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Philip Rivers Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Moe Green
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
First time I saw Phil play this year and was surprised how much zip he was putting on the ball.
Tau837
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Amazing how this guy is winning games again, right? It's almost like there is an advantage to playing behind an offensive line that doesn't suck and having a kicker who can make big kicks, eh?
The Frankman
Footballguy
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Tau837
Footballguy
Impossible to know right now. I doubt the Colts and Rivers know.
Do not think it will be Eason; hard to believe he would be ready to be a full-time starter next season. That would be a lot of cap savings, though.
Do not think it will be Brissett. They've tried that and it did not work out well. I don't see any team signing Brissett to start next season.
Do not think they will be in position to draft a top 3 QB without giving up a huge amount of draft capital. Assume they won't do that.
So, assuming Rivers doesn't implode down the stretch, assuming his offseason surgery is successful, and assuming Rivers wants to continue, IMO it is most likely he will be back.
Another possibility I have heard discussed by talking heads is that Detroit could release Stafford, in which case the Colts could be one of his best landing spots. Not sure how likely this scenario is. Not sure if this would be more or less likely than Rivers if he does indeed become a free agent. Stafford is about 6 years younger.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Anybody know how Rivers has performed in his career in the kind of cold he'll see this weekend?
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Rivers is a perfect 4-0 during the Wild Card Round of the Playoffs.
And on the cold weather front, with Saturday’s forecast showing the temperature around 32 degrees, Rivers is 1-5 (0-3 in the playoffs) in his career when the temp is freezing or colder at kickoff. In those games, Rivers has completed 58.9 percent of his passes, averages 298.2 passing yards per game, thrown 10 touchdown and 7 interceptions, with a passer rating of 84.2.
https://www.1075thefan.com/kevins-sports-news/colts/colts-tuesday-notebook-philip-rivers-talks-missing-super-bowl-piece/
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Colts were much less disappointing in 2020 than they were in 2019 in large part because Rivers was a big upgrade at QB.
The people that said IND should have signed Cam as their QB instead look pretty silly.
The people that have been saying that the QB position was what has been holding the chargers organization back for the past several years look even more silly.
Oh, and as to the OP'er of the thread that started this all.... I hope you didn't drop Philip Rivers for Joey Harrington no matter what the usual suspects in this thread typically say when they bump it. But what do I know, I am unwilling or unable to have an intellectually honest conversation about Rivers. So maybe you should have dropped Rivers for Harrington after all.
"Really should be the end of the story IMO"
Tau837
Footballguy
Remembering that the original title of this thread was "Philip Rivers Is Terrible," which was the basis of @LHUCKS response and @Jeff Pasquino 'island' reference, this is my favorite post in the thread to look back on andYou and I were alone on that island for quite some time, IIRC.LHUCKS said:
I've been saying this for over a year.
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Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Philip Rivers is retiring.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers-rams/story/2021-01-20/philip-rivers-retiring-chargers-colts-saint-michael-high-school-alabama#:~:text=Philip Rivers%2C who came to,will announce his retirement today.&text=That streak is the second,quarterback behind Brett Favre's 297.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers-rams/story/2021-01-20/philip-rivers-retiring-chargers-colts-saint-michael-high-school-alabama#:~:text=Philip Rivers%2C who came to,will announce his retirement today.&text=That streak is the second,quarterback behind Brett Favre's 297.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Good guy, only thing missing from a stellar career is a Super Bowl ring.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
The modern day Dan Marino. great stats, leader, great arm. Never got the ring though. It happens. Now he can kick back and enjoy ... Orlando. Uggh. Don't know about that choice.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
So . . . HOF worthy? Rivers ends up (as of the end of this season):
- 5th in career completions
- 5th in career passing yards
- 5th in career passing TD
- 12th in career passer rating
- 14th in passing yds/gm
- 5th in net yds/attempt
- 12th overall in career approximate value
- 12th in HOF monitor score among QBs
- 8 Pro Bowl selections (0 All Pro selections)
- 134-106 (.558) as a starter
- 5-7 (.417) as a starter in the post-season
Some folks might be surprised at those career totals. Others will say, "yeah but he never won anything." He played at the same time as TB12, Peyton, and Brees (which makes puts him in a lower tier). Almost all those career numbers will be passed by the likes of Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Rodgers in the next 2-3 years (if they play that long).
- 5th in career completions
- 5th in career passing yards
- 5th in career passing TD
- 12th in career passer rating
- 14th in passing yds/gm
- 5th in net yds/attempt
- 12th overall in career approximate value
- 12th in HOF monitor score among QBs
- 8 Pro Bowl selections (0 All Pro selections)
- 134-106 (.558) as a starter
- 5-7 (.417) as a starter in the post-season
Some folks might be surprised at those career totals. Others will say, "yeah but he never won anything." He played at the same time as TB12, Peyton, and Brees (which makes puts him in a lower tier). Almost all those career numbers will be passed by the likes of Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Rodgers in the next 2-3 years (if they play that long).
Tau837
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree he should be, but I heard a discussion on talk radio and another on talk TV where they mentioned Brady, both Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers as locks from the era and there were a couple of people suggesting Ryan at least got to a SB and will end up with better numbers. Essentially, the argument against Rivers was that the HOF really shouldn't be inducting 25% of the league's starting QBs playing at the same time. One guy essentially said he put up decent numbers but they were basically empty calories as his teams never came close to winning anything (and had some years they really should have been a real contender). I suspect opinions may vary on Rivers.
fightingillini
Footballguy
Rivers will eventually get in due to his stats, but I am in the camp that he isn't really a HOF caliber QB. Just compare Rivers to the current QBs in the HOF, along with Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger and Mahomes who will all be in the HOF in the future. Rivers falls way short on talent and memories. Is there a signature moment that people will remember Rivers? Not that I can think of. He only won 5 playoff games in 15 years, never made a Super Bowl while playing with HOF talent in LT and Gates. There is no way I can think that Rivers is one the best QBs of all time. Rivers IMO was a very good NFL QB that played for a long time. I totally respect the guy, he had a great career, and I wish all the best in his retirement.
We're going to have the same debate when Frank Gore hangs it up. Frank Gore will eventually be in the HOF, no question about it. But is Gore one of the best RBs of all time? Not even close.
Tau837
Footballguy
You might not think so, but playing the AFC championship game 6 days after tearing his ACL is definitely a signature moment that epitomizes his toughness, one of his strongest traits.
Rivers has a stronger NFL resume than Warren Moon, and Marino and Fouts are reasonable comps. None of those three won a Super Bowl or had winning postseason records.
Rivers wasn't as good as Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Brees, all of whom are arguably among the top 10 QBs of all time, but he doesn't have to be as good or better than them to be HOF worthy. He happened to play in the golden era of QB play in the history of the league to date. IMO he was better than Roethlisberger, though I know that doesn't fit the popular narrative, because the Steelers had more team success with Roethlisberger. Mahomes isn't truly a contemporary for Rivers, so I don't think he is particularly relevant to the conversation.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
What makes all the debates about player HOF worthiness is there is no clearly delineated methodology as to what makes a player a HOFer. There are only so many clear cut NO BRAINERS and then a decent percentage of players that spark some debate. In the grand scheme of things and history of football, is there really THAT much difference in honoring 30 players at a certain position instead of 20? Either way, those players would be in the top sliver of players at their position.
IMO, there are three groupings that get consideration: key cogs in a dynastic team; players with insane peak numbers (but not as good the rest of their careers or had short careers); and those that were very good for a long, long time. I generally look at players and ask "could the story of the NFL in that era be told without including PLAYER X." As you mentioned, many players have signature moments, highlight reel plays, and big wins. Some players like Brady, Rice, and LT1 check off every possible box. There should be a grand pantheon for those level players, the platinum club so to speak. But there are lots of Namath's, Stabler's, Monk's, Swann's, and Bettis' to go around too.
Dynasty
Footballguy
Rivers never won a Super Bowl. But, he was the quarterback on the best team in the NFL one year. And, nobody seems to blame Rivers for the playoff loss.
What If Marlon McCree Never Fumbles
What If Marlon McCree Never Fumbles
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I generally shy away from comparing players from different generations. If your argument was to compare Moon, Marino, and Fouts because none of them won a SB, so be it.
I definitely would put Marino in a different class than Rivers. Rivers JUST passed Marino in passing yards this season . . . and he retired 22 years ago . . . nearly 10,000 passing yards ahead of Elway in career passing yards (who was 2nd). Marino led the league in passing yardage 5 times, passing TD 3 times, was a first team All Pro 3 times, and won 16 more games than Rivers did in almost the same number of games played.
I realize it isn't Rivers fault that he played with some of the greatest QBs to ever lace 'em up. And we can't hold it against Marino that a lot of the other QBs in the league at the time were pretty meh. IMO, Marino performed better vs. his peers than Rivers did vs. his peers.
That being said, Rivers still deserves a spot in the HOF. IIRC, there was a stretch where in 14 of 15 seasons the AFC was represented in the SB by Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger (with Flacco being the only exception). That was something we may never see happen again.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I forgot to mention that a lot of the Chargers issues had nothing to do with Rivers. In 2010, the Chargers had the #1 ranked offense AND the #1 ranked defense . . . and only won 9 games and missed the playoffs.
In 15 years as a starter, Rivers led his teams to Top 10 rankings in points scored 9 times and Top 10 rankings in yardage 9 times. We can discuss and debate why his teams did not have more success.
In 15 years as a starter, Rivers led his teams to Top 10 rankings in points scored 9 times and Top 10 rankings in yardage 9 times. We can discuss and debate why his teams did not have more success.
Tau837
Footballguy
That's easy, though I'm not sure HOF voters will take it into account:
- Bottom of NFL level ownership - there was a reason the Mannings refused to have Eli play for the franchise
- Poor front office, heavily influenced by nepotism, with 7 Spanos family members in front office positions, including John Spanos as Director of Football Operations
- Rivers has had the least compelling collection of head coaches of any QB who is in the HOF or will receive strong consideration for it - since he became the Chargers starter in 2006:
- Marty (1) - 2006
- Norv (6) - 2007-2012
- McCoy (4) - 2013-2016
- Lynn (3) - 2017-2019
- Reich (1) - 2020 [Colts]
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