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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread


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  • 3 weeks later...

Gotta say that Tony treated Pauli pretty poorly last three or four seasons. Pauli was always a loyal soldier, and had Tony showed him more respect, I don't think Pauli would have ever told the Ginny Sack joke to Johnny. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 6:55 PM, mr. furley said:

currently binging Sopranos on something called HBO2W

same, hopefully i can get through it all by friday afternoon. i can’t remember the last time i was excited to see a movie

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On 9/24/2021 at 7:22 PM, jdoggydogg said:

Gotta say that Tony treated Pauli pretty poorly last three or four seasons. Pauli was always a loyal soldier, and had Tony showed him more respect, I don't think Pauli would have ever told the Ginny Sack joke to Johnny. 

 

Paulie Walnuts was simply lucky most of his criminal career.

He was aligned with Johnny Boy Soprano, who was a rising star and a big earner and was allowed to run his crew almost independently from the micro management of the rest of the DiMeo Crime Family.

Then Tony took over the crew and he was the most intelligent and capable and the rising star of the entire operation.

Being loyal matters most when it's loyal to the people who always end up on top. Bobby was an idiot. He was, at times, kind in nature, but he was still an idiot. But he rose up because he was non threatening, was close to Junior and he married the sister of the boss. Had Bobby started off as an associate in the Aprile crew, and under someone like Richie or Vito or Ralphie, he could have gotten caught up in all that mess and gotten himself killed just for being near the clear trouble makers.

The other issue is it was shown over and over that Tony had a major insecurity about people who knew him from his past when he was not formidable. Like Feech or his old high school football coach. Paulie was around long enough where he was one of the older crew members who hazed Tony coming up and saw all of Tony's biggest mistakes.

Tony treated everyone poorly the last few seasons. In a room full of sociopaths, you can't treat people like the rest of "civil" society. Tony even said that to Christopher after rehab. Chris said he should go apologize to Silvio and others for what he said. Tony said don't do that. Then Christopher thought about it and said, you are right, I should just give them some cash instead.

A guy like Paulie is useful in a war. Most of the time, the problem becomes, you aren't in a war.

Tony needed more men like Gigi Cestone and Albert/Larry Barese. Most rational and not ruled by their egos and insecurities.

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On 9/24/2021 at 9:22 PM, jdoggydogg said:

Gotta say that Tony treated Pauli pretty poorly last three or four seasons. Pauli was always a loyal soldier, and had Tony showed him more respect, I don't think Pauli would have ever told the Ginny Sack joke to Johnny. 

 

On first watch, I thought similar but as I've digested the show a few times, I started to loathe Paulie.  He was a pawn for Johnny Sack later on and ultimately betrayed Tony.  Tony realized he had loose lips (talking too much) and was pretty dumb.  Good solider but more of a liability when the heat got turned up and you had to think on your feet.  

Edited by Major
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4 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

Paulie Walnuts was simply lucky most of his criminal career.

He was aligned with Johnny Boy Soprano, who was a rising star and a big earner and was allowed to run his crew almost independently from the micro management of the rest of the DiMeo Crime Family.

Then Tony took over the crew and he was the most intelligent and capable and the rising star of the entire operation.

Being loyal matters most when it's loyal to the people who always end up on top. Bobby was an idiot. He was, at times, kind in nature, but he was still an idiot. But he rose up because he was non threatening, was close to Junior and he married the sister of the boss. Had Bobby started off as an associate in the Aprile crew, and under someone like Richie or Vito or Ralphie, he could have gotten caught up in all that mess and gotten himself killed just for being near the clear trouble makers.

The other issue is it was shown over and over that Tony had a major insecurity about people who knew him from his past when he was not formidable. Like Feech or his old high school football coach. Paulie was around long enough where he was one of the older crew members who hazed Tony coming up and saw all of Tony's biggest mistakes.

Tony treated everyone poorly the last few seasons. In a room full of sociopaths, you can't treat people like the rest of "civil" society. Tony even said that to Christopher after rehab. Chris said he should go apologize to Silvio and others for what he said. Tony said don't do that. Then Christopher thought about it and said, you are right, I should just give them some cash instead.

A guy like Paulie is useful in a war. Most of the time, the problem becomes, you aren't in a war.

Tony needed more men like Gigi Cestone and Albert/Larry Barese. Most rational and not ruled by their egos and insecurities.

 

Excellent observations.

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4 hours ago, Major said:

 

On first watch, I thought similar but as I've digested the show a few times, I started to loathe Paulie.  He was a pawn for Johnny Sack later on and ultimately betrayed Tony.  Tony realized he had loose lips (talking too much) and was pretty dumb.  Good solider but more of a liability when the heat got turned up and you had to think on your feet.  

 

Sort of a chicken and the egg situation here: was Tony mean to Pauli because he deserved it, or did Pauli betray Tony because Tony was mean?

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On 9/24/2021 at 9:22 PM, jdoggydogg said:

Gotta say that Tony treated Pauli pretty poorly last three or four seasons. Pauli was always a loyal soldier, and had Tony showed him more respect, I don't think Pauli would have ever told the Ginny Sack joke to Johnny. 

It was Paulie’s own fault. He blew it in the Pine Barrens, and Tony knew it. Paulie cost them 5K and was the reason a friend of a close associate (the Russian) ended up (probably) dead. Tony was right to look sideways at Paulie after that. 

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10 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

It was Paulie’s own fault. He blew it in the Pine Barrens, and Tony knew it. Paulie cost them 5K and was the reason a friend of a close associate (the Russian) ended up (probably) dead. Tony was right to look sideways at Paulie after that. 

 

Well said.

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8 hours ago, jdoggydogg said:

 

Well said.


What is great about the scene is Tony immediately saw right through the BS, and Paulie instantly knew it.  Tony could tell that Chris' half-hearted shrug where he tried to confirm Paulie's version was nonsense, and Paulie could see that Tony didn't buy it, which is why he immediately said, "Look, Tone, I know I bleeped up..."  

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19 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

It was Paulie’s own fault.

 

There was a scene where Paulie is angry ( IIRC, it was about Ralph and money) and Tony pacifies him by saying he will go visit Paulie's mother.

That was Paulie's one true weakness, his mother.

Tony could have saved himself a ton of grief by occasionally going to see Paulie's mother with Paulie. While the NY Lupertazzi crew was too large for Johnny Sack or Big Carmine to do that, the NY DiMeo crew was very very small.

Paulie was a capo, and at one point, the underboss. Something Silvio pointed out many times is you want to keep your underlings happy. You can't have too much discontent.

This is where the Kevin Finnerty dream gets super interesting. You see Tony's old high school football coach yell at Tony about his ability to be a leader of men and the potential to be a good coach.

A good coach like Parcells always talks about how you cannot handle each player the same way. Phil Simms talks about this a lot in his time with Parcells.

Paulie was the type to need special handling. I suppose the argument should be whether his value was worth special handling. Earners like Ralph and Vito were not real enforcers. You do need some pure muscle in any crew.

The reality of the situation is that a very small crew like the DiMeo organization needs utility infielders. They need very versatile type goons on their roster. The Lupertazzi Family could hide someone like Paulie when they have hundreds of soldiers.

The largest DiMeo crew was the Barese crew. A fair argument could be made that Paulie might have been better being placed there where there was not as much pressure to be an individual earner. Whether Paulie and Albert The Parakeet could handle each other every day is another story.

Paulie was dumb but he was dumb in a savage way, which has some utility. Then again, he was the only one who didn't get married, so at least he's not totally stupid.

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17 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

There was a scene where Paulie is angry ( IIRC, it was about Ralph and money) and Tony pacifies him by saying he will go visit Paulie's mother.

That was Paulie's one true weakness, his mother.

Tony could have saved himself a ton of grief by occasionally going to see Paulie's mother with Paulie. While the NY Lupertazzi crew was too large for Johnny Sack or Big Carmine to do that, the NY DiMeo crew was very very small.

Paulie was a capo, and at one point, the underboss. Something Silvio pointed out many times is you want to keep your underlings happy. You can't have too much discontent.

This is where the Kevin Finnerty dream gets super interesting. You see Tony's old high school football coach yell at Tony about his ability to be a leader of men and the potential to be a good coach.

A good coach like Parcells always talks about how you cannot handle each player the same way. Phil Simms talks about this a lot in his time with Parcells.

Paulie was the type to need special handling. I suppose the argument should be whether his value was worth special handling. Earners like Ralph and Vito were not real enforcers. You do need some pure muscle in any crew.

The reality of the situation is that a very small crew like the DiMeo organization needs utility infielders. They need very versatile type goons on their roster. The Lupertazzi Family could hide someone like Paulie when they have hundreds of soldiers.

The largest DiMeo crew was the Barese crew. A fair argument could be made that Paulie might have been better being placed there where there was not as much pressure to be an individual earner. Whether Paulie and Albert The Parakeet could handle each other every day is another story.

Paulie was dumb but he was dumb in a savage way, which has some utility. Then again, he was the only one who didn't get married, so at least he's not totally stupid.


That was a rare moment of Tony showing great leadership.   He first warned Paulie not to lay a finger on Ralphie and reminded him who the boss is and that it is a business, and then in an instant took on a friendly tone and said he would visit Paulie's mother, ending the exchange on a positive note.   

As for Paulie needing special handling, the problem with a guy like him was nothing was ever good enough.  If just about anyone else had smelled Ade's panties, Tony would have laid into them like you wouldn't believe, but with Paulie, he used the "come on, man, you kinda need to apologize" tone.  And yet Paulie still pushed back and basically refused.   Pretty much everyone in Tony's inner circle got special treatment to a large degree (Sil, Chris before the relationship soured, Paulie prior to the Pine Barrens incident, Sal in S1, Tony B in S5).  Heck, even Artie was given more leeway than a lot of the mob guys when it came to Tony.  I can count on one hand the number of guys on the show who could have gotten away with the "shot up pancreas" line Artie threw in Tony's face in S6.  Tony, to his credit, knew Artie was really struggling and just lashing out. 

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Word to the wise: remember Pearl Harbor

signed up for a free week of Hulu because I also get HBO max. guess what’s not there?

Guess I’ll be pony up for one month of HBO. Cheaper than buying two movie tickets right?

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Anyone know of a good YouTube edit to run me through all the seasons as a primer?  Don’t have time to rewatch it all.  I’ve watched it twice through but it’s been a while. Would love to get reacquainted prior to watching the prequel.

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41 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Anyone know of a good YouTube edit to run me through all the seasons as a primer?  Don’t have time to rewatch it all.  I’ve watched it twice through but it’s been a while. Would love to get reacquainted prior to watching the prequel.

Link

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Thought the movie was good. Sure took a while to get into. Will watch it again this weekend. All the actors really nailed their predecessors, especially Livia and the second hour of Sil. Borderline creepy. 

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Yeah, thought it was fine. Certainly wasn't blown away.

I'm a fan of the show but not a huge diehard. So it's not like I was clamoring for it. 

Very solid to good performances all around. The kid isn't bad and Farmiga was good as always. Berenthal didn't have much to do, so I felt like he was kind of wasted in this. 

All the advertising was kinda misleading,  as I'm sure plenty of people will go into it thinking they're gonna see a Tony origin story. But obviously thats not what this was.  This was the more creative option (as opposed to them just showing us Tony robbing feech's card game or something) so give them credit for that. 

The young Sil came off as hokey to me, but that's the character,  so I still got a laugh out of it. The arms out walk gets me every time.

6.5/10 for me. I could see huge fans of the series liking it more

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Big "meh" for me.  

First 45 minutes were all over the place.  Liotta has never watched the series and said the movie would be great on it's own.  I don't think so.

Best parts were Silvio's toupee and Jun.

 

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1 hour ago, shuke said:

Big "meh" for me.  

First 45 minutes were all over the place.  Liotta has never watched the series and said the movie would be great on it's own.  I don't think so.

Best parts were Silvio's toupee and Jun.

 

shut up, you didn’t even know cheese curds were a thing

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Agree with the others who felt meh about the movie. Honestly if it wasn't based on the Sopranos I wouldn't have even watched it. Some of the casting and acting was good but thought the story really paled against the better mob movies.

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My friend told me it was bad — Indiana Jones 4 type bad (which he was a crew member on). 
 

Good casting and acting but no story that works. Said could be the first episode of a series maybe but not a movie. Said don’t watch. 
 

 

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Watched the second half again. Thought that was really good. First hour was quite slow and boring. 
 

- why was this a 2 hour movie and not a 6 hour series? Just the movie money? The storyline of Harold was just too quick and Tony and Dickie was just thrown together. They wanted you to understand why those two cared for each other so much but never really showed us. In a longer even one-time series it could have been explored further. 
 

- thought the acting was great. Outside of Ray Liotta. He was just cartoonish. First hour of Sil I thought wow this is a huge miss but that actor really nailed it after that. Livia was fantastic. So was Junior.  Can’t believe how good young Gandolfini was, he has a real future if he wants it. 
 

- I liked Johnny Boy more in the series than Jon Berenthal here. In the series he seemed to be more…alive? I dunno. Always seemed funny to me. Here he was just quiet and angry all the time. That’s on the writing but it seemed off to me. 

- Loved the twist at the end with June and it makes sense if you remember how poorly he took all the oral sex jokes. That man did not take to being laughed at.

- the whole thing just needed more time! Makes me disappointed because a really good story was there but it was rushed. 

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22 hours ago, shuke said:

Big "meh" for me.  

First 45 minutes were all over the place.  Liotta has never watched the series and said the movie would be great on it's own.  I don't think so.

Best parts were Silvio's toupee and Jun.

 

It was average at best.

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Maybe an unpopular opinion. I didn't watch The Sopranos to years later after the show ended. Wanna say 6-7 yrs after. 

Now the good thing. I thought for it's time it was an amazing show. Did a lot of personal hot topics a lot of other shows in that time period wouldn't tackle or try to touch. For that the show was amazing 

The acting especially James Gandolfini and Jamie-Lynn Sigler were incredible amongst others. 

Really good directing too. 

The ending was something less desirable and unfortunately we will never know what happened to Tony. If James had never died do you think Chase would've came back with another show and said Tony Survived that night? Now that he's dead they would need to come up with some reason he's not there. Possible change a script 

I'm glad for the prequel movie and his son playing young Tony 

I'm just not as pumped about this because after seeing the Italian Crime Mafia Show Gomorrah and the Movie between Seasons 4-5 I see The Sopranos as something great for its time but I think Gommorrah had really great acting and the directing overall is miles better. I thought the show was way more authentic (It's one of my pet peeves on these shows is authenticity) when it comes The Italian Mafia or Camorrah as they are known in Italy and Naples and thats big for me. The Gomorrah story is also based on true events and a lot of real people. 

Also I think it's been so long since the Sopranos were on and a lot of momentum was on their side that the Movie now just seems like it's forced and the "well we had to make it" type especially since James had died and all. I haven't watched it yet and am Intrigued and looks good but I'm not as excited about this movie as I would've been say even 5 or 6 yrs ago. 

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34 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Do you get any real insight or backstory on the DiMeo crime family?

 

I didn't feel like I did. It's basically a character study of Dickie Moltisanti and his relationships with his father, his family, and Tony's family. I also found it odd that in the movie they emphasized how much of an influence Dickie had on Tony while in the series I felt that Uncle Junior had a more important relationship with young Tony than Dickie did.

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1 hour ago, roarlions said:

 

I didn't feel like I did. It's basically a character study of Dickie Moltisanti and his relationships with his father, his family, and Tony's family. I also found it odd that in the movie they emphasized how much of an influence Dickie had on Tony while in the series I felt that Uncle Junior had a more important relationship with young Tony than Dickie did.

We don’t get to see what happens after the ending.  But likely he did have a big influence as well once dickie died.

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I thought it was pretty good, but not great.  Paulie’s character lifted weights and that was about the end of the similarities btw him and the old Paulie.  The guy that played Silvio did well but it felt like he was trying a little too hard.  Junior was just ok.  I thought Michael Gandolfini was incredibly authentic and Dickie Moltisanti was a great character too.  And to be fair, those characters are legendary, I can’t imagine trying to recast any of them.  

Using Christopher to narrate the movie felt like an odd choice to me too.  I like Imperioli but it just struck me as odd.  I never understood why Tony killed him that way- I guess it confirmed it was a murder in Chris’ eyes and Tony really was a sociopath.  That always bugged me about the series, after everything Chris & Tony did for each other.  The only thing that makes sense to me is Tony harbored some kind of internal resentment for the Moltisantis after the way Dickie left him behind.  

All in all I’d say it felt like an ok movie, but it was just that.  It didn’t feel like The Sopranos.  That being said I’m here if they want to start a new series with Gandolfini.  The prestige TV format is way better for this story imo.  

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8 hours ago, roarlions said:

 

 It's basically a character study of Dickie Moltisanti and his relationships with his father, his family, and Tony's family. I also found it odd that in the movie they emphasized how much of an influence Dickie had on Tony while in the series I felt that Uncle Junior had a more important relationship with young Tony than Dickie did.

 

It was a backdoor pilot for Leslie Odom's character. If The Sopranos is Sons Of Anarchy, then David Chase's next HBO project will be his Mayans MC.

I found the narrative to be brilliant but the storytelling to be too condensed. This should have been a 6 episode short series. But I could see Chase wanting to avoid the inevitable pressure by HBO suits to just create a Tony Soprano prequel series, which is what they probably desperately wanted without a current "flagship show" to anchor their programming.

If you listen to most of Chase's interviews during the Sopranos original run, he was clearly angry with the audience in general. Much how Joss Whedon resented his Buffy the Vampire Slayer fanbase for embracing Spike instead of seeing him as a pure monster. Many Saints is Chase realizing his audience in general simply didn't understand what he was trying to say. There is a clear arrogance by "artists" with fame and money, much like Christopher Nolan refuses to accept that most people can't hear the dialogue in his movies anymore and just decided to blame them for the complaints.

Chase had Ray Liotta's 2nd character arc basically pick up a shovel and pour it over the audience as the surrogate Dr Melfi..

"Wanting" or coveting was the downfall of all the major characters. Tony wanted his mother's love and approval. Artie wanted to be a wiseguy. Carmela wanted a contradiction, to be independent but not have to suffer the toils to gain independence. Christopher wanted badly to be a made guy and to be a mobster. Junior wanted respect from others that he couldn't find for himself within himself. Adriana wanted her own night club but didn't want the implied terror that came with having it be a haven for mobsters. Janice wanted Livia's house and her share of the inheritance so she didn't have to work.

Only Barbara escaped, because she desired nothing but to be distant and be free and wanted nothing of the lifestyle, the money, the pain, the regret, or any of the past.

The other sticking point is all the female characters in the Sopranos universe are some variation of Chase's own mother.  All the women are narcissists or carry at least one core trait of Livia's insanity.

Even if Dickie had lived, Tony would have still been doomed.

In therapy for people trying to separate from narcissists like Livia and like Chase's mother, they teach people to understand that the behavior of others that is toxic and made you suffer has nothing to do with you. It's a disease and affliction of the person in front of you, they are merely acting out their rage and destructive behavior in a mirror without realizing it's a window, often to someone without the means  to defend themselves.

Nothing was more brutal than having the school counselor asking young Tony wanted he liked and what he wanted and what he hoped for and all he could talk about was making his mother happy. And the counselor knew Tony was lost and would always be lost. No one ever asked Tony wanted he wanted or what he needed or what was important to him, they only inflicted their personal self hatred outwards toward him simply because he was there.

Tony Soprano is merely a proxy for David Chase to release the guilt he carried for failing his own narcissist mother. But that's the thing, no matter what you do, you will always fail a narcissist in their eyes. You are just their supply and nothing more.

There's a reason Tony rages in Dr Melfi's office about AJ fainting and passing out and how he passed on his defective broken genes into his son and doomed him. Everything Chase hated about his own psychotic narcissist of a mother, much like Livia, would always be a part of him.

What Chase had to stop "wanting" was the faint glimmer of hope that the poison in his mother would never be within him as well. This is the great tragedy of Tony Soprano, even after his worst enemy died, she still have control over him and his life in every possible way until his own end.

A man breaks when he believes hope has died.

But a man finds peace when he understands hope never existed for him in the first place.

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I've watched the series through probably 6 times. I actually started another rewatch a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the movie and am on S3 E3 (Livia just died and Christopher got his button). 

I couldn't get through 20 minutes. I thought the acting was comically bad. Distractingly bad. 

It truly felt like I was watching one of those extended SNL preproduced movie parody skits. 

Edited by RUSF18
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4 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

I've watched the series through probably 6 times. I actually started another rewatch a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the movie and am on S3 E3 (Livia just died and Christopher got his button). 

I couldn't get through 20 minutes. I thought the acting was comically bad. Distractingly bad. 

It truly felt like I was watching one of those extended SNL preproduced movie parody skits. 

marone

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I enjoyed revisiting with the characters, being back in the Sopranos universe again.  But overall it just had no direction. 

And apparently Junior was a foot taller when he was a young man.  Corey Stoll plays him and is only 6'2" IRL but he seems to be the tallest person in every scene he's in, and I never felt like Jun in the show was a big guy so that to me stuck out as a weird casting choice

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On 10/3/2021 at 9:39 AM, roarlions said:

I also found it odd that in the movie they emphasized how much of an influence Dickie had on Tony while in the series I felt that Uncle Junior had a more important relationship with young Tony than Dickie did.

 

:goodposting:

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2 hours ago, RUSF18 said:

I've watched the series through probably 6 times. I actually started another rewatch a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the movie and am on S3 E3 (Livia just died and Christopher got his button). 

I couldn't get through 20 minutes. I thought the acting was comically bad. Distractingly bad. 

It truly felt like I was watching one of those extended SNL preproduced movie parody skits. 

Similar reaction. Felt like a parody of the show. 
 

Think Travolta “Gotti” movie compared to the Assante, HBO “Gotti”. 

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