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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (1 Viewer)

Woe be to the Usurpers Benioff and Weiss if they #### up the Tower of Joy scene. (for example, by changing who is present, changing the dialogue or changing any fooking thing at all from the text).

 
Porkchop Express said:
Very interesting article about why are likely never to see either book finished.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/01/george-rr-martins-crisis-of-faith-or-why-our-winds.html
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I realize I'm more down on GRRM's recent output than several people here, but I feel like his struggles were already evident in the markedly inferior quality of books 4 and 5 (YMMV), and my expectations for TWOW aren't high at all.

It's been 20 years since A Game of Thrones. He's a different person and writer today, naturally. He's the guy who mantains that he doesn't enjoy writing, but rather having written. I absolutely get that, because writing is an arduous process, but it's a tough combination when you're a slow writer to begin with, getting older, struggling with the material, and by the writer's own admission, more of a gardener than an architect when it comes to outlining his stories. 

At any rate, pessimism aside, I'll hang around to see what becomes of it, of course.

 
Abrantes said:
I realize I'm more down on GRRM's recent output than several people here, but I feel like his struggles were already evident in the markedly inferior quality of books 4 and 5 (YMMV), and my expectations for TWOW aren't high at all.

It's been 20 years since A Game of Thrones. He's a different person and writer today, naturally. He's the guy who mantains that he doesn't enjoy writing, but rather having written. I absolutely get that, because writing is an arduous process, but it's a tough combination when you're a slow writer to begin with, getting older, struggling with the material, and by the writer's own admission, more of a gardener than an architect when it comes to outlining his stories. 

At any rate, pessimism aside, I'll hang around to see what becomes of it, of course.
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Writing is really hard and arduous like you said. I think he's made a decision that he likes reveling in fame and celebrity than the hard work of finishing his work so that is what he is gonna do.

 
Abrantes said:
I realize I'm more down on GRRM's recent output than several people here, but I feel like his struggles were already evident in the markedly inferior quality of books 4 and 5 (YMMV), and my expectations for TWOW aren't high at all.

It's been 20 years since A Game of Thrones. He's a different person and writer today, naturally. He's the guy who mantains that he doesn't enjoy writing, but rather having written. I absolutely get that, because writing is an arduous process, but it's a tough combination when you're a slow writer to begin with, getting older, struggling with the material, and by the writer's own admission, more of a gardener than an architect when it comes to outlining his stories. 

At any rate, pessimism aside, I'll hang around to see what becomes of it, of course.
Click to expand...
My expectations for TWOW are pretty high. GRRM wasn't expecting to write much of the content of the previous two books. I expect TWOW to be where he *really* wanted to start after his originally planned 5 year gap following the end of ASOS.

 
Gr00vus said:
Maybe he was Ned's squire/servant/man at arms at the time?

Anyway, they have to have Reed in this thing - he's the only living witness to who Jon's parents really are.
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With Bran being able to see the past, do we need a living witness?  

 
sn0mm1s said:
My expectations for TWOW are pretty high. GRRM wasn't expecting to write much of the content of the previous two books. I expect TWOW to be where he *really* wanted to start after his originally planned 5 year gap following the end of ASOS.
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Scrapping the five-year gap certainly messed him up. Probably the series' biggest debacle resulting from his organic approach to writing. He did try to remedy the situation, but some characters end up doing things that feel weird (to say the least) for their ages, because GRRM expected them to be far older by that point. It's impossible to know if GRRM is satisfied with the way the books' timeline turned out, but I do hope he's past the roughest spots in the story, yes. 

 
I just realized that the show doesn't have any latino or asian people, and all the black people have no penis.  hmmmm...

 
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parrot said:
With Bran being able to see the past, do we need a living witness?  
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To get the exposition to us the viewers/readers no - to make it plausible to the people in the story, probably. I don't know that the crippled kid who talks to trees will get much traction for a "Jon is actually the son of whoever" story without some support. And what better support could he get than that from the last remaining person who was actually there and is a lord.

 
Huh. I hadn't read or didn't recall the whole Tyrion killed Tywin on Father's Day thing.  Theories that they do this stuff intentionally and that we'll get Jon's mother info similarly on Mother's Day.

Can't wait for Naath Lesbian Day.

 
Bob Sacamano said:
Huh. I hadn't read or didn't recall the whole Tyrion killed Tywin on Father's Day thing.  Theories that they do this stuff intentionally and that we'll get Jon's mother info similarly on Mother's Day.

Can't wait for Naath Lesbian Day.
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Haven't they skipped mothers day in the past?

 
Bob Sacamano said:
Huh. I hadn't read or didn't recall the whole Tyrion killed Tywin on Father's Day thing.  Theories that they do this stuff intentionally and that we'll get Jon's mother info similarly on Mother's Day.

Can't wait for Naath Lesbian Day.
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Margery and Cersei kiss and make up?

 
I wonder how much detail Martin has shared with the show runners - does he give them a basic outline of the story, and they hit the major milestones, but make up their own details, or has he given more of the details.

 
Frostillicus said:
no idea what this means
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They changed dialogue in the tower of joy scene except the first and last lines. 

They didn't go through the whole scene. Instead of us seeing lyanna stark and the "promise me" we get a "not this time."  Which is basically to be continued. 

The show isn't executing as well and I just want the books at this point. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
They changed dialogue in the tower of joy scene except the first and last lines. 

They didn't go through the whole scene. Instead of us seeing lyanna stark and the "promise me" we get a "not this time."  Which is basically to be continued. 

The show isn't executing as well and I just want the books at this point. 
Click to expand...


Completely disagree, but not in a dickish way like most people on the internet and in particular this show don't yell at me I liked it ok?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
They changed dialogue in the tower of joy scene except the first and last lines. 

They didn't go through the whole scene. Instead of us seeing lyanna stark and the "promise me" we get a "not this time."  Which is basically to be continued. 

The show isn't executing as well and I just want the books at this point. 
Click to expand...
So just stop watching and wait for the books :shrug:

 
Porkchop Express said:
Last two episodes felt very rushed. Also, please let there be the Wyman Manderly plotline.
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Nah. Hurry the f up already. 

that was a nothing happen episode. and the Tower of Joy was a let down, drag it out some more.............................

My watch has ended is nice though,

 
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Big takeaway for me - Bran isn't staying in the treehouse.  Would have liked more info on the Tower of Joy scene, but still nice.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I wonder how much detail Martin has shared with the show runners - does he give them a basic outline of the story, and they hit the major milestones, but make up their own details, or has he given more of the details.
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"Ok guys, I've got 1500 pages or so of things that happen. But, here's points A, B and C. Run with it"

 
Frostillicus said:
Completely disagree, but not in a dickish way like most people on the internet and in particular this show don't yell at me I liked it ok?
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I'll be dickish. Does it really matter? At least we got to see it. And that was a pretty badass swordfight. My wife who surfs facebook during the show stopped and said "Whoa, Ned really didn't kill that dude? Awesome". I think they hit the right points...and they'll come back to it.

 
Ilov80s said:
What was the exact prophesy again?
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The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Valonqar means "little brother" in High Valyrian

 
Hah. I didn't mind the changes to the ToJ dialogue. Changed for sorely-needed clarity. And of course they cut the flashback short. It's a huge scene, and there's a lot for Bran to show us yet, this early in the season. I've seen differing opinions, but the actual fight worked for me, and made sense.

 
Abrantes said:
Hah. I didn't mind the changes to the ToJ dialogue. Changed for sorely-needed clarity. And of course they cut the flashback short. It's a huge scene, and there's a lot for Bran to show us yet, this early in the season. I've seen differing opinions, but the actual fight worked for me, and made sense.
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We don't necessarily know if they changed it, as Ned was remembering from a fever dream and it may not have been entirely accurate anyways.

But ya, the changes didn't bother me. The tease about Lyanna did. 

 
Also - I know we all sort of expected Jon to leave the Night's Watch, but really an odd decision to turn his back on his brothers - knowing what he knows is coming....

 
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