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The Kobe Bryant-to-Chicago trade talks are very real, and they've been real for a while.

The Los Angeles Lakers and Chicago Bulls have been having daily discussions about Bryant trade possibilities for at least the past week, with Bryant's no-trade clause throwing a unique wrench into the situation, according to sources.

The Lakers are asking for a package built around Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah, which is more than Chicago is willing to surrender. Also, Bryant would not want to play in Chicago if the Bulls surrendered all four of those players, believing there would not be enough talent left to compete for a championship, and he would veto that trade even if the Bulls and Lakers were both in favor of it.

Further complicating matters is the division within the upper echelon of the Lakers front office, a house divided between the competing desires of owner Jerry Buss, his son, Jim, daughter Jeanie (and her boyfriend, coach Phil Jackson) and general manager Mitch Kupchak. According to sources, one faction seems more determined than ever to part with Bryant, while others still are hanging onto the belief that Bryant can still be persuaded to stay in Los Angeles.

Bryant sat out the Lakers' final exhibition game Friday night in Las Vegas after injuring his right wrist in the Lakers' previous game. It has become an accepted fact around the Lakers that Bryant still wishes to be traded, and two sources with direct knowledge of the ongoing trade discussions said Bryant's preferred -- and most likely -- destination remains Chicago.

So while the NBA's only no-trade clause gives Bryant a substantial amount of leverage in determining his future, it also is hampering the Lakers in their efforts to get something approaching fair value for arguably the best player in the league. One source said the Bulls' supposed opposition to including Deng in any deal had been overstated in recent media reports.

A source told ESPN.com that the likelihood of a Bryant trade before opening night seemed higher a few days ago than it does now, and a deal going down sometime before the end of November now seemed more likely. But the situation remained fluid, and with other teams trying to lobby the Bryant camp to get on the list of his acceptable destinations, the trade possibilities surrounding Bryant only figured to increase in the days leading up to Tuesday night's start of the NBA season.

To be honest, I don't see this deal happening anytime soon -- too many salary cap issues. After December 15, the Bulls can trade Andres Nocioni (since he was recently re-signed). Maybe then there is a possibility. Something like Ben Gordon, Nocioni, either Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah and salary filler for Kobe.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.ETA: Not sure how this'll work salary-wise, unless they give up Ben Wallace or re-sign Gordon first.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.
If they are actually talking daily then Deng has to be involved. Otherwise the Lakers wouldn't even bother.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.
If they are actually talking daily then Deng has to be involved. Otherwise the Lakers wouldn't even bother.
Not many other teams can trade for Bryant and still have something left, and have pieces that may interest LA. Chicago is one. Dallas is another. Not much else out there.The Lakers will likely get $.80 on the dollar, but they don't have much choice at this point.
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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.

Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.

If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.

Lakers:

Fisher,Farmar

Gordon,JCritt

Deng,Walton

Odom,Thomas

Bynum,Turiaf

Bulls:

Hinrich,Duhon

Kobe,Sefolosha

Nocioni,Griffin

Smith,Noah

Wallace,Gray

maybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.

I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets. I may be wrong, but it seems like they're giving up too much and, in the end, not really gaining any ground.
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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I love the LAker fans sense of entitlement - Deng is not a must - the Lakers are not in the drivers seat - they need to get rid of Kobe or have a disaster on their hands. All Chicago has to do is wait - I can't wait to see a Garnett type deal and al the Faker fans howling foul! Remember last season - Gunz crying that Faker crap (Farmar, scrubs and picks) were pleanty for an aging J Kidd who was on the "downside" - then Kidd goes out and averages a triple double in the playoffs! LOL at Lakers!
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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets. I may be wrong, but it seems like they're giving up too much and, in the end, not really gaining any ground.
That's certainly a fair assessment of the situation. Another view is that if LeBron can take that band of misfit toys to the finals, Kobe can certainly get to the finals with Hinrich, Nocioni, and Big Ben.
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JMO But the only way the Bulls have a shot against say the Celts would be with the solid depth advantage they have over them.

With Kobe, the Bulls still aren't better than the Pistons or Celts (yes, I'm already crowning their asses. Ainge, for everything bad he's done, had one hell of an offseason).

I personally wouldn't give up on Deng. (if you also have to give Gordon, Thomas and Noah. Latter 3 I have no issues on dealing, but Deng would have to be included in any Kobe deal).

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I love the LAker fans sense of entitlement - Deng is not a must - the Lakers are not in the drivers seat - they need to get rid of Kobe or have a disaster on their hands. All Chicago has to do is wait - I can't wait to see a Garnett type deal and al the Faker fans howling foul! Remember last season - Gunz crying that Faker crap (Farmar, scrubs and picks) were pleanty for an aging J Kidd who was on the "downside" - then Kidd goes out and averages a triple double in the playoffs! LOL at Lakers!

The Lakers don't "need" to get rid of anyone - Kobe is under contract and not eligible to opt out for another 2 seasons. He's not going to hold out.And I'm glad the Lakers didn't move Bynum for Kidd. They'd have been idiots to make that trade, regardless of Bryant's whining.
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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets. I may be wrong, but it seems like they're giving up too much and, in the end, not really gaining any ground.
That's certainly a fair assessment of the situation. Another view is that if LeBron can take that band of misfit toys to the finals, Kobe take certainly get to the finals with Hinrich, Nocioni, and Big Ben.
The Cavs may have made the finals last year, but I 'm not sure they're even in the top 3 in the East now. I think the Celtics are the team to beat in the East this year.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.ETA: Not sure how this'll work salary-wise, unless they give up Ben Wallace or re-sign Gordon first.
Serious question - do you really believe that Deng is that good? I see the Bulls enough to respect his game, and he's so young that he's not a player that any team should move unless it's a blockbuster, but Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game. As a Laker fan, I don't want Kobe dealt. But if he's whining behind closed doors, and his teammates know that he wants out (as the ESPN article suggests), I'd move him in a heartbeat for Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Noah.
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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets. I may be wrong, but it seems like they're giving up too much and, in the end, not really gaining any ground.
That's certainly a fair assessment of the situation. Another view is that if LeBron can take that band of misfit toys to the finals, Kobe take certainly get to the finals with Hinrich, Nocioni, and Big Ben.
The Cavs may have made the finals last year, but I 'm not sure they're even in the top 3 in the East now. I think the Celtics are the team to beat in the East this year.
I agree. KG has to be absolutely giddy about the situation he's fallen into. It's going to be fun watching him have fun again. Good for the NBA.Must be nice being a sports fan in NE these days. Dice K getting two out RBI singles. Unreal.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.ETA: Not sure how this'll work salary-wise, unless they give up Ben Wallace or re-sign Gordon first.
Serious question - do you really believe that Deng is that good? I see the Bulls enough to respect his game, and he's so young that he's not a player that any team should move unless it's a blockbuster, but Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game. As a Laker fan, I don't want Kobe dealt. But if he's whining behind closed doors, and his teammates know that he wants out (as the ESPN article suggests), I'd move him in a heartbeat for Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Noah.
:football: Wow have things changed over the years. We had it sooooo good when Shaq and Kobe would actually play together. Now we are on the verge of not having either.
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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

:thumbup:

Look at what KG just went for. Kobe is younger than KG and a similar talent. Why do you think he'll go for so much less?

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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon. I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.ETA: Not sure how this'll work salary-wise, unless they give up Ben Wallace or re-sign Gordon first.
Serious question - do you really believe that Deng is that good? I see the Bulls enough to respect his game, and he's so young that he's not a player that any team should move unless it's a blockbuster, but Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game. As a Laker fan, I don't want Kobe dealt. But if he's whining behind closed doors, and his teammates know that he wants out (as the ESPN article suggests), I'd move him in a heartbeat for Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Noah.
Deng is very good and very young. I think the Bulls will want to keep him. Without looking at the salaries, I think they'll end up settling on:Gordon, Ty Thomas and then 2 of the 3: Noah, Nocioni, multiple draft picks.
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I really hope the side of management that wants Kobe to stay wins over, because trading Kobe RIGHT NOW is not the smart thing to do. I think they should wait for teams to get desperate and dangle Kobe more seriously. Trading a superstar, best player in the game, Kobe, for those 4 players is still not enough, Bulls would still need to add draft picks or a couple more players, I just can't see the Bulls completely gutting their team after they did so well last year and are only growing.

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Serious question - do you really believe that Deng is that good?

If he wasn't that good laker fans would be willing to make the trade without Deng included. He may not be a better player than bryant but their value isn't measured in the vacuum of who would win a game of 1-on-1 right now. Deng is younger. Deng is cheaper. Deng is ascending. Deng is not a malcontent. Deng isn't painted as selfish.Serious question - do you really think the lakers will contend for a title even with bryant over the next two seasons?
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I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets.

Gordon isn't a top 4 asset and would be even less of an asset if they acquired bryant. IMO they view Deng/Hinrich as key pieces of winning a title, Thomas/Noah as talented/young bigs, and Gordon/Nocioni/Wallace as role players a big step down from the top four. Wallace is not the same player he was two years ago and neither Gordon or Nocioni have stepped up their game the way CHI must have hoped they would or they wouldn't be this interested in bryant.
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To be honest, I don't see this deal happening anytime soon -- too many salary cap issues. After December 15, the Bulls can trade Andres Nocioni (since he was recently re-signed). Maybe then there is a possibility. Something like Ben Gordon, Nocioni, either Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah and salary filler for Kobe.

I think you are right. It seems the only teams in the mix for bryant would be CHI/DAL/PHX and all three of those teams are built to have regular season success. As the playoffs approach all three should appear to be strong playoff teams and the lakers will lose bargaining position as they struggle to finish in the top 6 in the west.CHI has no reason to pull the trigger right now. They can get a high seed in the East and have a title shot right now. Their players are young and gaining value as time passes. The lakers on the other hand have an aging commodity and little hope of escaping the first round of the playoffs. The only news around the team is whether or not bryant gets traded. Nobody talks about their title hopes.... as they have none.The lakers are losing bargaining power every day unless there's a huge injury to CHI/DAL/PHX.
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Watch for the possible contract extensions of Gordon and Deng this week. If they sign before the October 31 deadline, they can not be traded until after the season. The Bulls went down to the wire on Hinrich's extension last year and negotiations are going similarly with Gordon and Deng this year. If both sign extensions, a Kobe-Bulls deal is almost certainly dead.

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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

:mellow:

Look at what KG just went for. Kobe is younger than KG and a similar talent. Why do you think he'll go for so much less?

Minnesota got Al Jefferson and a few throw-ins. Hardly a great package.

But, I agree that Gordon and Thomas won't get it done.

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Deng is not going to be part of any deal.

The Bulls are the ones holding the cards. They are not going to deal him.

The deal will start with Gordon and Tyrus Thomas. Then there will be filler like Nocioni and picks or something. Maybe Thabo.

That deal would be better than what Minnesota got for Garnett.

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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

:bowtie:

Look at what KG just went for. Kobe is younger than KG and a similar talent. Why do you think he'll go for so much less?

Minnesota got Al Jefferson and a few throw-ins. Hardly a great package.

But, I agree that Gordon and Thomas won't get it done.

I don't think you realize how good Al Jefferson could be.
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Interesting to see this yesterday as I was sitting at a bar.

I really don't think Deng and Hinrich are going anywhere. Paxson seems really high on both of these guys, with good reason, and Skiles loves them both as well.

I'm really torn on this entire issue... not a big fan of Kobe's personality at all, but at the end of the day, he is one of the best in the game. With Hinrich and Deng playing with him, it would be very interesting to see how they would play together.

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As a Laker fan, these comments are a dagger:

Jackson says Kobe not putting 'heart and soul' into on-court performance

Amidst the daily trade discussions swirling around Kobe Bryant and the Lakers this preseason, coach Phil Jackson is upset at his star player's level of commitment.

"Obviously he hasn't thrown his heart and soul into performing on the floor," Jackson told reporters after practice Saturday. "That hurts me a little bit. … He was going to work at this thing and [would] put his full being into this. Right now, he's having a hard time doing that."

Clearly Bryant disagreed with his coach's assessment.

"That [should be] the least of his concerns or anybody's concerns," Bryant said. "You don't have to worry about that. … I'm ready to play. Period. You don't have to worry about me."

:lmao::wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
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As a Laker fan, these comments are a dagger:

Jackson says Kobe not putting 'heart and soul' into on-court performance

Amidst the daily trade discussions swirling around Kobe Bryant and the Lakers this preseason, coach Phil Jackson is upset at his star player's level of commitment.

"Obviously he hasn't thrown his heart and soul into performing on the floor," Jackson told reporters after practice Saturday. "That hurts me a little bit. … He was going to work at this thing and [would] put his full being into this. Right now, he's having a hard time doing that."

Clearly Bryant disagreed with his coach's assessment.

"That [should be] the least of his concerns or anybody's concerns," Bryant said. "You don't have to worry about that. … I'm ready to play. Period. You don't have to worry about me."

:shrug::wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
Wasn't Jackson supposed to be bryant's biggest backer in the organization?
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As a diehard Laker/Kobe fan this is becoming more and more of a reality.Its my hope and dream that Kobe never wears anything other than purple and gold, but its looking more and more unlikely.If its the Bulls, which seems the most aggresive team and kobe's choice then Luol Deng and Ty Thomas are a must. I think if you add Ben Gordon its a deal. I think the Lakers would also take Sefolosha and a 1st instead of Gordon.Lakers:Fisher,FarmarGordon,JCrittDeng,WaltonOdom,ThomasBynum,TuriafBulls:Hinrich,DuhonKobe,SefoloshaNocioni,GriffinSmith,NoahWallace,Graymaybe sign Webber to add another vet big man.I dont think anything happens til the offseason, but these next few days will be scary as a fan.

I don't think the Bulls would do this, they'd be giving up 3 out of 4 of their most valuable assets. I may be wrong, but it seems like they're giving up too much and, in the end, not really gaining any ground.
That's certainly a fair assessment of the situation. Another view is that if LeBron can take that band of misfit toys to the finals, Kobe can certainly get to the finals with Hinrich, Nocioni, and Big Ben.
The Bulls are not trading Luol Deng. That's the sticking point in a trade along with the cap issues they would have in trading for Kobe. I think, if anything happens, a 3rd team would need to be involved.I believe Paxson will give this team another season to see if they can get out of East. By then, it may be too late, but there's no way I can see him trading 3 or 4 pieces for Bryant - if Paxson does something, he's not selling the farm.
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I agree. It may happen, but I don't see it happening soon.

I wouldn't give all 4 of Gordon+Deng+Thomas+Noah.

Chicago will not give up Deng, IMO. Gordon would certainly go, Noah would likely go, Tyrus Thomas is probably the main sticking point.

ETA: Not sure how this'll work salary-wise, unless they give up Ben Wallace or re-sign Gordon first.

Serious question - do you really believe that Deng is that good? I see the Bulls enough to respect his game, and he's so young that he's not a player that any team should move unless it's a blockbuster, but Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

As a Laker fan, I don't want Kobe dealt. But if he's whining behind closed doors, and his teammates know that he wants out (as the ESPN article suggests), I'd move him in a heartbeat for Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Noah.

There's no way Paxson would make that deal.
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems. I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :mellow:
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.

As a Laker fan, I don't want Kobe dealt. But if he's whining behind closed doors, and his teammates know that he wants out (as the ESPN article suggests), I'd move him in a heartbeat for Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Noah.

There's no way Paxson would make that deal.
Agreed. It's only slightly more likely that Kobe would sign off, either. Kobe's image is damaged from all this trade talk, but he's better off staying with LAL for first-round exits than getting traded to another first-round exit team.
I think Paxson is unlikely to give more than Gordon, Noah OR Thomas, and then draft picks/cap filler. I don't know if the Bulls can make a deal work financially.

Paxson holds the cards here.

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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

:mellow:

Look at what KG just went for. Kobe is younger than KG and a similar talent. Why do you think he'll go for so much less?

Minnesota got Al Jefferson and a few throw-ins. Hardly a great package.

But, I agree that Gordon and Thomas won't get it done.

I think you're greatly underrating Al Jefferson.
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Bulls would be fools to do that deal.

I think they probably feel Gordon is expendable, and I get the feeling Thomas is not Skiles kind of player. Gordon and Thomas should be able to get that deal done. Kobe has forced the Lakers hand by whining to the media. I think Thomas and Gordon would be two nice young additions to the rebuilding effort in LA.

:no:

Look at what KG just went for. Kobe is younger than KG and a similar talent. Why do you think he'll go for so much less?

Minnesota got Al Jefferson and a few throw-ins. Hardly a great package.

But, I agree that Gordon and Thomas won't get it done.

I don't think you realize how good Al Jefferson could be.
:thumbdown:

Watched nearly every game he played for the Celtics.

I think he has a decent chance at becoming a fringe all-star. I think he has a very small chance at becoming a top 10 player in the league.

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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :goodposting:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :goodposting:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
It's funny, I almost bet the Lakers Under yesterday. Went back to look at it today and it was gone. Bulls number was at 50.5 yesterday.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :shrug:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
It's funny, I almost bet the Lakers Under yesterday. Went back to look at it today and it was gone. Bulls number was at 50.5 yesterday.
I just checked on a site I'm familiar with and Bulls o/u is still 50.5 but it's slow to move on any news. I'm not so sure I'd take la and the under if a trade was made. You might be better off taking the under and hoping there was no trade.Sounds to me like the current la situation is this;- The franchise has no hope with him,- the owner not only seems willing to deal him but is willing to go public that he's willing to deal him,- the coach doesn't think he's trying,- the GM seems in paralysis unwilling to do or say much about the situation because he realizes the fans estimation of bryants worth far exceeds anything he can get for bryant and isn't looking forward the perception "they GAVE bryant away just like they did Shaq!?"- and the player himself seems dispassionate because there's nothing he can do to force a trade at this point or to make the team a contender by himself and he undoubtedly realized he's been wasting the prime of his career on a non-contender. Seems like the perfect recipe for a sub-.500 season to me even before factoring into the equation they play in the Western Conference.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :thumbup:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
I wonder if they are just reacting to the rumors or if they have any inside information.Phil Jackson did say yesterday a trade at this time was extremely unlikely, and Paxson is known for being patient as well.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :shrug:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
I wonder if they are just reacting to the rumors or if they have any inside information.Phil Jackson did say yesterday a trade at this time was extremely unlikely, and Paxson is known for being patient as well.
I'm sure it's based purely off of speculation, but nevertheless, I thought it was interesting.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :shrug:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
I wonder if they are just reacting to the rumors or if they have any inside information.Phil Jackson did say yesterday a trade at this time was extremely unlikely, and Paxson is known for being patient as well.
I always assume all the books have some inside information not available to the common fan, even if the inside information is second hand through another book.If it were a small time book or if it were at a different time of year I wouldn't put much into it, but doesn't it seem Bodog is one of the bigger online sites and this is the busiest time of year for prop bets? There's a lot of $ on the line for a big site like that I'd assume when you are talking about two NBA teams as popular as the Bulls and lakers.
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :thumbdown:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
I wonder if they are just reacting to the rumors or if they have any inside information.Phil Jackson did say yesterday a trade at this time was extremely unlikely, and Paxson is known for being patient as well.
I always assume all the books have some inside information not available to the common fan, even if the inside information is second hand through another book.If it were a small time book or if it were at a different time of year I wouldn't put much into it, but doesn't it seem Bodog is one of the bigger online sites and this is the busiest time of year for prop bets? There's a lot of $ on the line for a big site like that I'd assume when you are talking about two NBA teams as popular as the Bulls and lakers.
This whole argument seems backwards to me. Don't sports books take a bet off the board because they're afraid that potential bettors have information that the book doesn't, and therefore they would get exploited? If the sports book actually knew what the trade was going to be, wouldn't it just adjust the lines to reflect the new rosters?
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Bulls and Lakers season win totals off the board at Bodog. :thumbdown:

Wow, that is interesting. Thanks for the update Greeny. For them to take those two popular teams off the board on a weekend before the start of the regular season you'd think something must be imminent.
I wonder if they are just reacting to the rumors or if they have any inside information.Phil Jackson did say yesterday a trade at this time was extremely unlikely, and Paxson is known for being patient as well.
I always assume all the books have some inside information not available to the common fan, even if the inside information is second hand through another book.If it were a small time book or if it were at a different time of year I wouldn't put much into it, but doesn't it seem Bodog is one of the bigger online sites and this is the busiest time of year for prop bets? There's a lot of $ on the line for a big site like that I'd assume when you are talking about two NBA teams as popular as the Bulls and lakers.
This whole argument seems backwards to me. Don't sports books take a bet off the board because they're afraid that potential bettors have information that the book doesn't, and therefore they would get exploited? If the sports book actually knew what the trade was going to be, wouldn't it just adjust the lines to reflect the new rosters?
I'm not saying they know what the trade would be, just that they feel(know?) that a trade is so imminent that they pull the line until after the trade and put up a new line when the trade becomes official.
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As a Lakers fan, I'm ready to see both Kobe and Odom go. I think the Lakers know that what they get for Kobe is the key to this organization and more important that what happens this year. They are willing to wait to get what they want for Kobe. When Chicago can't win again with their current team, the pressure will mount to get Kobe, a guy who wants to be there and is the closest thing to Jordan in the league. That's when the Lakers will get the upper hand. The Lakers shouldn't make a deal that doesn't include either Deng or Hinrich. I would certainly do either of those two with Gordon and Thomas. Taking Noah instead of Thomas could be a doable compromise. As for Odom, I just don't see what the Lakers can get to make it worthwhile.

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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems. I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :confused:
If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
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