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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (2 Viewers)

Leeroy Jenkins said:
Ghost Rider said:
Leeroy, I think the point is that he was dead, and the who, why and how was not explicitly told to leave a little bit up to the imagination, so you can almost conjure up different ways the plot to kill him went down. In other words, there is no one who, one why and one how as to how he died. The point is that he died. You are asking for specific answers to questions that could have many answers.
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If there had been some loose ends, then I'd agree that there could be many answers. But there weren't. I'm not looking for a definitive answer though. I'm waiting for a reasonable argument on who, why, and how tony died. An answer about the coldness of the universe is made up crap after the fact.
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1) New York, already had in its head the idea that the profits of the Lupartazzi Family would go up exponentially without the a redundant leadership situation in New Jersey. Get rid of the leadership of the "glorified crew" and do business with what's left. That may originally be Phil's sentiment....but it's one the Butchie and Co. initially saw the benefit in. It's not a stretch to think that this sentiment, although put on the back burner to take care of the Phil Situation....is a continually prevalent thought in New York.

2) Add to that, New York's opinion that Tony's a bit of a poseur ("he's never even been in jail")....a sentiment continually thought upon by the Upper Brass of the Lupartazzi Family (Carmine, Little Carmine, Phil, I think Johhny Sack even echoed those words,....and I believe Butchie thought the same). There's very little respect for the Soprano Crew. And why should there be?....What a half dozen guys from that "glorified crew" have flipped since the series started?....At least that many.....

3) Add to that idea the fact that Tony, for all intents and purposes is going to go to trial. His lawyer said that there's an 80%-90% chance of an indictment and a trial. Is it a stretch for New York, who already doesn't have much respect for Tony, to think that he'll flip to save his own ###?

The players may have changed....but the game is the same....and in the game, Tony is viewed as a ####ty leader, who very soon will go to trial....and whose "intestinal fortitude" in regards to prison has never really been challenged. Hell....its not much of an assumption to assume that both families spy on each other. Tony getting close to Agent Harris during the last season wouldn't have gone unnoticed.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
werdnoynek said:
so basically chase is telling you not to ask those questions... :)
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Because he doesn't have an answer that fits the story (as opposed to the theme or message).
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no, because there isn't an answer!!! he left it up to the viewer to draw their own conclusions... the who/why/how shouldn't matter. you're clearly hung up on it and i don't think you're going to find any closure to those questions. you've drawn your own conclusion but to ignore what chase is telling us with the camera just because it isn't laid out in the story with characters or dialog is kind of short sighted and missing the point imo.

 
GTBilly said:
Chase got exactly what he wanted. We're still discussing it years later.
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I'm not sure that's what he was shooting for, Billy.

As an aside, I'm not one of those viewers who need to be spoon-fed every little detail of every character. But I was/am furious that we didn't get to SEE this particular resolution. It's not exactly a minor thing we're talking about. After investing all of those years into that character, I wanted a satisfactory conclusion. And "leaving it up to our imagination" is crap. That's why a show has writers.... so I won't have to use my imagination to ascertain what the most plausible final act was.

 
To me it was about the struggle of it all. A major war, friends dead, crew in shambles and nothing to show for it. Kind of right back where he started. Maybe I need to watch it again but count me among the disappointed. Still miss that show though.

 
For sure dead. He gives it away in the way he shot the scene. That shot of Members Only walking into the bathroom. The shots of him glancing over from the counter. The way he staged the family. As far as who did it and why, it could have been anybody. I always thought Patsy could have been behind it. Tony was very vulnerable from a standpoint of power at the end of the show. Bobby, Sil, Christopher all dead. Carlo flipped. Outside of paulie who didn't want more than what was on his plate already, Tony basically lost his inner circle. If somebody from Jersey wanted to make a move that was as good a time as any. They probably would have taken out Paulie too who we last see being watched by the cat who starred at Christopher's picture. The scene in one of the last episodes where Patsy and his wife are at Tony's house, Tony basically slaps him down a little in that scene, patsy gives him a look. His wife admiring the fine China. I'm not saying it happened but it's possible. Maybe he worked something out with Butchie about a real estate split that worked better for both of them. Who knows? He's dead though, that we know.

 
werdnoynek said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
werdnoynek said:
so basically chase is telling you not to ask those questions... :)
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Because he doesn't have an answer that fits the story (as opposed to the theme or message).
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no, because there isn't an answer!!! he left it up to the viewer to draw their own conclusions... the who/why/how shouldn't matter. you're clearly hung up on it and i don't think you're going to find any closure to those questions. you've drawn your own conclusion but to ignore what chase is telling us with the camera just because it isn't laid out in the story with characters or dialog is kind of short sighted and missing the point imo.
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Exactly. And I get the impression that Leeroy won't accept any answer we'd give, anyway. I could say who did it...he would argue otherwise. I could say why they did it...he would argue otherwise. I could how they did it...he would argue otherwise.

 
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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well said.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason.

The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe.
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I assume no one posted this again because every one has read it before, but in case you missed it and if you are looking for an extremely detailed analysis of why Tony is dead, this is the best source

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

 
NewlyRetired said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe.
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I assume no one posted this again because every one has read it before, but in case you missed it and if you are looking for an extremely detailed analysis of why Tony is dead, this is the best source

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/
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I've read that before and it as posted again yesterday.

The relevant portion starts out as

Ultimately, Chase left substantial evidence that Tony was killed but failed to offer anything concrete as to who was behind it. Therefore I do not believe the issue is that important to him and should not be to us.
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Then it goes into what we kind of talked about. As in depth as the whole article goes about everything else, this portion is pretty weak. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, but it seems like it's grasping at straws that aren't really there. Patsy is pretty incompetant. I felt he and his wife were nervous and envious at the engagement dinner, but for reasons of insecurity rather than anything to do with their other son.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason.

The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.
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If it's poorly done, what you you have done?

 
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason. The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.
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If it's poorly done, what you you have done?
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Had him get wacked at Melphi's office after chit chatting with a new patient on the couch outside (I wouldn't have had her totally give up on him so he was there for a regular appointment). Then he gets by this person killed in front of Melphi and her failure is complete. The killer leaves and gets in a car w Patsi, butchie, hesh, both, or somebody else. No blank screen crap. Maybe had him get wacked at Artie's like he'd been trying to avoid in season 1.
 
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The killer sits closest to the door. Melphi opens it, tony stands up and walks toward her. Melphi's view of the other guy is obstructed by the door. Blam.

If you want to get artsy, cut to melphie's face looking at tony smiling, cut to Tony's face smiling. Hear a phrase in Russian in the background, tony begins to turn or change facial expression, black screen.

 
My take after not seeing an episode since the finale aired:

That last scene is the biggest glimpse into Tony's life as all the episodes combines. Even with his family, in public, everyone thinks he is going to get whacked. Welcome to inner tension and panic attacks.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason. The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.
Click to expand...
If it's poorly done, what you you have done?
Click to expand...
Had him get wacked at Melphi's office after chit chatting with a new patient on the couch outside (I wouldn't have had her totally give up on him so he was there for a regular appointment). Then he gets by this person killed in front of Melphi and her failure is complete. The killer leaves and gets in a car w Patsi, butchie, hesh, both, or somebody else. No blank screen crap.Maybe had him get wacked at Artie's like he'd been trying to avoid in season 1.
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In other words, it would have been better if Chase had wrapped it all up in a bow. I think it's more interesting as-is.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason. The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.
Click to expand...
If it's poorly done, what you you have done?
Click to expand...
Had him get wacked at Melphi's office after chit chatting with a new patient on the couch outside (I wouldn't have had her totally give up on him so he was there for a regular appointment). Then he gets by this person killed in front of Melphi and her failure is complete. The killer leaves and gets in a car w Patsi, butchie, hesh, both, or somebody else. No blank screen crap.Maybe had him get wacked at Artie's like he'd been trying to avoid in season 1.
Click to expand...
In other words, it would have been better if Chase had wrapped it all up in a bow. I think it's more interesting as-is.
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I don't think it's more interesting for the over analyzed symbolism to point to him being killed and the circumstances and story pointing to him being alive. My original interpretation in 2007 was more like we get a glimpse of Tony's constant tension, and we were a part if his life and now its over. If you're going to kill him, then kill him. Death leaves no room for interpretation.
 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
I think people are misunderstanding me. I'm not really looking for closure. I'm looking for the people who have interpretted everything to mean that Tony is dead, to backup the theory within the story and Soprano universe. I think that you are right that Chase doesn't "know" per se, but he certainly was going for people to debate whether Tony died. He used many techniques to lead people into that conclusion. It seems he didn't really have it all planned out though, and based on the story and the circumstances of that night, the ending was lazy IMO. Sure, we had a lot of imagery, foreshadowing, and the like in a lot of ways throughout the series. They all were tips, but still the results stood on their own within the story. The dreams were insights into Tony's thinking, worries, intentions, etc. They weren't just there for no reason. The overall story of Tony ultimately losing to his own insecurities is a good one. In the end, his mob family was decimated, often by his actions, inactions, and selfish and misguided reasoning. He should have met his demise for the story. The execution (pun sort of intended) was just poorly done IMO and doesn't make much sense based on where things stood.
Click to expand...
If it's poorly done, what you you have done?
Click to expand...
Had him get wacked at Melphi's office after chit chatting with a new patient on the couch outside (I wouldn't have had her totally give up on him so he was there for a regular appointment). Then he gets by this person killed in front of Melphi and her failure is complete. The killer leaves and gets in a car w Patsi, butchie, hesh, both, or somebody else. No blank screen crap.Maybe had him get wacked at Artie's like he'd been trying to avoid in season 1.
Click to expand...
In other words, it would have been better if Chase had wrapped it all up in a bow. I think it's more interesting as-is.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's more interesting for the over analyzed symbolism to point to him being killed and the circumstances and story pointing to him being alive. My original interpretation in 2007 was more like we get a glimpse of Tony's constant tension, and we were a part if his life and now its over. If you're going to kill him, then kill him. Death leaves no room for interpretation.
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That we don't know what happens to Tony is far more intriguing to me, and it will be for decades to come.

 
Sebowski said:
My take after not seeing an episode since the finale aired: That last scene is the biggest glimpse into Tony's life as all the episodes combines. Even with his family, in public, everyone thinks he is going to get whacked. Welcome to inner tension and panic attacks.
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From the masters of sopranos link. That whole thing is a really good read. "Furthermore, from a storytelling standpoint, it does not make much sense that Chase, who planned the ending years in advance, would use the final scene to simply make the statement that “this is how Tony will have to live the rest of his life.” The viewers already know Tony will always have to look over his shoulder. The viewers have known this since the beginning (Tony is mafia boss!). Chase could have created a Tony POV sequence to convey this message in any of the other 86 episodes. It makes much more sense that the Tony POV sequence was created to put the viewer in Tony’s eyes at the exact moment of his death. Remember, Tony Soprano is the main character the viewer has followed all of these years. We have been inside his head in multiple dream sequences and have intimate knowledge of his personality and fears through his visits to Dr. Melfi. It makes sense to put the viewer in Tony’s POV at the time of his death. Once Tony is dead, there is no show. If Tony was to die it had to be the last moment of the series. The show ends where Tony’s consciousness ends."
 
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JAMES! said:
Sebowski said:
My take after not seeing an episode since the finale aired: That last scene is the biggest glimpse into Tony's life as all the episodes combines. Even with his family, in public, everyone thinks he is going to get whacked. Welcome to inner tension and panic attacks.
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From the masters of sopranos link. That whole thing is a really good read. "Furthermore, from a storytelling standpoint, it does not make much sense that Chase, who planned the ending years in advance, would use the final scene to simply make the statement that “this is how Tony will have to live the rest of his life.” The viewers already know Tony will always have to look over his shoulder. The viewers have known this since the beginning (Tony is mafia boss!). Chase could have created a Tony POV sequence to convey this message in any of the other 86 episodes. It makes much more sense that the Tony POV sequence was created to put the viewer in Tony’s eyes at the exact moment of his death. Remember, Tony Soprano is the main character the viewer has followed all of these years. We have been inside his head in multiple dream sequences and have intimate knowledge of his personality and fears through his visits to Dr. Melfi. It makes sense to put the viewer in Tony’s POV at the time of his death. Once Tony is dead, there is no show. If Tony was to die it had to be the last moment of the series. The show ends where Tony’s consciousness ends."
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:thumbup:

 
After watching the finale again I think it's fairly obvious that Butchie was responsible for the hit on Tony. The sit down Butchie arranges accomplishes 3 things: One, he ensures his own safety. Things are hairy for everyone and with Silvio and Bobby getting shot, Butchie and the other top guy would obviously have a target on their back. Two, he cuts Phil loose ensuring that he'll move up to the top slot. A perfect time for him to make such a move as Tony wants this thing to end as much as anyone and killing Phil brings the peace back. Three, he lulls Tony into a false sense of security. Phil gets taken out and everything goes back to normal. Tony is so eager to end the war that he overlooks the obvious in that he and Butchie don't have the best history. Only a short time ago Tony shoved a gun in his face with the Coco beating. Butchie going out of his way to be a Richard whenever they meet (in the hospital, at Phil's house). Butchie is really going to make nice with Tony now that he's the top guy? I don't see it. The initial plan was to decapitate the Jersey family and do business with what's left. How could Butchie gain the respect of his people by not taking out Tony after Phil gets whacked? Making a move was inevitable. He even sells the plan to old school Paulie during the sitdown by not giving out Phil's location but giving the go ahead to "do what you gotta do". Phil is gone, the war is over, Butchie has shown good faith by sitting down and giving his blessing to whacking Phil, life goes back to normal. Except...Butchie doesn't like Tony, needs to show his own people he's in charge by showing Phil's death will be properly avenged. Phil gone, Butchie is the boss and with Tony taken out, balance is restored and Butchie has the respect of the NY guys. Win-win-win for Butchie. Tony let his gaurd down from the sitdown forward. He was anything but looking over his shoulder in the restaurant and met the same fate as Phil did: shot in the head by a low level guy in front of his own family.
 
The point of who killed Tony is insignificant. Sure, it is fun to posit theories about the killer, but Chase didn't care. The point was that Tony had destroyed so many lives over the course of the series that it could have been anyone, connected or not.

I also completely agree with Chase's sentiment that to show Tony's death would completely belittle it. Other than the instant gratification of seeing his violent demise, it would not be a powerful ending. That final scene, in my opinion, with such incredible attention to detail, is a masterpiece.

 
QB Bills said:
The point of who killed Tony is insignificant. Sure, it is fun to posit theories about the killer, but Chase didn't care. The point was that Tony had destroyed so many lives over the course of the series that it could have been anyone, connected or not.

I also completely agree with Chase's sentiment that to show Tony's death would completely belittle it. Other than the instant gratification of seeing his violent demise, it would not be a powerful ending. That final scene, in my opinion, with such incredible attention to detail, is a masterpiece.
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I agree. My post was more for the "there was nobody who would have done it" crowd.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
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In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.

 
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Great breakdown, Nipsey. Plus, the way Butch responded to Tony's request about Phil's whereabouts left him in the clear. He didn't give the go-ahead or tell them where he was, but he said, "You do what you gotta do," meaning, "I can't agree to it, or give you information that leads to his death, but I won't stop you." It got Phil out of the way, while also clearing himself of any accountability in the death of a boss.

 
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It's a pretty tight shot and it stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
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There are so many clues in that final scene/final season that he's killed i don't know how it could be thought Chase left it open to interpretation. What other interpretation could there be?

 
I just think some like being contrarians, and some like to be beaten over the head with storylines and they don't like having to use their imaginations.

 
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
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:yes:

 
Nipsey said:
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It's a pretty tight shot and it stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
Click to expand...
There are so many clues in that final scene/final season that he's killed i don't know how it could be thought Chase left it open to interpretation. What other interpretation could there be?
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These things you call clues could just as well be red herrings.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Nipsey said:
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It's a pretty tight shot and it stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
Click to expand...
There are so many clues in that final scene/final season that he's killed i don't know how it could be thought Chase left it open to interpretation. What other interpretation could there be?
Click to expand...
These things you call clues could just as well be red herrings.
Click to expand...
Good lord. I assume I'm being fished?

 
Nipsey said:
jdoggydogg said:
Nipsey said:
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It's a pretty tight shot and it stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
Click to expand...
There are so many clues in that final scene/final season that he's killed i don't know how it could be thought Chase left it open to interpretation. What other interpretation could there be?
Click to expand...
These things you call clues could just as well be red herrings.
Click to expand...
Good lord. I assume I'm being fished?
Click to expand...
I'm not trolling, fishing, inciting, or any other synonym for those things.

There are long, painstakingly-written explanations that "prove" Tony is dead. I'm supposed to take these theories as fact? This is like saying the earth is 6,000 years old because it's in the bible.

 
I agree that it's supposed to be open to interpretation, but not so that the viewer can make up their mind as to what happened. I think it goes the other way - there was great care taken to leave the viewer absolutely NOT sure of what happened. No matter how many articles appear and how much justification there is one way or the other, the viewer is not in a position to be sure. Ever. It actually makes the show's arc even better.

 
jdoggydogg said:
Nipsey said:
jdoggydogg said:
Nipsey said:
Sarnoff said:
jdoggydogg said:
Somewhat forgotten is the fact the Chase may not even have an answer to the question, "Is Tony dead?" I understand the need for closure - that's expected. But Chase is smart enough to know that the answer to this question is just like the random nature of an aloof universe: unsure and ultimately lonely.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the ending is intentionally left open to personal interpretation. It's literally written on the screen in the scene itself. When Tony is picking the song to play on the tabletop jukebox, there's a closeup of the selections... he picks Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... however, the other song paired on the jukebox card is Journey's "Any Way You Want It". It's a pretty tight shot and it stays on the screen for more than just a brief moment. That kind of thing is absolutely done on purpose.
Click to expand...
There are so many clues in that final scene/final season that he's killed i don't know how it could be thought Chase left it open to interpretation. What other interpretation could there be?
Click to expand...
These things you call clues could just as well be red herrings.
Click to expand...
Good lord. I assume I'm being fished?
Click to expand...
I'm not trolling, fishing, inciting, or any other synonym for those things.

There are long, painstakingly-written explanations that "prove" Tony is dead. I'm supposed to take these theories as fact? This is like saying the earth is 6,000 years old because it's in the bible.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all these explanations that "prove" Tony was killed sound a lot like the explanations that the briefcase in Pulp Fiction really contained Marcellus Wallace's soul. I don't find many of them convincing enough to become canon. I generally equate them to the fan theories that "James Bond" is an alias or Ferris Bueller is a figment of Cameron's imagination or Neville Longbottom is the true hero of the Harry Potter stories.

 
Abraham said:
I agree that it's supposed to be open to interpretation, but not so that the viewer can make up their mind as to what happened. I think it goes the other way - there was great care taken to leave the viewer absolutely NOT sure of what happened. No matter how many articles appear and how much justification there is one way or the other, the viewer is not in a position to be sure. Ever. It actually makes the show's arc even better.
Click to expand...
This.

 
For the life of me I can't figure out how breaking bad is going to resolve in 8 episodes, and that is not even including Walt with a machine gun at Denny's. Gillian is too good:smart to rip off the sopranos, and it makes me even more interested.

 
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