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Vick Indicted ! ?


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Hmmm, doesn't look all that good for Mike.I thought i remember reading that when the feds indict that the conviction rate is high. Anyone know anymore about that?I was one of the most vocal people stating that we shouldn't jump the gun until we've seen some decent evidence, and i still think that approach was right, but after reading that indictment i've jumped ship to the other side.He might get off due to having great lawyers, but it's pretty clear he had involvement.

Exsqueeze me? You've been a proponent of "not jumping the gun?!" Allow me to present your response to the feds investigation...

UPDATE, MR VICK IS INNOCENT ON ALL CHARGES, VICK HATERS LOSE ONCE AGAIN. Better luck next time, maybe he'll get caught jaywalking next week and a 14 page thread where people can vent their hate for him can start once again.To the above poster who said that no one is on their radar at this point....court documents were filed, i may be crazy but i assume that there were names on those documents, and none of those names were MVP Vick.LOCK THIS THREAD MODS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE ANYMORE. All this has been is a witch hunt with absolutely no basis in reality.God bless you Mike Vick, please don't think everyone is out to get you.

You've been an undying proponent of Vick's innocence, no matter what news story broke. Calling it a witch hunt and direct assualt on Vick's character. And you challenged all the "haters" to man up and apologize even though no indictments had been handed out. Maybe you didn't jump the gun to convict him, but you sure jumped the gun condemning all those that thought , based on increasing stories of his involvement, that Vick was dirty. Jumping the gun works both ways and you called out a lot of people who have turned out to be right in their belief that the feds would come down on Vick.. Revisionist history my friend doesn't cut it in the Shark Pool. Man up, admit you went way overboard on the ProVick Bandwagon despite increasing odds against him.
Obviously a lot of the things i wrote were tongue in cheek.I stand by the stance that it was wrong for people to come out so strongly against him when up until today there was 0 credible evidence known to the public that linked him directly to the dogfighting.I have no problem changing my stance once CREDIBLE news comes out, but i wasn't about to tear down a person before hearing any real evidence.Yes it looks like my initial assumption was wrong, but that doesn't mean my initial stance of giving him the benefit of the doubt was.
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Indictment details extensive dogfighting operation

By SAEED AHMED

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 07/17/07

A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia where breeders fought pit bulls for purses as high as $26,000 and losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death.

The National Football League, where Vick is one of the highest-paid players, called the activities alleged in the indictment "cruel, degrading and illegal."

In addition to Vick, 27, the 18-page federal indictment, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, also names three other defendants: Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach; Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Va.

The Virginia federal court is expected to set an initial hearing date Wednesday, according to spokesman Jim Rybicki. That hearing will not likely occur this week, but most likely within the next two weeks.

Vick will not be arrested but will be issued a summons to appear at that initial hearing, Rybicki said.

The grand jury charged that the four used a parcel of land in Smithfield, Va., to serve as the main staging area to house and train pit bulls and to host fights.

The indictment said the four established a kennel, purchased pit bulls, trained and bred them, and played host to several dogfights attended by competitors from at least seven states.

The men also traveled to several states to fight their dogs.

In at least two instances, in 2003 — no dates were specified but Vick sat out much of that season with a foot injury — Vick traveled from Atlanta to South Carolina to participate in dogfights, according to the indictment.

The dogs that fared poorly, as well as those that didn't perform well in test fights, met a cruel fate, the grand jury concluded.

"In or about April 2007," the indictment said, "Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well ... by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

The men are all charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

If convicted on the travel portion of the charge, each man faces up to five years in federal prison. If convicted on the animal fighting portion, each is looking at a year behind bars.

The NFL said that it will review the matter under the league's personal conduct policy.

"We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him," it said in a statement.

Vick nor his lawyer, Larry Woodward, could be reached for comment. In the past, Vick has denied any involvement in dog fighting.

In his one statement on the issue, speaking from New York before the NFL Draft, Vick told the AJC that his relatives were responsible for his trouble.

The grand jury apparently thought differently.

Starting the venture

According to prosecutors, in June 2001 Vick paid $34,000 to purchase a property in Smithfield, Va. He and the three men formed a dogfighting enterprise that they named "Bad Newz Kennels."

Urban Dictionary lists Bad Newz as the street name for Newport News, Va., Vick's hometown.

The men set about purchasing dogs and puppies from several sellers, paying in one case about $1,000 for four pit bull puppies.

The men, aided by others, then made alterations to the property, such as erecting a fence to shield the back of the compound from public view.

Also included in the alterations, according to the indictment: "kennels and buried car axles with chains for the pit bulls. The buried car axles allow the dog chains to pivot, allowing the pit bulls to avoid getting tangled in the chains."

The men also ordered shirts and headbands advertising their crew.

The following year, in 2002, Peace and Vick "rolled" or tested some of the fighting dogs in short fighting matches, the indictment said. That February, Peace killed a poor-performing pit bull by shooting it with a .22 caliber pistol. And as the months went on, all four defendants are accused of shooting dogs that didn't live up to fighting standards.

Soon afterward, the defendants either hosted dogfights at the property or took their dogs to events. Page after page of the indictment details several fights involving dogs with names such as "Seal," "Maniac," and "Zebro."

Participants traveled to the property from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas, Alabama and elsewhere.

The purse for each fight would range into thousands of dollars, and each bout would last until one of the dogs died or limped away. A purse for one such fight was established at $13,000 per side, meaning that the winner stood to win $26,000.

The fights followed strict rules, other court documents show.

The competing dogs had to be of the same gender and could not vary in weight more than half a pound. They were bathed immediately before fights to make sure their coats were not "tainted" with a drug or poison that might hinder an opponent. Sometimes they were starved to make them more vicious in the pit.

The losing dog would be put to death by drowning, hanging, gunshot, electrocution or a different method, the indictment alleges.

"In or about March of 2003," the indictment said, "Peace, after consulting with Vick about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal."

As late as April 2007, the four men continued fighting the dogs — "approximately 54 American Pit Bull Terriers, some of which had scars and injuries appearing to be related to dog fighting; a 'rape stand,' a device in which a female dog who is too aggressive to submit to males for breeding is strapped down with her head held in place by a restraint," and more, the indictment said.

Raid at property led to indictment

Tuesday's indictment of Vick stems in part from an April drug arrest involving Vick's cousin, Davon Boddie, who listed his address as 1915 Moonlight Rd., in Surry County, Va., roughly 20 miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News, Va.

When police went to the house with a search warrant, they found roughly 66 dogs, mainly pit bulls, and evidence to suggest dogfighting.

Federal authorities started their own investigation of the property in early June, digging up the grounds of the estate twice, and finding dog carcasses and other evidence

It was reported that Vick sold the house just after the investigation began in April. However, no paperwork on the sale has been filed with the county.

Local and state authorities in Virginia have been staging their own investigation since late April and could send their case to a grand jury next Tuesday. Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter, the local prosecutor, was unavailable for comment. Surry County Sheriff Harold Brown did not return a phone message.

Vick has bred and sold pit bulls and other breeds through two companies: Mike Vick K-9 Kennels and MV7 Inc., named for his initials and his football jersey number. The companies' Web site — recently taken offline — described their animals as "family pets."

"We do not promote, support or raise dogs for fighting, " the Web site said, "and will not knowingly sell, give or trade any dog that may be used for fighting."

Vick and the Falcons are scheduled to begin practice for the upcoming season July 26.

— Staff writers Jeremy Redmon and Juanita Cousins contributed to this story

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

I had a feeling that this thing wasn't over. Now we can start talking suspension. I think he could easily get 8 games just for being indicted, especially given the thorough and careful nature of the investigation.

Seriously doubt it. Indicted is not convicted. I know, Pacman wasn't convicted either, but his involvement was pretty clear cut and came with a laundry list of other issues. Vick has never had any prior problems, (other than giving the fans the finger). The NFL will take the wait-and-see approach on this I think. But if he's convicted, they'll bring the hammer down.
Ron Mexico

Water Bottle.

Agreed, not a la Pacman, but additional problems nonetheless. I have a hard time seeing Vick not being suspended sooner than later. There is just too much bad publicity on the league for Goodell not to react. He may not, but I'll be very surprised if he waits for a conviction.

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Falcons 'troubled' by news of indictment

Published on: 07/17/07

Flowery Branch — The Atlanta Falcons issued a statement Tuesday night regarding the indictment of quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia.

"This situation has been troubling to many people, including our fans, during the last few months," read the statement issued by Matt Conti football communications coordinator. "With today's news, our club and team will continue to be tested as Michael works through the legal process toward a conclusion.

"We are disappointed that one of our players – and therefore the Falcons – is being presented to the public in a negative way, and we apologize to our fans and the community for that," the statement continued.

"Obviously, we are disturbed by today's news from Virginia. However, we are prepared to deal with it, and we will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for and training camp opens next week. Our plan is to continue to do everything we can to support our players and coaches."

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Am sure there is some fine print somewhere but NFL Player Conduct Policy for Reference:

http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

Basically, at this point Vick is subject to counseling/evaluation by the league and players can only be suspended for the following:

- Failure to cooperate with said evaluation

- Convicted or admitting to criminal activity

- Failure to report an arrest or criminal charge (one of the things that got Pacman suspended)

- Violent activity in the workplace

None of these apply to Vick (yet). Therefore the league will not suspend him until one of them happens.

Interesting. What a mess for the league if they can't act now.
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Doesn't matter if Vick is innocent or not, Goodell is going to do whatever he wants to Vick and the owners and NFLPA will let him.

Please let me know what part of the NFL Player Conduct allows this?Right or wrong, Sets a very bad precedence for the commish to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Where do you draw the line in other situations?
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After reading the actual indictment, I now think Vick won't play this year. Whether Blank benches him or the Commish steps in I see the result as likely the same. Blank will bide time until he can cut Vick and recoup some money here. I definitely think this ends badly for Vick (even with high-priced defense attorneys)

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After reading the actual indictment, I now think Vick won't play this year. Whether Blank benches him or the Commish steps in I see the result as likely the same. Blank will bide time until he can cut Vick and recoup some money here. I definitely think this ends badly for Vick (even with high-priced defense attorneys)

At the time, I said Blank traded the wrong QB (albeit for, mostly, football reasons). I would be devastated if I were Blank. I don't know how the league can't act quickly. They can't let him take the field as he'll be pummelled with debris by fans wherever he goes. His own safety may be at risk. Can you imagine the signs fans will bring to games?!!?Amazing. This sets the Falcons back several years. AJ Smith is smiling wryly somewhere, methinks.
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After reading the actual indictment, I now think Vick won't play this year. Whether Blank benches him or the Commish steps in I see the result as likely the same. Blank will bide time until he can cut Vick and recoup some money here. I definitely think this ends badly for Vick (even with high-priced defense attorneys)

I think overall people think Vick will go down, it's a question of when and what happens to his signing bonus and the salary cap implications.As I mentioned above, it looks like Vick has around $22 million in a prorated signing bonus cap hit to account for. If the Falcons release him, under normal circumstances they would have to eat the cap hit.I don't know the protocals or NFLPA rules for players potentially in jail, but if Vick is suspended for the year I'm not sure that lets the Falcons off the hook for his contract unless the league wants to cover new ground and either make new rules or special exceptions,
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Doesn't matter if Vick is innocent or not, Goodell is going to do whatever he wants to Vick and the owners and NFLPA will let him.

Please let me know what part of the NFL Player Conduct allows this?Right or wrong, Sets a very bad precedence for the commish to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Where do you draw the line in other situations?
Well this has been the problem from the getgo -- Goodell has never - to my mind - laid down an a=b type list - the way he deals with each player seems to be very individualized which on the one hand they should be - each player's situation will be different. But on the other hand, it seems as if there are no clear lines right now. How he deals with Vick reflects (and will be judged by) how he dealt with PacMan, Henry and Johnson.He's already set precedent - but not clearly. IMO
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Isnt this Vicks 1st offense? I just dont see a suspension coming unless he gets caught for another violation.

this ain't no dui
Agreed. This is a grotesque and emotion invoking crime that he has been indicted for. Many will view this as worse than harming a person or people, since the animals have no ability to defend themselves. A DUI etc. is (usually, thank God) a victimless crime.
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Isnt this Vicks 1st offense? I just dont see a suspension coming unless he gets caught for another violation.

this ain't no dui
Agreed. This is a grotesque and emotion invoking crime that he has been indicted for. Many will view this as worse than harming a person or people, since the animals have no ability to defend themselves. A DUI etc. is (usually, thank God) a victimless crime.
Yeah you really can't compare the situations - this is why clear lines need to be set - just because someone has rarely been in trouble, doesn't mean they get a pass first time out. It depends on what they did.Or should. This would seem much worse to me than if Vick was caught shoplifting.
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My gf is at home and just sent me a text telling me the same thing.

next time someone asks me to describe my ultimate woman, i'll show them this post

:thumbup:

lol, she was very happy to read this over my shoulder and remind me how awesome she is.

If I were the Falcons and I wanted to get rid of Vick (which they very well could), I would say that the team has been flooded by season ticket holders and local advertisers saying they will not stand to have a dog murderer as a starting QB and demand that the team take action.

I would think that the Falcons could make a case that Vick be suspended BY THE TEAM without pay until such time that Vick has shown himself to have been not involved in any wrongdoing.

I suspect they have the option of trying to do something, whether they will is another thing. They ALWAYS have the option of cutting him.

A lot will depend if the team wants to keep him and ride it out or if they want to cut ties with him.

As a Falcon's season ticket holder, and after reading the details of that 18 page indictment, I hope that scumbag goes to prison and spends everyday reminded of everything he's about to lose.
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Doesn't matter if Vick is innocent or not, Goodell is going to do whatever he wants to Vick and the owners and NFLPA will let him.

Please let me know what part of the NFL Player Conduct allows this?Right or wrong, Sets a very bad precedence for the commish to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Where do you draw the line in other situations?
Well this has been the problem from the getgo -- Goodell has never - to my mind - laid down an a=b type list - the way he deals with each player seems to be very individualized which on the one hand they should be - each player's situation will be different. But on the other hand, it seems as if there are no clear lines right now. How he deals with Vick reflects (and will be judged by) how he dealt with PacMan, Henry and Johnson.He's already set precedent - but not clearly. IMO
Are you referring Goodell's decision to suspended the players or the suspension given (length)?Pacman, Henry and Tank all violated the Player Conduct Policy. The policy also allows the commissioner to have a "broad stroke" so all suspensions handed down are on a case-by-case basis. It means we may not know what is coming but the commish can drop the hammer to clean up the league, this is a good thing IMO.
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Curious, his cousin, the tenant most discussed, Mr. Davon Boddie, is not mentioned in the indictment... :thumbup:

That's what I was thinking also. Boddie was the target of the first federal search of the property I believe. I suppose that means he's one of the anonymous informants now?
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Isnt this Vicks 1st offense? I just dont see a suspension coming unless he gets caught for another violation.

You are thinking of the league substance abuse policy (no suspension for 1st infraction). Vick's crimes and possible conviction fall under the conduct policy.
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I wonder if owner Blank might not just tell Mike to have a seat for the season. I've read rumblings that he is really PO'd with Vick. They can see what they can get out of Shockley/Harrington/Redman.

If the commish doesn't suspend him, Blank should probably sit him. Wouldn't want to whole investigation to disrupt the team and waste the season.
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Indictment details extensive dogfighting operationBy SAEED AHMEDThe Atlanta Journal-ConstitutionPublished on: 07/17/07 A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia where breeders fought pit bulls for purses as high as $26,000 and losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death.The National Football League, where Vick is one of the highest-paid players, called the activities alleged in the indictment "cruel, degrading and illegal."In addition to Vick, 27, the 18-page federal indictment, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, also names three other defendants: Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach; Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Va.The Virginia federal court is expected to set an initial hearing date Wednesday, according to spokesman Jim Rybicki. That hearing will not likely occur this week, but most likely within the next two weeks.Vick will not be arrested but will be issued a summons to appear at that initial hearing, Rybicki said.The grand jury charged that the four used a parcel of land in Smithfield, Va., to serve as the main staging area to house and train pit bulls and to host fights.The indictment said the four established a kennel, purchased pit bulls, trained and bred them, and played host to several dogfights attended by competitors from at least seven states.The men also traveled to several states to fight their dogs.In at least two instances, in 2003 — no dates were specified but Vick sat out much of that season with a foot injury — Vick traveled from Atlanta to South Carolina to participate in dogfights, according to the indictment.The dogs that fared poorly, as well as those that didn't perform well in test fights, met a cruel fate, the grand jury concluded."In or about April 2007," the indictment said, "Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well ... by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."The men are all charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.If convicted on the travel portion of the charge, each man faces up to five years in federal prison. If convicted on the animal fighting portion, each is looking at a year behind bars.The NFL said that it will review the matter under the league's personal conduct policy."We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him," it said in a statement.Vick nor his lawyer, Larry Woodward, could be reached for comment. In the past, Vick has denied any involvement in dog fighting.In his one statement on the issue, speaking from New York before the NFL Draft, Vick told the AJC that his relatives were responsible for his trouble.The grand jury apparently thought differently.Starting the ventureAccording to prosecutors, in June 2001 Vick paid $34,000 to purchase a property in Smithfield, Va. He and the three men formed a dogfighting enterprise that they named "Bad Newz Kennels."Urban Dictionary lists Bad Newz as the street name for Newport News, Va., Vick's hometown.The men set about purchasing dogs and puppies from several sellers, paying in one case about $1,000 for four pit bull puppies.The men, aided by others, then made alterations to the property, such as erecting a fence to shield the back of the compound from public view.Also included in the alterations, according to the indictment: "kennels and buried car axles with chains for the pit bulls. The buried car axles allow the dog chains to pivot, allowing the pit bulls to avoid getting tangled in the chains."The men also ordered shirts and headbands advertising their crew.The following year, in 2002, Peace and Vick "rolled" or tested some of the fighting dogs in short fighting matches, the indictment said. That February, Peace killed a poor-performing pit bull by shooting it with a .22 caliber pistol. And as the months went on, all four defendants are accused of shooting dogs that didn't live up to fighting standards.Soon afterward, the defendants either hosted dogfights at the property or took their dogs to events. Page after page of the indictment details several fights involving dogs with names such as "Seal," "Maniac," and "Zebro."Participants traveled to the property from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas, Alabama and elsewhere.The purse for each fight would range into thousands of dollars, and each bout would last until one of the dogs died or limped away. A purse for one such fight was established at $13,000 per side, meaning that the winner stood to win $26,000.The fights followed strict rules, other court documents show.The competing dogs had to be of the same gender and could not vary in weight more than half a pound. They were bathed immediately before fights to make sure their coats were not "tainted" with a drug or poison that might hinder an opponent. Sometimes they were starved to make them more vicious in the pit.The losing dog would be put to death by drowning, hanging, gunshot, electrocution or a different method, the indictment alleges."In or about March of 2003," the indictment said, "Peace, after consulting with Vick about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal."As late as April 2007, the four men continued fighting the dogs — "approximately 54 American Pit Bull Terriers, some of which had scars and injuries appearing to be related to dog fighting; a 'rape stand,' a device in which a female dog who is too aggressive to submit to males for breeding is strapped down with her head held in place by a restraint," and more, the indictment said.Raid at property led to indictmentTuesday's indictment of Vick stems in part from an April drug arrest involving Vick's cousin, Davon Boddie, who listed his address as 1915 Moonlight Rd., in Surry County, Va., roughly 20 miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News, Va.When police went to the house with a search warrant, they found roughly 66 dogs, mainly pit bulls, and evidence to suggest dogfighting.Federal authorities started their own investigation of the property in early June, digging up the grounds of the estate twice, and finding dog carcasses and other evidenceIt was reported that Vick sold the house just after the investigation began in April. However, no paperwork on the sale has been filed with the county.Local and state authorities in Virginia have been staging their own investigation since late April and could send their case to a grand jury next Tuesday. Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter, the local prosecutor, was unavailable for comment. Surry County Sheriff Harold Brown did not return a phone message.Vick has bred and sold pit bulls and other breeds through two companies: Mike Vick K-9 Kennels and MV7 Inc., named for his initials and his football jersey number. The companies' Web site — recently taken offline — described their animals as "family pets.""We do not promote, support or raise dogs for fighting, " the Web site said, "and will not knowingly sell, give or trade any dog that may be used for fighting."Vick and the Falcons are scheduled to begin practice for the upcoming season July 26.— Staff writers Jeremy Redmon and Juanita Cousins contributed to this story

What a ####### P.O.S.
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As mentioned above, the indictment on it's own means almost nothing in the larger picture. Because Vick's fate has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Without the indictment, we're not having this discussion...Vick would be playing, as if no investigation happened. So, I completely disagree. And, Vick's fate has everything to do with right or wrong. He done wrong. His fate will follow.
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ya'll need to read this again, as it will happen almost EXACTLY like this guy said - and I'll go so far as to say Goodell will hit Vick farther into left field than he hit PacMan

Doesn't matter if Vick is innocent or not, Goodell is going to do whatever he wants to Vick and the owners and NFLPA will let him. Goodell just got the bump up to commissioner. The owners voted and approved of him for the job. To interfere with Goodell now, esp in what appears to be his major "statement" as top dog, would be to usurp their own credibility and authority. Goodell was also a loyal soldier under Tags, and any benefit of the doubt given to Tags is now passed on to Goodell for the short term. The NFLPA isn't going to fight Goodell on this either. They will of course make a few splashes and do a few theatrics for the sake of their own credibility and to say they did something, but if Goodell wants Vick gone, he's gone. People talk about due process, as if due process matters here. These NFL franchises pump millions into their local economies. They are wired in politically and financially all across the board. Major sponsors. Major universities. Political figures. Celebrities. Hollywood. Other nations overseas. No one is going to turn the entire apple cart on it's side just for Ron Mexico. At the end of the day, Michael Vick is just another employee. He's cannon fodder. If he wanted respect and freedom, he shouldn't have taken a job working for someone else. Take away the fame and big dollars and perks, and he's just another stiff working for someone else in the world. If Goodell decides Vick is never going to play in the NFL - it's going to happen. If Blank wants out of that monstrous contract bad enough, and if enough of his fellow owners like and respect him - it's going to happen. Goodell is going to talk to Blank and see where he stands. Soon some of the NFL's more powerful owners will whisper in Goodells ear and he'll let them. Then the Falcons and the rest of the NFL will step back and give Goodell the freedom to swing the bat they chose to give him. Goodell will strike first, the legal system will strike second and then the Falcons will make their play on that monster contract if they want to do it. Goodell isn't stupid, when he strikes, he'll make sure the winds of the legal system is blowing his way first. He didn't get to be top dog for being a dumb ###.

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After reading the actual indictment, I now think Vick won't play this year. Whether Blank benches him or the Commish steps in I see the result as likely the same. Blank will bide time until he can cut Vick and recoup some money here. I definitely think this ends badly for Vick (even with high-priced defense attorneys)

:toilet:
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Well, accoring to John Clayton, his take on this is:

The Falcons put all of their hopes for 2007 in the hands of Michael Vick. Despite Tuesday's indictment of Vick in a Virginia dogfighting probe, the Falcons have no choice but to stand by him. The reason: Atlanta traded Vick's possible replacement, Matt Schaub, to Houston. At the time, it seemed to be the wise thing, and an indictment doesn't necessarily make that situation any different.

Owner Arthur Blank hired Bobby Petrino to make Vick a better quarterback. The owner believes Petrino's imaginative college style could be creative enough to make Vick a more accomplished thrower. Vick's dedication in spending extra time working at the team facility this offseason gave Blank hope that his plan was correct.

The problem facing Vick and the Falcons now is the case, which could consume most of the season, and could bring down the team. Blank must presume Vick is innocent and let the legal process take its course. Commissioner Roger Goodell must do the same. Vick must be treated as a first-time offender in the league's new conduct policy, so he must be found guilty or admit guilt before the commissioner can suspend him.

While standing by Vick appears to be the short-term solution, there should be no doubt 2007 is the beginning of the end of the Vick era in Atlanta. Blank is a businessman who espouses high principles. Vick is the face of the franchise and a sports icon in the Southeast. Whether he's guilty or innocent, Vick would have to prove the federal government made a major mistake in indicting him to salvage his reputation throughout the area.

Cases such as these are hard to prove. Nevertheless, whatever evidence is presented against Vick is going to cause permanent damage. Dogfighting is an illegal and disgusting sport. A sports star can't be linked to such activity. Watch how fast sponsors and advertisers bail on Vick now.

From the football side, though, Petrino and Blank must let Vick report to training camp and be the starter for this season. Joey Harrington is the backup. While Harrington did some good things in resurrecting his career in Miami, he is not going to make the Falcons a playoff team, and Blank and Petrino aren't going to accept anything less than a playoff trip.

With the indictment hanging over him, though, Vick can't go into seclusion. He'll be asked questions about the case at every news conference. For now, the 2007 season belongs to Vick. But one gets the feeling it's going to be an ugly ending to an era in Atlanta sports that started with so much promise.

We all know how accurate ESPN has been in this case, but I wonder if the first time offfender status is an absolute or if there is wiggle room on this one.

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The problem facing Vick and the Falcons now is the case, which could consume most of the season, and could bring down the team. Blank must presume Vick is innocent and let the legal process take its course. Commissioner Roger Goodell must do the same. Vick must be treated as a first-time offender in the league's new conduct policy, so he must be found guilty or admit guilt before the commissioner can suspend him.

James Curtis was on Sirius this afternoon and said pretty much the same thing about Vick's situation.
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After reading the actual indictment, I now think Vick won't play this year. Whether Blank benches him or the Commish steps in I see the result as likely the same. Blank will bide time until he can cut Vick and recoup some money here. I definitely think this ends badly for Vick (even with high-priced defense attorneys)

I think overall people think Vick will go down, it's a question of when and what happens to his signing bonus and the salary cap implications.

As I mentioned above, it looks like Vick has around $22 million in a prorated signing bonus cap hit to account for. If the Falcons release him, under normal circumstances they would have to eat the cap hit.

I don't know the protocals or NFLPA rules for players potentially in jail, but if Vick is suspended for the year I'm not sure that lets the Falcons off the hook for his contract unless the league wants to cover new ground and either make new rules or special exceptions,

:popcorn: Uh, check page 3 or 4 of this thread. There's a clause in his contract that VOIDS it if he does something that's not in the best interests of his team. If convicted, they won't owe him a dime.
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I've been calling Vick a scumbag for awhile now. A lot of people wouldn't listen. Maybe now they will.

Probably not. People like LHUCKS will always like the biggest jerks in the world. Got an excuse and an apology for every one of them.
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Well, accoring to John Clayton, his take on this is:

The Falcons put all of their hopes for 2007 in the hands of Michael Vick. Despite Tuesday's indictment of Vick in a Virginia dogfighting probe, the Falcons have no choice but to stand by him. The reason: Atlanta traded Vick's possible replacement, Matt Schaub, to Houston. At the time, it seemed to be the wise thing, and an indictment doesn't necessarily make that situation any different.

Owner Arthur Blank hired Bobby Petrino to make Vick a better quarterback. The owner believes Petrino's imaginative college style could be creative enough to make Vick a more accomplished thrower. Vick's dedication in spending extra time working at the team facility this offseason gave Blank hope that his plan was correct.

The problem facing Vick and the Falcons now is the case, which could consume most of the season, and could bring down the team. Blank must presume Vick is innocent and let the legal process take its course. Commissioner Roger Goodell must do the same. Vick must be treated as a first-time offender in the league's new conduct policy, so he must be found guilty or admit guilt before the commissioner can suspend him.

While standing by Vick appears to be the short-term solution, there should be no doubt 2007 is the beginning of the end of the Vick era in Atlanta. Blank is a businessman who espouses high principles. Vick is the face of the franchise and a sports icon in the Southeast. Whether he's guilty or innocent, Vick would have to prove the federal government made a major mistake in indicting him to salvage his reputation throughout the area.

Cases such as these are hard to prove. Nevertheless, whatever evidence is presented against Vick is going to cause permanent damage. Dogfighting is an illegal and disgusting sport. A sports star can't be linked to such activity. Watch how fast sponsors and advertisers bail on Vick now.

From the football side, though, Petrino and Blank must let Vick report to training camp and be the starter for this season. Joey Harrington is the backup. While Harrington did some good things in resurrecting his career in Miami, he is not going to make the Falcons a playoff team, and Blank and Petrino aren't going to accept anything less than a playoff trip.

With the indictment hanging over him, though, Vick can't go into seclusion. He'll be asked questions about the case at every news conference. For now, the 2007 season belongs to Vick. But one gets the feeling it's going to be an ugly ending to an era in Atlanta sports that started with so much promise.

We all know how accurate ESPN has been in this case, but I wonder if the first time offfender status is an absolute or if there is wiggle room on this one.

LINK

Make no mistake, this is in no way, shape, or form a sport and John Clayton should be ashamed of himself for calling it that. It is a heinous and disgusting spectacle and those involved should be locked away for life.
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Hmmm, doesn't look all that good for Mike.I thought i remember reading that when the feds indict that the conviction rate is high. Anyone know anymore about that?I was one of the most vocal people stating that we shouldn't jump the gun until we've seen some decent evidence, and i still think that approach was right, but after reading that indictment i've jumped ship to the other side.He might get off due to having great lawyers, but it's pretty clear he had involvement.

Exsqueeze me? You've been a proponent of "not jumping the gun?!" Allow me to present your response to the feds investigation...

UPDATE, MR VICK IS INNOCENT ON ALL CHARGES, VICK HATERS LOSE ONCE AGAIN. Better luck next time, maybe he'll get caught jaywalking next week and a 14 page thread where people can vent their hate for him can start once again.To the above poster who said that no one is on their radar at this point....court documents were filed, i may be crazy but i assume that there were names on those documents, and none of those names were MVP Vick.LOCK THIS THREAD MODS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE ANYMORE. All this has been is a witch hunt with absolutely no basis in reality.God bless you Mike Vick, please don't think everyone is out to get you.

You've been an undying proponent of Vick's innocence, no matter what news story broke. Calling it a witch hunt and direct assualt on Vick's character. And you challenged all the "haters" to man up and apologize even though no indictments had been handed out. Maybe you didn't jump the gun to convict him, but you sure jumped the gun condemning all those that thought , based on increasing stories of his involvement, that Vick was dirty. Jumping the gun works both ways and you called out a lot of people who have turned out to be right in their belief that the feds would come down on Vick.. Revisionist history my friend doesn't cut it in the Shark Pool. Man up, admit you went way overboard on the ProVick Bandwagon despite increasing odds against him.
Obviously a lot of the things i wrote were tongue in cheek.I stand by the stance that it was wrong for people to come out so strongly against him when up until today there was 0 credible evidence known to the public that linked him directly to the dogfighting.I have no problem changing my stance once CREDIBLE news comes out, but i wasn't about to tear down a person before hearing any real evidence.Yes it looks like my initial assumption was wrong, but that doesn't mean my initial stance of giving him the benefit of the doubt was.
I advocated waiting and seeing what each step meant but at every turn you were 110% convinced not only of his innocence but that those who weren't were on a witch hunt against a man of great character. You were trumpeting his innocence from the top of a mountain and demanding apologies when the results of the investigation came out, just because his name wasn't mentioned. So if that's benefit of the doubt then I guess we have different definitions of the phrase. Personally I like to wait until the info is actually out instead of grasping at straws and calling out others. Bottom line, you were flat on your face wrong about something you were vehement about and if you want to play it of as being "tongue in cheek", well I put the over/under on who buys that at about 1.
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The more I think about this the messier it gets. I think the league will struggle in wanting to suspend him sooner rather than later but I still think that they will have to wait until the case is resolved . . . which will likely be after the season. If my limited knowledge of legal procedures is accurate, I believe a grand jury is convened to determine if there is enough evidince to proceed to a trial. So even if the hearing is in the next few weeks, they still need to get through the whole grand jury hearing and THEN schedule and conduct a trial.

Meanwhile, the team won't want him around and will face INTENSE pressure to cut ties with Vick. The team will have to put on a happy face when they won't want him around, but having invested so much money they won't want to release him and eat a $22 million cap hit and his $37 million signing bonus. The team will suffer with all the acrimony involved across the board and a million and one groups will want to boycott anything involving Vick. The league will look to find a salary cap loophole to allow the team to release him even though I doubt the NFLPA collective bargaining rules will allow for it. And as outlined earlier the rules for individual teams may be different than the league's. The team may be forced to suspend Vick with pay and ride it out. And that will spark a firestorm with the NFLPA who probably would support the league but may not be able to bail out on on of its own

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Hmmm, doesn't look all that good for Mike.I thought i remember reading that when the feds indict that the conviction rate is high. Anyone know anymore about that?I was one of the most vocal people stating that we shouldn't jump the gun until we've seen some decent evidence, and i still think that approach was right, but after reading that indictment i've jumped ship to the other side.He might get off due to having great lawyers, but it's pretty clear he had involvement.

Exsqueeze me? You've been a proponent of "not jumping the gun?!" Allow me to present your response to the feds investigation...

UPDATE, MR VICK IS INNOCENT ON ALL CHARGES, VICK HATERS LOSE ONCE AGAIN. Better luck next time, maybe he'll get caught jaywalking next week and a 14 page thread where people can vent their hate for him can start once again.To the above poster who said that no one is on their radar at this point....court documents were filed, i may be crazy but i assume that there were names on those documents, and none of those names were MVP Vick.LOCK THIS THREAD MODS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE ANYMORE. All this has been is a witch hunt with absolutely no basis in reality.God bless you Mike Vick, please don't think everyone is out to get you.

You've been an undying proponent of Vick's innocence, no matter what news story broke. Calling it a witch hunt and direct assualt on Vick's character. And you challenged all the "haters" to man up and apologize even though no indictments had been handed out. Maybe you didn't jump the gun to convict him, but you sure jumped the gun condemning all those that thought , based on increasing stories of his involvement, that Vick was dirty. Jumping the gun works both ways and you called out a lot of people who have turned out to be right in their belief that the feds would come down on Vick.. Revisionist history my friend doesn't cut it in the Shark Pool. Man up, admit you went way overboard on the ProVick Bandwagon despite increasing odds against him.
Obviously a lot of the things i wrote were tongue in cheek.I stand by the stance that it was wrong for people to come out so strongly against him when up until today there was 0 credible evidence known to the public that linked him directly to the dogfighting.I have no problem changing my stance once CREDIBLE news comes out, but i wasn't about to tear down a person before hearing any real evidence.Yes it looks like my initial assumption was wrong, but that doesn't mean my initial stance of giving him the benefit of the doubt was.
I advocated waiting and seeing what each step meant but at every turn you were 110% convinced not only of his innocence but that those who weren't were on a witch hunt against a man of great character. You were trumpeting his innocence from the top of a mountain and demanding apologies when the results of the investigation came out, just because his name wasn't mentioned. So if that's benefit of the doubt then I guess we have different definitions of the phrase. Personally I like to wait until the info is actually out instead of grasping at straws and calling out others. Bottom line, you were flat on your face wrong about something you were vehement about and if you want to play it of as being "tongue in cheek", well I put the over/under on who buys that at about 1.
:popcorn::no: @ ILUVTHEBACKPEDAL99
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If Vick were to be released, the Falcons would have to eat a $6 million-plus cap hit for for 2007 and about $15 million for 2008.

:popcorn:
Any "bad conduct" clause in the contract to bail the Falcons out here?
Yes and no. As I've referenced (and others have brought up), all NFL contracts have embedded in them a conducting unbecoming clause, and the team could try to implement it and the player would get a grievance and likely it would go to arbitration.I do not recall anything even close to this situation and I cannot think of a case where this happened. Given the HUGE amount of money involved it may be very complicated and drawn out.
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Well, accoring to John Clayton, his take on this is:

The Falcons put all of their hopes for 2007 in the hands of Michael Vick. Despite Tuesday's indictment of Vick in a Virginia dogfighting probe, the Falcons have no choice but to stand by him. The reason: Atlanta traded Vick's possible replacement, Matt Schaub, to Houston. At the time, it seemed to be the wise thing, and an indictment doesn't necessarily make that situation any different.

Owner Arthur Blank hired Bobby Petrino to make Vick a better quarterback. The owner believes Petrino's imaginative college style could be creative enough to make Vick a more accomplished thrower. Vick's dedication in spending extra time working at the team facility this offseason gave Blank hope that his plan was correct.

The problem facing Vick and the Falcons now is the case, which could consume most of the season, and could bring down the team. Blank must presume Vick is innocent and let the legal process take its course. Commissioner Roger Goodell must do the same. Vick must be treated as a first-time offender in the league's new conduct policy, so he must be found guilty or admit guilt before the commissioner can suspend him.

While standing by Vick appears to be the short-term solution, there should be no doubt 2007 is the beginning of the end of the Vick era in Atlanta. Blank is a businessman who espouses high principles. Vick is the face of the franchise and a sports icon in the Southeast. Whether he's guilty or innocent, Vick would have to prove the federal government made a major mistake in indicting him to salvage his reputation throughout the area.

Cases such as these are hard to prove. Nevertheless, whatever evidence is presented against Vick is going to cause permanent damage. Dogfighting is an illegal and disgusting sport. A sports star can't be linked to such activity. Watch how fast sponsors and advertisers bail on Vick now.

From the football side, though, Petrino and Blank must let Vick report to training camp and be the starter for this season. Joey Harrington is the backup. While Harrington did some good things in resurrecting his career in Miami, he is not going to make the Falcons a playoff team, and Blank and Petrino aren't going to accept anything less than a playoff trip.

With the indictment hanging over him, though, Vick can't go into seclusion. He'll be asked questions about the case at every news conference. For now, the 2007 season belongs to Vick. But one gets the feeling it's going to be an ugly ending to an era in Atlanta sports that started with so much promise.

We all know how accurate ESPN has been in this case, but I wonder if the first time offfender status is an absolute or if there is wiggle room on this one.

LINK

And now I'll ask again...if he is allowed to go into the season as the Falcons starting QB, how will he possibly be able to prepare for NFL football with a federal indictment hanging over his head? Will he and his teammates/coaches be able to focus, for a full season, on winning football games and not let the media circus distract them?

I'm skepitcal to say the least.

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Dont count Vick out just yet. We've seen indictments dropped (Duke) and professional athletes play entire seasons before the legal system takes its course of action. Imagine landing Vick in the teen rounds and having him return from a 4 game suspension and run for 1000 yards in 12 games...

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I am actually thinking about targetting Vick in my upcoming auction draft. 4yr contract @ $1-3 per year. 150M cap

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We all know how accurate ESPN has been in this case, but I wonder if the first time offfender status is an absolute or if there is wiggle room on this one.

What exactly does first time offender status mean? Vick has at least two offenses that I can think of, the water bottle incident and the finger incident.
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Dont count Vick out just yet. We've seen indictments dropped (Duke) and professional athletes play entire seasons before the legal system takes its course of action. Imagine landing Vick in the teen rounds and having him return from a 4 game suspension and run for 1000 yards in 12 games...

Is this what you hope for, given what you know about what he's indicted for?
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How binding is Vick's contract?

Falcons have trade, release options, but salary cap issues are substantial

By TIM TUCKER ~ The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 07/09/07

On that giddy day in December 2004 when the Falcons signed Michael Vick to a 10-year, $130 million contract, Arthur Blank gushed: "He's a Falcon for life."

Vick's contract, though, is not nearly as binding as the Falcons owner's words suggested. If, theoretically, the Falcons wanted to trade or release their embattled quarterback, his contract would not necessarily preclude it.

The biggest hurdle would be the impact against the team's salary cap, but that impact, although still hefty, shrank as of June 1. The hit would be $6 million-plus for 2007 and about $15 million for 2008.

Property owned by Vick is at the center of an ongoing investigation of an alleged widespread dogfighting operation. The Falcons repeatedly have declined to comment on the situation and did so again Monday, three days after federal investigators executed a second search warrant at Vick's Surry County, Va., property.

The Falcons have given no indication of any inclination to unload Vick, who has been involved in a series of off-field controversies. But from a contractual standpoint, what would happen if the team got to that point with him?

NFL contracts, unlike those in Major League Baseball, the NBA and the NHL, are not fully guaranteed. That means football players are assured of receiving only the portions of their contracts that are stipulated to be guaranteed — generally signing bonuses. Vick's contract included $37 million in guaranteed bonuses.

The rest is in base salary, which increases each year, payable only as long as he remains on the team.

The NFL's standard player contract stipulates various grounds under which clubs may terminate the contract. One such stipulation: ". . . f player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract."

If a contract is terminated under that clause, the player has the right to file a grievance and have an arbitrator decide whether the club acted reasonably.

Aside from "personal conduct," other grounds for termination of NFL contracts are "unsatisfactory" skill or performance by the player and a "need" by a team to make "room" under the salary cap for other players. The standard contract also stipulates that if an injured player is released, he'll be paid for the balance of the season in which the injury was suffered.

While NFL teams usually can terminate player contracts at will, they cannot escape the salary-cap ramifications.

While the guaranteed bonuses generally are paid at the beginning — or in the early stages — of long-term contracts, teams are allowed to amortize the bonuses over the length of a contract (up to a maximum of six years) for salary-cap purposes. Rather than taking the full hit against the cap when the bonus(es) are paid, teams spread out the impact by counting a portion against the cap each year. (It's not necessarily the same amount each year, depending on how creatively the bonuses are structured. In Vick's case, the Falcons exercised for cap purposes a clause to convert "roster bonuses" to "signing bonuses" in 2005 and 2006.)

But here's the rub: When a player is traded or released, the cap impact "accelerates," as the NFL's collective bargaining agreement puts it. All bonus money previously paid to the player, but not yet counted against the cap, has to be accounted for within one or two years, depending on the date the player is unloaded.

The key date is June 1.

Trading or releasing a player after June 1 is cap-friendlier than doing so on or before June 1:

• If a player is released or traded on or before June 1, the full unamortized portion of his bonus(es) count against that year's cap. In Vick's case, if he had been released or traded before June 1, roughly $22 million would have counted against the Falcons' 2007 cap — a hit that would have crippled the team's financial competitiveness for the coming season.

• If a player is released after June 1, the portion of the bonus(es) that were originally scheduled to count against that year's cap still do so, but the remaining cap impact is deferred until the following year. If the Falcons were to trade or cut Vick later this summer, $6 million-plus would count against the 2007 cap and the rest ($15 million-plus) against the 2008 cap. Spreading the impact over two years might make the impact somewhat more manageable, although still daunting.

The NFL salary cap is $109 million this year and is expected to rise by at least $5 million next year.

Also, a team saves the salary-cap charge of a player's base salary when it trades or releases him. Vick is due a base salary of $6 million this year and increasing amounts each year through 2013. Of course, a team would incur cap charges for a traded or released player's replacement.

If the NFL were to suspend Vick for one or more games, he would not be paid but his salary would count against the cap. The Falcons would be allowed an exemption to replace him on the roster for the length of his suspension.

When the Falcons jubilantly made Vick the NFL's highest paid player in December 2004, the potential — even hypothetical — impact of cutting ties were on no one's radar. Laughing that day about the mega-dollars in the contract, Blank told the media: "It should be officially understood and known now that I work for Michael Vick."

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/f...9/0710vick.html
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Curious, his cousin, the tenant most discussed, Mr. Davon Boddie, is not mentioned in the indictment... :popcorn:

That's what I was thinking also. Boddie was the target of the first federal search of the property I believe. I suppose that means he's one of the anonymous informants now?
I haven't put this under a microscope, but if I remember right. His cousin Boddie, was busted away from the property for drugs. He said he lived at Vicks, which they then searched and found the Dog fighting stuff. He may be the snitch getting out of his drug charges.
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