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Zaprudering the Belichick Incident


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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :unsure:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :ph34r:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

Gee I wonder if we would be debating this silly incident if the Jets had actually WON Sunday !!

I doubt it !!

How come you don't want to talk about THE GAME ????????????????????

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

Sounds like BB is the Jet's love child !!!

Hate Him but can't get enough of HIM !!

Enjoy another offseason !!

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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :X

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

Gee I wonder if we would be debating this silly incident if the Jets had actually WON Sunday !!

I doubt it !!

How come you don't want to talk about THE GAME ????????????????????

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

Sounds like BB is the Jet's love child !!!

Hate Him but can't get enough of HIM !!

Enjoy another offseason !!

He's a Pats fan...
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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :X

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

Gee I wonder if we would be debating this silly incident if the Jets had actually WON Sunday !!

I doubt it !!

How come you don't want to talk about THE GAME ????????????????????

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

Sounds like BB is the Jet's love child !!!

Hate Him but can't get enough of HIM !!

Enjoy another offseason !!

We wouldn't be debating it if the Jets won because Belichick wouldn't have gone anywhere near Mangini........
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Who cares if Belichick shoved the reporter? Those annoying media members are constantly in the way, and all Belichick wanted to do was greet Mangini and get the hell out of there to talk with his team. I'm be pretty annoyed at 200 people crowding around snapping pictures in front of me, too.

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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :confused:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

Gee I wonder if we would be debating this silly incident if the Jets had actually WON Sunday !!

I doubt it !!

How come you don't want to talk about THE GAME ????????????????????

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

Sounds like BB is the Jet's love child !!!

Hate Him but can't get enough of HIM !!

Enjoy another offseason !!

It's a thing of beauty to see one Pat fan go off on another Pat fan in a fit of blind homerism. Although the user name is a great disguise.
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The discussion in the other Belichick thread has reached an impasse. Joe and I are looking at the same video and seeing different things. He is accusing me of just being a blind homer incapable of thought not colored in blue, silver, and red, and I am accusing him of either a) being an anti-Belichickite specifically connected to his clear Manning <3 or b) being on a massive fishing trip.

Since Joe drew out a similar thread to two separate polls when discussing something with Bostonfred, I can only assume the same action is appropriate here.

So, should you feel so inclined, view the video below, freezing the fame at :14 and :15, and give your honest impression of what happens above and tell me if Joe is right and I am just a ridiculously biased homer or not.

Please also understand that I am not saying that what Belichick did was not a #### move - I don't think he should've manhandled the guy like that. However I think there's a big difference between pushing a guy and slamming a camera into his face.

So yes, you can think Belichick is a #### and still think he didn't deliberately do what Joe says he clearly did.

TIA. :confused:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

Gee I wonder if we would be debating this silly incident if the Jets had actually WON Sunday !!

I doubt it !!

How come you don't want to talk about THE GAME ????????????????????

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

Sounds like BB is the Jet's love child !!!

Hate Him but can't get enough of HIM !!

Enjoy another offseason !!

It's a thing of beauty to see one Pat fan go off on another Pat fan in a fit of blind homerism. Although the user name is a great disguise.
Part of me thinks that this is a non-Pats fan pretending to be a Pats fan to make us Pats fans look ridiculous.

I have to be suspicious of anyone who makes a list of players the Jets have signed from the Patriots and has Hank Poteat 3rd.

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Who cares if Belichick shoved the reporter? Those annoying media members are constantly in the way, and all Belichick wanted to do was greet Mangini and get the hell out of there to talk with his team. I'm be pretty annoyed at 200 people crowding around snapping pictures in front of me, too.

:thumbup: I don't see any malicious intent there, I don't see him grabbing the camera (more so I see him trying to get around the camera and trying to push him aside by pushing the guy's chest), I see a guy who didn't like having to bust through a crowd of people to shake the other coach's hand.
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I voted NO and NO. I thought it was pretty clear.

Unintentional comedy of the day (and I don't mean the apostrophe):

If you dislike BB so much how come the Jet's fall in love with anything "Belichick"

Mangini

Matt Chattam

Hank Poteat

9/3: The New York Jets released 23 players on Saturday including veteran CB Ray Mickens, OL Marko Cavka, OL Steve Morley, OL Issac Snell; WR Reggie Newhouse, WR Dante Ridgeway TE Walter Rasby and CB Hank Poteat.

9/27: The New England Patriots have re-signed Hank Poteat and placed CB Randall Gay on injured reserve.

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Who cares if Belichick shoved the reporter? Those annoying media members are constantly in the way, and all Belichick wanted to do was greet Mangini and get the hell out of there to talk with his team. I'm be pretty annoyed at 200 people crowding around snapping pictures in front of me, too.

:yucky:
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Who cares if Belichick shoved the reporter? Those annoying media members are constantly in the way, and all Belichick wanted to do was greet Mangini and get the hell out of there to talk with his team. I'm be pretty annoyed at 200 people crowding around snapping pictures in front of me, too.

:goodposting: I don't see any malicious intent there, I don't see him grabbing the camera (more so I see him trying to get around the camera and trying to push him aside by pushing the guy's chest), I see a guy who didn't like having to bust through a crowd of people to shake the other coach's hand.
Belichick had to negotiate one guy to get to Mangini. ONE GUY. From that video, he walks unmolested across the field. With a guy on either side of him. And everyone was taking pictures of Mangini. He chucked aside the guy rudely, that's all there is to it. It was a guy he knows, a Globe photog.Belichick went on the air, apologized, and called the guy at home to apologize personally.Belichick disagrees with you.
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:loco: @ Nantz narrating, "This time a hug, this time a hug."

Really, Jim? Do you think they still love each other? Will they get back together? :shrug:

That push was nothing, BTW. BB's a ##### to be sure, but that's not another reason why.

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You've got to be kidding me.WHY is smut like this getting so much reaction...Who really cares.

Like I said in the OP, I really take no joy in breaking down such a non-issue to this extent - but for Joe to dismiss my opinions as a "blind homer" really made me want to see if the SP thought that Belichick did this on purpose, as Joe thinks.
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Belichick went on the air, apologized, and called the guy at home to apologize personally.Belichick disagrees with you.

Thread killer.
Agreed.
Not really.I'm not saying that he shouldn't have apologized for pushing the guy. It was rude. I'm glad Belichick apologized for it as I think an apology was warranted.But, as I've said numerous times between the two threads, there's a difference between being rude and shoving a guy and causing the guy to hit himself in the face with his camera and deliberately grabbing the camera and shoving it into the guy's face. The latter is what Joe says is clearly going on, and he is so convinced of it that he dismissed my differing opinion on the basis that I am just a blind homer. Hence, the thread with this poll to see if the rest of the SP agrees with my assesment or Joe's since my opinion alone clearly has no value being from Massachusetts.
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But, as I've said numerous times between the two threads, there's a difference between being rude and shoving a guy and causing the guy to hit himself in the face with his camera and deliberately grabbing the camera and shoving it into the guy's face. The latter is what Joe says is clearly going on, and he is so convinced of it that he dismissed my differing opinion on the basis that I am just a blind homer.

When you develop that tool that allows you to peer into the hearts of other men be sure to let us all know. Until then, this is a waste of time. We will never know. I can live with that. Can you?
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Belichick went on the air, apologized, and called the guy at home to apologize personally.Belichick disagrees with you.

Thread killer.
Agreed.
Not really.I'm not saying that he shouldn't have apologized for pushing the guy. It was rude. I'm glad Belichick apologized for it as I think an apology was warranted.But, as I've said numerous times between the two threads, there's a difference between being rude and shoving a guy and causing the guy to hit himself in the face with his camera and deliberately grabbing the camera and shoving it into the guy's face. The latter is what Joe says is clearly going on, and he is so convinced of it that he dismissed my differing opinion on the basis that I am just a blind homer. Hence, the thread with this poll to see if the rest of the SP agrees with my assesment or Joe's since my opinion alone clearly has no value being from Massachusetts.
think about trying to make your way through a crowded bar or at a concert. Do you ever even think of pushing people out of the way anywhere near their faces? Of course not. He is a jerk, its no surprise anymore. He is still the best coach in the league, but the man really has no class.
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But, as I've said numerous times between the two threads, there's a difference between being rude and shoving a guy and causing the guy to hit himself in the face with his camera and deliberately grabbing the camera and shoving it into the guy's face. The latter is what Joe says is clearly going on, and he is so convinced of it that he dismissed my differing opinion on the basis that I am just a blind homer.

When you develop that tool that allows you to peer into the hearts of other men be sure to let us all know. Until then, this is a waste of time. We will never know. I can live with that. Can you?
Man this really shouldn't be that tough to get.The fact that my opinion is getting more votes than Joe's is NOT the point - I understand that interpreting Belichick's intent in an opinion, and I respect the fact that people, including Joe obviously, have differin opinions.The point is that the point Joe was trying to make that Belichick's intent was so obvious that only a blind homer who was not in touch with reality could interpret it any other way.Examples below.

But to claim he "accidentally" grabbed the camera and shoved it into the guy's face is kind of scary on the homer / denial scale. It's ok. He's still the best coach. Seriously.

;) at "accidentally" grabbing the camera the guy's holding and shoving it back in his face so you can get to where you want to go on the field. :lmao:

If you need it spelled out for you, at :14, he clearly puts his right hand on the camera and shoves the camera back hard into the guy's face.But the blind defense of the guy and refusal to see reality even when the video is right in front of folks is fascinating to me. :moneybag:J

I'm not sure if this is :lmao: or scary. I'm leaning toward scary.And :bag: at getting reeled in on this one. But as I said, the blinding homerism fascinates me.J

So, once again, the point of this poll is to see if Joe is correct and that I am in the minority with my interpretation of this video because of my inability to view anything without being influenced by my affiliation with the Patriots.
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Belichick went on the air, apologized, and called the guy at home to apologize personally.Belichick disagrees with you.

Thread killer.
Agreed.
Yup. I should add that if TO did this, there would be at least five threads in the Shark Pool calling for his execution by firing squad.
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Belichick went on the air, apologized, and called the guy at home to apologize personally.Belichick disagrees with you.

Thread killer.
Agreed.
Yup. I should add that if TO did this, there would be at least five threads in the Shark Pool calling for his execution by firing squad.
I really wasn't intending for this to become a recycled version of the arguments made on the original BB thread about this, but someone said this there and my response to it is: so what?There SHOULD be a different response for when TO does stuff Vs. virtually everyone else on the planet. I think it's pretty safe to say that TO no longer has the benefit of the doubt with most people - I don't see why Belichick wouldn't have it, at least up until this incident if you chose to view it has a huge thing.There's a double standard for TO - that's the position he's put himself in. I don't see what pointing that out has to do with this discussion.
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I think BB should have to go to anger management classes with Tigger.

The funniest part of that story was hearing the rant of the boy's father. He kept calling the guy "Tigger" like he was actually yelling at the character."What really pisses me off is that Tigger can't come out here and apologize to my son - Tigger won't be a man about it." Stuff like that.
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But, as I've said numerous times between the two threads, there's a difference between being rude and shoving a guy and causing the guy to hit himself in the face with his camera and deliberately grabbing the camera and shoving it into the guy's face. The latter is what Joe says is clearly going on, and he is so convinced of it that he dismissed my differing opinion on the basis that I am just a blind homer.

When you develop that tool that allows you to peer into the hearts of other men be sure to let us all know. Until then, this is a waste of time. We will never know. I can live with that. Can you?
Man this really shouldn't be that tough to get.

The fact that my opinion is getting more votes than Joe's is NOT the point - I understand that interpreting Belichick's intent in an opinion, and I respect the fact that people, including Joe obviously, have differin opinions.

The point is that the point Joe was trying to make that Belichick's intent was so obvious that only a blind homer who was not in touch with reality could interpret it any other way.

Examples below.

But to claim he "accidentally" grabbed the camera and shoved it into the guy's face is kind of scary on the homer / denial scale. It's ok. He's still the best coach. Seriously.

:lmao: at "accidentally" grabbing the camera the guy's holding and shoving it back in his face so you can get to where you want to go on the field. :lmao:

If you need it spelled out for you, at :14, he clearly puts his right hand on the camera and shoves the camera back hard into the guy's face.

But the blind defense of the guy and refusal to see reality even when the video is right in front of folks is fascinating to me. :shrug:

J

I'm not sure if this is :lmao: or scary. I'm leaning toward scary.

And :bag: at getting reeled in on this one. But as I said, the blinding homerism fascinates me.

J

So, once again, the point of this poll is to see if Joe is correct and that I am in the minority with my interpretation of this video because of my inability to view anything without being influenced by my affiliation with the Patriots.
i think people arent realizing that the camera is also about 3inches lower than the lens. if lou look at the cameramans left hand which is below the lens, almost his whole left hand is on the camera. Belichek grabs exactly the same spot on the opposite side of the camera, and almost his whole hand is entirely on the camera as well. He most certainly did NOT grab the mans wrist. If the camera was pink, this would be obvious.

Whether he was trying to push the camera into the mans face is one thing because we can not know his intent, but saying he didnt push the camera is basically like saying Vinny T actually scored that TD years back.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...p;modelid=12012

if you look at that camera in the link you can see there is no way BB is not grabbing the camera.

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Belichick deliberately grabbed the camera. (Probably because he thought that was the place to get the most leverage against a photographer as they are protective of the tools of their trade) He deliberately moved it back and to the side. Whether he intended for the camera to strike the photog's face we will never know. My belief is that he thought the photog would recoil to protect his camera. The mild, and I do mean mild striking of the face was likely not deliberate, though I do believe it showed a reckless disregard for the outcome.

In the end I stike with my original post, the behaviour was boorish, but I just can't work up any outrage.

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Two things.

1. I watched it again and I still think he grabbed his wrist - that his hand wrapped around the guy's wrist.

2. How the hell did you find out what kind of camera it was?

Look, again, I can understand people thinking he grabbed the camera Vs. didn't grab the camera. What I don't understand is someone saying that it's so obvious that you must be a blind homer to think otherwise.

If this was called a wrist-grab by the refs and it was reviewed, there would be inconclusive evidence to overturn the call.

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Yup. I should add that if TO did this, there would be at least five threads in the Shark Pool calling for his execution by firing squad.

I really wasn't intending for this to become a recycled version of the arguments made on the original BB thread about this, but someone said this there and my response to it is: so what?There SHOULD be a different response for when TO does stuff Vs. virtually everyone else on the planet. I think it's pretty safe to say that TO no longer has the benefit of the doubt with most people - I don't see why Belichick wouldn't have it, at least up until this incident if you chose to view it has a huge thing.There's a double standard for TO - that's the position he's put himself in. I don't see what pointing that out has to do with this discussion.
Heh. I certainly don't want to threadjack your exciting defense of Belichick's ridiculous actions, but I'll just note quickly that I always love it when TO Hataz play the "anyone else on the planet" card. The worst thing that TO has ever done is probably spitting in DHall's face. Ray Lewis may have helped to murder someone and Randy Moss tried to run over a meter maid with his car; I won't supply the arm's length scroll needed to catalog the various domestic violence arrests and the Bengals' police blotter. Forgive me if I'll take TO over these gentlemen. Incidentally, I doubt TO will shove any cameramen anytime soon, either.
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Heh. I certainly don't want to threadjack your exciting defense of Belichick's ridiculous actions, but I'll just note quickly that I always love it when TO Hataz play the "anyone else on the planet" card. The worst thing that TO has ever done is probably spitting in DHall's face. Ray Lewis may have helped to murder someone and Randy Moss tried to run over a meter maid with his car; I won't supply the arm's length scroll needed to catalog the various domestic violence arrests and the Bengals' police blotter. Forgive me if I'll take TO over these gentlemen. Incidentally, I doubt TO will shove any cameramen anytime soon, either.

Point taken. TO is not the worst guy in the world, and probably not even the worst in sports. The general point was that he has lost the benefit of the doubt with me.I'm going to stop responding to each post about whether or not he grabs the camera - the fact that there's even debate about it supported by the poll results are enough to make the point that it is NOT, as Joe says, a "reality" that Belichick deliberately grabbed the camera and slammed it into the guy's face.
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Two things.1. I watched it again and I still think he grabbed his wrist - that his hand wrapped around the guy's wrist.2. How the hell did you find out what kind of camera it was?Look, again, I can understand people thinking he grabbed the camera Vs. didn't grab the camera. What I don't understand is someone saying that it's so obvious that you must be a blind homer to think otherwise.If this was called a wrist-grab by the refs and it was reviewed, there would be inconclusive evidence to overturn the call.

i cant believe i am analyzing this so much, but what the heck, why not. If you look closely at the picture of the camera the place where the right hand holds it is a special grip. This is what allows the very same cameraman to lift the camera up and take pictures with one hand as BB is walking away. The way you have to hold this camera and the fact that BB's hand is in plain sight makes it impossible for BB to have grabbed the cameramans right wrist as his right wrist is actually out of sight. Then if you watch BB's right index finger on the slow motion replay closely you will see that it actually gets hung up on the little lip on the lower outward curve of the camera. If you had this camera in your hand and put your finger in the same spot and pulled down you could see why you index finger might get hung up here in an ubrupt movement.edited to add again that i think it is impossible to say that he was trying to hit the cameraman in the face. Mainly just trying to stress that he was going for the camera, because like i stated earlier when i am trying to push people out of the way I grab them nowhere near their face.
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