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UFC wagering: breaking news - judging is so terrible it got me to return here to update this thread title (6 Viewers)

moleculo said:
I have a friend who is on the cusp of making it into the UFC as a bantamweight. Last month he submitted an 11-2 Bellator fighter (and an ATT black belt) , and he has spent weeks training at Alpha Male with Faber and Mendes and all of those guys. Here's what he said:

"she would have a shot at grabbing an arm bar maybe but at the end of the day she loses.... There are a couple of incomplete fighters that are just strikers she might be able to throw and catch. on the ground against me - she'd have to catch me sleeping."

That's what it boils down to - could she get her opponent on the ground without taking any serious shots, and then is her jits superior. I think her jits is better than at least a couple of the lower ranked fighters, so she would have a shot.

I'm not saying she is better than any of these guys or that it's clear cut - in all likelyhood she loses but IMO she's still got a shot.
Click to expand...
So she'd have a shot to maybe beat a BW that was an incomplete fighter. Which I totally get, I'd give Ronda a shot against a promotional newcomer who didn't have much more than striking. That's a far cry from "50% of the current UFC BW roster".

 
Cliff Clavin said:
lod01 said:
moleculo said:
I'd also like to point out that when I made the claim she can be competitive with lower level UFC male bantamweights, it came with the caveat "if she can avoid a boxing match"... that is, if she can get the fight to the ground without inflicting any serious damage. When you are on the ground, knock-out power is gone. it's a matter of her being able to not get beaten into a pulp in ground & pound (if she were on bottom), technique helps a lot there.

Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.

I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
Click to expand...
Definitely a lot closer than these guys realize. The fact that Gracie beat guys way stronger than he is, is proof. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if you get locked in an arm bar, the pressure on your elbow will make you tap out. Sure she could get KO'ed by a punch before that happens but watching Gracie dispose of guys more than twice his size and strength means that with technique, she could also...if she can take a punch.I doubt she would win a brawl, she could only win via tap out. All it takes is one mistake.
Click to expand...
Gracie was fighting guys who had no idea what BJJ was. Big difference between that and Rousey fighting guys that all have hundreds to thousands of hours training it and have a physical advantage over her.

Maia is an elite BJJ fighter who can't submit most of the guys he fights. Why do we assume Rousey would be able to when she isn't on Maia's level and at a physical disadvantage?

I'd give Rousey a better chance vs Mayweather than against almost any UFC fighter.
Click to expand...
I'm no where near the expert on fighters. I can't name anyone but the top guys, and had to look Maia up, so i'm speaking from a point of ignorance here.

I can tell you that different folks have different styles and game plans. Maia may be the kind of guy who looks to maintain position and win by decision - not take a lot of risks, keep everything safe. There is a place for that in competition BJJ - after all, it is a sport and has a scoring system, not all that different from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling. Maias brand of jiu jitsu has earned him a 19-6 professional record with a hell of a lot of unanimous decisions, so i'm not one to criticize.

Rousey, on the other hand, attacks submissions agressively. it's what works for her.

point is - just because fighter A is really good at jiu-jitsu and doesn't get a lot of submissions doesn't mean fighter B wouldn't.

 
SacramentoBob said:
moleculo said:
I have a friend who is on the cusp of making it into the UFC as a bantamweight. Last month he submitted an 11-2 Bellator fighter (and an ATT black belt) , and he has spent weeks training at Alpha Male with Faber and Mendes and all of those guys. Here's what he said:

"she would have a shot at grabbing an arm bar maybe but at the end of the day she loses.... There are a couple of incomplete fighters that are just strikers she might be able to throw and catch. on the ground against me - she'd have to catch me sleeping."

That's what it boils down to - could she get her opponent on the ground without taking any serious shots, and then is her jits superior. I think her jits is better than at least a couple of the lower ranked fighters, so she would have a shot.

I'm not saying she is better than any of these guys or that it's clear cut - in all likelyhood she loses but IMO she's still got a shot.
Click to expand...
So she'd have a shot to maybe beat a BW that was an incomplete fighter. Which I totally get, I'd give Ronda a shot against a promotional newcomer who didn't have much more than striking. That's a far cry from "50% of the current UFC BW roster".
Click to expand...
it's also a far cry from "There isn't a single male UFC fighter that wouldn't put her into a hospital." or "She's a ####### woman! Against a UFC male, her own weight? She'd be slaughtered!! She would be overpowered and hurt quickly."

 
moleculo said:
Cliff Clavin said:
lod01 said:
moleculo said:
I'd also like to point out that when I made the claim she can be competitive with lower level UFC male bantamweights, it came with the caveat "if she can avoid a boxing match"... that is, if she can get the fight to the ground without inflicting any serious damage. When you are on the ground, knock-out power is gone. it's a matter of her being able to not get beaten into a pulp in ground & pound (if she were on bottom), technique helps a lot there.

Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.

I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
Click to expand...
Definitely a lot closer than these guys realize. The fact that Gracie beat guys way stronger than he is, is proof. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if you get locked in an arm bar, the pressure on your elbow will make you tap out. Sure she could get KO'ed by a punch before that happens but watching Gracie dispose of guys more than twice his size and strength means that with technique, she could also...if she can take a punch.I doubt she would win a brawl, she could only win via tap out. All it takes is one mistake.
Click to expand...
Gracie was fighting guys who had no idea what BJJ was. Big difference between that and Rousey fighting guys that all have hundreds to thousands of hours training it and have a physical advantage over her.

Maia is an elite BJJ fighter who can't submit most of the guys he fights. Why do we assume Rousey would be able to when she isn't on Maia's level and at a physical disadvantage?

I'd give Rousey a better chance vs Mayweather than against almost any UFC fighter.
Click to expand...
I'm no where near the expert on fighters. I can't name anyone but the top guys, and had to look Maia up, so i'm speaking from a point of ignorance here. I can tell you that different folks have different styles and game plans. Maia may be the kind of guy who looks to maintain position and win by decision - not take a lot of risks, keep everything safe. There is a place for that in competition BJJ - after all, it is a sport and has a scoring system, not all that different from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling. Maias brand of jiu jitsu has earned him a 19-6 professional record with a hell of a lot of unanimous decisions, so i'm not one to criticize.

Rousey, on the other hand, attacks submissions agressively. it's what works for her.

point is - just because fighter A is really good at jiu-jitsu and doesn't get a lot of submissions doesn't mean fighter B wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Saying Maia is really good at jiu-Jitsu is an understatement. Check his list of accomplishments: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia

He doesn't get submissions because he is fighting elite fighters who know how to defend submissions. Put Maia back in the early UFC years and people would talk about him like they do Royce. Maia is fighting wrestling beasts like Munoz and Weidman That are bigger, stronger and know how to defend a sub technically or just power out of it; something Rousey doesn't deal with.

Rousey can attack aggressively because she has little to worry about. Her competition is clearly a level below her technique wise and she likely has a strength advantage as well. They aren't going to reverse her. They aren't going to punish her with punches if she ends up on her back.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
moleculo said:
Cliff Clavin said:
lod01 said:
moleculo said:
I'd also like to point out that when I made the claim she can be competitive with lower level UFC male bantamweights, it came with the caveat "if she can avoid a boxing match"... that is, if she can get the fight to the ground without inflicting any serious damage. When you are on the ground, knock-out power is gone. it's a matter of her being able to not get beaten into a pulp in ground & pound (if she were on bottom), technique helps a lot there.

Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.

I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
Click to expand...
Definitely a lot closer than these guys realize. The fact that Gracie beat guys way stronger than he is, is proof. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if you get locked in an arm bar, the pressure on your elbow will make you tap out. Sure she could get KO'ed by a punch before that happens but watching Gracie dispose of guys more than twice his size and strength means that with technique, she could also...if she can take a punch.I doubt she would win a brawl, she could only win via tap out. All it takes is one mistake.
Click to expand...
Gracie was fighting guys who had no idea what BJJ was. Big difference between that and Rousey fighting guys that all have hundreds to thousands of hours training it and have a physical advantage over her.

Maia is an elite BJJ fighter who can't submit most of the guys he fights. Why do we assume Rousey would be able to when she isn't on Maia's level and at a physical disadvantage?

I'd give Rousey a better chance vs Mayweather than against almost any UFC fighter.
Click to expand...
I'm no where near the expert on fighters. I can't name anyone but the top guys, and had to look Maia up, so i'm speaking from a point of ignorance here. I can tell you that different folks have different styles and game plans. Maia may be the kind of guy who looks to maintain position and win by decision - not take a lot of risks, keep everything safe. There is a place for that in competition BJJ - after all, it is a sport and has a scoring system, not all that different from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling. Maias brand of jiu jitsu has earned him a 19-6 professional record with a hell of a lot of unanimous decisions, so i'm not one to criticize.

Rousey, on the other hand, attacks submissions agressively. it's what works for her.

point is - just because fighter A is really good at jiu-jitsu and doesn't get a lot of submissions doesn't mean fighter B wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Saying Maia is really good at jiu-Jitsu is an understatement. Check his list of accomplishments: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia

He doesn't get submissions because he is fighting elite fighters who know how to defend submissions. Put Maia back in the early UFC years and people would talk about him like they do Royce. Maia is fighting wrestling beasts like Munoz and Weidman That are bigger, stronger and know how to defend a sub technically or just power out of it; something Rousey doesn't deal with.

Rousey can attack aggressively because she has little to worry about. Her competition is clearly a level below her technique wise and she likely has a strength advantage as well. They aren't going to reverse her. They aren't going to punish her with punches if she ends up on her back.
Click to expand...
does Maia attempt a bunch of submissions that guys fight out of, or does he play the position game?

When Maia was a grappler, did he win primarily by points or submission?

 
I've always considered Maia to be pretty aggressive going for subs, especially after he dropped down to WW. Despite the decision win, he was very aggressive going for it against Fitch (an elite grappler). In his early years, all of his wins were by sub.

 
moleculo said:
Cliff Clavin said:
moleculo said:
Cliff Clavin said:
lod01 said:
moleculo said:
I'd also like to point out that when I made the claim she can be competitive with lower level UFC male bantamweights, it came with the caveat "if she can avoid a boxing match"... that is, if she can get the fight to the ground without inflicting any serious damage. When you are on the ground, knock-out power is gone. it's a matter of her being able to not get beaten into a pulp in ground & pound (if she were on bottom), technique helps a lot there.

Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.

I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
Click to expand...
Definitely a lot closer than these guys realize. The fact that Gracie beat guys way stronger than he is, is proof. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if you get locked in an arm bar, the pressure on your elbow will make you tap out. Sure she could get KO'ed by a punch before that happens but watching Gracie dispose of guys more than twice his size and strength means that with technique, she could also...if she can take a punch.I doubt she would win a brawl, she could only win via tap out. All it takes is one mistake.
Click to expand...
Gracie was fighting guys who had no idea what BJJ was. Big difference between that and Rousey fighting guys that all have hundreds to thousands of hours training it and have a physical advantage over her.

Maia is an elite BJJ fighter who can't submit most of the guys he fights. Why do we assume Rousey would be able to when she isn't on Maia's level and at a physical disadvantage?

I'd give Rousey a better chance vs Mayweather than against almost any UFC fighter.
Click to expand...
I'm no where near the expert on fighters. I can't name anyone but the top guys, and had to look Maia up, so i'm speaking from a point of ignorance here. I can tell you that different folks have different styles and game plans. Maia may be the kind of guy who looks to maintain position and win by decision - not take a lot of risks, keep everything safe. There is a place for that in competition BJJ - after all, it is a sport and has a scoring system, not all that different from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling. Maias brand of jiu jitsu has earned him a 19-6 professional record with a hell of a lot of unanimous decisions, so i'm not one to criticize.

Rousey, on the other hand, attacks submissions agressively. it's what works for her.

point is - just because fighter A is really good at jiu-jitsu and doesn't get a lot of submissions doesn't mean fighter B wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Saying Maia is really good at jiu-Jitsu is an understatement. Check his list of accomplishments: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia

He doesn't get submissions because he is fighting elite fighters who know how to defend submissions. Put Maia back in the early UFC years and people would talk about him like they do Royce. Maia is fighting wrestling beasts like Munoz and Weidman That are bigger, stronger and know how to defend a sub technically or just power out of it; something Rousey doesn't deal with.

Rousey can attack aggressively because she has little to worry about. Her competition is clearly a level below her technique wise and she likely has a strength advantage as well. They aren't going to reverse her. They aren't going to punish her with punches if she ends up on her back.
Click to expand...
does Maia attempt a bunch of submissions that guys fight out of, or does he play the position game?When Maia was a grappler, did he win primarily by points or submission?
Click to expand...
I can't speak to his grappling wins.

In the UFC, he is typically aggressive (6 subs would likely be top 5 in modern UFC). He had a stretch where he thought he could box that led to a lot of decisions.

 
moleculo said:
Possum said:
Abrantes said:
I told myself I wouldn't engage any further after my :lmao: a few posts back, and unfortunately jumped in again, but I'm waving the white flag, 'cause honestly, I find the whole "Ronda vs. men" discussion pretty silly. Carry on.
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:goodposting:

100% agreed, it's a silly topic. I told myself I would keep quiet about it too but got sucked back in like a dummy :coffee:
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it is silly because it will never happen - and for for any "Dana doesn't want it" or UFC reasons, it's because no state would sanction such a fight.

No reason we can't wildly speculate and argue though, it's not like we are solving world hunger in here anyways.
Click to expand...
yeah, I hear you, and I'm a big fan of wild speculation and arguing so don't mind me. I'm just gonna sit this one out and wait for other discussions that are more up my alley (for example: would Nick Diaz be unbeatable if the Nevada athletic commission suddenly decided to allow nunchucks in the cage? How many Team Alpha Male members would it take to subdue a fully armored prime Fedor in a Roman gladiatorial arena? etc.)

 
Possum said:
moleculo said:
Possum said:
Abrantes said:
I told myself I wouldn't engage any further after my :lmao: a few posts back, and unfortunately jumped in again, but I'm waving the white flag, 'cause honestly, I find the whole "Ronda vs. men" discussion pretty silly. Carry on.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

100% agreed, it's a silly topic. I told myself I would keep quiet about it too but got sucked back in like a dummy :coffee:
Click to expand...
it is silly because it will never happen - and for for any "Dana doesn't want it" or UFC reasons, it's because no state would sanction such a fight.

No reason we can't wildly speculate and argue though, it's not like we are solving world hunger in here anyways.
Click to expand...
yeah, I hear you, and I'm a big fan of wild speculation and arguing so don't mind me. I'm just gonna sit this one out and wait for other discussions that are more up my alley (for example: would Nick Diaz be unbeatable if the Nevada athletic commission suddenly decided to allow nunchucks in the cage? How many Team Alpha Male members would it take to subdue a fully armored prime Fedor in a Roman gladiatorial arena? etc.)
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BustedKnuckles said:
Cliff Clavin said:
BustedKnuckles said:
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?
Click to expand...
Yep. And if Jon Jones gave her 5 free punches, she knocks him out. What's your point?
Click to expand...
seems a guy could just muscle his way out of it...i mean she just s little girl for chrissakes
Click to expand...
That's the point a lot of these guys are missing with this outdated macho bull#### of how a woman could never even compete with a man. When you are talking about the elite of the elite - which Rousey clearly is, you can throw out "conventional wisdown" that men are just physically superior than women in all facets of sport.

If Rousey was a sprawl and brawler that was just knocking #####es out, I would tend to agree with that crowd a little bit more. But she's not. She's a world class grappler with a deadly combination of impeccable technique, timing and power. The execution of her throws happens so rapidly that there is no "muscling out" of it (ditto for arm bars.) Couple that with the size advantage she would have over the flyweight, and I think she could absolutely hold her own against a few of them. The assumption that just because the opposing fighter is a man, and she is a woman - that all he has to do is land 1 punch to put her lights out is just a dated argument by folks who have probably never gotten punched in the face, much less done so in the form of a strategized combat sport.

 
sheerterror said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Cliff Clavin said:
BustedKnuckles said:
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?
Click to expand...
Yep. And if Jon Jones gave her 5 free punches, she knocks him out. What's your point?
Click to expand...
seems a guy could just muscle his way out of it...i mean she just s little girl for chrissakes
Click to expand...
That's the point a lot of these guys are missing with this outdated macho bull#### of how a woman could never even compete with a man. When you are talking about the elite of the elite - which Rousey clearly is, you can throw out "conventional wisdown" that men are just physically superior than women in all facets of sport.

If Rousey was a sprawl and brawler that was just knocking #####es out, I would tend to agree with that crowd a little bit more. But she's not. She's a world class grappler with a deadly combination of impeccable technique, timing and power. The execution of her throws happens so rapidly that there is no "muscling out" of it (ditto for arm bars.) Couple that with the size advantage she would have over the flyweight, and I think she could absolutely hold her own against a few of them. The assumption that just because the opposing fighter is a man, and she is a woman - that all he has to do is land 1 punch to put her lights out is just a dated argument by folks who have probably never gotten punched in the face, much less done so in the form of a strategized combat sport.
Click to expand...
This is really getting silly. I've trained in Muay Thai for three years at the MMA Labs in Glendale AZ. I've been punched, kicked, choked, elbowed, and kneed by some pretty darn good fighters. I've had my nose bloodied, my tooth loosened, my eye blackened, and my ribs bruised pretty badly. Others here who are advocating that she wouldn't have a chance against a male fighter have also trained in some form of martial arts.

We all agree she is an amazing fighter. She has outstanding judo and submission skills. But no matter how much you say it and want to believe the contrary, a decently-trained male fighter would destroy her. The arguments have all been made, so I'm not going to rehash them. But please, don't use the, "You've never fought so you don't know" argument. Any time you are in Phoenix and want to come by the Labs, let me know. I'll get you a free pass to our sparring class.

 
kutta said:
sheerterror said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Cliff Clavin said:
BustedKnuckles said:
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?
Click to expand...
Yep. And if Jon Jones gave her 5 free punches, she knocks him out. What's your point?
Click to expand...
seems a guy could just muscle his way out of it...i mean she just s little girl for chrissakes
Click to expand...
That's the point a lot of these guys are missing with this outdated macho bull#### of how a woman could never even compete with a man. When you are talking about the elite of the elite - which Rousey clearly is, you can throw out "conventional wisdown" that men are just physically superior than women in all facets of sport.

If Rousey was a sprawl and brawler that was just knocking #####es out, I would tend to agree with that crowd a little bit more. But she's not. She's a world class grappler with a deadly combination of impeccable technique, timing and power. The execution of her throws happens so rapidly that there is no "muscling out" of it (ditto for arm bars.) Couple that with the size advantage she would have over the flyweight, and I think she could absolutely hold her own against a few of them. The assumption that just because the opposing fighter is a man, and she is a woman - that all he has to do is land 1 punch to put her lights out is just a dated argument by folks who have probably never gotten punched in the face, much less done so in the form of a strategized combat sport.
Click to expand...
This is really getting silly. I've trained in Muay Thai for three years at the MMA Labs in Glendale AZ. I've been punched, kicked, choked, elbowed, and kneed by some pretty darn good fighters. I've had my nose bloodied, my tooth loosened, my eye blackened, and my ribs bruised pretty badly. Others here who are advocating that she wouldn't have a chance against a male fighter have also trained in some form of martial arts.

We all agree she is an amazing fighter. She has outstanding judo and submission skills. But no matter how much you say it and want to believe the contrary, a decently-trained male fighter would destroy her. The arguments have all been made, so I'm not going to rehash them. But please, don't use the, "You've never fought so you don't know" argument. Any time you are in Phoenix and want to come by the Labs, let me know. I'll get you a free pass to our sparring class.
Click to expand...
And dont forget the most important fact...girls have cooties ...so theres that

 
Rhonda Rousey vs. Kimbo Slice - bad skills match, guess i would go Kimbo

Rhonda Rousey vs. Ken Shamrock - I don't know, i may lean Rhonda here

I tell you Bellator has it set right though. If Viacom can lure a certain somebody over, I can't think of a better set-up then Kimbo vs. Ken, and the winner takes on Brock Lesnar. that HWy division would be so much more exciting then mother F'n Cain not fighting for years

 
kutta said:
sheerterror said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Cliff Clavin said:
BustedKnuckles said:
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?
Click to expand...
Yep. And if Jon Jones gave her 5 free punches, she knocks him out. What's your point?
Click to expand...
seems a guy could just muscle his way out of it...i mean she just s little girl for chrissakes
Click to expand...
That's the point a lot of these guys are missing with this outdated macho bull#### of how a woman could never even compete with a man. When you are talking about the elite of the elite - which Rousey clearly is, you can throw out "conventional wisdown" that men are just physically superior than women in all facets of sport.

If Rousey was a sprawl and brawler that was just knocking #####es out, I would tend to agree with that crowd a little bit more. But she's not. She's a world class grappler with a deadly combination of impeccable technique, timing and power. The execution of her throws happens so rapidly that there is no "muscling out" of it (ditto for arm bars.) Couple that with the size advantage she would have over the flyweight, and I think she could absolutely hold her own against a few of them. The assumption that just because the opposing fighter is a man, and she is a woman - that all he has to do is land 1 punch to put her lights out is just a dated argument by folks who have probably never gotten punched in the face, much less done so in the form of a strategized combat sport.
Click to expand...
This is really getting silly. I've trained in Muay Thai for three years at the MMA Labs in Glendale AZ. I've been punched, kicked, choked, elbowed, and kneed by some pretty darn good fighters. I've had my nose bloodied, my tooth loosened, my eye blackened, and my ribs bruised pretty badly. Others here who are advocating that she wouldn't have a chance against a male fighter have also trained in some form of martial arts.

We all agree she is an amazing fighter. She has outstanding judo and submission skills. But no matter how much you say it and want to believe the contrary, a decently-trained male fighter would destroy her. The arguments have all been made, so I'm not going to rehash them. But please, don't use the, "You've never fought so you don't know" argument. Any time you are in Phoenix and want to come by the Labs, let me know. I'll get you a free pass to our sparring class.
Click to expand...
could you take Cyborg?

 
modogg said:
Rhonda Rousey vs. Kimbo Slice - bad skills match, guess i would go Kimbo

Rhonda Rousey vs. Ken Shamrock - I don't know, i may lean Rhonda here

I tell you Bellator has it set right though. If Viacom can lure a certain somebody over, I can't think of a better set-up then Kimbo vs. Ken, and the winner takes on Brock Lesnar. that HWy division would be so much more exciting then mother F'n Cain not fighting for years
Click to expand...
The idea of Lesnar v Slice being touted as a serious match is :X

 
modogg said:
kutta said:
sheerterror said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Cliff Clavin said:
BustedKnuckles said:
so if a male fighter attacked ronda the exact same way cat did ...and she ended up in the exact same position with the guy ,would she tap him out?
Click to expand...
Yep. And if Jon Jones gave her 5 free punches, she knocks him out. What's your point?
Click to expand...
seems a guy could just muscle his way out of it...i mean she just s little girl for chrissakes
Click to expand...
That's the point a lot of these guys are missing with this outdated macho bull#### of how a woman could never even compete with a man. When you are talking about the elite of the elite - which Rousey clearly is, you can throw out "conventional wisdown" that men are just physically superior than women in all facets of sport.

If Rousey was a sprawl and brawler that was just knocking #####es out, I would tend to agree with that crowd a little bit more. But she's not. She's a world class grappler with a deadly combination of impeccable technique, timing and power. The execution of her throws happens so rapidly that there is no "muscling out" of it (ditto for arm bars.) Couple that with the size advantage she would have over the flyweight, and I think she could absolutely hold her own against a few of them. The assumption that just because the opposing fighter is a man, and she is a woman - that all he has to do is land 1 punch to put her lights out is just a dated argument by folks who have probably never gotten punched in the face, much less done so in the form of a strategized combat sport.
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This is really getting silly. I've trained in Muay Thai for three years at the MMA Labs in Glendale AZ. I've been punched, kicked, choked, elbowed, and kneed by some pretty darn good fighters. I've had my nose bloodied, my tooth loosened, my eye blackened, and my ribs bruised pretty badly. Others here who are advocating that she wouldn't have a chance against a male fighter have also trained in some form of martial arts.We all agree she is an amazing fighter. She has outstanding judo and submission skills. But no matter how much you say it and want to believe the contrary, a decently-trained male fighter would destroy her. The arguments have all been made, so I'm not going to rehash them. But please, don't use the, "You've never fought so you don't know" argument. Any time you are in Phoenix and want to come by the Labs, let me know. I'll get you a free pass to our sparring class.
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could you take Cyborg?
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Probably not. She probably wins 70/30 against me. As does Rousey. Maybe 80/20 for Rousey. But I'm 49 years old and train four days a week for one hour. Then I sit behind a desk and drink diet coke all day.
 
SacramentoBob said:
modogg said:
Rhonda Rousey vs. Kimbo Slice - bad skills match, guess i would go Kimbo

Rhonda Rousey vs. Ken Shamrock - I don't know, i may lean Rhonda here

I tell you Bellator has it set right though. If Viacom can lure a certain somebody over, I can't think of a better set-up then Kimbo vs. Ken, and the winner takes on Brock Lesnar. that HWy division would be so much more exciting then mother F'n Cain not fighting for years
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The idea of Lesnar v Slice being touted as a serious match is :X
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If Tito-Bonner got 1.8 million views that fight would break the TV. for better or for worse

 
The last thing i want to do is to drag out this silly argument about Rousey beating men, but my man Ben Fowlkes wrote an article about it at mmajunkie, and maybe he can have the last word to wrap this up:

from: http://mmajunkie.com/2015/03/stop-arguing-about-how-many-male-fighters-ronda-rousey-could-beat

I’m going to put this as simply as I can, because that’s what this topic deserves: We should all stop talking about whether UFC women’s bantamweight champion Ronda Rousey could beat up men, and we should do it right now.

We should stop arguing about which men she could or could not beat. We should stop trying to put a percentage on it. Stop trying to use these hypothetical Batman vs. Superman-style debates to quantify her greatness, and stop acting like a showdown with the Y chromosome is the only thing that could put it all in perspective for us.

We should stop doing these things because they are dumb and pointless, but also because they so thoroughly miss the point.

It’s not that I can’t understand where the impulse comes from. Most of the time, it comes from a well-intentioned place. When UFC commentator Joe Rogan estimated that Rousey could beat approximately 50 percent of the men on the UFC roster at her weight, he was at least trying to pay her a compliment. So what if it came out sounding like, She’s so good she could even beat some not-so good men!

This, of course, prompted a predictable response: nuh-uh.

Here’s UFC flyweight Ian McCall, arguing in favor of the #### über alles lobby by insisting that “a good man will not lose to Ronda Rousey.”
“Ronda’s definitely not the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world,” McCall said. “She’s the best woman on the planet. That’s cute. Cool. Well, we’re doing men things. Different. I get it, you’re really good and all, but to compare her to Jon (Jones) or Jose (Aldo) or Demetrious (Johnson) or Cain (Velasquez) … come on, any of the champions. It’s a different world. I don’t know. It just frustrates me.”

Yes, how frustrating that must be for McCall. I mean, to have to listen to one fighter being compared to other fighters from completely different divisions? I can’t think of any other scenario where that happens. Except for, you know, any discussion that includes the phrase “pound-for-pound” in the first place.

But that line – “a good man will not lose to Ronda Rousey” – tells you a lot about why this argument sucks from the start, since it’s an argument Rousey can’t win. It creates a hypothetical dynamic where, if the male fighter loses, it tells us more about him than about Rousey.

No “good man” will lose to her? Well then, any man she beats in this never-going-to-happen alternate universe scenario must, by definition, not be that good. It’s the same with the speculation about her beating half the male bantamweights in the UFC. You hear that claim and you don’t have to think too hard about which half the speaker is referring to.

In this way, the greatest female fighter in the world is reduced to a middle-of-the-pack men’s fighter, all via a comparison ostensibly intended to praise her.

Pretty good for a girl, in other words. You’d think a sport constructed around weight classes would appreciate the value of separate divisions. Then again, you’d think a flyweight like McCall would be the one to appreciate it the most. You’d be wrong, apparently.

That’s the thing that’s so insidious about this argument, is that it’s not only pointless, in much the same way that most pound-for-pound arguments are pointless, but it actually drags us further from the real point. It asks us to make a comparison that tells us nothing, that settles nothing, and that, intentionally or otherwise, undercuts the tremendous talent we’re privileged to witness. It takes an athlete who has already changed her sport for good and brands her with “Pretty Good For a Girl.” It sucks, and that’s why we should all stop doing it.

Rousey is the best female fighter in the world. That means a lot. That should be enough. It is, as long as we can shut up and let it be.

 
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I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it

 
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.

No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.

 
kutta said:
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.
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I'd put the line at even between her and Money. Just as likely that he KOs her before she can get him down as it is that she snaps his arm off.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
kutta said:
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.
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I'd put the line at even between her and Money. Just as likely that he KOs her before she can get him down as it is that she snaps his arm off.
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Totally disagree. He is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much quicker than anyone she has ever fought, and soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much stronger. She probably couldn't even touch him in a game of tag in the octogon.

 
kutta said:
Cliff Clavin said:
kutta said:
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.
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I'd put the line at even between her and Money. Just as likely that he KOs her before she can get him down as it is that she snaps his arm off.
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Totally disagree. He is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much quicker than anyone she has ever fought, and soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much stronger. She probably couldn't even touch him in a game of tag in the octogon.
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Then she wins by decision if he runs like a scared little #####. :shrug:

 
***OFFICIAL NOTICE***:

Any further talk of Ronda Rousey vs (a TUF Contestant/A male bantanweight / a bear / a horse sized duck / steven segal / whatever ) -- someone else start a new thread and go nuts in there on that topic.

I think most of us have had enough of that conversation (like this post if you agree, so others can see everyone who doesn't want to read any more of it.)

 
kutta said:
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.
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+1Mayweather would pound her as badly and quickly as he cared to. Silly, IMO, to think she could take punches from him.

 
whiskey7 said:
kutta said:
modogg said:
I really do hate myself for continuing this conversation, but this should be the last one. i thought of a good first fight for Rhonda that i would confidently have my money on Rhonda.

Rhonda Rousey vs. Floyd "Money" Mayweather.

Money would be on Rhonda in a heartbeat. No way Floyd KO's her with one shot or even a good combo, Rhonda would have him on his back in a second and have him tap out 5 later. Floyd has been known to beat some women in his time (wonderful that people just are always fine with these things), so let's book it
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Sorry. Just can't let that be the last word.No way. Professional boxers are so quick, there's just no way she would be able to avoid taking an absolute pounding. She'd never catch him.
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+1Mayweather would pound her as badly and quickly as he cared to. Silly, IMO, to think she could take punches from him.
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:thumbdown: :thumbdown: somebody should start a new thread though.

 
So one thing that no one mentioned is Burt Watson leaving the UFC. Ahrn and some others have talked me into the reddit MMA (which i am still trying to figure out), but only have heard rumors about some big falling out at the weigh-ins. I do wonder what happened, but it seemed a lot of fighters say they will miss him.

Me personally, i would always think how annoying his catch phrases would be as i am focusing going out to fight. I'm probably wrong here, but just would always think that i don't need this dude yelling at me telling me we are rolling as i a getting ready to walk out and fight

 
modogg said:
So one thing that no one mentioned is Burt Watson leaving the UFC. Ahrn and some others have talked me into the reddit MMA (which i am still trying to figure out), but only have heard rumors about some big falling out at the weigh-ins. I do wonder what happened, but it seemed a lot of fighters say they will miss him.

Me personally, i would always think how annoying his catch phrases would be as i am focusing going out to fight. I'm probably wrong here, but just would always think that i don't need this dude yelling at me telling me we are rolling as i a getting ready to walk out and fight
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Agreed, his gimmick always felt cheesy and forced - a la John Lott during the bench press at the NFL combine.

 
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