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Couple points from the last few episodes:1) the only thing douchier than AJ is AJ's "gangster obsessed" friends.2) Maybe the biggest travesty of the whole series is how Janice jumped in in front of JoJo Palmice. JoJo was a piece of ###.3) The Gloria Trillo thing was much sadder than I remembered. Gandolfini nails that in the car dealership.4) IMO, Cousin Brian and his few episodes are great in showing how much Carmella uses people. Brians the cats meow, always over, going to Billy Joel.....then once she gets what she needs from him.....he's out the door. As a whole, the 4th season has some great moments and lines; particularly Ralph (If you bring some dirty chef's whites...my friend will suck the stains out of them)......but it just can't get momentum on a good overall story.

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Tony Soprano : [over the phone]  It's a bad connection, so I'm gonna talk fast! The guy you're looking for is an ex-commando! He killed sixteen Chechen rebels single-handed! Paulie 'Walnuts' Gual

Could have used more Furio before they wrote him out. His first scene in America collecting at the brothel was insane. up in the club cracks me up every time.

Seeing this thread bumped reminded me, I picked up the Sopranos in the middle of season 2. I'd just moved to LA and friends I hung out with used to have viewing parties so that was my introduction. It

A lot of Season 4 had a weird vibe, and some of the transitional storylines weren't overly interesting - like the death of Bobby's wife, his grief and Janice worming her way into his life - but there are some great individual episodes in that season. Calling All Cars and Christopher are definitely two of the worst episodes the show ever had, however.

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Funny little detail I've never noticed before, and I've seen these episodes like 7 times each:When Ralphie is celebrating one of Pie O My's victories with his buddies, right before the scene ends, Ralphie kind of collapses and clutches his chest like he's having a heart attack.

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Finally finished the latest marathon of this show with my wife. Probably the 4th time through it, probably won't do it again for a really long time, but I have some fresh perspectives after kicking things around since the show ended.Chase wanted us to come away hating almost all of them, and understanding and accepting that their way of life is ultimately a cancer and that most of the protagonists will end up paying dearly for their misdeeds (if they hadn't already just before this point). I think the ambiguous ending says that whether Tony gets killed or indicted is beside the point -- one of those things is very imminent, and either way, stick a fork in him. I feel this way because Tony, Carmela, Paulie, Chris, Hesh, AJ, Janice, Junior, Johnny Sack, the entire NY crew and even freaking Bobby Bacala are portrayed at one time or another in the 6th season as being really awful and/or broken people, to an extent unprecedented in previous seasons. It seemed like that idea was being rammed down our throats. I think Chase was annoyed by how the characters were revered by the audience and wanted to say we were all idiots and sociopaths for having any sympathy or affinity whatsoever for them. His opinion of Tony and the rest of them is about the same as Melfi's at the very end -- beyond hope and not worth the effort to try to save. There are countless examples of this through the second part of season 6, in obvious and subtle ways.There is just one character who ends up having a successful and happy life, that being Meadow. They hinted at AJ getting his life together too, but I am less inclined to believe it. It had me wondering if this could be said of many other shows, the characters being loved by the audience but ultimately they are almost all reprobates. Always Sunny comes to mind. Maybe all of this has dawned on everyone but me until now, but I would bet there are very divergent opinions out there.

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I agree for the most part, McGarnicle. The last season was very dark, not just in storylines, but in cinematography. Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 6B and the difference in color in the way the show was filmed is more than obvious. The darkness of the characters and stories of 6B is reflected in the directing and the filming. As for Meadow, if the ending really was what many of us think it was (Tony getting killed), then her walking in and witnessing his death likely changed the trajectory of her life. So, despite being a successful college graduate and seemingly have her life on the right track, the ripple effect of the family she was born into was still unavoidable. And let's not forget she was more like Tony that even she realized. Just think of her telling Tony and Carmela what Coco said to her. She is not stupid; she knew her father would react in a certain way. And her dating the son of one of Tony's mob associates? Meadow was pretty much on tract to have a life similar to Carmela in many ways - a manipulative wife that is connected and knows how and when to flaunt her power. But Meadow would have a career, something Carmela never really had until later, which could make her more dangerous.

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I agree for the most part, McGarnicle. The last season was very dark, not just in storylines, but in cinematography. Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 6B and the difference in color in the way the show was filmed is more than obvious. The darkness of the characters and stories of 6B is reflected in the directing and the filming. As for Meadow, if the ending really was what many of us think it was (Tony getting killed), then her walking in and witnessing his death likely changed the trajectory of her life. So, despite being a successful college graduate and seemingly have her life on the right track, the ripple effect of the family she was born into was still unavoidable. And let's not forget she was more like Tony that even she realized. Just think of her telling Tony and Carmela what Coco said to her. She is not stupid; she knew her father would react in a certain way. And her dating the son of one of Tony's mob associates? Meadow was pretty much on tract to have a life similar to Carmela in many ways - a manipulative wife that is connected and knows how and when to flaunt her power. But Meadow would have a career, something Carmela never really had until later, which could make her more dangerous.

I thought Meadow being late to the restaurant, having issues parking the car but ultimately getting it right and crossing the street but almost getting hit were all metaphorical. She's a late bloomer. Possibly marries the Parisi kid, it doesn't work out, they divorce. Grows the career in the meantime, as you stated. She learns and grows, has some close calls, but is ultimately successful and fulfilled. But when you think about it, yeah, Chase could have meant for the engagement to signal the Carmela-Tony cycle repeating. Pretty interesting.Sidebar -- Italianissimo, the place that in real life is very close to the Soprano house and is part of the stolen credit-card scam, was actually busted for that in real life in 2009 and is now closed. Life imitating art, pretty crazy.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree for the most part, McGarnicle. The last season was very dark, not just in storylines, but in cinematography. Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 6B and the difference in color in the way the show was filmed is more than obvious. The darkness of the characters and stories of 6B is reflected in the directing and the filming. As for Meadow, if the ending really was what many of us think it was (Tony getting killed), then her walking in and witnessing his death likely changed the trajectory of her life. So, despite being a successful college graduate and seemingly have her life on the right track, the ripple effect of the family she was born into was still unavoidable. And let's not forget she was more like Tony that even she realized. Just think of her telling Tony and Carmela what Coco said to her. She is not stupid; she knew her father would react in a certain way. And her dating the son of one of Tony's mob associates? Meadow was pretty much on tract to have a life similar to Carmela in many ways - a manipulative wife that is connected and knows how and when to flaunt her power. But Meadow would have a career, something Carmela never really had until later, which could make her more dangerous.

I thought Meadow being late to the restaurant, having issues parking the car but ultimately getting it right and crossing the street but almost getting hit were all metaphorical. She's a late bloomer. Possibly marries the Parisi kid, it doesn't work out, they divorce. Grows the career in the meantime, as you stated. She learns and grows, has some close calls, but is ultimately successful and fulfilled. But when you think about it, yeah, Chase could have meant for the engagement to signal the Carmela-Tony cycle repeating. Pretty interesting.Sidebar -- Italianissimo, the place that in real life is very close to the Soprano house and is part of the stolen credit-card scam, was actually busted for that in real life in 2009 and is now closed. Life imitating art, pretty crazy.
I don't know....Didn't she go from wanting to be a lawyer that actually helped the downtrodden to kind of believing the myths of the Italian Mafia spewed by her family?
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Does anyone have any insight as to what the storyline for Feech might have been had Robert Loggia not been such a difficult person to work with?That character gets better every time I watch the seasons.

Good question. He was a pretty good character IMO with the limited time he had. He was referred to in a previous season as a "Mustache Pete" which was normally a term used for original mafia guys who came over from Italy IIRC. That didn't seem to be the character we had though. Old school, yes, THAT old school, no.
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Oh, Jean-Philippe... you're home! I called you five times. Qu'est-ce que c'est? Message machine broken? Nice crib. What's that...Berber carpet? Those, uhh, shoes you wear, what are they... designer? Hmmm? You f--kin avoiding' me motherf--ker? Where's my money? Oh, what are you gonna cry now, Huh? Stand up you frog–eating faccia de gatz'. I will f--k you up!

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Oh, Jean-Philippe... you're home! I called you five times. Qu'est-ce que c'est? Message machine broken? Nice crib. What's that...Berber carpet? Those, uhh, shoes you wear, what are they... designer? Hmmm? You f--kin avoiding' me motherf--ker? Where's my money? Oh, what are you gonna cry now, Huh? Stand up you frog–eating faccia de gatz'. I will f--k you up!

LOL!.....
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I agree for the most part, McGarnicle. The last season was very dark, not just in storylines, but in cinematography. Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 6B and the difference in color in the way the show was filmed is more than obvious. The darkness of the characters and stories of 6B is reflected in the directing and the filming. As for Meadow, if the ending really was what many of us think it was (Tony getting killed), then her walking in and witnessing his death likely changed the trajectory of her life. So, despite being a successful college graduate and seemingly have her life on the right track, the ripple effect of the family she was born into was still unavoidable. And let's not forget she was more like Tony that even she realized. Just think of her telling Tony and Carmela what Coco said to her. She is not stupid; she knew her father would react in a certain way. And her dating the son of one of Tony's mob associates? Meadow was pretty much on tract to have a life similar to Carmela in many ways - a manipulative wife that is connected and knows how and when to flaunt her power. But Meadow would have a career, something Carmela never really had until later, which could make her more dangerous.

I thought Meadow being late to the restaurant, having issues parking the car but ultimately getting it right and crossing the street but almost getting hit were all metaphorical. She's a late bloomer. Possibly marries the Parisi kid, it doesn't work out, they divorce. Grows the career in the meantime, as you stated. She learns and grows, has some close calls, but is ultimately successful and fulfilled. But when you think about it, yeah, Chase could have meant for the engagement to signal the Carmela-Tony cycle repeating. Pretty interesting.Sidebar -- Italianissimo, the place that in real life is very close to the Soprano house and is part of the stolen credit-card scam, was actually busted for that in real life in 2009 and is now closed. Life imitating art, pretty crazy.
I don't know....Didn't she go from wanting to be a lawyer that actually helped the downtrodden to kind of believing the myths of the Italian Mafia spewed by her family?
I'm going with the assumption that each generation hopefully evolves and learns from the last. That, plus the fact that the mafia is not what it used to be lead me to believe she won't end up like her mother. There are lots of families in northern NJ that are loosely "connected" to an element of organized crime, but they also have regular jobs. Maybe they get a new patio installed at cost, or a free flat screen TV once in a while, but they don't lead anything close to the lives depicted on this show. It's possible I'm giving Meadow too much credit, but she seemed to have her #### together more than anyone else on the show by far.
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I agree for the most part, McGarnicle. The last season was very dark, not just in storylines, but in cinematography. Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 6B and the difference in color in the way the show was filmed is more than obvious. The darkness of the characters and stories of 6B is reflected in the directing and the filming. As for Meadow, if the ending really was what many of us think it was (Tony getting killed), then her walking in and witnessing his death likely changed the trajectory of her life. So, despite being a successful college graduate and seemingly have her life on the right track, the ripple effect of the family she was born into was still unavoidable. And let's not forget she was more like Tony that even she realized. Just think of her telling Tony and Carmela what Coco said to her. She is not stupid; she knew her father would react in a certain way. And her dating the son of one of Tony's mob associates? Meadow was pretty much on tract to have a life similar to Carmela in many ways - a manipulative wife that is connected and knows how and when to flaunt her power. But Meadow would have a career, something Carmela never really had until later, which could make her more dangerous.

I thought Meadow being late to the restaurant, having issues parking the car but ultimately getting it right and crossing the street but almost getting hit were all metaphorical. She's a late bloomer. Possibly marries the Parisi kid, it doesn't work out, they divorce. Grows the career in the meantime, as you stated. She learns and grows, has some close calls, but is ultimately successful and fulfilled. But when you think about it, yeah, Chase could have meant for the engagement to signal the Carmela-Tony cycle repeating. Pretty interesting.Sidebar -- Italianissimo, the place that in real life is very close to the Soprano house and is part of the stolen credit-card scam, was actually busted for that in real life in 2009 and is now closed. Life imitating art, pretty crazy.
I don't know....Didn't she go from wanting to be a lawyer that actually helped the downtrodden to kind of believing the myths of the Italian Mafia spewed by her family?
I'm going with the assumption that each generation hopefully evolves and learns from the last. That, plus the fact that the mafia is not what it used to be lead me to believe she won't end up like her mother. There are lots of families in northern NJ that are loosely "connected" to an element of organized crime, but they also have regular jobs. Maybe they get a new patio installed at cost, or a free flat screen TV once in a while, but they don't lead anything close to the lives depicted on this show. It's possible I'm giving Meadow too much credit, but she seemed to have her #### together more than anyone else on the show by far.
See I think she kind of devolved into embracing and believing the stereotype.The end of the show is interesting in regards to the (untold) story because what the hell is Tony supposed to do (assuming he wasn't killed)?....Virtually his entire infrastructure is dead or corrupted by the Feds... Pauly, Patsy and Albert Barese are still around....but that's about it.ETA...I have to imagine if they ever did a Sopranos movie...it would either be when Tony was younger or (assuming that the show took place in real time) they'll give us a "fill in the gaps" story between two of the seasons. Edited by Thunderlips
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I caught a few episodes again recently and I think Christopher has my two favorite lines in the entire series. After he gets caught putting his hand on undercover fbi Danielle's leg, "I was trying to be nice because I know she's your friend." And when he sits on and kills the dog, "how many times have I said she shouldn't be on the furniture." :lol:

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The end of the show is interesting in regards to the (untold) story because what the hell is Tony supposed to do (assuming he wasn't killed)?

He was likely going to prison; Carol had flipped, and Tony was ready to go down in flames, so he's either dead or in prison for a long time. Either way, his life, as we saw it, was over. And it's really too bad. His life could have been so much better if he had had the makings of a varsity athlete. :P Edited by Ghost Rider
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I caught a few episodes again recently and I think Christopher has my two favorite lines in the entire series. After he gets caught putting his hand on undercover fbi Danielle's leg, "I was trying to be nice because I know she's your friend." And when he sits on and kills the dog, "how many times have I said she shouldn't be on the furniture." :lol:

:lmao:Some of my favorite lines from Christopher are in "Pine Barrens". When Paulie mentions the Cuban Missile Crisis Chris says "That was real? I saw that movie. I thought it was bull####."And then when Paulie starts to pull rank on him: "#### you, Paulie! Captain or no Captain...right now we're just two ###holes lost in the woods."
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Some of my favorite lines from Christopher are in "Pine Barrens". When Paulie mentions the Cuban Missile Crisis Chris says "That was real? I saw that movie. I thought it was bull####."And then when Paulie starts to pull rank on him: "#### you, Paulie! Captain or no Captain...right now we're just two ###holes lost in the woods."

I still love when Ade told him she had IBS and he replied, "My aunt had that; her whole ####### rotted out." :lmao:
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Some of my favorite lines from Christopher are in "Pine Barrens". When Paulie mentions the Cuban Missile Crisis Chris says "That was real? I saw that movie. I thought it was bull####."

And then when Paulie starts to pull rank on him: "#### you, Paulie! Captain or no Captain...right now we're just two ###holes lost in the woods."

I still love when Ade told him she had IBS and he replied, "My aunt had that; her whole ####### rotted out." :lmao:
Jon Favreau stealing all of my ideas!
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  • 3 weeks later...

"Mayham" was on the other day. Pure gold from Paulie when he goes to visit Tony in the ICU.

Paraphrasing...

Meadow: Only say positive things.

Paulie: You got it (sees Tony) Madonne! HE LOOKS TERRIBLE!

Then telling Tony how he won the chin-up derby 3 weeks in a row in the service.

"The guy wanted me to pose for the boxing poster. He was half-a-phag but I was flattered anyway."

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"Mayham" was on the other day. Pure gold from Paulie when he goes to visit Tony in the ICU.Paraphrasing...Meadow: Only say positive things.Paulie: You got it (sees Tony) Madonne! HE LOOKS TERRIBLE!Then telling Tony how he won the chin-up derby 3 weeks in a row in the service. "The guy wanted me to pose for the boxing poster. He was half-a-phag but I was flattered anyway."

"Now look at this. It wrinkles like an old lady's ####!"
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"Mayham" was on the other day. Pure gold from Paulie when he goes to visit Tony in the ICU.Paraphrasing...Meadow: Only say positive things.Paulie: You got it (sees Tony) Madonne! HE LOOKS TERRIBLE!Then telling Tony how he won the chin-up derby 3 weeks in a row in the service. "The guy wanted me to pose for the boxing poster. He was half-a-phag but I was flattered anyway."

"Now look at this. It wrinkles like an old lady's ####!"
That too :lmao:Finally Tony goes into arrest thanks in part to Paulie's rambling. Later on he tells the guys "I was just holding his hand and the machines go crazy!"
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Re-watching the entire series on HBOGO.

One thing I noticed that didn't work: when Brendan Falone gets whacked, Uncle Junior is in the apartment. No way would he be there for the hit.

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Who's Hotter: Carmela or Melfi?Neither of them aged particularly well throughout the series, so we'll go with the Season 1 version of each woman.

Even though I usually prefer brunettes, I will take Carmela. Now, if I can take Melfi when she was Henry Hill's wife, then my answer would be different.
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Who's Hotter: Carmela or Melfi?

Neither of them aged particularly well throughout the series, so we'll go with the Season 1 version of each woman.

Even though I usually prefer brunettes, I will take Carmela. Now, if I can take Melfi when she was Henry Hill's wife, then my answer would be different.
She had these great eyes... just like Liz Taylor's. At least that's what I thought.
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Who's Hotter: Carmela or Melfi?Neither of them aged particularly well throughout the series, so we'll go with the Season 1 version of each woman.

Even though I usually prefer brunettes, I will take Carmela. Now, if I can take Melfi when she was Henry Hill's wife, then my answer would be different.
I feel the same way. Also Edie got in better shape as the seasons went on where as Bracco put on obvious weight during the years . Edie looked half decent when she sexually manipulated Wegler into helping out AJ with his grades. Edited by NewlyRetired
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Edie got in better shape as the seasons went on where as Bracco put on obvious weight during the years

She mentioned that to her therapist, Elliot. "I'm gaining weight."

I wonder if they wrote that into the script after Bracco got a little heavy, or if they had her wear a bit of padding to accommodate the story.

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in the later seasons, Melfi was always wearing clothes that covered her pretty well, unlike in the early seasons when she would still wear clothes that showed off her legs or whatever, and I thought it was obvious that the actress had put on quite a bit of weight. But hell, she had to be pushing around 50 around that time, so...

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in the later seasons, Melfi was always wearing clothes that covered her pretty well, unlike in the early seasons when she would still wear clothes that showed off her legs or whatever, and I thought it was obvious that the actress had put on quite a bit of weight. But hell, she had to be pushing around 50 around that time, so...

Yeah Bracco was about 45 when the series started and about 53 when it ended (she will be 59 in October). Chase originally wanted her to read for Carmela's role. Edited by NewlyRetired
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  • 2 weeks later...

So lets pretend that the series didn't end. Lets also assume that the sudden black screen was indeed tony meeting his demise in front of his family. What happens next? Who takes over with Sil in a coma? Who is in charge in New York now? Is the nj family just absorbed?

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So lets pretend that the series didn't end. Lets also assume that the sudden black screen was indeed tony meeting his demise in front of his family. What happens next? Who takes over with Sil in a coma? Who is in charge in New York now? Is the nj family just absorbed?

I think the Jersey family would just become a NY crew.
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AJ isn't an option. Pauly is too old and dumb. Carlo is a rat. Tony weakened the family with how he handled Ralphie and Richie Aprile. The way Tony handled Chris seems to have been what led him back to drugs and death. Vito got himself killed. Who even is left, Benny?

Tony really ended up a poor boss, no?

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Season 2: Davey Scatino owed Tony a boatload of money from the Executive Card Game. My favorite episode, BTW ... The Happy Wanderer. Davey goes to Artie's restaurant and tells him about the trouble he's in. He looks to borrow $20K. Artie pauses, expresses regret and says "Bad timing -- I gotta put a new roof on this place."

My buddy and I always wonder how truthful that statement was. Here's what we concluded.

5% chance that he had to put a new roof on the restaurant.

95% chance he didn't want to lend twenty grand to a degenerate gambler.

Agree?

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AJ isn't an option. Pauly is too old and dumb. Carlo is a rat. Tony weakened the family with how he handled Ralphie and Richie Aprile. The way Tony handled Chris seems to have been what led him back to drugs and death. Vito got himself killed. Who even is left, Benny? Tony really ended up a poor boss, no?

Yeah, that's why I went with the "absorption" theory. There aren't many desirable players left to even absorb.
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AJ isn't an option. Pauly is too old and dumb. Carlo is a rat. Tony weakened the family with how he handled Ralphie and Richie Aprile. The way Tony handled Chris seems to have been what led him back to drugs and death. Vito got himself killed. Who even is left, Benny? Tony really ended up a poor boss, no?

Yeah, that's why I went with the "absorption" theory. There aren't many desirable players left to even absorb.
So New York wins. Even if tony isn't dead, he's got nobody left. His insecurity and neurosis caused him to decimate his own family. New York gets the connections and no more major splitting of money.
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Season 2: Davey Scatino owed Tony a boatload of money from the Executive Card Game. My favorite episode, BTW ... The Happy Wanderer. Davey goes to Artie's restaurant and tells him about the trouble he's in. He looks to borrow $20K. Artie pauses, expresses regret and says "Bad timing -- I gotta put a new roof on this place."

My buddy and I always wonder how truthful that statement was. Here's what we concluded.

5% chance that he had to put a new roof on the restaurant.

95% chance he didn't want to lend twenty grand to a degenerate gambler.

Agree?

More like 100%, not 95%. Artie's restaurant was not even a year old at that point, and he needs a new roof already? Uh, no.
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AJ isn't an option. Pauly is too old and dumb. Carlo is a rat. Tony weakened the family with how he handled Ralphie and Richie Aprile. The way Tony handled Chris seems to have been what led him back to drugs and death. Vito got himself killed. Who even is left, Benny? Tony really ended up a poor boss, no?

Maybe so, but all due respect, you got no ####in’ idea what it’s like to be number one. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other ####in’ thing. It’s too much to deal with almost. And in the end you’re completely alone with it all.
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