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Tanking your last game for a better playoff matchup (1 Viewer)

Would you do it in this situation

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • No

    Votes: 17 70.8%
  • Total voters
    24
The Noid

The Noid

Avoid me!
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you.

But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.

Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?

 
The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
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Couple things:A) Do what you want to do that you think is best for your teamB) Karma is a bee-yotch
 
My answer is no. Aside from ethical questions, I disagree with the strategy from a practical standpoint. The team you believe will be the better matchup may far exceed your expectations. The team you believe will be the worse matchup for you may fall well below your expectations. This has been proven in countless instances. Things change quickly in this hobby of ours, and you never know what will happen. All things being equal, it's better to play to win.

 
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In the immortal words of John Lennon

"instant Karma is gonna get ya"

No way man, if you're #1 overall you have the horses to win anyway.

In the over emphasized words or Herm Edwards

"You PLAY to win the game!" :football:

 
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H.K. said:
The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
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B) Karma is a bee-yotch
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H.K., it's rare that I disagree with you, but on this point I disagree that Karma applies to FF. Looking at the big picture, a FF game is not even a blip on the radar screen of the consequences to these NFL games. First, look at the players themselves, their teams, their families, etc. Then, consider the millions of dollars worth in gambling that surrounds these games. Those consequences surrounding NFL games are so much more significant than FF that I don't believe Karma extends as far as FF, at least not in the poster's situation. To a large extent, karma in FF is in our head.
 
Full disclosure: I'm the bubble team and a buddy is the #1. He's not doing it, but has been trash talking that he "might" and it's sparked some interesting debate in our league.

 
MillenniuM Presents: Frank Black said:
I disagree that Karma applies to FF. Looking at the big picture, a FF game is not even a blip on the radar screen of the consequences to these NFL games. First, look at the players themselves, their teams, their families, etc. Then, consider the millions of dollars worth in gambling that surrounds these games. Those consequences surrounding NFL games are so much more significant than FF that I don't believe Karma extends as far as FF, at least not in the poster's situation. To a large extent, karma in FF is in our head.
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only a fool would trifle with the fantasy football godstanking a game to improve your playoff matchup = guaranteed first round exit
 
CletiusMaximus said:
MillenniuM Presents: Frank Black said:
I disagree that Karma applies to FF. Looking at the big picture, a FF game is not even a blip on the radar screen of the consequences to these NFL games. First, look at the players themselves, their teams, their families, etc. Then, consider the millions of dollars worth in gambling that surrounds these games. Those consequences surrounding NFL games are so much more significant than FF that I don't believe Karma extends as far as FF, at least not in the poster's situation. To a large extent, karma in FF is in our head.
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only a fool would trifle with the fantasy football godstanking a game to improve your playoff matchup = guaranteed first round exit
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:goodposting: What I do know can't even fill up a thimble, but I DO know that Karma and Superstition are real. I'll defer to this exchange in Bull Durham to summarize my views:Crash Davis: I told him that a player on a streak has to respect the streak. Annie Savoy: Oh fine. Crash Davis: You know why? Because they don't - -they don't happen very often. Annie Savoy: Right. Crash Davis: If you believe you're playing well because you're getting laid, or because you're not getting laid, or because you wear women's underwear, then you ARE! And you should know that!
 
Our league is trying something out that basically eliminates this situation.

6 teams get in, with 2 obviously getting byes.

The #3 seed gets to choose his first round opponent, and the #1 seed gets to choose his second round opponent. Seeding is only used for playoff qualification and to break playoff ties. This way, if you're the 3rd division winner you have the bonus of the weaker playoff opponent.

We'll see how it goes!

 
No way.

Fantasy leagues only mean something if the league has integrity. That means everyone tries to win. It's bad enough when non-playoff teams start tanking for better draft spots, but when teams are tanking to keep other teams out of the playoffs then you'll find a lot of people lost interest in the league very quickly.

Chances are you make it a little more likely that you'll win the title this year, and much more likely that the league won't exist in future years. I guess it makes sense if you're really hard up for cash right now, but otherwise it's just weak.

 
This is why I'm in leagues that incorporates a point spotting system for the playoffs..+3pts for every win better than you're opponent (kind of like a home field advantage of sorts)

So if a 10-3 team is playing an 8-5 team...the 10-3 team gets a +6pt spot for their game.

This makes ever team continue playing full out up until the final game of the season.

 
This thread (or some variation) pops up EVERY year. Personally, if I think a better playoff matchup favors me and losing my last game sets it up, then I'm tanking the game, football gods be damned. If the league wants to discourage this, it can implement countermeasures like others have posted (e.g. bonus points per win differential, hand-picking playoff opponent, fine for low score of the week, etc.). If the decision comes back and bites me in the buttocks, my leaguemates can ridicule me to no end. If leaguemates are going to whine about how my tanking cost a team a playoff spot, maybe they should win more games. If I end up losing out on a playoff spot next year because somebody employs this same tactic, then maybe I should have won more games.

The Colts did this vs. Denver two years ago. They tanked their finale in Denver, guaranteeing their first playoff game in their dome would be vs...Denver! It worked. They blew out the Broncos in round 1.

 
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No because part of the thrill of fantasy football for me is not just winning, but destroying everyone I play.

It's not just about winning the money... I'm confident I can do that. I want to look relentless and unstoppable in doing it.

Plus it's just a game... why do something like that?

The Patriots did that last year and that's why they got knocked out.

 
The LT owner in our league tanked his last two games before the playoffs to try to get a better matchup. I am fully expecting this manuver to come back to haunt him.

 
pats3in4 said:
This thread (or some variation) pops up EVERY year. Personally, if I think a better playoff matchup favors me and losing my last game sets it up, then I'm tanking the game, football gods be damned. If the league wants to discourage this, it can implement countermeasures like others have posted (e.g. bonus points per win differential, hand-picking playoff opponent, fine for low score of the week, etc.). If the decision comes back and bites me in the buttocks, my leaguemates can ridicule me to no end. If leaguemates are going to whine about how my tanking cost a team a playoff spot, maybe they should win more games. If I end up losing out on a playoff spot next year because somebody employs this same tactic, then maybe I should have won more games.

The Colts did this vs. Denver two years ago. They tanked their finale in Denver, guaranteeing their first playoff game in their dome would be vs...Denver! It worked. They blew out the Broncos in round 1.
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How'd the rest of the playoffs work out?
 
CletiusMaximus said:
MillenniuM Presents: Frank Black said:
I disagree that Karma applies to FF. Looking at the big picture, a FF game is not even a blip on the radar screen of the consequences to these NFL games. First, look at the players themselves, their teams, their families, etc. Then, consider the millions of dollars worth in gambling that surrounds these games. Those consequences surrounding NFL games are so much more significant than FF that I don't believe Karma extends as far as FF, at least not in the poster's situation. To a large extent, karma in FF is in our head.
Click to expand...
only a fool would trifle with the fantasy football godstanking a game to improve your playoff matchup = guaranteed first round exit
Click to expand...
:goodposting: do not pissoff :rant: the FF Gods
 
The answer is yes, with stipulations. I wouldn't tank if I though the other guy needed the game for the playoffs, or if it had any bearing on the playoff picture. And I wouldn't put in a terrible lineup. But let's say I wanted to take a chance on Thomas Jones instead of Frank Gore, or Lavereneous Coles instead of Chad Johnson....or maybe I'd put in a defense that wasn't the best...yes, I'd do it.

 
anyone who purposely loses a game for a better playoff matchup shouldn't be playing fantasy football to begin with. if you're to scared of a potential matchup your team was never good to begin with. if your team is good they'll win no matter what. i'd rather lose knowing i tried my hardest than win knowing i cheated, and yes, it is cheating.

 
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The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
Click to expand...
The fact that someone would attempt to lose is a concern. I'm sure it heppens however. For those that want to find a way to prevent this from happening, one rule would eliminate this and many other problems: Bestball fprmat. Besball means you do not set line ups and that you are given credit for your best starters. An owners can't tank in this format.
 
we have team of the week awards and high player scores. Most teams in my league would not waste a chance at some guaranteed money.

 
I'm not afraid to take the low road on this one... In the specific case you outlined - you could eliminate the HIGHEST SCORING TEAM in the leagueAND knock out LT2 - yes, and I wouldn't waste any time worrying about the "gods". I would try to do it subtly though...

 
Janus3 said:
anyone who purposely loses a game for a better playoff matchup shouldn't be playing fantasy football to begin with. if you're to scared of a potential matchup your team was never good to begin with. if your team is good they'll win no matter what. i'd rather lose knowing i tried my hardest than win knowing i cheated, and yes, it is cheating.
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please. I've been playing FF for 12+ years and I can count on one hand the amount of times the best team has won the league. On any given Sunday...
 
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If karma reaches fantasy football, then the following statement is most likely true, as well.

"As the guaranteed #1 seed, you are wise to rest your starters this week so they'll be fresh for the playoffs."

 
H.K. said:
The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
Click to expand...
Couple things:A) Do what you want to do that you think is best for your teamB) Karma is a bee-yotch
Click to expand...
Wow, not only do I agree with H.K., but this reply should end the discussion.You most definitely tank the game if losing eliminates strong competition in the playoffs - es. if you'd be facing LT2 versus AZ in your first playoff game.Expect some leaguemates to be pissed and expect Karma to bite you sometime down the road.
 
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Family Matters said:
The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
Click to expand...
The fact that someone would attempt to lose is a concern. I'm sure it heppens however. For those that want to find a way to prevent this from happening, one rule would eliminate this and many other problems: Bestball fprmat. Besball means you do not set line ups and that you are given credit for your best starters. An owners can't tank in this format.
Click to expand...
Boo on this - in one league I am in, the highest scoring team not already in the playoffs gets the #6 seed. This situation ACTUALLY HAPPENED last week.The #2 scoring team not already in (#2 team had NO SHOT of getting in by record with only 4 wins on the year) was playing the #1 scoring team not already in. #2 was more than 100 points behind the #1 guy - impossible for him to catch up in points.If the #1 scorer lost, he's eliminated from the playoffs by record, but in as the #6 seed by virtue of points. If the #1 scorer won, he's in on record, thereby giving the #2 guy the #6 seed by virtue of points.What should the #2 guy have done? Play his best and win, thereby eliminatnig himself from the playoffs? Or, should he have tanked the game and thereby insured himself a playoff spot by points????
 
dparker713 said:
In a serious money league, in a heartbeat. In a league with my buddies, nope.
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What about a league with your buddies for serious money?My oldest league is with all my buddies and a G super bowl winner prize - I'd tank my last game in a heartbeat for an easier playoff matchup - and all my leaguemates woud understand why I did it.I don't see why the money matters, though.I like winning the league as much as winning the money, though I put a little more emphasis on winning the $$ leagues.
 
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Marc Levin said:
dparker713 said:
In a serious money league, in a heartbeat. In a league with my buddies, nope.
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What about a league with your buddies for serious money?My oldest league is with all my buddies and a G super bowl winner prize - I'd tank my last game in a heartbeat for an easier playoff matchup - and all my leaguemates woud understand why I did it.I don't see why the money matters, though.I like winning the league as much as winning the money, though I put a little more emphasis on winning the $$ leagues.
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The league with my buddies is for bragging rights and fun, tanking lessens both of those significantly. But the money doesn't care if I used every means at my disposal to win.
 
dparker713 said:
Marc Levin said:
dparker713 said:
In a serious money league, in a heartbeat. In a league with my buddies, nope.
Click to expand...
What about a league with your buddies for serious money?My oldest league is with all my buddies and a G super bowl winner prize - I'd tank my last game in a heartbeat for an easier playoff matchup - and all my leaguemates woud understand why I did it.I don't see why the money matters, though.I like winning the league as much as winning the money, though I put a little more emphasis on winning the $$ leagues.
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The league with my buddies is for bragging rights and fun, tanking lessens both of those significantly.
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Why?Aren't you still trying to win the league at all costs?
 
I expect my buddies to do anything within the rules to win. I don't complain about the guy that grabbed Colston before me to use as a TE on Yahoo!, just as I don't expect to hear complaints in the league where I was the first to jump on him. You want to be a little subtle about tanking though, and not just put nobody at all in your lineup. Too obvious and they will learn to use the same trick against you in the future. And that is what it's about... do onto others as you'd like them to do against you.

I might tank it subtly if it didn't decide who did or didn't get into the playoffs and only give me a preferred matchup. In fact, I hoped for a loss last week for that exact reason as I gave Cutler and Sammy Morris a chance to show what they could do. I got my loss (which I believe I would have got with Delhomme and Dunn anyway), but the LT2 owner also somehow lost and dropped a seeding, so I get to face him now anyway. Dems da breaks.

 
Marc Levin said:
dparker713 said:
Marc Levin said:
dparker713 said:
In a serious money league, in a heartbeat. In a league with my buddies, nope.
Click to expand...
What about a league with your buddies for serious money?My oldest league is with all my buddies and a G super bowl winner prize - I'd tank my last game in a heartbeat for an easier playoff matchup - and all my leaguemates woud understand why I did it.I don't see why the money matters, though.I like winning the league as much as winning the money, though I put a little more emphasis on winning the $$ leagues.
Click to expand...
The league with my buddies is for bragging rights and fun, tanking lessens both of those significantly.
Click to expand...
Why?Aren't you still trying to win the league at all costs?
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Marc, this is an example of why I stay out of the cash action in GOSII. People will do stuff for cash they think is low enough they wouldn't do it to a friend otherwise. Not that I'm making any judgements about our owners in GOSII, I just have that stance in any league I'm in.
 
I don't change my strategies just b/c money is on the line - just like I don't bet a 2 dollar or 200 dollar blackjack hand differently - but I understand where you are coming from.

As to GOSII, specifically, there is NO WAY to game it since we use best starters and eliminations, so I'm not sure that is a valid reason to stay out of the money in that league. But, I understand what you are saying.

 
Marc Levin said:
Family Matters said:
The Noid said:
You're the #1 seed, with one game left, a win is meaningless to you. But if you lose, the team you are playing makes the playoffs which knocks out a bubble team. If that bubble team gets in (needs more than just your opponent to lose, btw) he will be the #8 and play you in the first round. This bubble team is the highest scoring team in the league and has LT2.Right or wrong, bush move or shark move, who cares. You're the #1 team, do you bench your studs to try and lose?
Click to expand...
The fact that someone would attempt to lose is a concern. I'm sure it heppens however. For those that want to find a way to prevent this from happening, one rule would eliminate this and many other problems: Bestball fprmat. Besball means you do not set line ups and that you are given credit for your best starters. An owners can't tank in this format.
Click to expand...
Boo on this - in one league I am in, the highest scoring team not already in the playoffs gets the #6 seed. This situation ACTUALLY HAPPENED last week.The #2 scoring team not already in (#2 team had NO SHOT of getting in by record with only 4 wins on the year) was playing the #1 scoring team not already in. #2 was more than 100 points behind the #1 guy - impossible for him to catch up in points.If the #1 scorer lost, he's eliminated from the playoffs by record, but in as the #6 seed by virtue of points. If the #1 scorer won, he's in on record, thereby giving the #2 guy the #6 seed by virtue of points.What should the #2 guy have done? Play his best and win, thereby eliminatnig himself from the playoffs? Or, should he have tanked the game and thereby insured himself a playoff spot by points????
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If the only way to make the playoffs is to put in not your best lineup then I think it's a different thing. In that case you are really playing to win in an odd way because if you don't do this than there is no way of you winning. I think that's the only example where I would do it.
 
If trying to lose was only going to change the seed order then I might. Or if my loss gets ME in the playoffs I might. If me tanking a game would change who got the last playoff spot (but not me) then I wouldn't tank the game.

However...if I had the #1 seed already wrapped up and was in a league with buddies I would TELL them I was going to throw the game. I'd even set my "throw it" lineup. Then change it back before gametime.

The slippery slope here is also the case next year where one team asks another to throw the game so they get in...and you don't...karma. To always try is the best policy.

 
You can certainly radically change the way your league deasl with you - and with each other - by tanking in order to boot LT from the playoffs.

However, if you want to win this year, you have the #1 wrapped up such that whatever you do won't affect your seeding, and your league understands why you are doing it, why not do all you can to best position yourself to win?

It's not like we are advocating he start taking bids from each team and, based on whoever pays him the most, he'll either tank or not.

Hmmmmmmm. :D

Why is it improper to do something that will boot LT/#1 scoring team from the playoffs - and, more importantly, avoid your own team facing LT/the #1 scoring team v. AZ the following week - if tanking doesn't otherwise affect your team at all?

I am confused why he should play his hardest just to be rewarded with facing LT in his first playoff game.

 
thesurfshop19 said:
Our league is trying something out that basically eliminates this situation.6 teams get in, with 2 obviously getting byes.The #3 seed gets to choose his first round opponent, and the #1 seed gets to choose his second round opponent. Seeding is only used for playoff qualification and to break playoff ties. This way, if you're the 3rd division winner you have the bonus of the weaker playoff opponent.We'll see how it goes!
Click to expand...
I like that setup. :thumbup: It would also make an upset win over one of the seeds even sweeter knowing that they had hand-picked you for an easy kill.
 
I WAS the bubble team a couple of years ago, Team 1 "took a knee" to let me win, so I'd play him the 1st week of the playoffs....and you guessed it. I knocked Team 1 out of the playoffs

 
Owners = play FF like you do chess, sometimes you sacrifice a rook to gain their queen. Odds go up in your favor.

FF is a game of percentages and probabilities.

Commissioners = enforce a rule to have all owners submit competitive line-ups. Just like in chess, sometimes one owner is the pawn and the league is the king. Have to keep royalty on the board with the sacrifice of commoners.

Have to keep everyone in "check" (pun intended).

 
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Yes [ 45 ] [33.33%]

No [ 90 ] [66.67%]

I'm a little shocked it's exactly 2:1 right now. I thought this would have been about 4:1 in favor of the "No" votes.

 
In one of my leagues, the #3 seed gets to pick his opponent in the first round (#1 and #2 have byes) and the #1 seed gets to pick his opponent in the semis. Takes this sort of stuff out of the mix.

 
I was in this situation last year. If I won I drew the higher scoring team (by a big margin). I thought about it ... and played to win. And I won, faced that high scoring, beat them, and went on to win the title. If I played the lower scoring team first I would've lost in the first round. I like to think the fantasy football gods were smiling on me.

 
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