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Michael Vick Indicted


Chaka

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Bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay

Michael Vick has been indicted by a federal grand jury in connection with the dogfighting probe of his property in Virginia.

The Falcons quarterback was indicted for conspiracy to traffic in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District in Richmond, Va. Three others -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor -- also were indicted by the grand jury on the same charges.

According to court documents filed by federal authorities earlier this month, dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.

Members of the venture also knowingly transported, delivered and received dogs for animal fighting, the documents state.

Fifty-four pit bulls were recovered from the property during searches in April, along with a "rape stand," used to hold dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified for dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting, the documents said.

The property was used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved in the dog fighting venture," according to the filings.

The documents said the fights usually occurred late at night or in the early morning and would last several hours. The winning dog would win from "hundreds up to thousands of dollars," and participants and spectators also would place bets on the fight.

Before fights, the participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance. Sometimes participants would not feed a dog before the fight to "make it more hungry for the other dog," the documents said.

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents. The property has an above-ground swimming pool, and investigators were seen looking into the pool Friday.

During a June search of the property, investigators uncovered the graves of seven pit bulls that were killed by members of "Bad Newz Kennels" following sessions to test whether dogs would be good fighters, the documents said.

Members of "Bad Newz Kennels" also sponsored and exhibited fights in other parts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey and other states, the filings said.

On June 7, federal law enforcement officials descended on the property with a search warrant. More than a dozen vehicles went to the home early that day and investigators searched inside before turning their attention to the area where officials found dozens of dogs in late April and evidence that suggested the home was involved in a dogfighting operation.

Surry County officials had secured a search warrant in late May based on an informant's information to look for as many as 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. The warrant never was executed because Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter said he had issues with the way it was worded.

The results of that search have remained sealed.

At the time, Poindexter expressed surprise at why the federal government was involved.

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

A day later, "They launched a separate, independent federal investigation," Poindexter said of the government, which has had a representative involved in the local probe all along.

A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground. The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.

Vick initially said he had no idea the property might have been used in a criminal enterprise and blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity. He also put the house up for sale and reportedly sold it quickly, although there is no record that the sale has closed. Vick has since declined to talk about the investigation.

ESPN reporter Kelly Naqi and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Please do not piss in the FFA

Ya think?My bad but I consider this to be a crossover topic and I never go to the SP anymore. I am probably not alone in that one.
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good thing atlanta has been grooming shaub.

:headbang:

they deserve what they get for tieing their wagon to that one hop throwing RB.

Raiders just went from 4 wins to 9.

:construction:

That one gets me :pickle: every time.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me. As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me. As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

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I hope he gets a "rape stand" in jail, if convicted. If he is, what's the penalty? Should be life.

I think the top end is 6 years from what I read elsewhere. I expect if they have the evidence to put Mike away he goes right to singing and gets himself a deal.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

He was cleared in the water bottle thing and Ron Mexico didn't result in any criminal charges IIRC. Pacman would love to have Vicks record.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

He was cleared in the water bottle thing and Ron Mexico didn't result in any criminal charges IIRC. Pacman would love to have Vicks record.
I am not saying he is Adam Jones but Goodell had demonstrated that the standards for guilt in a courtroom are not the same as those applied for discipline in the NFL. Adam Jones wasn't convicted of anything either.

I think you are right and they will wait but I hope not to see a double standard applied in Vick's case, in fact I think it is more important for defining Goodell's regime that he not show preferential treatment to Vick.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

He was cleared in the water bottle thing and Ron Mexico didn't result in any criminal charges IIRC. Pacman would love to have Vicks record.
I am not saying he is Adam Jones but Goodell had demonstrated that the standards for guilt in a courtroom are not the same as those applied for discipline in the NFL. Adam Jones wasn't convicted of anything either.

I think you are right and they will wait but I hope not to see a double standard applied in Vick's case, in fact I think it is more important for defining Goodell's regime that he not show preferential treatment to Vick.

I understand the sentiment and I agree. But I just don't find it likely.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me. As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?
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Everyone has been saying Daunte Culpepper will end up in Jacksonville. Hey, I think with Vick's indictment he would be a good fit in Atlanta. Daunte was released by Miami......we will have to wait and see. I wouldn't want to rely on Joey Harriton - he can't run and he can't throw.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me. As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?
Money talks. No way Goodell wants Arthur on his butt. They will need to at least go to trial I think before anything happens to Vick.
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It will be interesting to see if the feds have turned any witnesses up that will show Vick was actually there. Indictment for conspiracy requires only some agreement to perform an unlawful act and any act in furtherance of the conspiracy. In other words it does not mean that they showed proof he ran the operation or knew the extent of it.

Will be interesting to see if others are indicted too and if the charges are more detailed againsts the rest of the alleged conspirators.

Also a dilemma for the team and the league since they have to decide what to do in the next couple of months and the legal process is only starting up.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me. As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?
I love the new personal conduct policy. I think Goodell runs the risk of losing the league if he applies a double standard to a recidivist superstar. It does bother me when I see teams populated by thugs who would be in jail if they weren't athletes.Do you really mean that you prefer watching criminals play the game or is that a joke of some sort? I absolutely want a league full of people who are not criminals, which does not necessarily mean that they are good guys just smart enough not to break the law (or at least not get caught).
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It will be interesting to see if the feds have turned any witnesses up that will show Vick was actually there. Indictment for conspiracy requires only some agreement to perform an unlawful act and any act in furtherance of the conspiracy. In other words it does not mean that they showed proof he ran the operation or knew the extent of it. Will be interesting to see if others are indicted too and if the charges are more detailed againsts the rest of the alleged conspirators. Also a dilemma for the team and the league since they have to decide what to do in the next couple of months and the legal process is only starting up.

Early on there were reports of witnesses to Vick at some of the fights and to the fact that he laid heavy bets on the action.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

Money talks. No way Goodell wants Arthur on his butt. They will need to at least go to trial I think before anything happens to Vick.
Sad but true. However I wouldn't underestimate Goodell's determination to be the new sheriff in town or Blank & Petrino in this matter. Blank is a savvy guy and I am sure he was not happy to have to send a letter to the entire season ticket holding fan base detailing all the good things that Falcons players do for the community. Vick isn't exactly a great fit for Petrino's offense either. If Vick's rep starts costing the Falcon's luxury box sales, advertisers and season ticket holders, which it has already, I would not be surprised to see to see money talk in the other direction.

It will also be interesting to see if PETA and other organizations ramp up their indignation and start targeting Falcon and NFL sponsors. If corporate sponsors start talking about withdrawing revenue you can bet Vick will be suspended at the very least.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

Money talks. No way Goodell wants Arthur on his butt. They will need to at least go to trial I think before anything happens to Vick.
Sad but true. However I wouldn't underestimate Goodell's determination to be the new sheriff in town or Blank & Petrino in this matter. Blank is a savvy guy and I am sure he was not happy to have to send a letter to the entire season ticket holding fan base detailing all the good things that Falcons players do for the community. Vick isn't exactly a great fit for Petrino's offense either. If Vick's rep starts costing the Falcon's luxury box sales, advertisers and season ticket holders, which it has already, I would not be surprised to see to see money talk in the other direction.

It will also be interesting to see if PETA and other organizations ramp up their indignation and start targeting Falcon and NFL sponsors. If corporate sponsors start talking about withdrawing revenue you can bet Vick will be suspended at the very least.

If the economic pressure is there you are probably right.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

I love the new personal conduct policy. I think Goodell runs the risk of losing the league if he applies a double standard to a recidivist superstar. It does bother me when I see teams populated by thugs who would be in jail if they weren't athletes.

Do you really mean that you prefer watching criminals play the game or is that a joke of some sort? I absolutely want a league full of people who are not criminals, which does not necessarily mean that they are good guys just smart enough not to break the law (or at least not get caught).

I'm dead serious in that I don't care much about the man in the uniform. Watching great football, whether it be played by "Catholics" or "convicts," is all I really care about. Maybe I was joking a little about it being "fun" to watch the thugs. But I was reminded of some old ACC basketball games, when one of the visiting players had been involved in a minor transgression involving the unauthorized use of an automobile -- and all the students in the stands would jangle their car keys at him whenever he went to the free throw line. Great fun, indeed. The NFL could stand a little of that.

But I understand that most people feel like you said you do in the part I bolded. What I don't understand is why you feel that way.

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

I love the new personal conduct policy. I think Goodell runs the risk of losing the league if he applies a double standard to a recidivist superstar. It does bother me when I see teams populated by thugs who would be in jail if they weren't athletes.

Do you really mean that you prefer watching criminals play the game or is that a joke of some sort? I absolutely want a league full of people who are not criminals, which does not necessarily mean that they are good guys just smart enough not to break the law (or at least not get caught).

I'm dead serious in that I don't care much about the man in the uniform. Watching great football, whether it be played by "Catholics" or "convicts," is all I really care about. Maybe I was joking a little about it being "fun" to watch the thugs. But I was reminded of some old ACC basketball games, when one of the visiting players had been involved in a minor transgression involving the unauthorized use of an automobile -- and all the students in the stands would jangle their car keys at him whenever he went to the free throw line. Great fun, indeed. The NFL could stand a little of that.

But I understand that most people feel like you said you do in the part I bolded. What I don't understand is why you feel that way.

For me I guess it is I like to feel like the game I loved playing and now love watching isn't enriching some dog killing loser in this case. Or any other criminals for that matter in other cases.
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good thing atlanta has been grooming shaub.

:mellow:

they deserve what they get for tieing their wagon to that one hop throwing RB.

Raiders just went from 4 wins to 9.

:shrug:

That one gets me :lmao: every time.

Texas Tech?
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NFL Response

"We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him. We will continue to closely monitor developments in this case, and to cooperate with law enforcement authorities. The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts. The matter will be reviewed under the League's Personal Conduct Policy."

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Looks like the Falcons chose to send out a second letter to the fan base too.

Circling the wagons but leaving the door open. :shrug:

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

I love the new personal conduct policy. I think Goodell runs the risk of losing the league if he applies a double standard to a recidivist superstar. It does bother me when I see teams populated by thugs who would be in jail if they weren't athletes.

Do you really mean that you prefer watching criminals play the game or is that a joke of some sort? I absolutely want a league full of people who are not criminals, which does not necessarily mean that they are good guys just smart enough not to break the law (or at least not get caught).

I'm dead serious in that I don't care much about the man in the uniform. Watching great football, whether it be played by "Catholics" or "convicts," is all I really care about. Maybe I was joking a little about it being "fun" to watch the thugs. But I was reminded of some old ACC basketball games, when one of the visiting players had been involved in a minor transgression involving the unauthorized use of an automobile -- and all the students in the stands would jangle their car keys at him whenever he went to the free throw line. Great fun, indeed. The NFL could stand a little of that.

But I understand that most people feel like you said you do in the part I bolded. What I don't understand is why you feel that way.

What I don't understand is why you would need an explanation for that which is intuitively obvious?

The short answer is I agree with NCCommish. (that statement applies to a lot actually).

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
Actually, this forum may be a better place to discuss the larger ramifications of the NFL disciplinary policy. You can't do that amidst the shouting inherent to the Pool.

Is Mr. Goodell's severe stance a good one in the long run? Is there really any possibility of alienating the league's fan base by taking a lighter hand? Are you personally alienated when a player gets into legal trouble? If so, why?

I think it'd be a lot more fun to let the bad boys play and bust their balls. Who wants a league full of good guys?

I love the new personal conduct policy. I think Goodell runs the risk of losing the league if he applies a double standard to a recidivist superstar. It does bother me when I see teams populated by thugs who would be in jail if they weren't athletes.

Do you really mean that you prefer watching criminals play the game or is that a joke of some sort? I absolutely want a league full of people who are not criminals, which does not necessarily mean that they are good guys just smart enough not to break the law (or at least not get caught).

I'm dead serious in that I don't care much about the man in the uniform. Watching great football, whether it be played by "Catholics" or "convicts," is all I really care about. Maybe I was joking a little about it being "fun" to watch the thugs. But I was reminded of some old ACC basketball games, when one of the visiting players had been involved in a minor transgression involving the unauthorized use of an automobile -- and all the students in the stands would jangle their car keys at him whenever he went to the free throw line. Great fun, indeed. The NFL could stand a little of that.

But I understand that most people feel like you said you do in the part I bolded. What I don't understand is why you feel that way.

For me I guess it is I like to feel like the game I loved playing and now love watching isn't enriching some dog killing loser in this case. Or any other criminals for that matter in other cases.
Well put, Commish.
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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

He was cleared in the water bottle thing and Ron Mexico didn't result in any criminal charges IIRC. Pacman would love to have Vicks record.
I dislike Pacman and his gang of thugs.. But has he been found guilty of anything yet?

I know Vick has yet to be convicted either, but both should be treated the same way. If Goodell lets Vick off easy he sets a Bad example just when he started to set a good example, ala Pacman.. :toilet:

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Seems like a legit FFA thread to me.

As to Vick he has skated close to the edge many times, seems like this time he tipped over it a bit. But let's remember any reasonably competent DA can get an indictment on just about anyone from a Grand Jury. This doesn't mean Vick will be found guilty or even go to trial per se.

True but it will be interesting to see how Goodel handles it. Adam Jones was never indicted, so the whole"let the legal system take it's course" line doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Pacman ain't Vick. I am betting that everyone goes hands off until something more comes out.
With an athlete of Vicks marketability you are probably right, but with the water bottle incident earlier this year, missing the congressional meeting and the Ron Mexico incident we are not exactly talking about a choir boy either.

One thing is for sure, I am tuning into some Falcons games this year just to see him get brutalized by the crowds. Do the Falcons play in Cleveland? I hope so.

He was cleared in the water bottle thing and Ron Mexico didn't result in any criminal charges IIRC. Pacman would love to have Vicks record.
I dislike Pacman and his gang of thugs.. But has he been found guilty of anything yet?

I know Vick has yet to be convicted either, but both should be treated the same way. If Goodell lets Vick off easy he sets a Bad example just when he started to set a good example, ala Pacman.. :toilet:

That was one of my contentions too, but there is a distinction in that Adam Jones (for the love of Mike will people stop calling him Pacman, thugs deserve numbers not nicknames) has been arrested multiple times while Vick has only the indictment, which is not an arrest, and a couple of near misses.

Still I would like to see Goodell take a hard line approach across the board if Vick is arrested and not wait until the conclusion of a trial. That would be a gross double standard that would severely damage his credibility.

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