jdoggydogg
Footballguy
I concur. Sally's mother is just awful to her.
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Mad Men on AMC (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Red Apples
- Start date
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
The wife's right: big mistake to kill her off. Great character."Are you going to the toilet?"badmojo1006 said:Damn, and I was just getting used to her."I'd have my secretary taker her, but she is dead"
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I agree. After her boxing joke a few episodes ago, it could have been interesting between Blankenship and the black copywriter Peggy seems destined to hire.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
SEPPY...
"Men never know what's going on." -Vivian Winters
My friend Phil has a theory that "Mad Men" is secretly a '60s memoir written by Peggy Olson. He doesn't mean that in a literal sense - the show obviously spends most of its time on Don, and also on things other characters are up to that Peggy wouldn't know about - but that its view of the period is very much a feminist one. The picture is sharpest when dealing with issues the women went through, with Peggy so far as the only female regular who's been able to turn the times to her advantage.
That theory feels especially spot-on in an episode like "The Beautiful Girls," which shows how Peggy, Joan, Dr. Faye and even Sally have to live in a world ruled by men who, as the stranger who brings Sally to SCDP puts it, don't understand their lives nearly as much as they think they do.
The woman to suffer the episode's worst fate is Ida Blankenship, the former Queen of Perversions, who dies at her desk, first triggering a hilarious farce sequence where Joan has to keep the body away from the Fillmore people, and then more heartfelt emotion as her one-time boss Bert and one-time lover Roger cope with her loss. Roger jokes that she died the way she lived, answering someone else's phones, but as with most of Roger's quips, there's some sad truth to it. In a moment of poetic inspiration, Cooper points out that Ida was born in a barn in the 19th century and died on the 37th floor of a skyscraper: "She was an astronaut." But there were no actual female astronauts in 1965 America, and a life of answering phones and following the orders of men like Bert and Don was the highest job Ida could aspire to.
Before they whacked her, Matthew Weiner and Dahvi Waller at least gave the Blankenship a few wise one-liners, including one playing off of Roger's nickname for her, when she tells Peggy, "It's a business of sadists and masochists, and you know which one you are." Later, she astutely says of Faye, "She's pushy, that one. Guess that's what it takes." That kind of pushiness likely wouldn't have gone over back in Ida's day, and now she'll never get to see where it will one day take women like Faye and Peggy.
But that's in the future for these women, where the present is pretty lousy.
Peggy has a second evening with activist reporter Abe Drexler. When she interrupts his harangue about civil rights to point out the many ways in which she's discriminated against, and he reacts no better than Stan Rizzo would, she bails. And Abe's big plan to make amends doesn't involve paying any attention to what Peggy said, but instead has him writing a condescending screed in which he forgives her for her role as a congregant in the corporate religion of America. (He treats her as a little girl who knows not what she does, and not the very savvy woman she is.) Peggy does care about civil rights, at least enough to raise it in a meeting with Don and Ken and Stan, but she's growing past the point where she'll let herself be with a man who doesn't understand her and treats her badly as a result.
Joan continues to struggle with Greg's absence, particularly with the confirmation that he's going to Vietnam straight ouf of basic training - all of it from a life-altering decision Greg made without consulting her. Miss Blankenship's shocking death - and her recognition of Roger's melancholy over her death - convinces Joan to finally take her ex-lover up on his constant dinner offers, and after they're mugged in the decaying neighborhood where they used to dine 5 or 10 years earlier, Joan's adrenaline gets the better of her and she has sex with Roger in a dark alley. She admits to Roger the morning after that she doesn't regret it, but that she wants to go back to honoring her marriage, even if it's to an oblivious, absent jerk like Greg. Greg told her last week that she could talk to her friends while he was gone, and she cried, and here we're reminded that the closest thing Joan has to a friend in that place is Roger. Even if they went five years without fooling around, and even if he's a selfish, immature pig, he still knows her better than anyone else does.
Dr. Faye has settled into a comfy relationship with Don - so comfortable that he has no problem leaving her alone in his apartment (though, of course, he doesn't have as much to hide as he used to) - that becomes very uncomfortable when Sally turns up at the office moments before Ida dies and Don needs Faye, of all people, to keep an eye on his daughter for the afternoon. And it gets even more uncomfortable the next day when he recruits Faye to quiet Sally's not-unreasonable anger over having to go back to live with Betty. Faye has, like Peggy, chosen career over motherhood, and she's awkward and overly-formal around Sally, constantly (and loudly) re-introducing herself, unsure what to say next. Women in this time period were made to feel like failures for not having kids, and/or not being good with them. (Hell, women today are.) Even though Don insists that it doesn't matter and that he only enlisted Faye's help because of the extreme circumstances, she still ends the day feeling awful. (But not before getting a look at the former Mrs. Draper.)
And then there's Sally. Poor, poor Sally.
Sally's at an even greater disadvantage. She's female, and a child. Everyone gets to order her around, make her keep living with a woman she hates and who so clearly dislikes her. She runs away to see her father in the city and tries to convince him to let her stay (she even makes him rum-flavored french toast!), but she doesn't understand two things.
The first is that Betty Francis would never in a million years suffer the stigma of other people knowing that her ex-husband was raising her daughter. It doesn't matter how much animosity the two have for each other; Betty would fight any attempt tooth and nail and make both Sally and Don miserable in the process, and she'd win, because in 1965, no judge is taking custody away from the remarried mother in the suburban house and giving it to the single dad in the Village apartment. And the second is that Don, as we've seen in the past, and as he admitted to Faye a few episodes back, has never been comfortable taking care of his kids on his own, even though he wants to be. He knows how bad Sally has it with Betty, wants to protect her, but it's not in him to be the hands-on dad Sally needs. When she asks him to let her stay, and even offers to earn her keep by taking care of her little brothers, Don can't say yes. So he goes out to write in his sobriety journal and realizes he has nothing to write. What can you say about a little girl caught between two parents who don't really want to be raising her?
Don at least gives Sally a morning to remember in the city, but then she has an afternoon she - and everyone who witnesses it - would like to forget, as she pitches a fit when Don tries to make her go back with Betty. Faye only makes things worse, and Sally draws the attention of (the female) half of the office, when she screams and runs out of Don's office and does a faceplant in the hall. Megan the receptionist tries to comfort her by insisting "It's all going to be alright," but Sally has been through too much over the last few years to have any response but this sad, knowing one:
"No, it's not."
(Kiernan Shipka in that moment? Fantastic. Considering that the show cast her when she was 7 or 8 and didn't have to do much more than say, "Hi, Daddy!," they really hit the mother lode with her. Wow.)
So Sally has no choice but to go back with her mother, and everyone goes home feeling shaken by what they saw. Peggy's lesbian friend Joyce, who came into the office after, and who (in her personal life, at least) doesn't have to serve the whims of clueless men, seems carefree as she goes down in one elevator. Joan, Faye, and Peggy - who are having lousy stretches with the men in their lives, who watched helplessly as Sally tumbled, and who we know have all made choices in the past to avoid motherhood - ride together in another elevator, all feeling dazed about what they saw, and about the lives they're leading.
A long stretch of episodes this season ended with a door closing. Those doors all seemed to be about how Don's present-day life was closing himself off to the world, and that device seemed to come to an end when Don told Peggy to leave the door open at the end of "The Suitcase." But two weeks later, we have another closed door, this time on these three women. We know there's still a world of possibility out there for at least two of them (Joan's kinda stuck by her choices, and by her reluctance to look forward the way Peggy has), but after the events of this episode, it's easy to see all three of them feeling like a door is shutting between them and what they want.
Some other thoughts:
Another SCDP woman becomes oddly prominent in this episode, as Megan saves the day on numerous occasions: covering for Don when people ask why Sally's there, pitching in to help with Blankenship's body and then filling in on Don's desk, comforting Sally, etc. Are we seeing the birth of the next generation of Joan, or something else? There's a sense that Megan is really worried for Don, and while we saw in the focus group episode that she's empathetic in general, this seemed... more. Not the husband-chasing of Jane, but also not just the uber-competence of Joan.
We've wondered why Cooper is so often seen aimlessly wandering the halls of the new building, and now we know: the space is so small - and he is, frankly, so irrelevant - that he doesn't have an office of his own.
There was, understandably, a lot of debate last week about whether Peggy or Joan had the right idea in dealing with Joey, and many of those on Team Peggy said that by firing Joey directly, Peggy had now gained a measure of power and respect in the office that might put some of the frat boy antics to bed. But we see that her relationship with Stan is entirely unchanged, and he's still mocking her to her face, in front of both Joyce and Ken.
We've seen Joan looking less glam at home, but have we seen her in glasses before? Or is this just another little sign that she's getting older?
Because of budgetary issues, I'm used to episodes not featuring certain members of the supporting cast, but it felt very strange to have Vincent Kartheiser spend two episodes in a row doing so little. I'm not sure he even had any dialogue in this one, though he was of course helpful in Operation Hide the Blankenship.
And speaking of that sequence, two laugh-out-loud moments within it: Peggy is surprised to find Sally in Don's office, orders her not to leave the room, and Sally barks out, "I know!"; and an off-camera Harry whines, "My mother made that!"
Glad to have Joyce back, and to see how comfortable she and Peggy are with each other. Joyce made her move, Peggy declined, and now she's perfectly happy to set Peggy up with straight guys, and Peggy in turn is comfortable enough with Joyce that she's amused when Joyce licks her face to shut Stan up.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
This. Pete is one of the best characters on the show.Bring back Pete! Bring back Pete!
McJose
Footballguy
Heck, bring back Paul too.This. Pete is one of the best characters on the show.
Pooch
More Yang than Yin
Fixed.And I think we need to see Megan in the sack with somebody real soon.Heck, bring back Paul Sal too.This. Pete is one of the best characters on the show.
McJose
Footballguy
Yeah but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Sal.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I wonder if Sal will return at some point. He's not with the new firm, right? Unless I've forgotten an episode, his sexual identity crisis storyline was never really resolved.
scoobygang
Footballguy
One problem I have with Sepinwall's reviews is that I don't know how "spoiled" he is. For safety I'll move the rest of the discussion behind a spoiler tag. Don't read if you don't want to know a pretty big clue that some people have found as to how this Season may end.
OK, so Sepinwall asks what we're to make of the sudden emphasis on Meghan (who is played by an actress who has had steady TV work belying the small role she had seen to date). And he questions Meghan's possible interest in Don. None of these observations would be out of line for someone who viewed the episode closely.
BUT, if you read the Mad Men boards on TV Without Pity, you already know that images taken while the Season Finale (called Disneyworld, I believe) were being filmed are on Jon Hamm's website. And you know that they seem to show Don in California with the kids and Meghan.
So there's a lot of evidence already out there that Meghan becomes Mrs. Draper 2.0 (or I guess 3.0, really).
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();So, if Sepinwall keeps in touch with spoilers, it's very easy to let that knowledge filter into his analysis of what is being aired now. Which might make him seem more perceptive than he really his. Not a huge problem. I think he's one of the handful of web based critics doing good analysis of the show, but it rubbed me a bit the wrong way this week.
OK, so Sepinwall asks what we're to make of the sudden emphasis on Meghan (who is played by an actress who has had steady TV work belying the small role she had seen to date). And he questions Meghan's possible interest in Don. None of these observations would be out of line for someone who viewed the episode closely.
BUT, if you read the Mad Men boards on TV Without Pity, you already know that images taken while the Season Finale (called Disneyworld, I believe) were being filmed are on Jon Hamm's website. And you know that they seem to show Don in California with the kids and Meghan.
So there's a lot of evidence already out there that Meghan becomes Mrs. Draper 2.0 (or I guess 3.0, really).
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();So, if Sepinwall keeps in touch with spoilers, it's very easy to let that knowledge filter into his analysis of what is being aired now. Which might make him seem more perceptive than he really his. Not a huge problem. I think he's one of the handful of web based critics doing good analysis of the show, but it rubbed me a bit the wrong way this week.
scoobygang
Footballguy
Sal can't return as long as the firm is dependent on American Tobacco (unless Lee Garner Jr. dies or something).
McJose
Footballguy
He was fired from Sterling Cooper thanks to Lee Garner Jr...heir to the American Tobacco fortune. Garner hit on Sal while Sal was editing a TV spot for Lucky Strike. Sal turned him down and, out of fear that Sal would 'out' him, Garner ordered Sterling to fire him. Since American Tobacco is SCDP's biggest biller by far he'll probably never work there again.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Nah, bud. The curt "goodbye" was merely her way of saying "Thanks for sending me back to this witch, @55hole!"
McJose
Footballguy
I don't think so.
zoonation
Footballguy
Child suicide is even beyond cable.I don't think it will happen, but agree that it has that feel.
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Betty hanging herself would be a powerful scene.
shut it down
Footballguy
Dude. C'mon.I wouldn't mind see her teach JJ some thespianismyumSally is a fine little thespian.She should give January Jones acting lessons.
Major
Footballguy
She was easily my favorite supporting character. I loved how she'd tell the person calling Don's life story. My Grandmother used to kill me with that schtick when I was growing up. RIP Miss Blankenship.The wife's right: big mistake to kill her off. Great character."Are you going to the toilet?"Damn, and I was just getting used to her.
"I'd have my secretary taker her, but she is dead"
"if I wanted to see to n* fight, I'd throw a dollar out my window!"
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jdoggydogg
Footballguy
I said to Mrs. Dogg that there's no way Don would allow an old, ugly battle-ax like that to be his secretary. Almost as if the writers heard my complaint, Don tells someone that Joan assigned Ms. Blankenship to him because that's exactly what he needed.She was easily my favorite supporting character. I loved how she'd tell the person calling Don's life story. My Grandmother used to kill me with that schtick when I was growing up. RIP Miss Blankenship.The wife's right: big mistake to kill her off. Great character."Are you going to the toilet?"Damn, and I was just getting used to her.
"I'd have my secretary taker her, but she is dead"
"if I wanted to see to n* fight, I'd throw a dollar out my window!"
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I say this every week, but WOW. Amazing episode. Sepinwall is gonna have a field day with this one.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I am only halfway through, but why do I get the feeling
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Heh. Perfect song to end tonight's episode
Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
So you guys think that Joan kept the baby, right? I was 99% sure that was the case until she had that conversation with Roger later and I thought maybe I had it wrong.
Also, can somebody explain the whole **** Whitman/Don Draper thing in the clearest possible way? My wife was asking questions about it yesterday and at first I was really condescending but then realized I didn't have very good answers to her questions. Like, if the government thought **** Whitman died and Don Draper lived, why didn't they consider Don Draper to be a deserter when he suddenly disappeared? Or was it just that the real Don's tour of duty was up but the real **** had more time to put in? Also, if he completely assumed the identity of Don Draper, why were there any lies in his personnel file that wouldn't check out? Wouldn't he just have written down the real Don Draper's age and social security number or whatever?
Also, can somebody explain the whole **** Whitman/Don Draper thing in the clearest possible way? My wife was asking questions about it yesterday and at first I was really condescending but then realized I didn't have very good answers to her questions. Like, if the government thought **** Whitman died and Don Draper lived, why didn't they consider Don Draper to be a deserter when he suddenly disappeared? Or was it just that the real Don's tour of duty was up but the real **** had more time to put in? Also, if he completely assumed the identity of Don Draper, why were there any lies in his personnel file that wouldn't check out? Wouldn't he just have written down the real Don Draper's age and social security number or whatever?
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Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
Surprised by the lack of activity in here so far today. One of the more eventful episodes of the entire series.
Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
Maybe everyone's just waiting for Sepinwall.
scoobygang
Footballguy
It felt like a "moving pieces into place" episode for me.I also found the Lane subplot kind of ludicrous and not really the sort of thing Mad Men does best.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Yeah, it did seem forced and uncomfortable. When his father smacked him in the head and then stood on his hand, creepy
jwb
Footballguy
The bolded is likely the biggest fear he has. I'm guessing he started using his own bday, etc. He likely figured "what's the difference / harm"?
Please See Mine
Footballguy
I dunno, he seems pretty hellbent on not writing about spoilers, and about people in his comments section not posting any. I would tend to think it's just coincidental.Didn't he mention at the beginning of the season that he was no longer getting advanced copies which would make his reviews later and/or more hurried?
Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
It was a "moving pieces into place" episode. That's why I think it's worth talking about. Lots of stuff is now up in the air. Most notably, do we see a reappearance of gay art guy now that Lucky Strikes is gone?I didn't really have a problem with the Lane subplot, but mostly it just seemed like it was written to get him out of town while the firm falls apart. It seems within the realm of possibility that he'll never come back.
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scoobygang
Footballguy
I'm sure this raises the possibility of Sal next season. I don't think there would be much reason to reintroduce him in the three remaining episodes.
scoobygang
Footballguy
The clips for next week show a lot of Ken. My prediction: SCDP goes after the whole Pepsi portfolio. Ken brought Mountain Dew over, but I think there must be more to his lament about going after the scraps of large companies.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
One of the best of the series for me. Don owes Pete BIG time! And no doubt in my mind he sleeps with his secretary next episode, or soon after. Right now he's at his most self-destructive, or just a little past it maybe, so it was nice to see him so scared to lose it all in spite of that, he will find a way to get through all this and end up right back on top of his game, but not before sabotaging the best romantic relationship he's had since the divorce.
As for whether Joan kept the baby, I thought that last conversation with Roger made the answer obvious: "Life goes on."
As for whether Joan kept the baby, I thought that last conversation with Roger made the answer obvious: "Life goes on."
What's 30 days in MadMen episode time? We could see Roger sweating out the rest of the season or Sal could be re-introduced by the end of the next episode.
And he's back with a bang!Bring back Pete! Bring back Pete!
Elbow Truck Driver
Footballguy
Don Draper's wife would have known this info.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Finally caught up a few weeks ago on the entire series, which I think is solid.....I'm sure you guys do it up well in here!
One question I've been tugging at while catching up the past few months is this: The baby...is it Don's or do we not know for sure? Betty was with that one random dude at the bar, then Don/Betty sorta made up and she went to Italy with Don, then she was knocked up. It's quite possible my timeline is messed up here.
One question I've been tugging at while catching up the past few months is this: The baby...is it Don's or do we not know for sure? Betty was with that one random dude at the bar, then Don/Betty sorta made up and she went to Italy with Don, then she was knocked up. It's quite possible my timeline is messed up here.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
I love the irony of his self-righteous pontificating about people with secrets and lies when he's fathered at least one love child that he's kept under wraps.And he's back with a bang!Bring back Pete! Bring back Pete!
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