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If you have an ounce of confidence and and are a bit aggressive it's like shooting fish in a waterless barrel. It's not hard to get laid within three days of dropping lines. I've regularly had sex with a girl the first time we met. Extremely limited game is required.
I've had the other experience, struck out often at these places. Not sure if it's just a sheer numbers thing... some girls I know on them say they get dozens of messages a day... or if it's just me. Thinking of getting back into this next month, I've dipped my toe in this thread a bit, is there a concise summary somewhere of how to set up a good profile and some decent advice on messaging? There's like 155 pages here to go through, and sometimes one good poster's advice is spread over 10 pages of idiot blather from Woz and co. Or maybe I should just turn my profile over to one of you guys to run for me.
Bump for sarnoff and others. Not everything in here must be followed to the letter but it's very good general advice. It's mostly a numbers game but you can increase the odds by aiming for certain ones. If her photos have few to no friends? Easy pickings. Black and white photos? Either an easy picking or she's the difficult artsy type. Lack of consistent smiles in the pictures? Again, easy kill. Talks heavily of wanting to finally meet a nice guy who will treat her right? Boom, in the bag. These chicks will generally throw themselves at you very quickly with extremely limited commitment from you. You still have to play your cards right (ie don't seem desperate for sex). This will also seek out the crazy. And Reginald is right when he says pay heavy attention to the angles they use for the pictures.Since my divorce 2.5 years ago, I've been honing my skills on these websites and done very well, and also been very disappointed - I've documented many of my encounters elsewhere under my former alias for those interested.
This thread is long and I haven't followed along until recently however just wanted to post some of my experiences with match and eharmony since my divorce to anyone who may find it useful. There's a lot of guys here, who know more than me - but I would put the count of women I've gone out with at around 50 in 2.5 years and the women I've "closed the deal" with at around 30% of that which is a decent success rate considering many of those un-pursued flings were of my choice...as a matter of fact, I've actually only gone out with 2 people I met at a bar without the assistance of an online site - so this can be exploited.
Let's begin:
Setting Up Your Profile:
A lot of this depends on what you are looking for. Are you just looking for some strange? Or are you seriously looking for the mother of your children? I'm not looking for the mother of my children so I can't speak to that unfortunately.
~ Photos: You've got to have a lot of them and you need more than just head shots. Make them recent and make them photos in which you are clearly having a good time. The photo taken BY you OF you is a tool move, especially if you're sitting in your car. I don't know why dudes do this. This is a chick thing to do. Get a photo of you standing with 4 of your buddies out at a bar, on a golf course, with a drink in your hand and smiling from ear to ear like you are having the best ####### time of your life. This tells the woman you are a fun guy and projects that you are young and vibrant and can probably last a long time in the sack. Again, no SELF photos - this tells the woman you are vain - ladies like a confident guy, not a stuck up guy.
If you are looking for strange, no photos with you and a dog under 20 pounds please (sorry Woz). You're only going to attract animal lovers who are too picky to find a guy and that's why they're using an online dating site to begin with. Lose the dog photos. These types of photos are cringe worthy for both guys and girls looking to get laid and project the opposite of sex appeal. If you must have a prop with you in the photo, have someone take an action shot of you shooting a basketball, or with an oversized mug of beer in your hand from Dave and Busters. Now you're fun and athletic. Only girls looking for their future husband want a sensitive guy - there's a LOT of women on these sites looking for a tryst, moreso on match than eHarmony FWIW.
Variety in your photos. Put one up of you in some sort of athletic gear or doing something athletic. Make sure there is a full body, if you have blue eyes make sure one accentuates your eyes; if you are a nice dresser, put a full body photo of you wearing your nicest get-up. This is really important...get yourself a photo with a HOT chick. I know a few hot chicks but don't really have any as friends, so when I'm out at a bar and there's a really hot waitress or patron I simply walked up to them and say hello and ask them for a photo since your friends are always busting your balls about never talking to women at the bar. Works every time. Just assure them it's not going on facebook, you're just texting it to your buddy Mike who is always ragging on you for not having enough confidence to talk to a woman. Get this photo up on match or eharmony. I promise you, 75% of women out there will look at the female in the photo and analyze whether or not she's good looking or not and then measure herself up to your companion in the photo. Feel free to put a caption in there: "Me with my friend Jen at the bar". The hotter the women you hang around with, the hotter the women you will attract.
When you do have photos of friends, make sure you don't have 10 photos of you and you're zit-faced, freckled, glasses-wearing, overweight good bud Ralph. Ralph might be the type of guy to drive out to you on I-95 when you run out of gas and help you out, but you need to exude popularity, and being in a photo with a bunch ofs is going to hurt your image. It sounds harsh - but it's true. The objective here is strange, not showing people you are a humanitarian by befriending strange looking humans.
Show your teeth in the photo. Chicks always dig guys with nice teeth. If you have nice teeth, show them when you smile. If you're teeth aren't bright, buy some whitening strips and get a photo up there 30 days later.
Finally, get a photo of you doing something wild and exciting: surfing, parasailing, sky diving. It doesn't even matter if it's you, just find a photo of some dude surfing where you can't see his face. She'll never notice - just tell her you love to surf and every time she invites you to the beach, feign sickness.
~ Your information section: Again, this entire post is assuming you're looking for a fling, not a wife.
Height: Always add an inch or 2 - she won't notice if you wear high top basketball sneakers anyway. I personally search for women at least 3 inches shorter than me and I've never been called on adding 2 inches if I follow this.
Interests: Don't put "book club" "chess" or "reading" here. I don't care if you've never been on the beach in your life, put "surfing", "playing basketball", and "going to concerts". You're projecting that you're an outgoing guy who isn't like every other guy on the planet who is really just interested in watching the Yankees and playing poker. You actually get out there and go surfing and play sports.
Want Kids: Someday is the answer here - no need to come off desperate here and say "Definitely". Some girls get scared away if you think your only focus is getting married and having kids. There's a LOT of overbearing/desperate guys on these websites who push the envelope with commitment and talking about having a family, not necessary - if you fall in love, those discussions will come organically.
Ethnicity: Feel free to go with "other" here if you're bold enough. Most Caucasians can get away with telling people they are a quarter puerto rican or something of that nature. It's a progressive world out there, chicks would love a guy that's not a cookie cutter white boy from the suburbs. You can play this off as you get more comfortable.
Smoke: The answer is no way, even if you do.
Political Views: Just go with middle of the road here.
~ About you:
I promise you, no greater reward will come than using a LOT of words to describe yourself here. The male profiles out there are generic and usually one paragraph long filled with terrible punctuation and misuse of homonyms. To the good looking women out there, that are also smart, this is a turn off. Be detailed and try to stray from typing the generic crap that everyone types. Everyone types in "I'm looking for someone that can make me laugh and be my best friend." Just get creative here and use as much of the space as possible. This will keep a girl reading, and make you stand out from the others who are just chasing a good time. Talking about the feeling of riding a wave for the first time, or crushing 50 hot wings in a hot wing eating contest to illustrate how daring and wild you are. You've got to be a standout in this regard. Big time.
Her profile:
Her Photos: It's been said a million times here, but no full body shots = no chance. I've learned the hard way after showing up to many first dates thinking I was walking into a situation with a cute girl with maybe 10-20 extra pounds and been absolutely shocked at the disproportionate size of the assets the female chooses NOT to show in the photos. If she has photos of her with her back to the camera and not facing front, she has an enormous stomach. If she has photos of her waist up, she has gigantic legs. If there's a photo of just her eyes, she likely looks like Gargamel from the Smurfs. Just move on - please trust me on this.
Also, try to find a girl who is very attractive but doesn't have the most attractive friends in her photos. Those friends probably have ugly boyfriends, and when you meet her friends for the first time, they will all convince her how good looking you are.
Her "Body Type": - It seems like in almost EVERY instance a girl always upgrades her body type status one direction to the positive side. I've met girls who claim to be "about average" and are NOWHERE close to "average". If they say "Curvy", they aren't Kim Kardashian curvy, they are "lumpy" at best. "A few extra pounds" means at least 50 extra pounds. Obviously there are exceptions, however, compare with the photos. If you see an array of photos that look like they are 5 years old compared to others, go with whatever appears to be the most recent. Obviously they do this to come off as more attractive. If you aren't into bigger women, then just stick to "Athletic and Toned" or "Skinny/Thin". If you are into bigger girls, than just ignore this entire post and more power to you - to his, his own and god bless ya.
About her: The opposite of what you're profile should contain. Look for something short and sweet. If she didn't take the time to fill it out completely or type an essay on who she is, she probably has lower standards. If she writes 3000 words in the "About Me" section, she's likely wound way too tightly to ever navigate quickly enough to close the deal. She's taking the online dating VERY seriously and weeding out the weeds and she's going to be highly selective with you unless you fit all of her criteria. I try to stay away. If you're looking for a long term relationship, I think the longer profiles are the way to go - that means they ARE serious about meeting someone for a long term thing and are a better match for a commitment-minded guy.
eHarmony vs. match:
I've spent extensive time on both. If you're looking for it to take a month to meet a girl, eHarmony is great. If you're looking to exchange maybe one or two emails and then go have a drink, you've got to go with match in that case.
The girls on eHarmony are on there because it is definitely more of an intensive process. You have 4 steps of "guided communication" that can take forever to get through. A lot of the girls on there aren't as outgoing either since eHarmony keeps your profile hidden from the general public while match does not. There are exceptions and I've had success with both sites, but far more success with match as far as getting to the end game quicker.
Match is also great because you can actually search for a body type, height, marital status, etc. It's cheaper too, if you're looking to save a buck. Match is the way to go for newly single guys looking to get out in the world and experience things.
Getting a date:
1 - If she contacts you, don't respond right away. Always give it 24-48 hours in between getting back to here. It screams desperation otherwise.
2 - NEVER take a girl to dinner on a first date; ALWAYS "meet for a drink or two" as the first meeting point. This is non-negotiable. With a drink or two, things are VERY open ended - you aren't confined to the cook and waiter's time frame and can be loose with how long you stay. If you date enough, you WILL run into the occasional person who looks nothing like their photos and weighs about 50 pounds more. It's happened to me, and those are the nights where I grab a drink to be polite and set the expectation that it's JUST a drink because that's what you feel most comfortable with. After one drink, simply let them know you don't like to drive drunk so one drink is your limit and you're looking forward to an actual date with them later in the week.
Let's say best case scenario, and the chick really is smoking during your drink meetup. You can stay for 2-3 drinks. You can also sit at a bar with them and read their body language a lot easier. If you think she's interested, try "accidentally" touching your leg to hers and see if she pulls away. It's a good sign if she doesn't. It's a good sign also if her bar stool ends up practically facing you as opposed to having the close off body language of facing the other way. You can't get this read sitting across from each other at a restaurant. This is really important to me. You can tell so much by doing the "have a drink or two and sit next to each other on our own time constraint." If it's going REALLY well, suggest you go somewhere else - another bar perhaps. Do your research and if there's another bar close by with a band playing, mention that. If she's totally up for it, you are well on your way - and she's also a little drunk by this time hopefully.
I can't stress the "meet for a drink" enough as a first point of meeting. I've closed the deal on night one before, but I've also been able to only waste 10 minutes of my life by using this method and hightailing it out of there is the girl was nothing like she represented herself to be.
There's obviously a science to this, and I'll probably add more to it as I think of things. I've ended up in Long Term relationships too just by approaching these things just like described above. Sometimes it happens, but it's much better that way if you approach things nonchalantly with the mission of hooking up first in my opinion.
Yeah, trying to go through this thread for something concise could take you years and cost millions of lives. I would suggest writing up one and posting it here - you'll get lots of good advice on tweaking it.edit: or you could read Reg's post Dr A just dug up
Still, I would post whatever you write up here for some feedback. Also, if you have any female friends, have them look it over too.
- bottom heavy. Point being if you meet a girl in a bar, make sure you see their full profile standing before you approach.
stories for the FFA >>>> leaving mad talker alone at bar >>>> sects with mad drunk talkeris that right?Alright, kids.Well, to start out, this girl had the face of Lindsay Lohan (I'm serious...there were points last night that I couldn't tell the difference), and a nice, tiny, but tight little body. That was a nice surprise.So, I'm thinking...hey, this isn't going to be so bad!And then, she opened her mouth. This was the kind of girl that wasn't going to let you get a word in at ALL. Okay, so I've been on dates with these kinds of girls before. I position myself so I can look at her and listen to Sportscenter at the same time, and all was good.But, it wasn't.You see, every story this girl (who was 4'11", 89 pounds) told started out with, "Oh, I was so trashed..." and ended up with "Yeah, and then I threw up in..."So after about two drinks, I'm just staying for story value (to give you guys something to read). She lives in a smallish town, so there's only three bars open on Sunday night, and there's nobody in them. In every bar we went to, the bartenders looked at me with a certain degree of pity...because as small as this girl is, she's not quiet. Her stories are booming throughout every bar we were in, which is why I was particularly glad the town was pretty dead last night.Then, we figure out that we have the same birthday, and she goes off on that for about 30 minutes. After that, and the fact that she's now visibly drunk, I'm thinking it's time to leave, because I just can't take it anymore.I take her home, she gives me the whole "are you okay to drive? You can just stay here thing...", but I take the opening and tell her I'm just fine, and it won't be a big deal to drive the 20 minutes home. I was tempted to go up, but I don't even think sex was worth listening to this girl for what could've been hours on end afterward.It's too bad, too. She was really cute.
Rereading this thread has been awesome.
I'm late to the party....I probably have a good 130 pages or so to catch up on but looking forward to it next time I'm stuck in the airport.
Oh my. Do NOT send this.
They're right. Don't give her a choice. Tell her what you want.
My preface is that I'm 49 years old and the women I'm after may be different, but this sounds really bad no matter the age. No offense....
You're absolutely right. That is a email so awful only woz in his anti-prime could have come up with something worse. I thought Bucky was waiting for the chick? LA to SF?My preface is that I'm 49 years old and the women I'm after may be different, but this sounds really bad no matter the age. No offense....
Bucky, listen to Dr A - seriously.You're absolutely right. That is a email so awful only woz in his anti-prime could have come up with something worse. I thought Bucky was waiting for the chick? LA to SF?My preface is that I'm 49 years old and the women I'm after may be different, but this sounds really bad no matter the age. No offense....
This isn't THAT bad, although it could use some touching up. The bigger issue is that slight problem of the 500 mile distance between the two of them.'Dr. Awesome said:You're absolutely right. That is a email so awful only woz in his anti-prime could have come up with something worse. I thought Bucky was waiting for the chick? LA to SF?'Uruk-Hai said:My preface is that I'm 49 years old and the women I'm after may be different, but this sounds really bad no matter the age. No offense....'Bucky86 said:'Uruk-Hai said:
Sounds like you should be skeptical. I've been burned too by giving a gal the benefit of the doubt by saying "well maybe her bad photo was the exception, or taken on a bad day." I learned the hard way to not think that any more. Just meet up for drinks, or do something quick the first time you meet her so if the pics don't match reality you don't invest a lot of time in the meeting. Good luck.
Always keep in mind that when a girl posts pics for her profile, they're normally said girl at her absolute best. It's normally downhill from there.
Agreed. I plan on meeting her at a local bar for drinks this week. If she looks alright and we hit it off, we can always extend it into a second drink and maybe eat at the bar. And if she isn't my cup of tea, I'm gone after 30/45 minutes. This is always the correct play here.One thing I've also found regarding pictures, be very leery of photos of chicks at weddings... particularly bridesmaids. For their normal, everyday look, you can generally deduct 2 points from the hotness scale versus how they look all done-up at the wedding.
I hear ya on the bridesmaid stuff. Other part about pictures (for those of us dating women in their 30's) is trying to figure out whether they are current, or from a few years ago. One gal had photos of herself posted that were clearly from her younger years. I know they're trying to get a date, but ultimately the guy is going to see how she actually looks so in the long run it's not going to help their cause.
No suggestions for an actual name but in general you want to keep it related to your profession if it's interesting (which yours seems to be but it's LA...lots of folks in the movies) but definitely make it sound like you're a fun, energetic, and outgoing guy. And spell it correctly. No texting shtick unless you're going for the teens.I've seen some awful ones before. shyguy, Mr. Misanthrope, Dood4u, etc. Don't be those guys. Mine was 'DudeWithaDog'. You could go for some humor but that could turn off a lot of women. Really don't sweat it. Most of the time they won't care/notice. Throw out whatever name and some numbers behind it. It's the picture where you'll capture their initial attention.
Throw out whatever name and some numbers behind it. It's the picture where you'll capture their initial attention.
If it's unique or hard to 'get' at first, that's a win also. It's going to be a huge hit for people who get it, and people that don't won't even notice.
Very bad idea. Guys don't care too much if you blink. They want to see the body. One picture sends a big red flag. If/when you get back in the market you should definitely have at least 2 pictures. 4+ is ideal.
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Yes but women don't see it as false advertising. They're in some fairytale world where they lure you in with a BS/old/lighter picture under the assumption that you'll fall head over heels in spite of her fivehead/+30lbs/bubbateeth because she's a princess. The upside for their fragile psyche is when you run for the hills realizing the product in the packaging doesn't match the photo on the box, she can easily write you off as a "typical male ###hole" and go about her day completely ignoring the fact that she brought it upon herself. For this reason, I used to run (not walk) from anyone talking about wanting a guy who was different/not-typical.
You're absolutely right. That is a email so awful only woz in his anti-prime could have come up with something worse. I thought Bucky was waiting for the chick? LA to SF?My preface is that I'm 49 years old and the women I'm after may be different, but this sounds really bad no matter the age. No offense....
Unfortunately, I gotta agree. Just keep it short, simple, assertive. If you have a good joke to make based on what's in their profile, then do it (Dr. A actually has some good examples of this). Otherwise don't. If you made it to the open communication stage you can only #### it up.
Yep, any girl who deflects all blame on every guy she has dated or been turned down by (e.g. "I've only dated #######s" or "all the guys I meet are only interested in one thing" or "I'm ready for a nice guy") are delusional crazies. However, a decent percentage of these probably put out quickly. Proceed with caution.
'Dr. Awesome said:
...Although I am scared of the chicks that have 10+ photos of themselves. At that point, you just seem like a camera-phone wielding, narcissistic PIA.
Really? I don't see it as a huge deal. Most chicks have tons of pictures these days.
Yeah, as long as they're not all (or mostly) self-shots.
I'm an avid reader. As much as I like loose women, I spend 90% of my free time with a book in hand. This may sound awful, but one of the first things I look for is what they list as their favorite book. If they state "US Weekly" or some gossip rag, I close it out. If they mentioned Dan Brown or Janet Evanovich or that ####### Chelsea Handler book that every chick has read, I close it out.Personal preference, but I need a super smart chick to keep me interested otherwise I get completely bored after 2-3 days if there's no sex. Something to keep an eye on if you are of the same ilk. Point being - don't just gloss over things like that if you are picky.
You lost me here.
If she's not giving it up after 2-3 dates and she has no personality? I lose interest.
Before that it was Eat, Pray, Love. And before that it was The Kite Runner. And before that it was The Da Vinci Code.
I take it "stage 4" is eHarmony-speak? What exactly is it?Who was the last person to message? How long ago was it?
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