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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (2 Viewers)

Losing 1-0 on a bases loaded walk with two outs in the 9th inning kind of sucks. Oh well, I guess you can't win 'em all. :excited:
Or, most of 'em :goodposting:Bummer last night, the Nats get the loss and I can't even get a W out of JurrjensNot a whole lot to take from this series other than the Braves kinda suck too
 
Raise your glasses to Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders. Our three week run as laughingstock of the sports world is over. :o

 
Will be somewhat interesting to see what they do with Strasberg, then management/coaching staff in the offseason. I always thought Randy St. Claire did a pretty good job with the fecal matter he was given, but the pitching staff is now at rock bottom and digging.
Keith Law said a week or two ago that if he were running the Nats he would immediately shut Strasburg down for the rest of the year after they sign him. It's not like the Nats need him this year. Shut him down and get him ready for next year.
 
Daniel Cabrera still in the rotation. Unbelievable.
:coffee: What's the point in starting him? They are so quick to send bullpen guys up and down, but Cabrera gets to go out every 5 days and miss the strike zone? He leads the league in walks AND wild pitches. Quite the combo there, Danny.
 
Daniel Cabrera still in the rotation. Unbelievable.
:bag: What's the point in starting him? They are so quick to send bullpen guys up and down, but Cabrera gets to go out every 5 days and miss the strike zone? He leads the league in walks AND wild pitches. Quite the combo there, Danny.
His SO/9 is way down as well. In his "prime", Cabrera struck out a batter per inning. This year his SO/9 is only 3.4. It's hard to be successful with that low of a SO rate even if you have excellent command a low BABIP. Cabrera obviously isn't the poster boy for command: he's currently allowing over 1.0 H/IP and over 7 BB/IP which makes him worse than worthless.
 
Will be somewhat interesting to see what they do with Strasberg, then management/coaching staff in the offseason. I always thought Randy St. Claire did a pretty good job with the fecal matter he was given, but the pitching staff is now at rock bottom and digging.
Keith Law said a week or two ago that if he were running the Nats he would immediately shut Strasburg down for the rest of the year after they sign him. It's not like the Nats need him this year. Shut him down and get him ready for next year.
Agree 100%Gotta sign him first of course
 
Zim streak over at 30

Good win though, assuming it holds up

 
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Zim streak over at 30

Good win though, assuming it holds up
Key words here. The way things have been going they could easily score 4 in the 9th and tie it up. If that's the case he could theoretically get him another chance. The way he's been tearing them up, eventually someone would decide not to give him much to hit. If that team had some pitching they might be dangerous. They do have solid hitting right now, especially with Dunn pretending to be a 0.300 hitter.

 
Nationals' Bullpen Remains a Debacle

By Thomas Boswell

Monday, May 18, 2009

The "Natinals" pitching staff is now so bad they may shorten their nickname further, to "Natnals." The "i" can't bear to watch.

After another eighth-inning bullpen implosion yesterday to squander a lead and lose, 8-6, the Nats are now on pace to give up 1,029 runs this season. That sounds awful. But it's worse. Since 1939, only one team has given up more than that -- the 1996 Tigers, who lost 109 games. So, it's not surprising the world champion Phillies didn't take batting practice yesterday. After three games in two days against the Nats, they'd already had plenty of it.

Also yesterday, in the very same game, Cristian Guzmán got three hits to take the NL league lead in hitting at .381. Ryan Zimmerman and Adam Dunn each got their 30th RBI, putting them both on pace for 131 this season. Elijah Dukes doubled in a run, so he's on track for 105 RBI. Nick Johnson reached base four times and raised his average to .333. And the Nats' bludgeoning lineup remained ranked fourth in the NL in runs scored.

So, is this 11-25 glass half full (of offense) or almost entirely empty (of victories)?

For now, go with the latter. If the Nats had a bullpen, they would be entertaining and competitive, at least on days when John Lannan or rookies Shairon Martis (5-0) and Jordan Zimmermann (2-1) start. But they don't, so they aren't.

Until you have a 'pen that can hold a lead and a starting rotation that does not include Daniel Cabrera and Scott Olsen, who've allowed 75 runs in 80 1/3 innings (the Nats are 1-14 in their starts), what you have is a fan's nightmare. Luckily, about half of this crowd of 29,577 went home happy. They were Phillies fans. Drive safe.

This time, a reliever found a new way to lose -- by making a perfect play. With two on and none out in the eighth, Nats ahead 6-5, Jesús (Column B) Colome fielded a bunt and threw with geometric precision to first base. But Anderson Hernández, covering first base, jumped out of the way of the ball before it could hit him. So, as the throw rolled far away, a sacrifice bunt attempt had the same effect as a two-run, game-winning triple.

"I asked him, 'What happened?' " said Manny Acta. "He said he lost the ball in the crowd." Or maybe Hernández was just shocked to see a Nats reliever throw a strike.

Asked about the play, Zimmerman said, "It seems like we can do some stuff right now that other people can't." At least not the ones above Class A.

Fortunately, the Nats' patience, even Acta's stoic act, has run out after watching nine games lost after holding a lead in the eighth or ninth innings.

It's said that hitting is contagious. Can bad pitching be the same? And can it last all season? "If it stays like this, it's going to be with other guys. We're not going to put up with this," said Acta. "This doesn't cut it."

Step 1 is obvious. As soon as feasible, the Nats need to admit that the 6-foot-9 Cabrera, perhaps the wildest pitcher in captivity, is just the latest in a line of "high-ceiling" disasters from the Jim Bowden era, the pitching equivalent of Wily Mo Peña, the 500-foot BP extravaganza who couldn't hit any pitch with a wrinkle.

For years, ownership loathed eating contracts, even ones like Cabrera's one-year, $2.6-million deal. When the Giants guarantee Barry Zito $126 million, that's a big blunder. But taking a chance on Cabrera, then admitting it's a mistake and moving on in a hurry, is just the cost of doing business.

"Any contracts that need to be [swallowed] will not be a problem," said one member of the front office. So, though Acta still hasn't seen enough to give up on him, Cabrera is down to a rotation half-life that expires this month unless he shows rapid results.

Step 2 has befallen the Nats by accident. Olsen, who lost his fastball in the middle of last season in Miami and has not rediscovered it, went on the disabled list Saturday with shoulder stiffness. Did the Nats trade for damaged goods?

As an emergency starter today, the Nats will use Ross Detwiler, their No. 6 overall draft pick in '07. Such high picks usually progress quickly. Detwiler bombed with a 4.88 ERA at Class A last year. But now, elevated to AA, not on merit but simply on general principles, Detwiler has put up hot-prospect stats against better competition, albeit only for a few weeks. "We can't wait to see him. He's been stepping up finally in AA," said Acta, who seldom minces words and didn't avoid "finally."

"We have to challenge the guy and find out what he has," said Acta, knowing the Nats will make a decision about Detwiler's place in the big picture in about a year.

The Nats' larger problem is what to do to take the curse off their bullpen where, Acta says, he has tried "everybody and their cousins." The Nats started the season with a baby brigade. The more they failed, the more frightened they pitched. Now, the Nats have switched to the old Davey Johnson theory of bullpen building: "Find the ones with guts. Get rid of the rest before they contaminate the others."

"I understand that theory," said 39-year-old lefty Ron Villone, who'd scare a Soprano. "We're out on our own little island. It's up to us to take care of each other."

So, now the Nats have gone old in the pen with Villone, Julián Tavárez, Joe Beimel, Colome and Kip Wells, all in their 30s, hoping that their experience rubs off on once-and-future closer Joel Hanrahan and Garrett Mock. It's not working, so far. But at least there are now teachers sitting beyond the outfield fence, not just scared young students.

"You learn to make adjustments from day to day," said Villone, who pitched two perfect innings yesterday, right through the heart of the Phils' order, before turning the game over to the arson squad. "Do I have my best stuff? Or do I have to depend on movement today or location or changing speeds? You have to make that decision quickly before the situation explodes.

"It's always a roller coaster for the bullpen. We have to strap it on and stay together."

In a larger sense, that's where all the Nationals find themselves: with an offense worthy of a .500 team, at least, and three young starters who might fit nicely in a rotation with probable No. 1 overall draft pick Stephen Strasburg.

"We've got an offense now. We've got young starters we like and we're going to get more," said team president Stan Kasten. "You can get a bullpen. And, one way or another, we will."

Soon? Probably not.

Can the Nats hitters continue their assault in the face of the most frustrating of all baseball experiences: repeated blown leads? Will it grind 'em down?

"Ain't gonna happen," said Dunn as he left the park. "Not to us."

So, the Natnals have that.

 
I've thought for years Cabrera with his stuff and stature could be a good bullpen pitcher but at this point I think he's ruined

I just hope they can get through the season without screwing up these young pitchers, and they sign Strasburg without too much kerfuffle.

GB Extra Innings.. I'm pretty much done watching these clowns. Got what they paid for with the pitching staff, will go down as one of the worst teams in history.

 
Generally, you pull a young pitcher before he can get a loss. But, Acta was clearly waiting as long as he could to go to the pen. Surprisingly, they actually came through.

The fact that this team can hit and that their rotation is young and promising is exciting to watch.

 
They keep saying that Justin Maxwell is the most talented outfielder in the organization, and sure enough he just robbed Adam Jones of a home run over the wall like it was nothing. But then he got struck out flopping around up there like he was me. Dude can't hit a lick.

 
Uh oh. Nats being named in a steroids bust in Florida yesterday. So I guess they'd have like 5 wins if they weren't on roids?

 
:goodposting: This should be a good series:

San Fran's three starters have combined for six Cy Young awards. Washington's three starters have combined for two career victories.
LOLI've given up. The only reason I'll watch at all is because I have combos of NJ, Zim and Dunn in fantasy. I'm embarrassed to wear my W hat in public now. The Orioles have a huge youth movement and their fanbase is waking up. I'm starting to feel like a Clippers diehard in LA.
 
Dukes optioned to Syracuse. His BA dropped like a rock the past month. And, with Willingham and Willie Harris playing well recently, Dukes is the odd man out.

 
Link

On Handling the Starters

Here is a list, free of context:

June 6, 2009 -- John Lannan, vs. NYM (9 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 96 pitches)

May 2, 2009 -- Shairon Martis, vs. STL (9 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 110 pitches)

July 5, 2009 -- Scott Olsen, vs. ATL (8-2/3 IP, 8 H, 3 ER, 116 pitches)

June 17, 2009 -- John Lannan, vs. NYY (8-1/3 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 108 pitches)

Okay, so what is this? A list of the Washington's deepest starting pitching performances in the last two months?

Well, yes. But it's also the list of the deepest starting pitching performances of the Manny Acta ERA. In other words: The four longest outings in Acta's 402-game tenure have all come within the last 48 games. And three have come in the month-plus since Steve McCatty (he of the man-up/be-accountable philosophy) took over as pitching coach. And all have come since Mike Rizzo took over the general manager's office.

After yesterday's game, I asked Acta if he'd changed his philosophy about starting pitchers.

He responded with an emphatic No.

Suddenly, he said, he's just getting better pitching performances -- especially from the two veterans (Lannan and Olsen) whom he's willing to leave on the mound deep into games. (He'll still handle the rookies with kid gloves.)

"My philosophy goes according to how a guy is pitching," Acta said. "If a guy is not pitching good he can have 35 years in the big leagues and he's gonna be out of there. If a guy is pitching well, he'll stay in the game. Obviously you have to manage according to what you have. This year we don't have the seventh, eighth inning guy (in the bullpen) like we've had in the past, but we haven't had that many veteran guys to deal with. The veterans we had had 100 pitches after 5-2/3."

That all makes sense. Acta has significantly better starters this year. He has a significantly weaker bullpen. But I also believe that the organization, especially with McCatty, wants to see how its starters respond to those late-inning, gotta-get-'em-out scenarios. This is hardly tantamount to abuse. (Note the relatively tame pitch counts from the above list; they're all pretty low.) But it's surely a sign that starters will be given every chance to finish what they've started. This, for the Nationals, represents a change.
I was at the game yesterday and the fans definitely appreciated Acta leaving Olsen in during the 8th. It's nice to see some guys start to get the chance to clean up their own mess rather than have the bullpen make their mess even worse.
 
If the Indians (the 2nd worst team right now) remain at their current pace for the rest of year, the Nats can go 0.500 in their remaining 70 games and still get the #1 pick next year. Strasburg + Harper could be nice some day...if they can sign them.

 
Uh oh. Only 3 wins behind KC and Pittsburgh. They need that top pick again next year so they can draft Harper and not sign him.

 
Uh oh. Only 3 wins behind KC and Pittsburgh. They need that top pick again next year so they can draft Harper and not sign him.
Just out of curiousity- what are your thoughts on Harper and the "loss" to the organization if the Nats pull themselves out of 30th place? Personally, I'm not nearly as concerned about them losing the #1 spot here, because the organization is deep at C for many years to come with Flores and Norris and also because I'm not as sold on his talent as I am on Strasburg's. I'd much rather see them start looking to beef up at middle infield, where the organization is not only weak at the top but also paper-thin. This MLB.com piece has three SSs in the "ten names to watch for 2010" list.
 
Uh oh. Only 3 wins behind KC and Pittsburgh. They need that top pick again next year so they can draft Harper and not sign him.
Just out of curiousity- what are your thoughts on Harper and the "loss" to the organization if the Nats pull themselves out of 30th place? Personally, I'm not nearly as concerned about them losing the #1 spot here, because the organization is deep at C for many years to come with Flores and Norris and also because I'm not as sold on his talent as I am on Strasburg's. I'd much rather see them start looking to beef up at middle infield, where the organization is not only weak at the top but also paper-thin. This MLB.com piece has three SSs in the "ten names to watch for 2010" list.
i dont think anyone thinks Harper is a lock to stay at catcher. While he's apparently great at it,(catching). he has the bat to play 1B or a corner OF spot. Both options would save his knees and take better advantage of his athleticsm. And in baseball, i think you take the best player, regardless of position. (with very few exceptions).

 
Uh oh. Only 3 wins behind KC and Pittsburgh. They need that top pick again next year so they can draft Harper and not sign him.
Just out of curiousity- what are your thoughts on Harper and the "loss" to the organization if the Nats pull themselves out of 30th place? Personally, I'm not nearly as concerned about them losing the #1 spot here, because the organization is deep at C for many years to come with Flores and Norris and also because I'm not as sold on his talent as I am on Strasburg's. I'd much rather see them start looking to beef up at middle infield, where the organization is not only weak at the top but also paper-thin. This MLB.com piece has three SSs in the "ten names to watch for 2010" list.
i dont think anyone thinks Harper is a lock to stay at catcher. While he's apparently great at it,(catching). he has the bat to play 1B or a corner OF spot. Both options would save his knees and take better advantage of his athleticsm. And in baseball, i think you take the best player, regardless of position. (with very few exceptions).
Sure, of course. I certainly wasn't saying we should even think about taking anyone else at 1, if we pick there. I guess what I was saying is that last year I was rooting for us to lose late in the season so we could get Strasburg. I don't feel the same this year. I don't know if it's his youth, or our depth of young talent at C and maybe at 1B/OF, or my completely unfounded suspicion that he's on the juice. But something him seems off to me. Or maybe I'm just sick and tired of watching us lose, no matter who it means we might get a chance to draft.

 
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I'm always for winning. If they get the top pick, Harper should be a great addition. But, if they end up winning a few more, they can build other ways too. As they keep loading up on pitchers, they should be able to make some trades for infield help. And, who knows, maybe in a few years, some free agents won't puke at the thought of coming here.

 
Agree, I'm all for winning as much as possible, let the Pirates have Harper. If he pans out they can trade him to us for a few iffy minor leaguers.

Glad Strasburg signed and we can all move forward a little bit. Good to see he's smarter than that idiot Aaron Crow.

 
I didn't think it was possible but Dibble is just getting more and more unbearable to listen to

If he comes back to the booth next year I'm not watching. At all. It's just plain horrible. Bad enough the team sucks.

 
Maybe Nyjer Morgan being out the rest of the year will help them lock up that #1 pick.

Livan Hernandez is talking about possibly wanting to re-sign with the Nats next season. It would be nice to have a veteran pitcher in the rotation, but not sure if he's the guy. He'll be 35. They can have Lannan, Strasburg, Olsen, Stammen/Martis/Detwiler/Whoever, and either Hernandez or another vet FA in 2010. Zimmermann will miss all of next year, right?

 
I didn't think it was possible but Dibble is just getting more and more unbearable to listen toIf he comes back to the booth next year I'm not watching. At all. It's just plain horrible. Bad enough the team sucks.
:mellow: :P I heard him do a couple of Rockies games, and he's ungood.
 

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