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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems. I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :lmao:
If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
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As a Lakers fan, I'm ready to see both Kobe and Odom go. I think the Lakers know that what they get for Kobe is the key to this organization and more important that what happens this year. They are willing to wait to get what they want for Kobe. When Chicago can't win again with their current team, the pressure will mount to get Kobe, a guy who wants to be there and is the closest thing to Jordan in the league. That's when the Lakers will get the upper hand. The Lakers shouldn't make a deal that doesn't include either Deng or Hinrich. I would certainly do either of those two with Gordon and Thomas. Taking Noah instead of Thomas could be a doable compromise. As for Odom, I just don't see what the Lakers can get to make it worthwhile.

Kobe couldn't hold Jordan's jock. He can score and that's just about it. Anyone who repeatedly dribbles the ball for 20 seconds/possession will not lead you to a championship.
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As a Lakers fan, I'm ready to see both Kobe and Odom go. I think the Lakers know that what they get for Kobe is the key to this organization and more important that what happens this year. They are willing to wait to get what they want for Kobe. When Chicago can't win again with their current team, the pressure will mount to get Kobe, a guy who wants to be there and is the closest thing to Jordan in the league. That's when the Lakers will get the upper hand. The Lakers shouldn't make a deal that doesn't include either Deng or Hinrich. I would certainly do either of those two with Gordon and Thomas. Taking Noah instead of Thomas could be a doable compromise. As for Odom, I just don't see what the Lakers can get to make it worthwhile.

Kobe couldn't hold Jordan's jock. He can score and that's just about it. Anyone who repeatedly dribbles the ball for 20 seconds/possession will not lead you to a championship.
Apparently you don't watch much basketball.
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :thumbup:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :goodposting:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :lmao:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

I don't know why you are arguing with me, I'm not a GM. I didn't take part in the poll. Kobe Bryant got at least as many votes as Tim Duncan by league general managers. Anybody selecting either is obviously more interested in winning now then building some franchise long term. I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :boxing::rant::lmao: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :shrug:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

I don't know why you are arguing with me, I'm not a GM. I didn't take part in the poll. Kobe Bryant got at least as many votes as Tim Duncan by league general managers. Anybody selecting either is obviously more interested in winning now then building some franchise long term. I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :hophead::hophead::hophead: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.
"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".

There is your one vote for Kobe...

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"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".There is your one vote for Kobe...

I was thinking the same thing but decided against posting it.If bryant being the sliver "others receiving votes" makes him feel better then let him cling to it. I don't think laker fans have much else to cling to at this point.
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"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".There is your one vote for Kobe...

I was thinking the same thing but decided against posting it.If bryant being the sliver "others receiving votes" makes him feel better then let him cling to it. I don't think laker fans have much else to cling to at this point.
They'll have a 7 or 8th place finish and a first round exit to cling to every year they keep Kobe.
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As has been previously mentioned, Deng will not be included in any Kobe Bryant deal. Pax knows he is bargaining from a position of strength and does not need to make a deal. He thinks Deng can be a perennial All Star.

Hinrich and Deng are the only two "untouchables" in this trade discussion.

I think Skiles is annoyed with Tyrus because he doesn't bring it every game and Thomas thinks Skiles is a pain in the butt, so Thomas could definitely be included in these trade discussions.

It's almost a given that nothing can happen anyway until Nocioni is eligible to be traded (Dec. 15th), due to salaries having to match, unless Big Ben is somehow worked into the deal.

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As a Lakers fan, I'm ready to see both Kobe and Odom go. I think the Lakers know that what they get for Kobe is the key to this organization and more important that what happens this year. They are willing to wait to get what they want for Kobe. When Chicago can't win again with their current team, the pressure will mount to get Kobe, a guy who wants to be there and is the closest thing to Jordan in the league. That's when the Lakers will get the upper hand. The Lakers shouldn't make a deal that doesn't include either Deng or Hinrich. I would certainly do either of those two with Gordon and Thomas. Taking Noah instead of Thomas could be a doable compromise. As for Odom, I just don't see what the Lakers can get to make it worthwhile.

Kobe couldn't hold Jordan's jock. He can score and that's just about it. Anyone who repeatedly dribbles the ball for 20 seconds/possession will not lead you to a championship.
Apparently you don't watch much basketball.
:goodposting:
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As a Lakers fan, I'm ready to see both Kobe and Odom go. I think the Lakers know that what they get for Kobe is the key to this organization and more important that what happens this year. They are willing to wait to get what they want for Kobe. When Chicago can't win again with their current team, the pressure will mount to get Kobe, a guy who wants to be there and is the closest thing to Jordan in the league. That's when the Lakers will get the upper hand. The Lakers shouldn't make a deal that doesn't include either Deng or Hinrich. I would certainly do either of those two with Gordon and Thomas. Taking Noah instead of Thomas could be a doable compromise. As for Odom, I just don't see what the Lakers can get to make it worthwhile.

Kobe couldn't hold Jordan's jock. He can score and that's just about it. Anyone who repeatedly dribbles the ball for 20 seconds/possession will not lead you to a championship.
Apparently you don't watch much basketball.
:bag:
"the closest thing to Jordan in the league" <> Jordan, but is still a true statement.
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :shrug:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

I don't know why you are arguing with me, I'm not a GM. I didn't take part in the poll. Kobe Bryant got at least as many votes as Tim Duncan by league general managers. Anybody selecting either is obviously more interested in winning now then building some franchise long term. I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :hophead::hophead::hophead: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.
I am not arguing with you :banned:

I simply pointed out that the poll does not apply to winning now, but to building a franchise. Two different things. :shrug:

But if you want to argue I'm always game for that too. Of course if we go that route I prefer you actually read my posts.

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Can't imagine Deng not being involved.

Gordon is nothing special. He's a slightly better version of a Cuttino Mobley. To keep Gordon you are talking 10+ mill/year. He's exactly the type of player you don't want to end up giving a large deal too. That's why the Bulls have been shopping him for a while now.

Gordon, Thomas and Nocccioni? No way. Lakers aren't going to swallow another below market value trade like they did with Shaq. Even with Kobe's image in the toilet he is still a draw in LA.

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"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".

There is your one vote for Kobe...

I was thinking the same thing but decided against posting it.

If bryant being the sliver "others receiving votes" makes him feel better then let him cling to it. I don't think laker fans have much else to cling to at this point.

They'll have a 7 or 8th place finish and a first round exit to cling to every year they keep Kobe.

I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :goodposting::thumbup::eek: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.

:yes::yes::eek::D
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Kobe is generally regarded as the best player in the game.

Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :shrug:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

I don't know why you are arguing with me, I'm not a GM. I didn't take part in the poll. Kobe Bryant got at least as many votes as Tim Duncan by league general managers. Anybody selecting either is obviously more interested in winning now then building some franchise long term. I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :hophead::hophead::hophead: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.
I am not arguing with you :loco:

I simply pointed out that the poll does not apply to winning now, but to building a franchise. Two different things. :shrug:

But if you want to argue I'm always game for that too. Of course if we go that route I prefer you actually read my posts.

Anybody selecting Kobe Bryant is looking to win now. Anybody selecting Tim Duncan is looking to win now. Anybody selecting Kobe Bryant selected him over Tim Duncan.
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I would love for the Lakers to get Arenas and my boy Nick Young, two L.A. locals, for Kobe. That would be a dream scenario certainly for Nick, and probably for Arenas as well. But I don't see Kobe accepting that. I don't see the Lakers taking any deal with the Bulls that does not include Deng or Hinrich. The Lakers will be willing to hold out until one of them is involved and wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:thumbup:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:lmao:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
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Among people with enough power to make NBA personnel moves, Tim Duncan is generally regarded as the best player in the game. This has certainly been the case since 2005, and possibly as early as 2003. You don't hear as much public praise of Duncan among NBA types because they know he's not going anywhere, so it doesn't help to campaign for him.
I'm sure that there are NBA GMs who would prefer Duncan to Kobe, especially with all of Kobe's current problems.

I think there are just as many GMs who feel Kobe is the best player. :shrug:

If every NBA player was available to be drafted and we are only drafting for this season I'd be surprised if even one GM took Kobe #1 over Duncan.
I'd be surprised if any GM took Kobe #1 under any circumstance. If you want to win now Duncan and it's not even close. If you want to sell tickets and win for the next decade LaBron and it's not even close. Bryant isn't even in the discussion. And that's just on basketball skill..... ignoring all the off-court baggage.
If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%

Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan, San Antonio, Dwight Howard, Orlando

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html

Building a franchise and winning today are 2 very different things.

No way you could pick anyone over Duncan if your goal is to win today. If you are talking about 2-3 or more years down the road, absolutely LeBron & company... if you want to win this year, Duncan has no competition.

I don't know why you are arguing with me, I'm not a GM. I didn't take part in the poll. Kobe Bryant got at least as many votes as Tim Duncan by league general managers. Anybody selecting either is obviously more interested in winning now then building some franchise long term. I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :hophead::hophead::hophead: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.
I am not arguing with you :confused:

I simply pointed out that the poll does not apply to winning now, but to building a franchise. Two different things. :shrug:

But if you want to argue I'm always game for that too. Of course if we go that route I prefer you actually read my posts.

Anybody selecting Kobe Bryant is looking to win now. Anybody selecting Tim Duncan is looking to win now. Anybody selecting Kobe Bryant selected him over Tim Duncan.
Are you arguing with yourself now? :confused:

Interesting.

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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:goodposting:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
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"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".

There is your one vote for Kobe...

I was thinking the same thing but decided against posting it.

If bryant being the sliver "others receiving votes" makes him feel better then let him cling to it. I don't think laker fans have much else to cling to at this point.

They'll have a 7 or 8th place finish and a first round exit to cling to every year they keep Kobe.

I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :lmao::lmao::lmao: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.

:yes::yes::hophead: :hophead:
I had my $ on the Spurs last season and MIA the season before that(when everyone said they didn't stand a chance against DAL). Seems like they've done ok to me.
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:lmao:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
Even in that scenario CHI has young appreciating assets, bryant is an older depreciating asset. CHI will be a playoff team in the eastern conference even if they "start slow". I can't see any scenario in the east where CHI finishes below #4 as the team stands right now. On the other side of the coin the lakers finished tied for #7 last season and were 2 games away from missing the playoffs entirely. Most teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are not very good.
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:)What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
Even in that scenario CHI has young appreciating assets, bryant is an older depreciating asset. CHI will be a playoff team in the eastern conference even if they "start slow". I can't see any scenario in the east where CHI finishes below #4 as the team stands right now. On the other side of the coin the lakers finished tied for #7 last season and were 2 games away from missing the playoffs entirely. Most teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are not very good.
Detroit, Celts, Raptors, Magic, Heat, Wizards. I'm not ready to hand the Bulls anything yet. I'm a huge Bulls fan, but they've got to find some offense on the front line. I just don't believe they're easily better than the latter 4 teams I listed.
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:thumbup:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
Even in that scenario CHI has young appreciating assets, bryant is an older depreciating asset. CHI will be a playoff team in the eastern conference even if they "start slow". I can't see any scenario in the east where CHI finishes below #4 as the team stands right now. On the other side of the coin the lakers finished tied for #7 last season and were 2 games away from missing the playoffs entirely. Most teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are not very good.
Unlike the last few years, the expectation in Chicago is for the Bulls to make it to the Finals. If they don't appear to be one of the top few teams in the East after the first month or two of the season, panic might set in.
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:thumbup:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
Even in that scenario CHI has young appreciating assets, bryant is an older depreciating asset. CHI will be a playoff team in the eastern conference even if they "start slow". I can't see any scenario in the east where CHI finishes below #4 as the team stands right now. On the other side of the coin the lakers finished tied for #7 last season and were 2 games away from missing the playoffs entirely. Most teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are not very good.
Detroit, Celts, Raptors, Magic, Heat, Wizards. I'm not ready to hand the Bulls anything yet. I'm a huge Bulls fan, but they've got to find some offense on the front line. I just don't believe they're easily better than the latter 4 teams I listed.
The four latter teams you listed are missing a whole lot more than just some offense on the front line. WAS needs an entire front line. MIA needs a fountain of youth. ORL needs.... well, everything but Howard/Jameer. And TOR needs everything but Bosh(I'm not completely sold on TJ Ford just yet).
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Unlike the last few years, the expectation in Chicago is for the Bulls to make it to the Finals. If they don't appear to be one of the top few teams in the East after the first month or two of the season, panic might set in.

That's the part I don't see. There are just so many bad teams in the East that CHI can't get off to THAT BAD of a start and that nucleus is just so young there's no reason for anyone in CHI to panic. Teams like BOS/MIA/DET could be lottery teams in a year or so which is why there's a lot of pressure on them to win now.... there's no pressure on CHI to win now.
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Unlike the last few years, the expectation in Chicago is for the Bulls to make it to the Finals. If they don't appear to be one of the top few teams in the East after the first month or two of the season, panic might set in.

That's the part I don't see. There are just so many bad teams in the East that CHI can't get off to THAT BAD of a start and that nucleus is just so young there's no reason for anyone in CHI to panic. Teams like BOS/MIA/DET could be lottery teams in a year or so which is why there's a lot of pressure on them to win now.... there's no pressure on CHI to win now.
They have gotten off to a slow start every year since Jordan retired.There is already talk about how the Bulls cannot win another championship without a superstar or, at least, a low-post scoring threat. The pressure is real. And talents like Kobe certainly aren't always available.
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wait long enough for the Bulls to fail this year, putting pressure on the organization to make a move for Kobe, if need be.

:ptts:What makes you think this is going to happen?
Annual Circus trip?(I realize that this year's trip is less difficult than in the past but poor starts are certainly not unprecedented.)
Ok, I guess define "fail".Bulls making it to the second round/ECF is not a failure in many eyes.Deng and Hinrich aren't going anywhere.
Probably true. But if the Bulls get off to a slow start again, there will be rumblings. Reinsdorf may decide he wants Kobe like he decided he wanted Ben Wallace. Paxson would be forced to increase his offer. I don't think this scenario is likely but it's possible.
Even in that scenario CHI has young appreciating assets, bryant is an older depreciating asset. CHI will be a playoff team in the eastern conference even if they "start slow". I can't see any scenario in the east where CHI finishes below #4 as the team stands right now. On the other side of the coin the lakers finished tied for #7 last season and were 2 games away from missing the playoffs entirely. Most teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are not very good.
Detroit, Celts, Raptors, Magic, Heat, Wizards. I'm not ready to hand the Bulls anything yet. I'm a huge Bulls fan, but they've got to find some offense on the front line. I just don't believe they're easily better than the latter 4 teams I listed.
The four latter teams you listed are missing a whole lot more than just some offense on the front line. WAS needs an entire front line. MIA needs a fountain of youth. ORL needs.... well, everything but Howard/Jameer. And TOR needs everything but Bosh(I'm not completely sold on TJ Ford just yet).
Jamison? Far better than anything the Bulls have down low. With a healthy trio, they'll contend to be in the top 4. (pre-Arenas/Butler injuries last year, they were in the top 4 ahead of the Bulls)Orlando: I think you forgot Rashard Lewis there. Should be fun to watch the high- low with Howard/Lewis. Great pick up by the Magic, getting a marquee player in Lewis that doesn't need the ball in his hands every moment to be effective. Howard still gets to remain the center of attention on that offense.Toronto: Everything but Bosh? Huh? Utah East again this year I guess.If Wade's healthy, which he obviously wasn't last year in the playoffs, I'm not ready to proclaim anyone ahead of them (let alone the Bulls).I'm not ready to put the Bulls ahead of any of them right now. They lack the #1 scoring option, guy you can go to in the clutch, that the others have. Maybe Deng develops into that. I don't believe Gordon is a franchise player now or ever will be.
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"With the 1st overall pick, Isiah Thomas selects Kobe Bryant".

There is your one vote for Kobe...

I was thinking the same thing but decided against posting it.

If bryant being the sliver "others receiving votes" makes him feel better then let him cling to it. I don't think laker fans have much else to cling to at this point.

They'll have a 7 or 8th place finish and a first round exit to cling to every year they keep Kobe.

I just thought it was funny all of the usual posters who are more interested in the Lakers demise then following their own teams that have never won anything were :hophead::hophead::hophead: that Kobe would never be picked by a single general manger were once again proven wrong.

:yes::yes::hophead: :hophead:
I had my $ on the Spurs last season and MIA the season before that(when everyone said they didn't stand a chance against DAL). Seems like they've done ok to me.
I would put money on the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year. That doesn't make me a Patriots fan. Nor does it inspire me to troll Titans or Jaguars fans.
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Unlike the last few years, the expectation in Chicago is for the Bulls to make it to the Finals. If they don't appear to be one of the top few teams in the East after the first month or two of the season, panic might set in.

That's the part I don't see. There are just so many bad teams in the East that CHI can't get off to THAT BAD of a start and that nucleus is just so young there's no reason for anyone in CHI to panic. Teams like BOS/MIA/DET could be lottery teams in a year or so which is why there's a lot of pressure on them to win now.... there's no pressure on CHI to win now.
Couldn't disagree more. We signed Wallace....to win now. Deng/Gordon are nearing contract time (same draft class, decision is nearing to sign one of them. Both will not be in the organization after their first contracts. You can count on that.Boston in the lottery a year from now? Are Garnett/Allen/Pierce 40? I can't see Detroit being a lottery team any time soon. Their bench could contend for the eighth spot in the East.
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Orlando: I think you forgot Rashard Lewis there.

You're right. I did.As for the rest;If I was CHI I wouldn't trade my front-line for WAS. Not even close.Noticed you had trouble coming up with much else to like about TOR besides Bosh too. They are a nice story, don't get me wrong but they are a lot further away from contending than CHI.I don't think Wade's health is even the issue in MIA. It's the entire supporting cast that won that championship.Las Vegas agrees with me. CHI/CLE/DET/BOS in a three way tie for the favorites to win the east. The only other team even on their radar to win the title is MIA but they are listed below the big 4 out of the east.If you really do think ORL has as good a shot as CHI to win the title you'll win more than twice as much wagering on them.WAS wins you 9x the $.... they must not like WAS's chances with that front line either.
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Couldn't disagree more. We signed Wallace....to win now. Deng/Gordon are nearing contract time (same draft class, decision is nearing to sign one of them. Both will not be in the organization after their first contracts. You can count on that.

Wallace isn't part of the nucleus in CHI imo. He's just an overpaid role player on that team.There won't be any decision between signing Deng/Gordong..... it's obvious they'd sign Deng and trade Gordon. There have been rumors of Gordon on the trading block since they day after they got eliminated last season. Gordon also isn't a part of their nucleus imo. Streaky SG's too small to play defense are too easy to replace.Hinrich/Deng/Thomas/Noah is what I'd call the nucleus in CHI.
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I would put money on the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year.

Nah, I put it on them to win the AFC. Last two seasons I had $ on SEA and CHI to win it all and it killed me to be one game away.If it makes you feel any better I also put a small wager on DEN to win the AFC this season after they got Dre Blye and that $ looks like it's been flushed down the toilet. I figured the AFC would come down to NE/DEN. Just checked and DEN was +800 at the time so I couldn't pass it up despite the fact I hate shanny.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.

Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So how much do we put on HOU to win tonight if there's no Bryant?A lot of strange press conferences going on in la if there isn't a deal about to go down.....Jackson did say he hoped a resolution would be reached "sooner than later.""The ultimate thing is it's important to move forward as soon as possible,""We've been without him since the start of training camp, so we have a way to play," Jackson said. "Last year we didn't have Kobe and we found a way to win our first two games without him.".... uh, it's not like you have to read between the lines of statements like this. And this was the guy that was supposed to be backing him staying in la all this time.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

That would be great for Chicago.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

I'm a little surprised they give up both Thomas AND Noah, I would have thought it would be one or the other with Wallace to make the salary cap work out.
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"We've been without him since the start of training camp, so we have a way to play," Jackson said. "Last year we didn't have Kobe and we found a way to win our first two games without him."

FYI, this specific part was in reference to Lamar Odom.
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