Or maybe it's just I'd like to see Christopher on screen more then ten seconds in the last 9 episodes. Junior's Asian sidekick has had more airtime. It's a joke.This will all be dragged out and I don't imagine much will have happened by the end of this. Why? So that in five years they can roll out a Sorprano's trilogy of movies.They'd all have to be idiots not to see how they can clean up if they save some juice for a movie run.It would be cool if Tony ended up in jail at the end of the tv run. Then in five years we get a trilogy of movies about Tony getting out of jail and reestablishing his place in the family. Maybe butting heads with Christopher who took his place as head of the family while he was in jail. Gold baby.Great post.I'm convinced the people that think this episode sucked just don't get what the show is all about.Maybe I'm wrong but I think the point was not that he is addicted. It's that he has some instability problems. We saw it in the discussions with Melfi. He knows he has destructive personality traits but he's not ready to deal with it. I think this stems from discontent with the family. None of his capos are pulling their weight, he has issues with Phil who is now firmly in control, and he personally seems to have taken a bit of a step back from the day to day action.A couple of seasons ago, Melfi likened his personality to that of a shark - constant motion. Here he is having made conscious steps to remove himself and things are spiraling out of control. He's a big kid though and so he is "acting up." He is going down a very destructive path and alienating himself from the few people that he has always counted on - Hesh, his capos, and even Carm. IMO he is displaying a lot of the same traits his mother did. He is really coming across as a selfish ****, much more than in the past. In previous seasons, he was ruthless, no doubt, but it was always business except with Janice. Now, it seems he is a #### just to be a #### to everyone. IMO Gambling is a symptom, not the problem (which is often the case).He has always gambled but they never showed him gambling on sports. At his age you dont just all of a sudden become addicted to gambling on Sports. Just really seems forced.You would rather have more focus Junior doing nothing?lolNot only has it never come up, they took time to hammer it over our head that Tony thought gambling was stupid.Guess it's supposed to show his downfall.
He has always gambled. It wasn't a problem because he was winning. That's why he brought up "a real bad streak", it's catching up with him.
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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
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jhib
Footballguy
Sounds like Carm should call in those camp counselors to take Tony along with little Vito.Maybe I'm wrong but I think the point was not that he is addicted. It's that he has some instability problems. We saw it in the discussions with Melfi. He knows he has destructive personality traits but he's not ready to deal with it. I think this stems from discontent with the family. None of his capos are pulling their weight, he has issues with Phil who is now firmly in control, and he personally seems to have taken a bit of a step back from the day to day action.A couple of seasons ago, Melfi likened his personality to that of a shark - constant motion. Here he is having made conscious steps to remove himself and things are spiraling out of control. He's a big kid though and so he is "acting up." He is going down a very destructive path and alienating himself from the few people that he has always counted on - Hesh, his capos, and even Carm. IMO he is displaying a lot of the same traits his mother did. He is really coming across as a selfish ****, much more than in the past. In previous seasons, he was ruthless, no doubt, but it was always business except with Janice. Now, it seems he is a #### just to be a #### to everyone. IMO Gambling is a symptom, not the problem (which is often the case).He has always gambled but they never showed him gambling on sports. At his age you dont just all of a sudden become addicted to gambling on Sports. Just really seems forced.You would rather have more focus Junior doing nothing?lol
Not only has it never come up, they took time to hammer it over our head that Tony thought gambling was stupid.
Guess it's supposed to show his downfall.He has always gambled. It wasn't a problem because he was winning. That's why he brought up "a real bad streak", it's catching up with him.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I'd watch it. But I think there is going to be a helluva a lot of action in the last episodes ending with a lot of people dying. Not just T going to jail. Wishful thinking maybe...
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
nothing like a dump in the shower.
I wish everyone here could have herd/seen my wife's expression when that happened. Freaking classic
I wish everyone here could have herd/seen my wife's expression when that happened. Freaking classic
Wheelhouse
Footballguy
Great episode. I keep trying to piece together how this thing is gonna end. We talked prior about how Tony might leave Carm penniless. What if Carm leaves Tony penniless?
So Hesh's girlfriend lady, you've got to think Tony had something to do with that, but it was never determined only inferred. What does killing her do to help alleviate any money owed to Hesh? Or was it just a way of getting back at him?
So Hesh's girlfriend lady, you've got to think Tony had something to do with that, but it was never determined only inferred. What does killing her do to help alleviate any money owed to Hesh? Or was it just a way of getting back at him?
shadyridr
Footballguy
I think by Tony bringing Hesh the cash it showed that he had nothing to do with her death.
pricklypete
Footballguy
That's how I took it also.
I rewound that twice. Phil looks at his watch "finish that up theres no eating food in my car."He is great
corpcow
Footballguy
Fixed.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Or maybe it's just I'd like to see Christopher on screen more then ten seconds in the last 9 episodes. Junior's Asian sidekick has had more airtime. It's a joke.This will all be dragged out and I don't imagine much will have happened by the end of this. Why? So that in five years they can roll out a Sorprano's trilogy of movies.They'd all have to be idiots not to see how they can clean up if they save some juice for a movie run.It would be cool if Tony ended up in jail at the end of the tv run. Then in five years we get a trilogy of movies about Tony getting out of jail and reestablishing his place in the family. Maybe butting heads with Christopher who took his place as head of the family while he was in jail. Gold baby.Great post.I'm convinced the people that think this episode sucked just don't get what the show is all about.Maybe I'm wrong but I think the point was not that he is addicted. It's that he has some instability problems. We saw it in the discussions with Melfi. He knows he has destructive personality traits but he's not ready to deal with it. I think this stems from discontent with the family. None of his capos are pulling their weight, he has issues with Phil who is now firmly in control, and he personally seems to have taken a bit of a step back from the day to day action.A couple of seasons ago, Melfi likened his personality to that of a shark - constant motion. Here he is having made conscious steps to remove himself and things are spiraling out of control. He's a big kid though and so he is "acting up." He is going down a very destructive path and alienating himself from the few people that he has always counted on - Hesh, his capos, and even Carm. IMO he is displaying a lot of the same traits his mother did. He is really coming across as a selfish ****, much more than in the past. In previous seasons, he was ruthless, no doubt, but it was always business except with Janice. Now, it seems he is a #### just to be a #### to everyone. IMO Gambling is a symptom, not the problem (which is often the case).He has always gambled but they never showed him gambling on sports. At his age you dont just all of a sudden become addicted to gambling on Sports. Just really seems forced.You would rather have more focus Junior doing nothing?lolNot only has it never come up, they took time to hammer it over our head that Tony thought gambling was stupid.Guess it's supposed to show his downfall.
He has always gambled. It wasn't a problem because he was winning. That's why he brought up "a real bad streak", it's catching up with him.
skrzycki, I "get" that PART of what the show is about is Tony's psyche - see my posts throughout. That part of it is one of my fave parts of the show. This episode, however, did not do much to give insight into Tony's psyche, nor did it give much for the "gangster storyline" folks. This episode was the worst of the season so far, IMO.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Me too.I think Tony bringing him the money showed he had sympathy for Hesh losing his GF, but it was still all about the business.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Or maybe it's just I'd like to see Christopher on screen more then ten seconds in the last 9 episodes. Junior's Asian sidekick has had more airtime. It's a joke.This will all be dragged out and I don't imagine much will have happened by the end of this. Why? So that in five years they can roll out a Sorprano's trilogy of movies.They'd all have to be idiots not to see how they can clean up if they save some juice for a movie run.It would be cool if Tony ended up in jail at the end of the tv run. Then in five years we get a trilogy of movies about Tony getting out of jail and reestablishing his place in the family. Maybe butting heads with Christopher who took his place as head of the family while he was in jail. Gold baby.Great post.I'm convinced the people that think this episode sucked just don't get what the show is all about.Maybe I'm wrong but I think the point was not that he is addicted. It's that he has some instability problems. We saw it in the discussions with Melfi. He knows he has destructive personality traits but he's not ready to deal with it. I think this stems from discontent with the family. None of his capos are pulling their weight, he has issues with Phil who is now firmly in control, and he personally seems to have taken a bit of a step back from the day to day action.A couple of seasons ago, Melfi likened his personality to that of a shark - constant motion. Here he is having made conscious steps to remove himself and things are spiraling out of control. He's a big kid though and so he is "acting up." He is going down a very destructive path and alienating himself from the few people that he has always counted on - Hesh, his capos, and even Carm. IMO he is displaying a lot of the same traits his mother did. He is really coming across as a selfish ****, much more than in the past. In previous seasons, he was ruthless, no doubt, but it was always business except with Janice. Now, it seems he is a #### just to be a #### to everyone. IMO Gambling is a symptom, not the problem (which is often the case).He has always gambled but they never showed him gambling on sports. At his age you dont just all of a sudden become addicted to gambling on Sports. Just really seems forced.You would rather have more focus Junior doing nothing?lolNot only has it never come up, they took time to hammer it over our head that Tony thought gambling was stupid.Guess it's supposed to show his downfall.He has always gambled. It wasn't a problem because he was winning. That's why he brought up "a real bad streak", it's catching up with him.skrzycki, I "get" that PART of what the show is about is Tony's psyche - see my posts throughout. That part of it is one of my fave parts of the show. This episode, however, did not do much to give insight into Tony's psyche, nor did it give much for the "gangster storyline" folks. This episode was the worst of the season so far, IMO.
It was a bad episode because it was a poorly done episode especially any of the parts dealing with Tony's gambling problem. For instance, there is absolutely no way someone could wager $18,000 grand on some harness race a minute before post and it wouldn't affect the line.and for whoever asked, Tony has a bunch of offshore accounts which they made reference to when he got the $100,000 that was suppose to go to Vito's wife.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Doesn't he still have millions tied up with the Russians getting cleaned? It's not like a bank account where you can simply draw your money out.I am sure Tony is currently living off of whatever is brought to him each week. He had a habit the last few years of killing off his earners - and Vito was a good earner. I am sure he is feeling a week to week draw deficit, not a lack of his overall worth. His business is built on making more and more money, not treading water.Or maybe it's just I'd like to see Christopher on screen more then ten seconds in the last 9 episodes. Junior's Asian sidekick has had more airtime. It's a joke.This will all be dragged out and I don't imagine much will have happened by the end of this. Why? So that in five years they can roll out a Sorprano's trilogy of movies.They'd all have to be idiots not to see how they can clean up if they save some juice for a movie run.It would be cool if Tony ended up in jail at the end of the tv run. Then in five years we get a trilogy of movies about Tony getting out of jail and reestablishing his place in the family. Maybe butting heads with Christopher who took his place as head of the family while he was in jail. Gold baby.Great post.I'm convinced the people that think this episode sucked just don't get what the show is all about.Maybe I'm wrong but I think the point was not that he is addicted. It's that he has some instability problems. We saw it in the discussions with Melfi. He knows he has destructive personality traits but he's not ready to deal with it. I think this stems from discontent with the family. None of his capos are pulling their weight, he has issues with Phil who is now firmly in control, and he personally seems to have taken a bit of a step back from the day to day action.A couple of seasons ago, Melfi likened his personality to that of a shark - constant motion. Here he is having made conscious steps to remove himself and things are spiraling out of control. He's a big kid though and so he is "acting up." He is going down a very destructive path and alienating himself from the few people that he has always counted on - Hesh, his capos, and even Carm. IMO he is displaying a lot of the same traits his mother did. He is really coming across as a selfish ****, much more than in the past. In previous seasons, he was ruthless, no doubt, but it was always business except with Janice. Now, it seems he is a #### just to be a #### to everyone. IMO Gambling is a symptom, not the problem (which is often the case).He has always gambled but they never showed him gambling on sports. At his age you dont just all of a sudden become addicted to gambling on Sports. Just really seems forced.You would rather have more focus Junior doing nothing?lolNot only has it never come up, they took time to hammer it over our head that Tony thought gambling was stupid.Guess it's supposed to show his downfall.
He has always gambled. It wasn't a problem because he was winning. That's why he brought up "a real bad streak", it's catching up with him.It was a bad episode because it was a poorly done episode especially any of the parts dealing with Tony's gambling problem. For instance, there is absolutely no way someone could wager $18,000 grand on some harness race a minute before post and it wouldn't affect the line.and for whoever asked, Tony has a bunch of offshore accounts which they made reference to when he got the $100,000 that was suppose to go to Vito's wife.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
The scenes between Tony and Carmela are always a highlight of the show. Both are tremendous actors. I agree with the above that the gambling wasn't the problem, just a symptom. Things are going downhill quickly for Tony and coming back strong doesn't seem like a viable alternative at this point. THis will not end well.
The Gator
Footballguy
Didn't Hesh explain that Tony goes through money rather quick? I'd bet he has almost nothing left.
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Capella
Footballguy
I wouldn't go that far.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Yeah, goes through it quick, but it's also pretty evident that he has some in reserve either offshore, with the Russians, sitting in the bird food, etc. He got the 100,000 for Vito's wife quickly and then Hesch his $200,000 grand when he really wanted to.and they also made reference to the fact that the guy who took over from Vito in the construction area is only making a third of what Vito was.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
So the real question is, did Tony have Hesh's girlfriend killed? It was sort of implied through Tony's actions (dropping the money off and leaving immediately, rather than staying to console a friend, and his cold stare as he left), and probably meant to be left open to interpretation.
Gonzo Stokes
Footballguy
I agree, and I think his repeated assertions to Carmela that she will not end up like Ginny Sac is him trying to say something enough times to make himself believe it.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
IMO, that was Hesh setting himself up for Tony not being able to pay him back. Hesh would NEVER have given Tony 200G if he didn't have a darn good idea that Tony was getting some big money back very shortly.I'd bet Tony has a TON of money in reserve. It is just not easily accessible.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Yeah...I'd also bet that whoever Tony gambles with could get stiffed at any time....that's actually another thing...who in their right mind would take bets that large from Tony. You have to think if he gets down enough that he'll either stiff you or come after you.
Wooderson
Fight The Power
I didn't catch that Tony paid him the full 200. I thought he was just dropping off the vig.
shadyridr
Footballguy
In a shopping bag?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Yeah I didn't catch that either - kinda distracted right at the end of the show. Was listening, but not watching intently. Did he hand him a billfold or a bag? If a billfold, it was obviously not 200g. If a bag, it was the whole nut.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It was a bag.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
It was a medium Bloomingadale's bag.
pricklypete
Footballguy
If Tony would have killed the girl, he never would have paid up.The reason Tony paid up when he did was in effect to let Hesh know he had nothing to do with the death.
Did they ever mention how she died? Seemed to me it just happened while she was sleeping. If so, I don't think there's any way Tony would have been involved, nor is there any way Hesh would think Tony did it. Otherwise this would be the first murder in the history of the show that was committed in such a relatively non-violent manner.I thought Tony bringing Hesh the money was more to show his callousness towards a friend who just lost someone close to him. It's a continuation of the rifts developing between Tony and the members of his families. First it was Bobby, then Christopher, then Paulie. This week it was Hesh, and Carmela. I'm expecting a rift between Sil, Meadow and AJ in the next couple of weeks.
Alias
Footballguy
There probably is not enough time left in the series for this to go far, but my interpretation of AJ telling his GF that he is going to be somebody, he made manager in 4 months, pretty soon he will own his own pizza joint, then he will own multiple restaurants was not enough to convince her to stay with him. Now that he sees he cannot get what he wants by going the "straight route" perhaps he will see the allure and power of going the route of his father. But like I said this is probably a reach and there is not enough time left in the series for anything to really play out...
The Gator
Footballguy
I'm not so sure.
Tony- "Hesh, i need 200K
Hesh- "No"
Tony- "ORLY"
Hesh- :deadbanana:
The Gator
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I agree with those who are saying that the gambling angle feels forced. HBO is incredible at character develpment and depth. It's one of the reasons that some people who are more casual Soprano fans will watch an episode and find it "boring" - often times, I've found, they feel bored because they are not as invest in the characters as people who have watched it religiously. When you're as into it as most here, you're simply interested in seeing where each character goes, what they're thinking, and ultimately, in most cases, what will be their downfall. "Action" is not always required.
I've always felt that Tony was not a gambler. People here have said that he has "always gambled" but I don't agree with that. He'd play some table games at the casino he gave to Tony B., and on some occassions he'd play hearts and whatnot. But he never sat in the big poker games. He never laid a serious sports bet in the entire show, if I recall correctly. Gambling, simply, has never been a hobby of his. If I'm mistaken in this, please let me know - but, and I've referenced this before, I remember a flashback Tony had about when he saw his father beat up the local butcher, and later his father explained that it was because he (the butcher) owed him money and could not pay. He then lectured Tony about the vices of gambling and said "You should never gamble."
In my mind, Tony has always been the lender and the collector - the guy who capitalizes on the gambling habbits of others. He was always in control, on that side of the gambling dynamic. While I understand that character definitions are not so rigid and are able to change and grow, and this is clearly a sign that Tony is losing control over things, it really does seem like an out of the blue change in what I thought was one of Tony's core values.
I could be wrong, but that's always been my opinion on Tony and gambling.
I've always felt that Tony was not a gambler. People here have said that he has "always gambled" but I don't agree with that. He'd play some table games at the casino he gave to Tony B., and on some occassions he'd play hearts and whatnot. But he never sat in the big poker games. He never laid a serious sports bet in the entire show, if I recall correctly. Gambling, simply, has never been a hobby of his. If I'm mistaken in this, please let me know - but, and I've referenced this before, I remember a flashback Tony had about when he saw his father beat up the local butcher, and later his father explained that it was because he (the butcher) owed him money and could not pay. He then lectured Tony about the vices of gambling and said "You should never gamble."
In my mind, Tony has always been the lender and the collector - the guy who capitalizes on the gambling habbits of others. He was always in control, on that side of the gambling dynamic. While I understand that character definitions are not so rigid and are able to change and grow, and this is clearly a sign that Tony is losing control over things, it really does seem like an out of the blue change in what I thought was one of Tony's core values.
I could be wrong, but that's always been my opinion on Tony and gambling.
Most single mothers without a lot of money would probably jump at the chance to marry a guy who was ambitious enough to become night manager at a pizza parlor. I thought she was turning him down because she didn't want to get even more involved with his family. And I'm wondering if that might have a negative effect on Tony and AJ's relationship.
Minotauro
Footballguy
I think Hesh said in that conversation that besides assets, Tony only has "6" left. The other guy says, "but he's a boss." Then Hesh says the in one hand and out the other line.
Hound_Adams
Footballguy
All during the scene where the girl breaks up with AJ I just kept thinking "What's 2 miles long and has an IQ of 73?"
prefontaine
Footballguy
I'm not sure I'm getting how everyone sees this change as out of the blue. Tony's gambling was hinted at last week. And more importantly, his loss of control seems to have been building since he was shot. Chris choosing to do movies. Phil clipping one of his capos. These are things that in the past, he never would have let happen idly. But the new version of himself - the one post hospital stay - can't figure out what he is supposed to do. The new Tony is having a hard time transitioning to being an emperor rather than a gladiator.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I think this has ALWAYS been AJ's deal.The entire series' worth of AJ is enough to play this out - I think AJ will kill someone before this series is out.
Kraft...
Footballguy
The AJ charachter has got some pretty nice trim in the series, that cute blonde and this latest chick both pretty smokin
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I'm aware it came out last week. I still think it's "out of the blue" in the general scheme of things.Chris getting into movies and Phil clipping Vito are examples of Tony losing control externally - Tony drastically (IMO) changing his habbits on gamblin to the extremey point he has is a very serious drastic internal change.
Kraft...
Footballguy
Out of the blue in terms of the series not just this season. In prior seasons his gambling was miniscule.
badger
Footballguy
What was his GF's comment about Carm's spec house being "all that for just two of them and a baby?" Inferring that the people can't afford that...did Carm's cousin Brian buy the house, I didn't follow that scene very well. You bring up a good point, I think at the time of her comments, she realized she didn't want to get more involved with the "family."wildbill said:
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Is this sarcasm?wildbill said:
Not at all. I know the super models that most of the guys on this board date would never settle for a guy with such a lowly job, but in the real world where poor girls wonder how they're going to feed their babies, a man with enough dedication and determination to work his way up to a managerial position in any industry could be a life saver.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Was anybody else upset that vito's kid didn't scoop the poop and toss it at those jerks? I was waiting for that...but he just stood there like a dope.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I thought the episdoe stunk. There are only a few episodes left man, get on with it.
The best line of the episode, IMO, was when Tony was talking to the widow about money and relocating and he says something and then chimes in, "and everything that entrails.
The best line of the episode, IMO, was when Tony was talking to the widow about money and relocating and he says something and then chimes in, "and everything that entrails.
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The Noid
Avoid me!
Yeah, I thought he was going to fling it with his foot, when he stepped in it.
