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My first IDP league


AC05

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This is my first year in a dynasty IDP league. Apparently, our league is more heavily weighted towards defense...I could tell that as I was looking at the scoring formats...

Our scoring rules are as follows:

Defensive Scoring: DL/LB/DB

Pts per Solo Tackle: 2/2/2

Pts per Assisted Tackle: 2/1/1

Pts per Sack: 5/4/4

Pts per Safety: 2/2/2

Pts per Pass Deflected: 1/1/2

Pts per Interception: 5/5/5

Pts per Forced Fumble: 2/2/2

Pts per Fumble Recovery: 2/2/2

Pts per Touchdowns: 6/6/6

Now, when I enter the values into the VBD here is my Top 50: (I just highlighted the first 3 that stuck out)

1 LaDainian Tomlinson (01.01)

2 Steven Jackson (01.02)

3 Peyton Manning (02.03)

4 Larry Johnson (01.03)

5 Jason Taylor

6 Steve Smith (02.04)

7 Frank Gore (01.04)

8 DeMeco Ryans

9 Chad Johnson (02.05)

10 Willie Parker (01.08)

11 Marvin Harrison (02.07)

12 Brian Westbrook (01.07)

13 Aaron Kampman

14 Terrell Owens (03.02)

15 Reggie Wayne (03.04)

16 Joseph Addai (01.06)

17 Shaun Alexander (01.05)

18 Torry Holt (03.01)

19 Rudi Johnson (01.09)

20 Roy Williams (03.08)

21 Reggie Bush (01.10)

22 Laurence Maroney (02.02)

23 Kerry Rhodes

24 Adrian Wilson

25 Keith Bulluck

26 Aaron Schobel

27 Chris Hope

28 T.J. Houshmandzadeh (04.03)

29 Travis Henry (02.01)

30 Javon Walker (04.02)

31 Larry Fitzgerald (03.05)

32 Sean Jones

33 Ronde Barber

34 Carson Palmer (03.09)

35 Ronnie Brown (02.09)

36 Zach Thomas

37 Lee Evans (04.06)

38 Maurice Jones-Drew (02.08)

39 Clinton Portis (02.10)

40 Justin Smith

41 Anquan Boldin (03.10)

42 Tom Brady (04.04)

43 Donald Driver (05.03)

44 Willis McGahee (02.06)

45 Cedric Benson (03.06)

46 Adrian Peterson (05.08)

47 Marques Colston (04.07)

48 Terrell Suggs

49 Marc Bulger (05.05)

50 Andre Johnson (05.01)

My question: with this scoring should I be scooping all of the premiere IDPs right asap??

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Your rankings are only one tool - albeit the most objective (read "bright lined") tool. You also have to take into account how the owners are likely to draft (Is anyone else really going to draft DeMeco Ryans in the 1st round?) and other things like injury risk that are difficult to incorporate directly into your projections.

All the projections point out is relative value, that is VBD. It's a great starting point, but that's all it is.

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Your rankings are only one tool - albeit the most objective (read "bright lined") tool. You also have to take into account how the owners are likely to draft (Is anyone else really going to draft DeMeco Ryans in the 1st round?) and other things like injury risk that are difficult to incorporate directly into your projections. All the projections point out is relative value, that is VBD. It's a great starting point, but that's all it is.

You also have to take into account that it is a Dynasty league, not a redraft, and you are not just drafting for this season. Age matters.
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VBD is a redraft tool, not a dynasty tool. Although IDP rankings should track pretty well between redraft and dynasty, since more things can happen to destroy an IDP's value than can happen to an offensive player (scheme change is more damaging than offense, position shifts happen a lot more often, rookies push out veterans faster).

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Your scoring is pretty close to standard scoring. It is not as overly weighted to defense as you suggest.

Here is a rule of thumb I usually do in my IDP dynasty leagues (depending on who falls, it can be different). It's kind of a general guideline. This is mainly for leagues with 11 IDP starters. If you start less, then I usually take slightly fewer IDPs per grouping of rounds.

I rarely draft an IDP in the first 5 rounds.

Between rounds 6 and 10, I will take 2-3 IDPs, thus having 7-8 offensive players by the end of round 10.

If I have 8 offensive and 2 IDPs after 10 rounds, then during rounds 11-20, I try to get around 5 more IDPs.

If I have 7 offensive and 3 IDPs after 10 rounds, then I try to get 4 IDP's during rounds 11-20.

After 20 rounds, I like to have around 7 IDP's...but generally a range of 6-8 is acceptable.

Then I shoot for 3-4 per 10 rounds the rest of the way.

These are just very general guidelines I use to kind of keep track of where I am and to make sure I have a good mix of offensive starters, IDP starters, and my key offensive backups. Adjust accordingly based on the lineup requirements.

Remember, this is just a basic guideline of what I do. Others do different things. There is no right or wrong way. This should not be etched in stone, as you have to adjust on the fly in drafts.

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VBD is a redraft tool, not a dynasty tool. Although IDP rankings should track pretty well between redraft and dynasty, since more things can happen to destroy an IDP's value than can happen to an offensive player (scheme change is more damaging than offense, position shifts happen a lot more often, rookies push out veterans faster).

This is an overstatement IMHO. I agree that VBD essentially cannot be applied beyond the coming season for the simple reason that projections beyond the coming season amount to folly, the fact is that they provide a present value baseline from which you can start to derive future value for players in dynasty.

In my most recent inaugural dynasty draft, I used VBD to opt in favor of a couple of IDP studs in their primes at their respective positions - Peppers and Adrian Wilson - rather than go for far lesser offensive players to make up for some of the disadvantages of my later picks in the serpentine after drafting 1.01. My thinking was that VBD was valid tool for these guys because they were legit studs at their positions who seemed to me unlikely to drop off in performance very soon, so I used that to get an idea as to whether their values indeed justified their proposed draft position, which I felt it did obviously.

Again, it's just one tool, and it certainly is used differently in dynasty than in redraft, but I definitely think it has its place in both.

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Another quick question

This is a 10 team, nonPPR, Start Up Dynasty.

I picked up Willie Parker and Reggie Bush already, and I have a chance to trade up to grab Adrian Peterson (I dont know what these people are thinking...).

The trade is worth it in picks itself (I trade 3.08/28 and 4.03/33 and get 2.09/19 and 5.02/42), but my question is should I use my first 3 picks on RB no matter the value?

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I would absolutely take Peterson at 19 in a startup dynasty, no matter what my roster was. That is a complete no brainer in my opinion. He should have been taken in round 1. Great trade by the way. :confused:

Yes...trade up an take Peterson. You can't offer, sign and close that deal quickly enough. I appreciate a few of the IDP regulars and braintrust board members weighing in and helping out AC05.AC05, if you have more questions, drop them in this thread. A few folks will come around help if/when time permits and you will find the vibe here is very different from the Shark Pool and or AC areas.
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Ok, made the trade (even moved up 6 spots in Rd 7 as well)...so now I have

RB: Bush, Peterson, FWP

QB:

WR:

My next picks are 5.02, 5.08, 6.03, 7.02, and then back to normal. At that point, everybody will have taken the WRs they want (I dont have a 3rd or 4th Rd pick), so Im thinking QB/WR/WR...obv depending on who is there.

What would be the value of selecting a bigtime stud (or 2?) IDP with one of those picks? The value at WR won't drop much, as I strongly believe that the guys Im in the league with will fill up on all their starters before going back and getting reserves...which is why I plan to take Turner in late middle rounds...I also dont think they know their ### from their heads when it comes to Def players...so Im not too worried about value there.

My problem is all the QBs will be gone by then- Payton, Palmer, Brees, Bulger were off the board by 15...at what point do I have to look to trade up to grab somebody decent?

EDIT: Im getting laughed at for moving up to take Peterson...Im starting to think he would have fallen to me...oh well, definitely worth it.

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Ok, made the trade (even moved up 6 spots in Rd 7 as well)...so now I haveRB: Bush, Peterson, FWPQB:WR: My next picks are 5.02, 5.08, 6.03, 7.02, and then back to normal. At that point, everybody will have taken the WRs they want (I dont have a 3rd or 4th Rd pick), so Im thinking QB/WR/WR...obv depending on who is there. What would be the value of selecting a bigtime stud (or 2?) IDP with one of those picks? The value at WR won't drop much, as I strongly believe that the guys Im in the league with will fill up on all their starters before going back and getting reserves...which is why I plan to take Turner in late middle rounds...I also dont think they know their ### from their heads when it comes to Def players...so Im not too worried about value there.My problem is all the QBs will be gone by then- Payton, Palmer, Brees, Bulger were off the board by 15...at what point do I have to look to trade up to grab somebody decent?EDIT: Im getting laughed at for moving up to take Peterson...Im starting to think he would have fallen to me...oh well, definitely worth it.

You don't move up for "decent", just when someone who shouldn't be there is screaming value. If Brady is there when you pick next, take him. Otherwise, you might want older stud starters at some of those picks (Harrison at WR, for example) to get you through. 1-2 of the good young QBs would be a nice flyer, as would Kitna, with the rook later.I'd expect to be able to plug & play a WR solidly into WR 3 - don't worry about that much. Get QB & WR1/2 handled over the next 3-4 picks with possibly a value pick elsewhere.A true lights out stud IDP would help if you can cause a run. I think I would do that at 7.02, but make sure you don't draft an old IDP stud, get soemone youngish.What are your starting requirements/roster size? You didn't give Offense requirements.
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Steve, thanks for your help

27 Roster Spots

Offense- normal scoring (non PPR)- 4pts/pass TD, 6pts/Rush/Rec TD

1 QB

2 RB

3 WR

1 PK

Defense

2 LB

2 DB

2 DL

1 LB/DB/DL

14 starters.

FWIW, Im about 98% sure there will not be an IDP selected before I select at 7.02

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I'd definitely look to grab a younger IDP who scores well at that 7.02 spot, unless you want to wait to try and grab 2 of teh top tier around a bend.

You're not going to playing a ton of IDP, so you don't want to go too heavy, but grabbing Ryans & Adrian Wilson or something like that out of the next 4-5 picks would be very sweet, building up your difference-makers.

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Haha, I was wrong! The first IDP player (Ryans) went off the board at 4.02. There is soooo much value left on the board, but Im not sure how long to wait to start taking IDPs. Is round 9 too late, or does it just depend on how quickly the ones I value begin disappearing?

Its tough because I have no clue what these guys are going to do. Portis didnt go off the board until pick #36 (4.06). What I do know is that these guys will fill out their starters before going back to get back-ups. Do I wait until that happens to start drafting IDPs?

Right now I have Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, Willie Parker, and Torry Holt (moved up 3 spots to grab him before the guy at the 4th round turn did- he had QB/RB/RB). My next pick will be a young WR- either Evans or C Johnson probably, and then I'll look to get Roeth if he is still there...if not maybe Hass.

I guess my question is, how do you tell the line between picking up that QB/WR3 and picking up your first IDP? If there are still 3 QBs on board that are ok with me, should I just pick my top IDP? Is this where VBD comes in?

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Haha, I was wrong! The first IDP player (Ryans) went off the board at 4.02. There is soooo much value left on the board, but Im not sure how long to wait to start taking IDPs. Is round 9 too late, or does it just depend on how quickly the ones I value begin disappearing?Its tough because I have no clue what these guys are going to do. Portis didnt go off the board until pick #36 (4.06). What I do know is that these guys will fill out their starters before going back to get back-ups. Do I wait until that happens to start drafting IDPs? Right now I have Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, Willie Parker, and Torry Holt (moved up 3 spots to grab him before the guy at the 4th round turn did- he had QB/RB/RB). My next pick will be a young WR- either Evans or C Johnson probably, and then I'll look to get Roeth if he is still there...if not maybe Hass. I guess my question is, how do you tell the line between picking up that QB/WR3 and picking up your first IDP? If there are still 3 QBs on board that are ok with me, should I just pick my top IDP? Is this where VBD comes in?

Okay, first. Nice job getting Torry Holt. By the way, moving up for him was good - even ifyou got laughed at. You've got the best RB prospect otu of each of the last 2 drafts, and Willie Parker. You've got Torry Holt. You need a plan at his point, because you may be able to win this league while being loaded for the future.What I know is that these guys are a bit loopy. Everythng depends on when things begin disappearing. Is that Calvin or Chad Johnson? Please tell me it's Calvin, if it's Chad, he's got to be your next pick. Is Harrison or Wayne still out there? I'd say to keep taking offensive value. If you got Holt in the 4th, anything is possible. You might be able to get 2-3 stud WR to go with your RB's. which would be nuts. If you know they won't take backups, and you don't like any of the QB's, I'd draft elsewhere, try and grab a vet for a year or 2, and/or pounce on the young crop once the dust clears.With this board, you should be fine making hay late on IDP's using players that slip. You shouldbe able to fillout your second spot at each IDP spot fine by waiting, and once you get past the really top tier IDP's, many will be similar, you aren't playing many of them.
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Hey Steve- thanks for the help. Yes, these guys are a little loopy with their picks. With Brees going in the first round, and AJ Hawk (Rd 4) going before Portis (late Rd 4)....its definitely not a shark league.

I was talking about Calvin Johnson, but I actually just traded my 5th Rd pick for McNabb (10 QBs have already been taken, and this guy 'accidentally' took 2)..

So my roster looks like this:

QB: McNabb

RB: W Parker, R Bush, A Peterson

WR: T Holt

There is still a ton of talent left to be had at WR, so Im not worried about the value at that position, and I figured I could have a top flight QB and still end up with 3 top WRs. The draft is beginning to spew defensive players, so Im sure I'll be able to get a WR in Rd6 and Rd7. WRs that are left: C Johnson (DET), Boldin, Evans, A Johnson, Owens, Jav. Walker, etc.

Does that sound like the route I should take? I am not at all familiar with IDPs and their value, and it just seems like the way our league scores IDPs are more relevant than those leagues that those players score less. Is there just not a large gap between the players once you pass the top 2-3 guys at each position?

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This is not abnormal for people to wait this long and longer to pick IDP's even though the VBD says they should be flying off the board now. What you're going to want to try to do if you can is be the first guy to pick at each IDP position, and nab the elite players from that position who usually generate a scoring premium, e.g. Julius Peppers, Adrian Wilson, etc.

You can do that by being patient with drafting a QB - which is solid advice anyway - and filling your more difficult offensive positions such as TE early on and then forgetting about backups there until late.

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Redman, I think you misread my posts. IDPs are ALREADY flying off the table. We are currently at pick 5.06 (56) and the following players have been taken: D Ryans, AJ Hawk, Bullock, Fletcher, Merriman, Pepers, J Tayler, A Pierce, and Z Thomas.

My current roster is:

QB- McNabb

RB- A Peterson, R Bush, W Parker

WR- Holt

Offensive talent still available:

Calvin Johnson, A Gates, L Evans, Boldin, A Johnson, J Walker, T Owens, etc

My next pick is at 6.09 (10 picks away)- From what I've learned in the last 2 days (researching my butt off/asking tons of questions), my next two picks (at least) should still be offensive talent- which would be WRs.

Is my thinking (WR in 6, WR in 7, best valued IDP in 8) correct?

Defensive Scoring: DL/LB/DB

Pts per Solo Tackle: 2/2/2

Pts per Assisted Tackle: 2/1/1

Pts per Sack: 5/4/4

Pts per Safety: 2/2/2

Pts per Pass Deflected: 1/1/2

Pts per Interception: 5/5/5

Pts per Forced Fumble: 2/2/2

Pts per Fumble Recovery: 2/2/2

Pts per Touchdowns: 6/6/6

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Redman, I think you misread my posts. IDPs are ALREADY flying off the table. We are currently at pick 5.06 (56) and the following players have been taken: D Ryans, AJ Hawk, Bullock, Fletcher, Merriman, Pepers, J Tayler, A Pierce, and Z Thomas. My current roster is: QB- McNabb RB- A Peterson, R Bush, W ParkerWR- HoltOffensive talent still available:Calvin Johnson, A Gates, L Evans, Boldin, A Johnson, J Walker, T Owens, etcMy next pick is at 6.09 (10 picks away)- From what I've learned in the last 2 days (researching my butt off/asking tons of questions), my next two picks (at least) should still be offensive talent- which would be WRs. Is my thinking (WR in 6, WR in 7, best valued IDP in 8) correct?Defensive Scoring: DL/LB/DBPts per Solo Tackle: 2/2/2Pts per Assisted Tackle: 2/1/1Pts per Sack: 5/4/4Pts per Safety: 2/2/2Pts per Pass Deflected: 1/1/2Pts per Interception: 5/5/5Pts per Forced Fumble: 2/2/2Pts per Fumble Recovery: 2/2/2Pts per Touchdowns: 6/6/6

I like that, but I would aim for Gates as one of the "WR" in case they decide to switch to TE required down the line. He's a fine WR 2/3 in combined leagues, and it gives you some insurance that you can't get easily elsewhere. If he's gone, I'd take Vernon Davis later as a WR reserve.That's crazy, you giot McNabb for a 5th becuase they accidentally draftred 2. Late QB you may want: Kolb from Philly - the heir apparent.I think these guys think they're owning you with you bouncing everywhere.Look out for some IDP returning from injury or non-name guys who may be below the radar.
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How many IDPs should I have on my roster? We start 7, and have a 27 man roster. I was thinking 12 (4 of each DL/LB/DB), but is that too many? Should I have more LBs than DLs, etc?

I would have at least 5 LB's since they are normally the highest scoring, and thus usually the best flex play. I would say 5 LBs, 3-4 DBs, 3 DLs.
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You guys are awesome :rolleyes:

Here is my team so far:

QB: McNabb

RB: Reggie Bush, Willie Parker, Adrian Peterson

WR: Torry Holt, A Boldin, Santana Moss, Hines Ward, Calvin Johnson

LB: Ernie Sims, Patrick Willis

DB:

DL:

I have these guys targeted for my next 4 selections: Leinart, Roeth, Randy Moss, K Jones...

I'm not too worried about getting good IDPs to close out my draft...these guys are crazy and I'm almost positive I'll end up with 1 Top 10 player at each position, and at least 2-3 in the Top 20- they haven't done research and have begun picking big name players or just good players on great D's. Again, I'm not worried here...and if something unexpected happens I will have plenty of trade bait.

I know Im going to get Leinart (I really like him, and I think it is good value in Rd 12, plus 2 of the strongest teams have yet to pick a QB). Roeth is just a throw in- with McNabb coming off injury, and Leinart being so young, Id like a 3rd wheel here.

I don't think the other guys in this league will pick up Randy Moss...its a high risk/high reward pick imo- I know the opinions are very diff on him, but I think getting him in Rd 15 is a steal.

I love Kevin Jones and I am 80% sure nobody will take him in the next 4 rounds. I have plenty of depth and can afford to wait until midseason (or even next year) for him to play.

Thoughts on all of this?

IDPs I could pick up right now: Posluszny (I dont think he'll get picked up soon, but is it worth the risk of waiting?), Umenviora, Beason, Brooking, Peterson (JAX), Roy Williams (he definitely wont be available in 5 rounds)...etc etc...

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