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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread


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anyway, i've decided that tony is dead.

He is not dead. IF tony was going to die in this show, they would have showed it and let the viewers see him die. He is sitting there looking, waiting for something to happen. But it doesn't. He is more than alive, but the ending sure had my gripping the couch, as I was waiting for someone to come in and try to pop him. Glad no one did.
Your logic is lacking.
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Tony got whacked. The more I think about it the more it becomes the only thing that makes sense after the conversation on the boat with Bobby.If he didn't get whacked, why the 20 seconds of black screen? The credits would have started immediately. The 20 seconds of black was everyone reacting to the shooting which we obviously can't see since we were seeing it through Tony's eyes.

We're not looking "through his eyes" at that moment, the last shot is a shot of Tony, not from his POV.
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Another thing I didn't see mentioned was AJ's session with his therapist after the fire. When he was talking about the fire destroying his car and him being happy about it and how cool it was that his seat melted, I wonder if they were trying to show us that AJ is turning into his dad more and more? Seemed to me that his enjoyment of the fire was borderline sociopath. May be reaching here. All in all too much AJ in this episode but I'm ok with the ending.

I read this scene a different way.If you remember back to the first season, Tony was in deep depression. Sluggish, slow, slept in all the time, generally complacent about life. Then, Uncle Junior put the hit out on him, and Tony dodged death at the hands of those two black hitmen (one of them Tony died in the melee, the other escaped).If you recall, the very next session, Tony said something about how he fought "with every fiber of my being" or something like that - he realized thta there was no doubt in him about wanting to live. It sorta shocked him back into living.I viewed AJ talking about the burning SUV as the same kind thing. He noted, with a smile, that he watched his leather seats melt when he "had just been in them a few seconds ago."
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This whole last season came down to those that like the symbolism and those that don't.

I think it sucked because it had almost no humor, almost no excitement and a lot of wallowing in self pity.

Other who like reading between the lines and interpret the symbilism thought it was a good season.

To each his own, I guess.

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sucked

Edge, there's a guy earlier in this thread that nailed it, but I'll give my version of why it wasn't as bad an ending as you thought:Tony died while eating onion rings. That's why we snapped to pitch black and silence. Do you remember the conversation Bobby and Tony had in the boat where Bobby says something like "I suppose it's fast like one moment your there and the next it's lights out"......that's not even close to the quote but it's the idea. Then, after Bobby died, Tony remembered that conversation. At first I felt like everyone else, but when I remembered that conversation I realized, and believe fully, that Tony died and that's what we got from his perspective. One minute eating rings, next lights out.
so you think he died. :thumbup:
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what happened ?

Nothing. You know what's better than nothing? ANYTHING.Final episode of a series we've all devoted so much of our own time in, and they spend half of the show on two of the worst characters in the series (AJ and Janice). Really disappointed they decided that it was important to wrap up that oh-so-interesting AJ story. Oh wait, that's right, they didn't wrap it up. He's still a whiney little #####, they just gave him a new job. Greaaaaat.
:thumbup:...you get Tony's crew wacking Phil with the FBI guy's help, Carlo flipping and it looking like Tony will end up in court, and a cliffhanger where Tony may or may not have been killed....really what more do people want.
You just mentioned two things, one of which(Carlo) was just referenced twice, as a reason to love this eppisode. So three minutes of Phil and a couple mentions of Carlo made this great? :loco: As far as the ending, I get it However the build up to it (the last 20min) could have bee way better.
Then you don't get it.
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Most reasonably good story telling has a beginning, middle, and end unless you're really gunning for an artistic or obtuse structure simply for the sake of it...and that's what I think people are reacting to...there was no end, at least not in any storytelling sense...those of you who are imagining an ending have conjured that up to fill the void that is the lack of an ending...As I said last night, no ending may make for nice water cooler discussion, but it also leaves viewers feeling incredibly unsatisfied...and in my personal opinion is a mark against the legacy of the show...

This is what I don't get...you can make the argument that every major storyline ended last night. Tony made his peace with Junior and Sil, he got Janice out of his hair since the NYC crew was going to apy her off for Bobby's death, Meadow made "it" as a lawyer, AJ got his act together and seems happy, Phil got his from the NYC crew with help from the FBI guy who tony gave the Arab info to, Tony and Paulie came to terms with each other, it looks like Tony's more powerful than ever in the mob world, and Tony looks like he's on the FBI hotseat (hell there was also a really entertaining scene between Tony and AJ's phsycologist). Really, what more did people want besides an all out bloodbath between the NYC and Jersey crew.
Less AJ. Way too much time spent on that whiny tool and the whole deal with his SUV catching on fire because he parked on some leaves was incredibly stupid. Though I didn't mind the ending. At first I was like WTF? but the more I think about it the more I like it.
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The more I think about it, the more I think Tony got whacked. Remember how Phil got whacked? Waving bye bye to his grandkids. Never saw it coming. His last image was a happy one. Just like Tony.

I originally was leaning on thinking that Tony got whacked. However, if this was the case who gave the order? NY stated things were over from that standpoint.
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I mean, this is obviously just my interpretation, but this morning I am so certain that Tony is dead that I feel foolish for not immediately concluding it last night.

Chase simply chose to show Tony's death in a different manner - he even TOLD you he was going to do it by flashing back to his conversation with Bobby about how you "never hear it coming." Tony is NOT going to be shown dead like every other cast member who has died in the past - that's because Tony is different, he's the pinnacle of importance to the show.

I mean, why have the show end that way? The sudden cut, the blackness? There are two possible reasons:

1) To illustrate Tony's death but do so in a manner that doesn't lower him to the rest of the corpses that have been showed throught the entire series.

2) To imply Tony's death to such an extent to be purely #### with your viewers.

Call me crazy, but I really don't think Chase is interested in finishing off his masterpiece with a #### you.

Tony's dead. If you assume that for a minute, then everything falls into place and makes sense.

And by the way, the fact that people need to see Tony in a pile of blood with a hole in his head to know that he's dead, the fact that the difference between people hating the ending and loving it is a "HEY LOOK TONY IS REALLY DEAD" shot is probably what Chase is implying in "Made in America." We need everything beaten over our head these days or we aren't satisfied - Chase is, in my opinion, making a comment on the American backlash to this finale that he probably saw coming.

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The more I think about it, the more I think Tony got whacked. Remember how Phil got whacked? Waving bye bye to his grandkids. Never saw it coming. His last image was a happy one. Just like Tony.

I originally was leaning on thinking that Tony got whacked. However, if this was the case who gave the order? NY stated things were over from that standpoint.
Look at the NJ family with Tony gone. Who is next in line? Patsy? Friggin PAULIE? The family has been decimated. Management is gone. The family is in shambles. NY can have its way with NJ now. There is literally nobody standing in their way with Tony gone.NY uses NJ to get Phil whacked and out of the way, and then when NJ lets their guard down, they take out the single most important player in the NJ mob.
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The more I think about it, the more I think Tony got whacked. Remember how Phil got whacked? Waving bye bye to his grandkids. Never saw it coming. His last image was a happy one. Just like Tony.

I originally was leaning on thinking that Tony got whacked. However, if this was the case who gave the order? NY stated things were over from that standpoint.
Look at the NJ family with Tony gone. Who is next in line? Patsy? Friggin PAULIE? The family has been decimated. Management is gone. The family is in shambles. NY can have its way with NJ now. There is literally nobody standing in their way with Tony gone.NY uses NJ to get Phil whacked and out of the way, and then when NJ lets their guard down, they take out the single most important player in the NJ mob.
;)
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As a stand alone episode I thought it was really good. As a series finale, however, I thought it was pretty lame and obvious they are leaving wiggle room for a movie or three in about two years after all the actors made ####ty movies and TV shows.

Sil is alive. Paulie is the same as he ever was. Dude who killed Phil and Benny can be good characters.

What was resolved? We have some closure w/ Tony and Junior I guess. Phil is dead and Tony has the same relationship w/ NY now as he has had before, except there is a weasel in charge there now.

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All this discussion about "Tony's dead" or "Tony's not dead" is exactly what Chase wanted. He's always been about leaving the resolution to conflicts open to the viewer's imagination, and this was the ultimate in that. I doubt HE even "knows" whether Tony did or didn't get shot, rather he left it for the viewer to write his or her own conclusion. Brilliant, and even more so the more you think about it, but I have to admit, it was very unsatisfying at the time. I was sitting there staring at the screen thinking : "It's really over?"

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The more I think about it, the more I think Tony got whacked. Remember how Phil got whacked? Waving bye bye to his grandkids. Never saw it coming. His last image was a happy one. Just like Tony.

I originally was leaning on thinking that Tony got whacked. However, if this was the case who gave the order? NY stated things were over from that standpoint.
Look at the NJ family with Tony gone. Who is next in line? Patsy? Friggin PAULIE?

The family has been decimated. Management is gone. The family is in shambles. NY can have its way with NJ now. There is literally nobody standing in their way with Tony gone.

NY uses NJ to get Phil whacked and out of the way, and then when NJ lets their guard down, they take out the single most important player in the NJ mob.

I could have sworn I read earlier in this thread that AJ was going to take over. Or Meadow.
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The problem I have with the HBO theory on the ending is why would Meadow spend all that time trying to parallel park if they wanted to warn his dad. If I knew my dad was about to be shot with the family there, I would park the car on the curb or on top another of another car. ;)

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All this discussion about "Tony's dead" or "Tony's not dead" is exactly what Chase wanted. He's always been about leaving the resolution to conflicts open to the viewer's imagination, and this was the ultimate in that. I doubt HE even "knows" whether Tony did or didn't get shot, rather he left it for the viewer to write his or her own conclusion. Brilliant, and even more so the more you think about it, but I have to admit, it was very unsatisfying at the time. I was sitting there staring at the screen thinking : "It's really over?"

;)
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The problem I have with the HBO theory on the ending is why would Meadow spend all that time trying to parallel park if they wanted to warn his dad. If I knew my dad was about to be shot with the family there, I would park the car on the curb or on top another of another car. :(

I see no reason to buy into any kind of theory having to do with Meadow knowing about a hit on Tony. Just seems absurd to me.
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When the music's over

When the music's over, yeah

When the music's over

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights, yeah

When the music's over

When the music's over

When the music's over

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights

For the music is your special friend

Dance on fire as it intends

Music is your only friend

Until the end

Until the end

Until the end

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection

Send my credentials to the House of Detention

I got some friends inside

The face in the mirror won't stop

The girl in the window won't drop

A feast of friends

"Alive!" she cried

Waitin' for me

Outside!

Before I sink

Into the big sleep

I want to hear

I want to hear

The scream of the butterfly

Come back, baby

Back into my arm

We're gettin' tired of hangin' around

Waitin' around with our heads to the ground

I hear a very gentle sound

Very near yet very far

Very soft, yeah, very clear

Come today, come today

What have they done to the earth?

What have they done to our fair sister?

Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her

Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn

And tied her with fences and dragged her down

I hear a very gentle sound

With your ear down to the ground

We want the world and we want it...

We want the world and we want it...

Now

Now?

Now!

Persian night, babe

See the light, babe

Save us!

Jesus!

Save us!

So when the music's over

When the music's over, yeah

When the music's over

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights

Turn out the lights

Well the music is your special friend

Dance on fire as it intends

Music is your only friend

Until the end

Until the end

Until the end!

:(

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How did you guys interpret the FBI guy :giggling: "We're going to win this thing".Was it a NJ /Tony going to win or the FBI going to win, since he leaked info to Tony through his informant and now Phil is dead.

I took as the Agent Harris actually liking Tony and wanting him to survive/come out on top. It's why the agent he was ####### was pissed at him for making the call too.
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what happened ?

Nothing. You know what's better than nothing? ANYTHING.Final episode of a series we've all devoted so much of our own time in, and they spend half of the show on two of the worst characters in the series (AJ and Janice). Really disappointed they decided that it was important to wrap up that oh-so-interesting AJ story. Oh wait, that's right, they didn't wrap it up. He's still a whiney little #####, they just gave him a new job. Greaaaaat.
Your Vince Foster link is dead.....:(
My links been whacked!
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With all the tension in the restaurant, I thought Meadow was going to get hit by a car as she ran across the street.I actually winced when a car zoomed pass behind(or was it in front of?) her.

Don't think Chase didn't have that car zoom by on purpose. He knew the tension he was building.Personally, I kept thinking of Michael Corleone and how he lost Mary. Turns out, Chase went a different direction with mimicking Godfather. :(
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How did you guys interpret the FBI guy :giggling: "We're going to win this thing".Was it a NJ /Tony going to win or the FBI going to win, since he leaked info to Tony through his informant and now Phil is dead.

I took as the Agent Harris actually liking Tony and wanting him to survive/come out on top. It's why the agent he was ####### was pissed at him for making the call too.
Harris' work with terrorism hasn't paid off, he'd been made impotent, if you will. And his life at home with the missus kind of reflected that. So, he finds his own gumar and finds a way to reclaim his potency, albeit with the "bad guys". Edited by videoguy505
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Didn't someone say they shot like 6 different endings? Have any of them been leaked, or do we wait for the DVD?

I heard on the radio this morning that they will all be on the DVD. All endings continue from the point where it cut to black last night.Essentially, this way it doesn't end any one way, and Chase gets to anally rape his fans who want closure by forcing them to buy and/or rent a season of dvds for a show they already paid a premium to watch.Hey, David Chase, :finger:
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How did you guys interpret the FBI guy :giggling: "We're going to win this thing".Was it a NJ /Tony going to win or the FBI going to win, since he leaked info to Tony through his informant and now Phil is dead.

I took as the Agent Harris actually liking Tony and wanting him to survive/come out on top. It's why the agent he was ####### was pissed at him for making the call too.
Harris' work with terrorism hasn't paid off, he'd been made impotent, if you will. And his life at home with the missus kind of reflected that. So, he finds his own gumar and finds a way to reclaim his potency, albeit with the "bad guys".
Maybe agent Harris flipped.
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The problem I have with the HBO theory on the ending is why would Meadow spend all that time trying to parallel park if they wanted to warn his dad. If I knew my dad was about to be shot with the family there, I would park the car on the curb or on top another of another car. :thumbdown:

I see no reason to buy into any kind of theory having to do with Meadow knowing about a hit on Tony. Just seems absurd to me.
Meadow was just running late. I didn't see it as her being in a rush to warn anyone of anything. Although one of the alternate endings will probably have her warning Tony about something. Edited by Giant Wooden Badger
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If the people who watch lets Twin Peaks or Lost or one of those dramas where if you don't open your mind for a minute you are lost watch this; they would call this the greatest ending ever. Because it made you think and contemplate and wonder. Unfortunately I believe most Soprano fans want to see blood and violence and racism and naked chicks and the general Goodfellas like mob mentality.

Terrible posting.I'm a gigantic Lost fan, and I hated this ending.You know why? Because they filmed the ending and didn't show it to you.Thats BS.
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Didn't someone say they shot like 6 different endings? Have any of them been leaked, or do we wait for the DVD?

I heard on the radio this morning that they will all be on the DVD. All endings continue from the point where it cut to black last night.Essentially, this way it doesn't end any one way, and Chase gets to anally rape his fans who want closure by forcing them to buy and/or rent a season of dvds for a show they already paid a premium to watch.Hey, David Chase, :finger:
Don't worry, they'll all be on YouTube 30 minutes after the DVDs go on sale.
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Now it's very clear that The Sopranos isn't over.

you say that like it's a bad thing
$10000000000000000 says it's over.
You should stop gambling.
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They said on the radio that cast members last night at some finale party sounded like the possibility was open for a movie or other reunion...

I don't think that will happen, but it does give more reason to think Tony's alive, at least as far as the cast and crew are concerned.

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All you guys looking for blood and guts need to watch a different show. This show has always been about Tony and how everything around him effects his family.

What about those of us who have always understood that and still didn't care much for the ending?
Meadow sitting down and the 4 of them toasting something would've been a fine ending.Cutting to black in the middle of a scene is not an ending. Its bs masturbation by Chase.
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All you guys looking for blood and guts need to watch a different show. This show has always been about Tony and how everything around him effects his family.

What about those of us who have always understood that and still didn't care much for the ending?
Meadow sitting down and the 4 of them toasting something would've been a fine ending.Cutting to black in the middle of a scene is not an ending. Its bs masturbation by Chase.
"The story is the foundation of all entertainment. You must have a good story otherwise it's just masturbation."- Costanza
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This morning when I woke up, I decided I was OK with the ending. Not that it was the greatest piece of TV ever, but, I'm OK with it. Full circle, story's done, I'm alright.

However, I would laugh my ### off if Harry Potter ended the same way. Like "Harry turned to Lord Voldemort, and..." and then that's the end of the page and there's no more pages in the book.

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How did you guys interpret the FBI guy :giggling: "We're going to win this thing".Was it a NJ /Tony going to win or the FBI going to win, since he leaked info to Tony through his informant and now Phil is dead.

I took as the Agent Harris actually liking Tony and wanting him to survive/come out on top. It's why the agent he was ####### was pissed at him for making the call too.
That's how I took it, too. Explains his uncomfortable look right after he said it.
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Again, I will reiterate it was a terrible finale IMO. Left more unanswered questions than it answered and was more like a season finale than a series finale.

Drudge has 4 reviews on his page panning it. :confused:

I'd cancel HBO if it weren't for Entourage.

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With all the tension in the restaurant, I thought Meadow was going to get hit by a car as she ran across the street.I actually winced when a car zoomed pass behind(or was it in front of?) her.

Same here. It's actually why I didn't think last night that he was killed, and I don't think it now. There were all kinds of things thrown in there to build tension and take advantage of the fact that you had no idea what would happen. Turns out, none of them were actual dangers, and life goes on.Story is over, not because something drastic happened to end it, but just because the storyteller is ready to stop telling the story. But he decided to at least make the end a little more interesting than the family sitting around the Christmas tree.Some things were tied up, lots of things weren't, which is how I like it. Made the whole thing more realistic to me.
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What/Who was the artist on the CD that AJ was listening to as he was about to commit a felony by having sex with a minor?

Am I the only one whose hoping that the actress is not really a minor?
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With all the tension in the restaurant, I thought Meadow was going to get hit by a car as she ran across the street.I actually winced when a car zoomed pass behind(or was it in front of?) her.

Don't think Chase didn't have that car zoom by on purpose. He knew the tension he was building.Personally, I kept thinking of Michael Corleone and how he lost Mary. Turns out, Chase went a different direction with mimicking Godfather. :clap:
Actually, if people believe Tony died than Chase blatantly ripped off his ending from "The Godfather.'That's one of the reasons I don't believe Tony died. I think Chase wanted to draw the connection and have it result in nothing. I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption given how the show ended. But again, my main reason for believing Tony is alive is all we have to go on as far as the story goes is what Chase shows us. And he showed us Tony clearly being alive at the end. If Chase wants us to interpret our own endings then fine -- Meadow was late because of her torrid lesbian affair with Blanca and A.J. was the one who got whacked at the end.That's an interpretation I can live with.
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The problem I have with the HBO theory on the ending is why would Meadow spend all that time trying to parallel park if they wanted to warn his dad. If I knew my dad was about to be shot with the family there, I would park the car on the curb or on top another of another car. :clap:

I can understand why some believe that the screen going black symbolizes Tony's death but if that is what Chase was after it would have been better IMO to see the dude walking OUT of the bathroom, then show Tony looking up, before the cut to black. As it was shownthe guy was just going into the bathroom when Tonly looked up and saw Meadow enter the restaurant. I don't think there was enough time for the guy to have shot Tony before the fade to black.I thought Meadow's troubles with parking was going to delay he entry into the restuarant long enough to witness her dad being shot. It would make a heck of a beginning of a movie or special though...
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With everyone seeming to think that the end of the show is going to be about Tony dying, going to jail or his “downfall,” what about the last few episodes building up to something where Tony becomes more powerful and ruthless and does something like take out Phil and whoever else stands in his way. So after all the life-altering experiences and the therapy, etc. Tony just simply comes to grips with who he is and embraces it. ("I get it.")

Just saying that after all the other things people have complained about Chase doing, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he ended things on a simple and understated note that is going to piss off a lot of fans.

:lmao:
That was a good call - almost as good as my call on Tony perusing the menu in the ice cream shop and ordering a vanilla cone onion rings.
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