle will get better weapons and Atlanta will have to replace Gonzo and eventually Roddy.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's true and going forward I have Wilson higher than Ryan. Still prefer Luck though. Luck will be a super star. Wilson is a star with super star potential, different tiers imho. I'm slotting Wilson and Kaep right between the super star tier and above Cam, Ryan, Romo, and Stafford.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
During the rankings that I just did a over the last couple weeks, I "threw" wilson in the back of tier 2. Well behind Luck. Behind Ryan. Behind Brady. Etc. I think his rookie season is overlooked some, from a dynasty standpoint, due to what RG3, Newton, and Luck have done recently. I'm guilty of it. Potentially the best rookie season ever (playoffs, great playoff game, TD/Int ratio) and he'll add 4 pts/game on the ground. If he was a first round draft pick with even the hype of Sam Bradford, he'd be right next to Luck/Newton/RG3.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Vereen was drafted a round ahead of Ridley - maybe they were thinking he could be the feature back? Like I said, we don't really know.
EBF
Footballguy
I just don't see it, personally. I don't generally advocate giving up on rookies after two years, but it's fair to say that he hasn't made a very big impact for the Pats thus far. He might be a good pass catcher, but he also appears to be a really average runner. I'd rather take my chances on a new prospect in hope of catching lightning in a bottle. Another year of zilch production from Vereen and he will be impossible to move in most leagues. Nevermind the fact that I never thought he was that good out of Cal in the first place. I think he was overrated and that Ridley is the better overall back. I don't think Vereen is a starting caliber NFL talent and he doesn't have the luxury of playing for a team with no other options, so for me the choice is easy.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think Vereen is limited between the tackles nor do I think Ridley is lacking in the passing game. Ridley has done more than enough to keep the role he has. I was only saying that we don't know what the Patriots were thinking when they drafte the pair. The Patriots have reinvented their offense numerous times under Belichick.
Maybe they simply took BPA like every team should be doing. Clearly they also saw the athleticism of Vereen and thought they could use him in a versatile role like Hernandez. That Vereen touchdown last game where he split out wide and juked the CB on a double move was pretty sweet.
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doowain
Footballguy
While I wouldn't rank Wilson quite that high, I was overly impressed with him as well. His height is not an issue. His mobility buys him time and allows him to find passing lanes that eliminate any negative his height introduces. If anyone points at it as a reason for not buying into him as a franchise QB, they certainly haven't watched him play. I'd be really interested in any stats on batted balls at the line vs. him. I don't remember seeing any at all this year.He throws a beautiful ball with plenty of zip. And most importantly, he simply does not get rattled. The way he moved the Seahawks down the field for the go-ahead score IN A PLAYOFF GAME against a top seeded Atlanta team, on the road no less, was a thing of beauty. It's something you are impressed with from a veteran. For a rookie to do it? Absolutely phenomenal. I came away with a ton of respect for both Wilson and Pete Carroll.
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Just from watching them both play in college it was pretty clear what their respective strengths were. In addition, people much smarter than you and I were in agreements on their strengths and weaknesses. Look up any write-up on these guys pre-draft, and it will say the same thing.
I'd imagine that, even if they were thinking he could be a feature back, it is fairly irrelevant right now after he's been outplayed by every single RB on the team.I also doubt that they "find their feature back" then decide to take a RB one-round later that compliments the weakness of the 'feature back'.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
It was a linebacker.
Gotcha. Still was pretty sweet. That's not a play Ridley is able to make.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
It was a nice play and perfect throw. Pretty to watch.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
To further your point - most QBs are generally at least a few inches shorter than a D-lineman and when you consider that most balls get batted with the D-linemen extending their arms into the air - all QBs need to throw around the defense by finding passing lanes. Its not like Wilson is at a disadvantage because he can't throw over the defensive linemen like all other QBs can.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Ok.Vereen:'jonboltz said:
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-shane-vereen
http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/vereen.html
http://www.newerascouting.com/2011/04/24/shane-vereen-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
http://www.kffl.com/a.php/127436/
Ridley:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=2&t=283290&qpid=15227908
I actually couldn't find a ton of stuff on Ridley (and I did see one that said he would not be used as a pass catcher in the NFL) because I do remember he wasn't expected to be an early pick.I'm by no means saying that either back is better suited to step into the other's role and as I said, I don't expect Ridley to lose his role. I thought Vereen was the better back coming into the league and I surely wouldn't be shocked if he does surpass Ridley given Belichick's hot hand approach though. People that pretend to know what Belichick is thinking or what he'll do from week to week, no less from season to season are fooling themselves.
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Donsmith753
Footballguy
Started playing about with my rankings today, these are by no means completeETA. I'm basing these off my main league which is .5ppr for all positions
1 Aaron Rodgers - GB (10) - Age 292 Andrew Luck - IND (4) - Age 233 Cam Newton - CAR (6) - Age 234 Robert Griffin - WAS (10) - Age 225 Drew Brees - NO (6) - Age 346 Colin Kaepernick - SF (9) - Age 257 Russell Wilson - SEA (11) - Age 248 Tom Brady - NE (9) - Age 359 Matthew Stafford - DET (5) - Age 2410 Matt Ryan - ATL (7) - Age 2711 Joe Flacco - BAL (8) - Age 2812 Eli Manning - NYG (11) - Age 3213 Ryan Tannehill - MIA (7) - Age 2414 Ben Roethlisberger - PIT (4) - Age 3015 Tony Romo - DAL (5) - Age 3216 Peyton Manning - DEN (7) - Age 3617 Andy Dalton - CIN (8) - Age 2518 Sam Bradford - STL (9) - Age 2519 Jay Cutler - CHI (6) - Age 2920 Christian Ponder - MIN (11) - Age 2421 Philip Rivers - SD (7) - Age 3122 Jake Locker - TEN (11) - Age 2423 Matt Schaub - HOU (8) - Age 3124 Nick Foles - PHI (7) - Age 2325 Michael Vick - PHI (7) - Age 3226 Brandon Weeden - CLE (10) - Age 2927 Blaine Gabbert - JAX (6) - Age 2328 Ryan Mallett - NE (9) - Age 2429 Kirk Cousins - WAS (10) - Age 2430 Alex Smith - SF (9) - Age 2831 Carson Palmer - OAK (5) - Age 3332 Mark Sanchez - NYJ (9) - Age 26
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Donsmith753
Footballguy
RB
Missed Forte. I'd slot him at 12ish1 Trent Richardson - CLE (10) - Age 212 Ray Rice - BAL (8) - Age 253 LeSean McCoy - PHI (7) - Age 244 Doug Martin - TB (5) - Age 245 Jamaal Charles - KC (7) - Age 266 C.J. Spiller - BUF (8) - Age 257 Adrian L. Peterson - MIN (11) - Age 278 Arian Foster - HOU (8) - Age 269 Alfred Morris - WAS (10) - Age 2410 Marshawn Lynch - SEA (11) - Age 2611 Ryan Mathews - SD (7) - Age 2512 Darren McFadden - OAK (5) - Age 2513 DeMarco Murray - DAL (5) - Age 2414 David Wilson - NYG (11) - Age 2115 Stevan Ridley - NE (9) - Age 2316 Jonathan Stewart - CAR (6) - Age 2517 Maurice Jones-Drew - JAX (6) - Age 2718 Chris Johnson - TEN (11) - Age 2719 Darren Sproles - NO (6) - Age 2920 Mark Ingram - NO (6) - Age 2321 Reggie Bush - MIA (7) - Age 2722 Rashard Mendenhall - PIT (4) - Age 2523 Bernard Pierce - BAL (8) - Age 2124 Ben Tate - HOU (8) - Age 2425 Ronnie Hillman - DEN (7) - Age 2126 Ryan Williams - ARI (10) - Age 2227 Daryl Richardson - STL (9) - Age 2228 Mikel Leshoure - DET (5) - Age 2229 Ahmad Bradshaw - NYG (11) - Age 2630 Bilal Powell - NYJ (9) - Age 2431 Robert Turbin - SEA (11) - Age 2332 Frank Gore - SF (9) - Age 2933 Steven Jackson - STL (9) - Age 2934 Shane Vereen - NE (9) - Age 2335 Jacquizz Rodgers - ATL (7) - Age 2236 Fred Jackson - BUF (8) - Age 3137 Knowshon Moreno - DEN (7) - Age 2538 Chris Wells - ARI (10) - Age 2439 BenJarvus Green-Ellis - CIN (8) - Age 2740 Toby Gerhart - MIN (11) - Age 2541 Chris Ivory - NO (6) - Age 2442 Willis McGahee - DEN (7) - Age 31
Donsmith753
Footballguy
WR
1 A.J. Green - CIN (8) - Age 242 Calvin Johnson - DET (5) - Age 273 Dez Bryant - DAL (5) - Age 244 Percy Harvin - MIN (11) - Age 245 Demaryius Thomas - DEN (7) - Age 256 Julio Jones - ATL (7) - Age 237 Hakeem Nicks - NYG (11) - Age 258 Randall Cobb - GB (10) - Age 229 Brandon Marshall - CHI (6) - Age 2810 Victor Cruz - NYG (11) - Age 2611 Michael Crabtree - SF (9) - Age 2512 Larry Fitzgerald - ARI (10) - Age 2913 Mike Wallace - PIT (4) - Age 2614 Pierre Garcon - WAS (10) - Age 2615 Jordy Nelson - GB (10) - Age 2716 Jeremy Maclin - PHI (7) - Age 2417 Josh Gordon - CLE (10) - Age 2118 Justin Blackmon - JAX (6) - Age 2319 Andre Johnson - HOU (8) - Age 3120 Wes Welker - NE (9) - Age 3121 Roddy White - ATL (7) - Age 3122 Kenny Britt - TEN (11) - Age 2423 Vincent Jackson - TB (5) - Age 3024 Eric Decker - DEN (7) - Age 2525 Torrey Smith - BAL (8) - Age 2326 Vincent Jackson - TB (5) - Age 3027 Antonio Brown - PIT (4) - Age 2428 Greg Jennings - GB (10) - Age 2929 Miles Austin - DAL (5) - Age 2830 Kendall Wright - TEN (11) - Age 2331 Denarius Moore - OAK (5) - Age 2432 Steve Johnson - BUF (8) - Age 2633 Danario Alexander - SD (7) - Age 2434 Michael Floyd - ARI (10) - Age 2335 Sidney Rice - SEA (11) - Age 2636 Rueben Randle - NYG (11) - Age 21
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Like a lot of your rankings, but this one really stood out to me as overvalued. I wouldn't even put Maclin in the top 36. Really, really dislike him. I could see him not even starting in the NFL in a year or two.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
What can I say, I like him. Best WR on his team, finished the year strong (yes against poor d's) and still only 24.Two players I realised I missed. Cecil Shorts and Dwayne BoweWould have Shorts around the top end of the Decker tier and Bowe at the bottom end
Lamar Miller, Lamichael James, Deangelo. Just my opinion on a few I'd have on there.
gandalas
Footballguy
Also, no Colston or Bowe? I know they are older, but still should both have a few good seasons left at least. I suppose it depends on where Bowe ends up as well.
