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Vick Indicted ! ?


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Personally I am expecting the League or Falcons will convince him that he "needs some time off to devote his energies to his legal issues" and he will have some sort of leave of absence that will extend until his trial is complete. The distractions and negative publicity would be too damaging for the NFL and the falcons, not to mention vick himself. My question is whether it would be leave with or without pay.

isn't he already doing this to some extent? i thought there was a football camp he was supposed to be at about 2 weeks ago that he ducked out of.
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He won't upset your team chemistry, he won't be a distraction to your fantasy team, you won't have protests. The truth is passing on Vick won't make a difference at all to the world. It may, however, put you a step closer to knowing that if the stakes ever REALLY mattered, you'd make the right choice about the kind of people you'd support.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think we should not be mixing fantasy and reality. Aside from the issue of whether Vick would actually be on the field, I would not have an issue with drafting Vick. He is not benefiting in any way from my selection -- as you said, he'll have no idea he is on my team. Having him on my team does noy mean I support him. I understand tyhat some people can't stand the thought of having him on their team and I get that and respect that. But to suggest that it in anyway influences your real life choices, makes you a better person,etc - that I don't subscribe to personally.
I agree, but no matter what a player does, some people will forgive them based on their on-the-field performance. Example is the way that most Cowboys fans have embraced that ^%$@* TO and forgiven him the crap that he'd pulled in the past. There will be those fans who stick up for Vick, not because he's innocent until proven guilty, but because he runs the ball really, really well. And that's a sad commentary on our society.

There's no way I'd take a chance with him on my FF team. I doubt he'll produce this year even if he does play.

-Dave

That is sad. That will not be me, for sure. Your reason for not taking a chance is like what I was saying -- it is related simply to what he will do for your team's success.

btw, was listening to Steven A Smith's show earlier and he took two calls in a row from people minimizing how bad dog fighting is. It was pretty scary. Fortunately Steven A nd his co-host let them both really have it.

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I disagree there. IIRC, Tank and Pacman's charges were based on incidents that took place PRIOR to the shift in league policy, and they were suspended based on the new rules, not grandfathered in under the old conduct policy.

IIRC, both had legal outcomes or criminal charges that occurred AFTER the new policy was put in place.Tank Johnson plead guilty after the new policy was put in force.Pac Man Jones had charges filed after the new policy was set up.Chris Henry had already plead guilty but then was charged for other issues after the new policy was invoked.I suppose anything is possible, but the guys that have been suspended all had things happen after the new policy was put in force (even if some infractions happened before the policy kicked in). And all of these players met the contingencies of (1) having plead or been found guilty or (2) been charged multiple times with criminal activities.Vick has not met either of those criteria (as I interpret the policy rules as they stand currently). Maybe the NFL and NFLPA can retroactively change the rules, but as it stands now based on the criteria mentioned here Vick doesn't fit.Maybe they can snag him on something else (lying to the commish, gambling, conduct unbecoming, etc.).
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I have to disagree with Dodds and Yudkin on this one. I don't think there's any way Vick is on the field when the season starts. The Commissioner has a lot of latitude in dealing out suspensions, he has repeatedly referred to the image of the game as his overriding principle, and this Vick mess is a major black eye to the league. He simply can't ignore this while waiting for an actual conviction. Remember, due process (innocent until proven guilty) is a legal concept, and the NFL is not bound by the same standards when suspending players.

This is Footballguys, everything revolves around evaluating talent and projections. God bless Dodds and Yudkin but they are smokin somin if they think the NFL wants to put up with any more Vick BS. Go back to work fellas and adjust your damn projections for christ sakes and wake up, respectfully of course.
I already changed my mind after reading the detailed indictment. I think at a minimum Blank benches Vick now. I am in the camp that I doubt he plays this season.
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I don't understand how he can be considered a first time offender by the league. We got the pot smelling water bottle, middle finger to the fans, Ron Mexico, and no-show in Congress incidents to take into consideration as well.

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I disagree there. IIRC, Tank and Pacman's charges were based on incidents that took place PRIOR to the shift in league policy, and they were suspended based on the new rules, not grandfathered in under the old conduct policy.

Actually Tank was suspended due to actually having the criminal charge adjudicated and being found guilty, whereas Pac Man's lies somewhere in between the failure to report criminal activity and multiple offenses part of the personal conduct policy.Vick is not being charged in multiple offenses currently though that could be a matter of time, and he is not failing to report the criminal activity as he had a meeting with the commissioner in April during the draft where they discussed this. However, the media also stated Vick denied all connection to this in April, and this may upset Goodell as he lied to him in this conversation. In the actual Indictment Vick is named as running the illegal activity as recent as April 2007 ; this will probably not set well with the commissioner.I really think the League and Ownership will scrutinize the policy as this will be walking on unprecedented ground and going forward.
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Vick arraignment set for July 26

Vick to be arraigned on July 26

July 18, 2007

RICHMOND, VIRGINIA (TICKER) -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury in connection with the dog fighting probe of his property in Virginia, will be arraigned on July 26.

Vick will have a bond hearing 30 minutes prior to his arraignment before United States District Judge Henry E. Hudson at 4 p.m. EDT.

On the same day of Vick's court date, the Falcons begin training camp in Flowery Branch, Georgia.

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I don't understand how he can be considered a first time offender by the league. We got the pot smelling water bottle, middle finger to the fans, Ron Mexico, and no-show in Congress incidents to take into consideration as well.

The league code of conduct policies are clearly defined and outline criminial incidents. They care about criminal charges being brought against a player. None of the incidents you mentioned involved the filing of any formal criminal charges through the law enforcement and legal system.
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It would be very tough for a team to go into camp and through practice each week with a leader who may or may not be there the next week.

I concur that this whole ordeal will be very distracting to the team, but I don't fully agree with the "may or may not be there the next week" part.I would guess we will know pretty quickly what the league and the team intend to do. Either they will act or they will wait for the court to do its thing. If they elect to wait, Vick will likely be there from week to week until the trial gets going.I read somewhere today that once the initial grand jury session is over it would likely be 4-6 months until a trial started. That could easily put things into the next calender year.so the team and the league will either have acted or not acted by then and I doubt they will revisit their decision from week to week.
I'm thinking more of court appearances, depositions, and a variety of meetings and conferences with his legal team, etc... Not just his possible team or league suspension. And a trial set for 4-6 monhts down the stretch could be right smack dab in the middle of a playoff run or playoffs themselves. All I am saying is that there will be a ton possible distractions that the rest of the team will have to deal with, not just Vick. I thik it will have a negative effect on the team as a whole, unless it's a known fact that the will not be there, in which case sooner is better. I believe the smartest move is an immediate team suspension with pay until the NFL rules on it and the charges sort themselves out. That way the team is protected from the insecurity of it all, the public perception will be that the team is disatanciing themselves from him until the truth is known, and should Vick be found innocent there is no legal recourse for unlawful suspension.
This is the kind of thing I was thinking about when I posted about the team's insecurities as to whether Vick will be there week to week. No matter what, it will affect his preparation for the season. Of course, maybe getting Joey some reps in practice isn't such a terrible idea...

On the same day of Vick's court date, the Falcons begin training camp in Flowery Branch, Georgia.

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Here is a league response in regards to Pac-Man.

“It is not enough to simply avoid being found guilty of a crime,” the new policy says. “Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the league is based, and is lawful.

“Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime.”

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Here is a league response in regards to Pac-Man.“It is not enough to simply avoid being found guilty of a crime,” the new policy says. “Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the league is based, and is lawful.“Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime.”

So by that definition Vick is toast unless beating and killing animals for fun and spreading STD's under false names promote the values upon which the league is based.
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- Play him. I've been listening to talk radio and tv last night and this morning and that seems to be the outcome that many are predicting, but I also see this one as a P.R. nightmare if that came to bear. It could turn into a 3-ring circus and could be detrimental to other players if protesters got rowdy.

Also, how do his teammates react to all of this? Warrick Dunn is a pretty standup guy. What will he think of this and how will he treat Vick? How can Vick be a leader on the field if his guys don't respect him or revile him?
Just heard on espn form Mortenson that Blank is an avid dog Lover...this will really make him sick. I am sure most of his teamates are also own dogs and love them. i just see no outs for Vick.
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I disagree there. IIRC, Tank and Pacman's charges were based on incidents that took place PRIOR to the shift in league policy, and they were suspended based on the new rules, not grandfathered in under the old conduct policy.

IIRC, both had legal outcomes or criminal charges that occurred AFTER the new policy was put in place.Tank Johnson plead guilty after the new policy was put in force.Pac Man Jones had charges filed after the new policy was set up.Chris Henry had already plead guilty but then was charged for other issues after the new policy was invoked.I suppose anything is possible, but the guys that have been suspended all had things happen after the new policy was put in force (even if some infractions happened before the policy kicked in). And all of these players met the contingencies of (1) having plead or been found guilty or (2) been charged multiple times with criminal activities.Vick has not met either of those criteria (as I interpret the policy rules as they stand currently). Maybe the NFL and NFLPA can retroactively change the rules, but as it stands now based on the criteria mentioned here Vick doesn't fit.Maybe they can snag him on something else (lying to the commish, gambling, conduct unbecoming, etc.).
Vick sat face to face with the commissioner at the end of April and adamnantly denied any knowledge or participation in dog fighting.Yet he is accused of brutally killing 8 dogs in the same month of April.They can use whatever reason they feel works in public, but Vick will not play in 2007. Allowing any player to diss the Commissioner like this would set an extremely bad precedent.He will be suspended before training camp starts next week.
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- Play him. I've been listening to talk radio and tv last night and this morning and that seems to be the outcome that many are predicting, but I also see this one as a P.R. nightmare if that came to bear. It could turn into a 3-ring circus and could be detrimental to other players if protesters got rowdy.

Also, how do his teammates react to all of this? Warrick Dunn is a pretty standup guy. What will he think of this and how will he treat Vick? How can Vick be a leader on the field if his guys don't respect him or revile him?
Just heard on espn form Mortenson that Blank is an avid dog Lover...this will really make him sick. I am sure most of his teamates are also own dogs and love them. i just see no outs for Vick.
Different situations but I used to work on Deadwood on occasion where Jeffrey Jones worked as well. The actor who played the principal on Ferrris Bueller's Day Off was convicted o kiddie porn and had tens of thousands of images of underage boys on his computer. I wasn't full time so I don't know how it was all the time but I know there were concerns whenver there were young boys on the set and personally I would never go near him and refused to make eye contact with him. Someone despicable like that in your midst is a distraction. And there may be some guys on the team who are into it and don't see a problem, but a lot of guys on that team are going to have trouble dealing with him as a leader.
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Mort is now saying that Blank will do whatever is best for the perception of his team and it's business concerns. A far cry from whoever posted that Mort was saying he would not be suspended this season. I really think Mort should just back off this story and let someone more credible deal with it. He said that Blank went out of the country believeing that Vick would not be indicted and now has to deal with it from out of the country. Guess who told him there would be no indictment? Mort. Poor info here.

And for those of you saying ESPN is soft on this story, 10 minutes in and they have talked about nothign else and are coming back to it after the break.

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Mort is now saying that Blank will do whatever is best for the perception of his team and it's business concerns. A far cry from whoever posted that Mort was saying he would not be suspended this season. I really think Mort should just back off this story and let someone more credible deal with it. He said that Blank went out of the country believeing that Vick would not be indicted and now has to deal with it from out of the country. Guess who told him there would be no indictment? Mort. Poor info here.

And for those of you saying ESPN is soft on this story, 10 minutes in and they have talked about nothign else and are coming back to it after the break.

It was my understanding that it was Mort that was told by Atlanta officials and leagues sources originally that there would be no indictment. My take is that the Feds were asked by the Falcons and the NFL whether or not Vick was going to be indicted and the Feds may have said something like "no indictments are pending" or something else as non-committal.
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Now now he hasn't been convickted of anything yet. Innocent until proven guilty. Due process and all that other mess.

Vick posts on FBG?And this bears repeating:

convickted

Wow. Just wow.
:goodposting::lmao: At first I thought he couldn't spell, but then I realized maybe the VICK was on purpose. At least I'm hoping so.
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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.

Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

Ooof. Gotta source or link for this?
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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

I'm pretty sure a huge portion of these were plead down to lesser charges which goes in the books as a conviction.I'd be interested to learn what % of them ever went to trial. We know that based on the math that 4,350 went to court and were found not guilty. If 10,000 of them were actually cases that were tried, that's a 43.5% loss rate for cases played out in court.
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embraced that ^%$@* TO and forgiven him the crap that he'd pulled in the past

TO did felony things and killed dogs ? I didn't remember that !Notice the coincidence of his court date with opening day of training camp ! Thats PLANNED folks, the Powers that Be are getting ready to make a big example of Vick - the hammer will fall very hard on this thug
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- Play him. I've been listening to talk radio and tv last night and this morning and that seems to be the outcome that many are predicting, but I also see this one as a P.R. nightmare if that came to bear. It could turn into a 3-ring circus and could be detrimental to other players if protesters got rowdy.

Also, how do his teammates react to all of this? Warrick Dunn is a pretty standup guy. What will he think of this and how will he treat Vick? How can Vick be a leader on the field if his guys don't respect him or revile him?
Just heard on espn form Mortenson that Blank is an avid dog Lover...this will really make him sick. I am sure most of his teamates are also own dogs and love them. i just see no outs for Vick.
Different situations but I used to work on Deadwood on occasion where Jeffrey Jones worked as well. The actor who played the principal on Ferrris Bueller's Day Off was convicted o kiddie porn and had tens of thousands of images of underage boys on his computer. I wasn't full time so I don't know how it was all the time but I know there were concerns whenver there were young boys on the set and personally I would never go near him and refused to make eye contact with him. Someone despicable like that in your midst is a distraction. And there may be some guys on the team who are into it and don't see a problem, but a lot of guys on that team are going to have trouble dealing with him as a leader.
Different situations, sure, but the point remains that an issue that affects one, can affect all (or many). Vick's teammates will need to deal with daily questions about dogfighting, did they know, what do they think, blah bla blah -- that can take it's toll on a team without even factoring in how they might feel indivdually about the crime.

That locker room will go two ways with or without Vick - either band together or fall apart. Either they will circle the wagons and focus as a group or they will let the tension get to them and spend the season sniping at anyone and anything. And it'll happen whether Vick is ther or not, but as you point out with your example, even once it's over, there are still aftershocks.

on a tangent, what did you do on Deadwood? Work in the biz, so just professional curiosity.

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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

I'm pretty sure a huge portion of these were plead down to lesser charges which goes in the books as a conviction.I'd be interested to learn what % of them ever went to trial. We know that based on the math that 4,350 went to court and were found not guilty. If 10,000 of them were actually cases that were tried, that's a 43.5% loss rate for cases played out in court.
What?????There is absolutely no logic here!
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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

I'm pretty sure a huge portion of these were plead down to lesser charges which goes in the books as a conviction.I'd be interested to learn what % of them ever went to trial. We know that based on the math that 4,350 went to court and were found not guilty. If 10,000 of them were actually cases that were tried, that's a 43.5% loss rate for cases played out in court.
What?????There is absolutely no logic here!
Let's try again. There were 435K cases. 99% resulted in convictions which means that 4,350 people got off. Let's say 425K of the 435K cases were concluded by pleading to a lesser charge and making a deal. That still counts as a conviction. That would leave 10,000 cases that actually went to court. (I have no idea what number of cases went to court, I'm just making up numbers.)If 4,350 people got off, I'm assuming they were tried and found not guilty (unless the feds for some reason dropped the charges completely before going to court which I find unlikely). So I am assuming that those 4,350 were found not guilty after going through a trial (or a number close to that). Depending upon how many cases were decided at trial would determine how well the feds did in actually TRYING cases.I'm sure most of the people in federal court cases did not have the financial resources that Michael Vick does, nor did they have the legal team that he will be able to assemble. I'm pretty sure Vick would have a great defense team, so I am not 100% sure that he would automatically lose. I certainly have no idea what evidence the feds have and can't speculate what would happen.I'd be interested to know that X amount of defendents were found not guilty out of Y amount of cases that were resolved in actual court decisions.
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I can't wait for the next "Longest Yard" movie.

MEAN MACHINE! MEAN MACHINE! MEAN MACHINE!

Vick drops back to pass, double pumps and hits Rae Carruth for a 60 yard touchdown!

Vick tries to sneak out of the stadium and in a scene of poetic justice is mauled to death by a prison guard dog.

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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

I'm pretty sure a huge portion of these were plead down to lesser charges which goes in the books as a conviction.I'd be interested to learn what % of them ever went to trial. We know that based on the math that 4,350 went to court and were found not guilty. If 10,000 of them were actually cases that were tried, that's a 43.5% loss rate for cases played out in court.
What?????There is absolutely no logic here!
Let's try again. There were 435K cases. 99% resulted in convictions which means that 4,350 people got off. Let's say 425K of the 435K cases were concluded by pleading to a lesser charge and making a deal. That still counts as a conviction. That would leave 10,000 cases that actually went to court. (I have no idea what number of cases went to court, I'm just making up numbers.)If 4,350 people got off, I'm assuming they were tried and found not guilty (unless the feds for some reason dropped the charges completely before going to court which I find unlikely). So I am assuming that those 4,350 were found not guilty after going through a trial (or a number close to that). Depending upon how many cases were decided at trial would determine how well the feds did in actually TRYING cases.I'm sure most of the people in federal court cases did not have the financial resources that Michael Vick does, nor did they have the legal team that he will be able to assemble. I'm pretty sure Vick would have a great defense team, so I am not 100% sure that he would automatically lose. I certainly have no idea what evidence the feds have and can't speculate what would happen.I'd be interested to know that X amount of defendents were found not guilty out of Y amount of cases that were resolved in actual court decisions.
Yah, Scooter Libby, Ken Lay and that Worldcom guy thought their money would get them off too.
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Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.

Thus, one might conclude that Vick has about a 1% chance of NOT being convickted, which probably means he has even less chance of keeping his career.

I'm pretty sure a huge portion of these were plead down to lesser charges which goes in the books as a conviction.

I'd be interested to learn what % of them ever went to trial. We know that based on the math that 4,350 went to court and were found not guilty. If 10,000 of them were actually cases that were tried, that's a 43.5% loss rate for cases played out in court.

While your statement is mathematically problematic, I know what you are trying to say. Here is an expansion of the data:

From the Pittsburgh Tribune Review:

About 95 percent of federal criminal defendants plead guilty. Of the remaining few who fight in court, nearly nine of 10 are convicted, according to national statistics.

[...]

Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted.

Link: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...n/s_464095.html

It is important to note that when drug offences are included, the number goes down somewhat, due to the fact that drug charges have a significantly lower conviction rate (about 80%). This is demonstrated by the following, from the USDOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics:

During 2004, criminal cases were commenced against 92,645 defendants in U.S. district court. Most (88%) were charged with a felony offense. Thirty-seven percent of felony defendants were charged with a drug offense; 36% of all defendants were charged with a public-order offense -- including 19% with an immigration offense and 11% with a weapons offense. Fifteen percent were charged with a property offense.

Cases were terminated against 83,391 defendants during 2004. Most (90%) defendants were convicted. Of the 74,782 defendants convicted, 72,152 (or 96%) pleaded guilty or no-contest.

Link: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/fed.htm

And directly from the USDOJ:

90% or more of the felony cases closed resulted in a felony or misdemeanor conviction.

Link: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/psc01.txt

So even in the most optimistic circumstance, there is a 9-out-of-10 chance that Micheal Vick will be convickted (sic).

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http://www.cnn.com/

headline news is all about dog fighting right now

Vick WILL be the poster child of dog fighting and the ramifications of doing it.

Vick, because of the HUGE popular hatred of his involvement, will lose most everything he has, first off his NFL career, his marketing, the words "Vick" will have little value unless he does something extrordinary to fix it, the damage is done and is snowballing to avalanche proportions

Vick, as the NFL QB, is dead, RIP Vick

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I live outside of Atlanta now, and on the news last night they showed an interview of an informant saying that less than a year ago he saw Vick at a dog fighting event and that he would often bet as much as 40k on a dogfight. This person is also going to testify against Vick.

I know that means he is probably guilty of something and trying to get a deal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.

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http://www.cnn.com/

headline news is all about dog fighting right now

Vick WILL be the poster child of dog fighting and the ramifications of doing it.

Vick, because of the HUGE popular hatred of his involvement, will lose most everything he has, first off his NFL career, his marketing, the words "Vick" will have little value unless he does something extrordinary to fix it, the damage is done and is snowballing to avalanche proportions

Vick, as the NFL QB, is dead, RIP Vick

What exactly has Vick done to deserve the "P"?
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I disagree there. IIRC, Tank and Pacman's charges were based on incidents that took place PRIOR to the shift in league policy, and they were suspended based on the new rules, not grandfathered in under the old conduct policy.

IIRC, both had legal outcomes or criminal charges that occurred AFTER the new policy was put in place.Tank Johnson plead guilty after the new policy was put in force.Pac Man Jones had charges filed after the new policy was set up.Chris Henry had already plead guilty but then was charged for other issues after the new policy was invoked.I suppose anything is possible, but the guys that have been suspended all had things happen after the new policy was put in force (even if some infractions happened before the policy kicked in). And all of these players met the contingencies of (1) having plead or been found guilty or (2) been charged multiple times with criminal activities.Vick has not met either of those criteria (as I interpret the policy rules as they stand currently). Maybe the NFL and NFLPA can retroactively change the rules, but as it stands now based on the criteria mentioned here Vick doesn't fit.Maybe they can snag him on something else (lying to the commish, gambling, conduct unbecoming, etc.).
Vick sat face to face with the commissioner at the end of April and adamnantly denied any knowledge or participation in dog fighting.Yet he is accused of brutally killing 8 dogs in the same month of April.They can use whatever reason they feel works in public, but Vick will not play in 2007. Allowing any player to diss the Commissioner like this would set an extremely bad precedent.He will be suspended before training camp starts next week.
Vick was indicted on the charges, he has not been found guilty, or plead guilty to any of those charges....him denying to the Commish knowledge or participation in dog fighting....is probably the same thing he is going to do in court. So who is to say unless he is found guilty he lied to the Commish.
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Oh, and I mistakenly left out the best overall indicator and data source, which is the DOJ's 2005 Fiscal Statistics statement, which observes:

ALL CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS

91 percent conviction rate

83 percent of convicted defendants sentenced to prison

51 percent of prison sentences greater than 3 years

Link: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/reading_room/rep...5/05statrpt.pdf

Essentially, the words you never want to read are: United States of America vs. <insert your name here>
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http://www.cnn.com/

headline news is all about dog fighting right now

Vick WILL be the poster child of dog fighting and the ramifications of doing it.

Vick, because of the HUGE popular hatred of his involvement, will lose most everything he has, first off his NFL career, his marketing, the words "Vick" will have little value unless he does something extrordinary to fix it, the damage is done and is snowballing to avalanche proportions

Vick, as the NFL QB, is dead, RIP Vick

He was DOA to the NFL.
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Oh, and I mistakenly left out the best overall indicator and data source, which is the DOJ's 2005 Fiscal Statistics statement, which observes:

ALL CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS

91 percent conviction rate

83 percent of convicted defendants sentenced to prison

51 percent of prison sentences greater than 3 years

Link: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/reading_room/rep...5/05statrpt.pdf

Essentially, the words you never want to read are: United States of America vs. <insert your name here>
Especially if your name is Ookie.
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Looks like the Falcons will have to be the ones to step up to discipline Vick . . .

The Associated Press reported that a person with knowledge of a meeting between the Falcons and Goodell, who requested anonymity so the case would not be influenced, said the NFL would let the legal process determine the facts for now, despite its new personal conduct policy.

The NFL Players Association issued a similar statement, saying "this case is now in the hands of the judicial system, and we have to allow the legal process to run its course."

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Looks like the Falcons will have to be the ones to step up to discipline Vick . . .

The Associated Press reported that a person with knowledge of a meeting between the Falcons and Goodell, who requested anonymity so the case would not be influenced, said the NFL would let the legal process determine the facts for now, despite its new personal conduct policy.

The NFL Players Association issued a similar statement, saying "this case is now in the hands of the judicial system, and we have to allow the legal process to run its course."

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Way to skirt their responsibility. They're gonna open up a huge can of worms with their recent actions with other players and their lack of action here. Goodell was off to a good start this year with his previous discipline. However, this is incredibly disturbing that they can't step up and here. There is no question that Vick lied to Goodell about his knowledge of what was going on. No doubt. To allow him to step foot on the playing field after having done so is embarrassing. Shame on the NFL. Let's see if Blank can be as much of a coward to protect this human waste.
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Vick is done. We can close this thread now.

I thought the same about the Duke lacrosse players. I guess the NFL players are now guilty until proven innocent.
Apples and oranges. One eyewitness account in a state case vs. multiple informants, physical evidence, dogfighting tools, dead dogs in a federal indictment. Two different stories. The only way Vick is found not guilty (do not confuse with innocent) is through some loophole his megamillion dollar attorneys help him skate through.
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