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"We've been without him since the start of training camp, so we have a way to play," Jackson said. "Last year we didn't have Kobe and we found a way to win our first two games without him."

FYI, this specific part was in reference to Lamar Odom.
Lamar Odom - now there is a huge let down. Such promise, such disappointment.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
Correct, salaries aren't close. Even if you throw in filler like Khryapa, Griffin, Duhon, etc. it still doesn't work.It's looking like there is a real possibility Gordon and the Bulls won't come to an agreement on an extension.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
Hi EvilJust reporting what I heard on the radio. He didn't go into specifics, but said he was up late taking and making phone calls and that is what he heard. I'm sure the Lakers want to unload him as soon as possible and would rather start the season without him.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
Hi EvilJust reporting what I heard on the radio. He didn't go into specifics, but said he was up late taking and making phone calls and that is what he heard. I'm sure the Lakers want to unload him as soon as possible and would rather start the season without him.
Understood, I just didn't want people to expect this to go down today as reported because, unless I'm missing something, it's impossible for that to happen.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

Green94 - Any idea how strong this rumor is ?I don't know about you, but I'm not very optimistic that something will happen when the Score reports it as I don't have a lot of respect for their reporters.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:hophead: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :thumbup: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:wub: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :thumbup: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.
Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.Gordon becomes expendable if Bryant comes to Chicago because they play a similar role - shooter/scorer. Deng is only 21, is a tireless worker, and is on the brink of becoming an all-star at that ripe age. I'd be in no hurry to trade him either.Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.
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Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.

The Cavs made the finals with Lebron James and 4 guys off the street. I think that Kobe, Ben Wallace, Nocioni, and Hinrich could do just fine in the East.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:no: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :thumbup: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.
I'm guessing it has to do with who Skiles thinks are "his" guys. From what I can gather neither Gordon nor Thomas are necessarily thought of as "Skiles" players while Hinrich and Deng are. I am a little confused though since it pretty much looks like Hinrich has to be included in any deal for salary purposes.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:no: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :thumbup: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.
Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.Gordon becomes expendable if Bryant comes to Chicago because they play a similar role - shooter/scorer. Deng is only 21, is a tireless worker, and is on the brink of becoming an all-star at that ripe age. I'd be in no hurry to trade him either.Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.
I agree, but if it comes down to it I don't think you're gutting your team by including Kirk Hinrich in the deal, if that's what it takes.I still don't think anything is going to happen here. Call me a pessimist, but these rumors have been floating for too long. Waiting for the "it all fell apart" shtick anytime now.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:thumbup: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Am I mistaken in my understanding that there is only a "soft" cap in the NBA - ie. you can spend whatever, but pay the luxury tax on the overage?If the two teams really wanted to get this done - would salaries stop them?Or is there some sort of rule that trades have to be close on salary?
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:thumbup: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Am I mistaken in my understanding that there is only a "soft" cap in the NBA - ie. you can spend whatever, but pay the luxury tax on the overage?If the two teams really wanted to get this done - would salaries stop them?Or is there some sort of rule that trades have to be close on salary?
Total salaries have to be within 90% (I think that's the figure) of each other unless one team is under the cap.
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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :thumbup: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.
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Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.

The Cavs made the finals with Lebron James and 4 guys off the street. I think that Kobe, Ben Wallace, Nocioni, and Hinrich could do just fine in the East.
Probably. But the Bulls can do just fine in the East now (and for the next 10 years) without trading away 4 promising players all 24 or younger. If they make this trade and then Kobe blows his knee out, they're bottom-dwellers. If they hold onto Deng and Kobe goes down, at least they can still be competitive. No way I'd trade Deng, Thomas, Noah, and Gordon. I know Bryant is an all-time great, but that's 4 top-7 picks all under the age of 25.Send Gordon, Wallace, Thomas and a future #1.
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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :yes: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.

If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.

No, Deng isn't in that category, but if they can keep all these guys in the fold, 10 years from now, Hinrich will be 36, Deng 31, Gordon 34, Thomas 32, Noah 31, etc... not outside the realm of possibility that all 5 of those guys could still be playing very well. Maybe 8-10 years would have been more accurate, but you get the point.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:yes: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Am I mistaken in my understanding that there is only a "soft" cap in the NBA - ie. you can spend whatever, but pay the luxury tax on the overage?If the two teams really wanted to get this done - would salaries stop them?Or is there some sort of rule that trades have to be close on salary?
Total salaries have to be within 90% (I think that's the figure) of each other unless one team is under the cap.
Within 125%.
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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :goodposting: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.

If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.

No, Deng isn't in that category, but if they can keep all these guys in the fold, 10 years from now, Hinrich will be 36, Deng 31, Gordon 34, Thomas 32, Noah 31, etc... not outside the realm of possibility that all 5 of those guys could still be playing very well. Maybe 8-10 years would have been more accurate, but you get the point.
If all of those guys have had productive careers and are still playing well, they will be far too expensive to all still be in CHI. They don't have nearly that kind of window... you have to go for the title when you have the chance.
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:lmao: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :whoosh: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.
Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.Gordon becomes expendable if Bryant comes to Chicago because they play a similar role - shooter/scorer. Deng is only 21, is a tireless worker, and is on the brink of becoming an all-star at that ripe age. I'd be in no hurry to trade him either.Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.
I agree, but if it comes down to it I don't think you're gutting your team by including Kirk Hinrich in the deal, if that's what it takes.I still don't think anything is going to happen here. Call me a pessimist, but these rumors have been floating for too long. Waiting for the "it all fell apart" shtick anytime now.
I tend to agree with you on the "it all fell apart" front. This reeks of the Red Sox "trying" to trade Manny a few years ago. "Sorry. We really tried, but in the end we just couldn't get it done." But as far as making the salaries work, one of the local guys was saying yesterday that he had heard "from a reliable NBA source" that the Bulls could pull a sign and trade with PJ Brown for the difference in money. That for the money teams were offering him, Brown was content to not play this year. But for the money it would take to make this trade work, a one-year deal for whatever it is - $8 million - would get Brown to play. It would also give the Lakers that as an expiring contract. :goodposting:
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:thumbdown: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Am I mistaken in my understanding that there is only a "soft" cap in the NBA - ie. you can spend whatever, but pay the luxury tax on the overage?If the two teams really wanted to get this done - would salaries stop them?Or is there some sort of rule that trades have to be close on salary?
Total salaries have to be within 90% (I think that's the figure) of each other unless one team is under the cap.
Would it work if they add in Victory Krypta (sp??) who makes I believe in the mid 3's, a 1st round draft pick ?
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Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant....

:mellow: Trade doesn't work work financially.
Or logically.
That too.

What's this shtick about Chicago not giving up Deng or Hinrich? :thumbdown: It's KOBE BRYANT. I don't want to hear about your "long-term" guys, he has 6-7 years left, minimum.

Right, but if they gut the team to get Bryant, what do they become? The Lakers - Bryant and not much else. Sure, they'd make the playoffs in the East, but I doubt they'd be any better than they are now.

Gordon becomes expendable if Bryant comes to Chicago because they play a similar role - shooter/scorer. Deng is only 21, is a tireless worker, and is on the brink of becoming an all-star at that ripe age. I'd be in no hurry to trade him either.

Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

I agree, but if it comes down to it I don't think you're gutting your team by including Kirk Hinrich in the deal, if that's what it takes.

I still don't think anything is going to happen here. Call me a pessimist, but these rumors have been floating for too long. Waiting for the "it all fell apart" shtick anytime now.

Agreed, provided he was in lieu of, rather than in addition to, either Gordon, Thomas, or Noah.
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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :blackdot: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.

If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.

No, Deng isn't in that category, but if they can keep all these guys in the fold, 10 years from now, Hinrich will be 36, Deng 31, Gordon 34, Thomas 32, Noah 31, etc... not outside the realm of possibility that all 5 of those guys could still be playing very well. Maybe 8-10 years would have been more accurate, but you get the point.
If all of those guys have had productive careers and are still playing well, they will be far too expensive to all still be in CHI. They don't have nearly that kind of window... you have to go for the title when you have the chance.
That's not necessarily the case at all. A couple of them will be role players, they can't all get 20/10 a game. If the Celtics can afford Garnet,, Allen, and Pierce, why wouldn't the Bulls be able to afford those 5?
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

Green94 - Any idea how strong this rumor is ?I don't know about you, but I'm not very optimistic that something will happen when the Score reports it as I don't have a lot of respect for their reporters.
Schuster was the one reporting and he is always on the Bulls beat. That being said, who knows really - but he sounded optimistic that something would happen within the next few days, maybe even today.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So the Lakers are going to deal the best player in the world in his prime for an undersized 2 guard and two bench players? "No way Deng or Hinrich are moved", for KOBE BRYANT?Wow. I like Deng, but he's suddenly become the most overrated player in the NBA. He's Pokey Reese all over again.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So the Lakers are going to deal the best player in the world in his prime for an undersized 2 guard and two bench players? "No way Deng or Hinrich are moved", for KOBE BRYANT?Wow. I like Deng, but he's suddenly become the most overrated player in the NBA. He's Pokey Reese all over again.
You give up Hinrich or Deng and what does that leave you with? The Chicago Lakers.... if a deal gets done I highly doubt either of these two move.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So the Lakers are going to deal the best player in the world in his prime for an undersized 2 guard and two bench players? "No way Deng or Hinrich are moved", for KOBE BRYANT?Wow. I like Deng, but he's suddenly become the most overrated player in the NBA. He's Pokey Reese all over again.
You give up Hinrich or Deng and what does that leave you with? The Chicago Lakers.... if a deal gets done I highly doubt either of these two move.
I would gladly move one, but not both. If the Lakers wanted Hinrich, Gordon and either Thomas or Noah, I'd jump on it. I doubt I'd trade Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng, though. That leaves you with Kobe, an aging Wallace and Thomas and Noah.
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So the Lakers are going to deal the best player in the world in his prime
How did Tim Duncan get involved in this again?
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

So the Lakers are going to deal the best player in the world in his prime for an undersized 2 guard and two bench players? "No way Deng or Hinrich are moved", for KOBE BRYANT?Wow. I like Deng, but he's suddenly become the most overrated player in the NBA. He's Pokey Reese all over again.
You are forgetting that Chicago does not need to make this deal. They have all the power here. The Lakers have a superstar that is crying and wants out. The Bulls have a great young team. The Lakers will not get a good deal here.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :mellow: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.

If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.

No, Deng isn't in that category, but if they can keep all these guys in the fold, 10 years from now, Hinrich will be 36, Deng 31, Gordon 34, Thomas 32, Noah 31, etc... not outside the realm of possibility that all 5 of those guys could still be playing very well. Maybe 8-10 years would have been more accurate, but you get the point.
If all of those guys have had productive careers and are still playing well, they will be far too expensive to all still be in CHI. They don't have nearly that kind of window... you have to go for the title when you have the chance.
That's not necessarily the case at all. A couple of them will be role players, they can't all get 20/10 a game. If the Celtics can afford Garnet,, Allen, and Pierce, why wouldn't the Bulls be able to afford those 5?
36 yr old Heinrich and 31 yr old Deng are going to be good enough to carry a team full of highly paid role players to contention? Like someone said earlier, Gordon could end up with a contract for 10 mil a year, and if Thomas and Noah pan out, someone will pay at least that for big men with upside. Those guys won't be cheap 8 years from now (if they are even worth keeping at all, which is a big question mark). Even best case scenario, those 5 won't be worth 70+ million a year of your cap.
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Bottom line is Chicago's nucleus is very young. They have the chance to be competitive for the next 10-12 years if they keep this core together. They don't NEED Bryant. The Lakers need to move him more than the Bulls need to obtain him. The Lakers don't want to trade him in the Western Conference, and the Bulls are about the only team in the East with the pieces to make a deal. Bulls hold all the cards here.

10-12 yrs? :thumbup: Nobody has that kind of window unless you get lucky and draft one of the best players of all time (see: San Antonio). Deng isn't in that category.

If they can get Bryant and still keep enough pieces to make a legit title run in the next 1-2 yrs, they should do it. If they can get Kobe for Deng, Gordon and some misc. pieces, they should jump at the opportunity.

No, Deng isn't in that category, but if they can keep all these guys in the fold, 10 years from now, Hinrich will be 36, Deng 31, Gordon 34, Thomas 32, Noah 31, etc... not outside the realm of possibility that all 5 of those guys could still be playing very well. Maybe 8-10 years would have been more accurate, but you get the point.
If all of those guys have had productive careers and are still playing well, they will be far too expensive to all still be in CHI. They don't have nearly that kind of window... you have to go for the title when you have the chance.
That's not necessarily the case at all. A couple of them will be role players, they can't all get 20/10 a game. If the Celtics can afford Garnet,, Allen, and Pierce, why wouldn't the Bulls be able to afford those 5?
36 yr old Heinrich and 31 yr old Deng are going to be good enough to carry a team full of highly paid role players to contention? Like someone said earlier, Gordon could end up with a contract for 10 mil a year, and if Thomas and Noah pan out, someone will pay at least that for big men with upside. Those guys won't be cheap 8 years from now (if they are even worth keeping at all, which is a big question mark). Even best case scenario, those 5 won't be worth 70+ million a year of your cap.
By the time Deng is 31, he could potentially be an 8-or-9 time all-star. Hinrich is a Stockton-like point that's a good anchor, and if Thomas develops into a post presence like his talent dictates he should, they could easily still be competitive the middle of next decade built around those guys.

This is moot anyway, though. The point you're making is that the Bulls' window is now, I don't think they're anywhere near their peak yet. Their window still has a number of years left open... soeone mentioned earlier that Kobe still has 6 good years left before he starts to decline. If they don't trade for him and sign Gordon and Deng to long-term extensions like they did Hinrich, you don't think a 32-year old Hinrich, 27-year old Deng and 30-year old Gordon present a pretty good nucleus to build around? Wallace's giant salary will be off the books by then and they would likely be able to re-sign either Thomas or Noah long-term, or possibly both.

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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
Hi EvilJust reporting what I heard on the radio. He didn't go into specifics, but said he was up late taking and making phone calls and that is what he heard. I'm sure the Lakers want to unload him as soon as possible and would rather start the season without him.
Was this from Mike North? if no, do you remember who was the radio guy saying this?
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Reports out of 670 the Score in Chicago are saying a deal might get done as soon as today.Thomas, Noah, and Gordon for Bryant.... Bulls might throw in a draft pick but like a few of us have been saying, no way Deng or Hinrich move. They are part of the long term plan. If the Bulls give those three guys, this is a great deal.

How could this deal get done today? The salaries aren't close, and as I understand it, if the Bulls sign Gordon to an extension, they can't trade him until mid-December. Wouldn't Chicago have to wait until Thursday to re-sign Gordon and then move him?
Hi EvilJust reporting what I heard on the radio. He didn't go into specifics, but said he was up late taking and making phone calls and that is what he heard. I'm sure the Lakers want to unload him as soon as possible and would rather start the season without him.
Was this from Mike North? if no, do you remember who was the radio guy saying this?
David Schuster who covers the Bulls beat, he was on the Mike North show this morning.
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By the time Deng is 31, he could potentially be an 8-or-9 time all-star. Hinrich is a Stockton-like point that's a good anchor, and if Thomas develops into a post presence like his talent dictates he should, they could easily still be competitive the middle of next decade built around those guys.This is moot anyway, though. The point you're making is that the Bulls' window is now, I don't think they're anywhere near their peak yet. Their window still has a number of years left open... soeone mentioned earlier that Kobe still has 6 good years left before he starts to decline. If they don't trade for him and sign Gordon and Deng to long-term extensions like they did Hinrich, you don't think a 32-year old Hinrich, 27-year old Deng and 30-year old Gordon present a pretty good nucleus to build around? Wallace's giant salary will be off the books by then and they would likely be able to re-sign either Thomas or Noah long-term, or possibly both.

I think you're making huge assumptions about the quality of talent... For example, Hinrich is decent but Stockton like? Seriously? Let's not get ahead of ourselves on Deng, either... I don't think many project him as a top 5 NBA player, certainly not an 8-9 time all star. Gordon's a 6th man gunner who doesn't bring much else to the table IMO. I think fans (and GMs) fall into the trap of thinking what they have is better than it actually is, and therefore fail to make these types of trades that could clearly catapult them to the next level. I'd trade Deng and Gordon for Kobe in a heartbeat... Hinrich, Kobe, Wallace, Thomas/Noah are far better than last year's Cavs, for example. They'd be writing themselves a ticket into the NBA finals for the next 2 years.
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Hinrich is a Stockton-like point

Yikes. Slow down.
Not saying he's anywhere near as good as Stockton, but he's a similar player - pass-first point who can knock-down the open J and is an above-average defender despite not being a great (although he is underrated) athlete. He's the type of guy who could still be playing decent ball in his mid-30s, that's what I meant.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
Seriously. Basically Gordon and Noah for Kobe?

:unsure:

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By the time Deng is 31, he could potentially be an 8-or-9 time all-star. Hinrich is a Stockton-like point that's a good anchor, and if Thomas develops into a post presence like his talent dictates he should, they could easily still be competitive the middle of next decade built around those guys.This is moot anyway, though. The point you're making is that the Bulls' window is now, I don't think they're anywhere near their peak yet. Their window still has a number of years left open... soeone mentioned earlier that Kobe still has 6 good years left before he starts to decline. If they don't trade for him and sign Gordon and Deng to long-term extensions like they did Hinrich, you don't think a 32-year old Hinrich, 27-year old Deng and 30-year old Gordon present a pretty good nucleus to build around? Wallace's giant salary will be off the books by then and they would likely be able to re-sign either Thomas or Noah long-term, or possibly both.

I think you're making huge assumptions about the quality of talent... For example, Hinrich is decent but Stockton like? Seriously? Let's not get ahead of ourselves on Deng, either... I don't think many project him as a top 5 NBA player, certainly not an 8-9 time all star. Gordon's a 6th man gunner who doesn't bring much else to the table IMO. I think fans (and GMs) fall into the trap of thinking what they have is better than it actually is, and therefore fail to make these types of trades that could clearly catapult them to the next level. I'd trade Deng and Gordon for Kobe in a heartbeat... Hinrich, Kobe, Wallace, Thomas/Noah are far better than last year's Cavs, for example. They'd be writing themselves a ticket into the NBA finals for the next 2 years.
I agree Gordon is overrated, but he is a scorer that can create his own shot, and many teams need a guy like that. If the Bulls got Kobe, obviously he'd be almost worthless. Again, when I said Hinrich was a Stockton-like player I meant he could have a long and successful career like Stockton did because he reminds me of Stockton in a number of ways, not that he'd ever sniff Stockton's jock in terms of overall skill and numbers. I think you're undervaluing Deng though. I've been watching him since he played HS ball in New Jersey on a team with Charlie Villaneuva, where it was widely said that if Charlie had 1/4 the work ethic Deng did, he would have been a superstar. Deng is a workout machine and a very smart player, and he's just starting to show what he can do. He averaged over 22 ppg and 9 rpg in the playoffs last year and was by far their best player in what would have been his senior year of college. I'm not insinuating that the guy is Kobe or Lebron, but I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him making All-Star teams for the next decade. He's ready to make The Leap.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
Seriously. Basically Gordon and Noah for Kobe?

:unsure:

Plus two 1st rounders and an additional $14 million in cap space this summer alone. If you like, substitute Tyrus Thomas or Nocioni (after 12/15) for Kryhapa or Griffin.

ETA : $14 million in cap space in L.A. isn't like $14 million in Salt Lake City. They could get a big-time free agent for that, which would have to be factored into the parameters of that deal. Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Jermaine O'Neal, Baron Davis... they could sign any one of those guys. If you end up with Arenas, Gordon, and Noah or Thomas plus 2 first rounders for Kobe, do you really feel that bad about the deal?

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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
Seriously. Basically Gordon and Noah for Kobe?

:(

Plus two 1st rounders and an additional $14 million in cap space this summer alone. If you like, substitute Tyrus Thomas or Nocioni (after 12/15) for Kryhapa or Griffin.
Still sucks.
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By the time Deng is 31, he could potentially be an 8-or-9 time all-star. Hinrich is a Stockton-like point that's a good anchor, and if Thomas develops into a post presence like his talent dictates he should, they could easily still be competitive the middle of next decade built around those guys.This is moot anyway, though. The point you're making is that the Bulls' window is now, I don't think they're anywhere near their peak yet. Their window still has a number of years left open... soeone mentioned earlier that Kobe still has 6 good years left before he starts to decline. If they don't trade for him and sign Gordon and Deng to long-term extensions like they did Hinrich, you don't think a 32-year old Hinrich, 27-year old Deng and 30-year old Gordon present a pretty good nucleus to build around? Wallace's giant salary will be off the books by then and they would likely be able to re-sign either Thomas or Noah long-term, or possibly both.

I think you're making huge assumptions about the quality of talent... For example, Hinrich is decent but Stockton like? Seriously? Let's not get ahead of ourselves on Deng, either... I don't think many project him as a top 5 NBA player, certainly not an 8-9 time all star. Gordon's a 6th man gunner who doesn't bring much else to the table IMO. I think fans (and GMs) fall into the trap of thinking what they have is better than it actually is, and therefore fail to make these types of trades that could clearly catapult them to the next level. I'd trade Deng and Gordon for Kobe in a heartbeat... Hinrich, Kobe, Wallace, Thomas/Noah are far better than last year's Cavs, for example. They'd be writing themselves a ticket into the NBA finals for the next 2 years.
I agree Gordon is overrated, but he is a scorer that can create his own shot, and many teams need a guy like that. If the Bulls got Kobe, obviously he'd be almost worthless. Again, when I said Hinrich was a Stockton-like player I meant he could have a long and successful career like Stockton did because he reminds me of Stockton in a number of ways, not that he'd ever sniff Stockton's jock in terms of overall skill and numbers. I think you're undervaluing Deng though. I've been watching him since he played HS ball in New Jersey on a team with Charlie Villaneuva, where it was widely said that if Charlie had 1/4 the work ethic Deng did, he would have been a superstar. Deng is a workout machine and a very smart player, and he's just starting to show what he can do. He averaged over 22 ppg and 9 rpg in the playoffs last year and was by far their best player in what would have been his senior year of college. I'm not insinuating that the guy is Kobe or Lebron, but I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him making All-Star teams for the next decade. He's ready to make The Leap.
Admittedly I haven't watched Deng play too much, but from what I've seen and his numbers, the upside is limited for a 6-9 guy who can't shoot the 3 at all and/or doesn't have great rebounding skills. Seems like a great 2nd option on a contending team to me.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
Seriously. Basically Gordon and Noah for Kobe?

:(

This is what happens when you build your team around a low character player.
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Why not Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, P.J. Brown (in a sign-and-trade) and two first-round draft picks? Chad Ford suggested this and the Lakers might bite - they get two good young players in Gordon and Noah, an expiring contract with Brown (gives them enough cap relief to sign Gordon long-term without compromising the cap space they'd have from moving Bryant) and 2 first round picks.

Why not? Because that deal sucks for the Lakers.
Seriously. Basically Gordon and Noah for Kobe?

:(

Plus two 1st rounders and an additional $14 million in cap space this summer alone. If you like, substitute Tyrus Thomas or Nocioni (after 12/15) for Kryhapa or Griffin.
Still sucks.
If you can sign Shawn Marion for that $14m, does it still suck?
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