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***Official OHIO STATE-MICHIGAN Thread***


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Series facts

Michigan leads the series all time 57-40-6.

The 2006 game was the first time that Ohio State and Michigan met ranked #1 and #2 in the country.

Only three times in history has the matchup pitted the two against each other with perfect records on the last game of the regular season. In 1970 OSU (8-0) and Michigan (9-0) met in Columbus, with the Buckeyes winning 20-9. Ohio State went on to lose to Stanford in the Rose Bowl. Then in 1973 OSU (9-0) traveled to Ann Arbor to take on Michigan (10-0), and the game ended in a 10-10 tie. Controversially, Ohio State was selected as the Big Ten's candidate to travel to the Rose Bowl, where they defeated USC. In 2006, Ohio State and Michigan met with both having 11-0 records. Ohio State won 42-39. Three other times (1902, 1906, and 1933) the two teams met each other with perfect records in early season matchups.

Since 1935, Ohio State and Michigan have decided the Big Ten Conference championship between themselves on 23 different occasions, including 2007.

Michigan's longest winning streak in the rivalry is nine games, from 1901-1909. Michigan also went without a loss in the first 15 games (13 wins and two ties). Ohio State's longest winning streak is four games, from 1934-1937 and 1960-1963.

Michigan's largest victory margin was in 1902, when it won 86-0. Ohio State's largest victory margin was in 1935, when it posted a 38-0 shutout. OSU's highest point total in a game was 50, which occurred in 1961 and 1968.

Michigan has been shut out in 11 games in the rivalry. Ohio State has been shut out 26 times. The second meeting between the schools resulted in a 0-0 tie.

Between 1933 and 1940, the losing team was shut out every year. The teams split the meetings 4-4, with a combined winning-losing score of 206-0.

The Ohio State Alma Mater “Carmen Ohio” was written on the train ride home to Columbus following the 1902 contest, which saw Ohio State losing to Michigan 86-0. The lyrics and melody (Spanish Chant) have remained largely unchanged since its conception.

Other than (often) the Big Ten Championship Trophy, there is no trophy for the Michigan-Ohio State game. However, Ohio State has a separate tradition. When the Buckeyes win the game, each team member receives a pair of "Gold Pants," a small golden charm of football pants worn by football players on necklaces. This tradition was started by former coach Francis Schmidt, who remarked in 1934 about a heavily favored Michigan team "They put their pants on one leg at a time, the same as we do!"

Participants of the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry have produced two Heisman Trophy firsts. OSU running back Archie Griffin is the only player to ever win the Heisman twice, doing so in 1974 and 1975. Michigan cornerback Charles Woodson became the first primarily defensive player to win the award in 1997.

Ohio State fans often sing a song during rivalry games to the tune of The Old Grey Mare the words of which are "We don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan...'cause we're from O-hi-o"

In honor of the 100th meeting between the schools in 2003, US Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio proposed a resolution in the House to recognize Michigan and Ohio State as the "greatest sports rivalry in history."

In 2003, a judge in Columbus, Ohio allowed Jeff Renne, an inmate charged with forgery, to stay in a local jail so that he could watch the 100th game between OSU and Michigan. Renne told the judge that he would plead guilty as long as he could stay in jail for the weekend and watch the game before he was relocated to a prison.

In 2004, Michigan and Ohio State announced a deal with SBC Communications to sponsor their football game for the next two years for $1.06 million, to be split between the universities. The game would be dubbed the "SBC Michigan-Ohio State Classic" that year and the order of the school names would be switched the next. Advertisements were to be placed on billboards in Ohio Stadium, but not on the field or on player uniforms, nor anywhere in Michigan Stadium, where there is no commercial advertising. Fans and alumni of both schools were outraged and ultimately the deal was cancelled. The game remains unsponsored.

Following the general elections in 2006, the race in Ohio's 15th congressional district was disputed between incumbent Deborah Pryce and challenger Mary Jo Kilroy. The district delayed recounting votes until after the Michigan-Ohio State game in Columbus on November 18.

In 2006, half an hour after the Ohio State-Michigan game ended, the Ohio Lottery PICK 4 evening drawing was 4-2-3-9, matching the final score of the game and paying out up to $5,000 per winner, for a total payout of $2.2 million.

In 2006, the Ohio High School Athletic Association had to change the times of many post-season high school football games because of the Ohio State-Michigan game.

In 2006, press reports indicated that the two schools had turned down several million dollars from a broadcast network to reschedule the game from the Saturday before Thanksgiving to later in the season.

The 2007 game will mark the first time since 1959 that both Ohio State and Michigan lost in their immediately preceding games; Michigan lost to Wisconsin, and Ohio State lost to Illinois.

Big House might be a little empty

Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Mark Gillispie

Cleveland Plain Dealer

Ann Arbor, Mich. -- There is an air of mystery and a quiet sense of desperation heading to this week's Big Ten championship game against Ohio State.

Will tailback Mike Hart and quarterback Chad Henne be healthy enough to play on Saturday in Michigan's "Big House"?

Will this be Lloyd Carr's swan song after 13 seasons as coach of the Wolverines?

Can Michigan's deep class of senior players avoid the embarrassment of never having beaten their archrivals?

Neither Carr nor the handful of Michigan players made available for interviews on Monday could or would answer the first two questions.

Given Ohio State's performance last Saturday in a 28-21 loss at home to Illinois, the answer to the third question could be "Yes." But the odds will be stacked against the Wolverines without the talent and experience of Hart or Henne in the lineup.

Hart missed all of last Saturday's loss at Wisconsin with an ankle sprain that caused him to sit out the Illinois and Minnesota games as well. Henne, who had missed three previous games, played briefly in Madison before a nagging shoulder injury forced him to the sidelines.

Asked if Hart or Henne would play against Ohio State, Carr said, "We'll have to see on Saturday." Neither player attended Monday's interview session.

Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis said he expects Hart and Henne to be in the lineup.

"You just want them to play because this is their last game at Michigan," Laurinaitis said. "They came back and said one of the reasons they came back is for this game, so they're going to play."

This has been a particularly strange season for Michigan, which fell from 13th to 23rd in the Associated Press and USA Today Coaches polls after the loss to Wisconsin.

The Wolverines shocked the college football world when they lost, 34-32, to Division I-AA Appalachian State in the season opener at home. They followed that with another home loss to a talented Oregon team.

It was the first time in 19 years Michigan had begun its season 0-2.

Yet like the 1988 team, the 2007 version has a chance to win the Big Ten title and play in the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day. Michigan won eight straight games before its lone Big Ten loss of the season against Wisconsin.

Senior left tackle Jake Long, considered by many to be the best offensive lineman in college football, said he still believed the Wolverines had a chance to win a Big Ten title after those opening-season losses.

"Seniors didn't want to go out that way. Nobody wanted to," Long said. "[seniors] really stepped it up in practice, made sure we brought everybody else along, and everybody was really excited to start winning again."

Long and the other Michigan players at Monday's news conference said it was important they beat Ohio State not only for themselves, but for Carr. There has been rampant speculation about Carr's future as Michigan coach, including a rumor he will resign on Monday after the Ohio State game.

"All the flak that he got at the beginning of the year and throughout the year, people don't see behind closed doors how great of a coach he is, how great of a person he is," Long said. "We just wanted to win all year for him, and this game is big."

Michigan: Next question, please ...

Carr won't say if Hart, Henne are healthy enough to play against Ohio State

Tuesday, November 13, 2007

By Shawn Mitchell

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Michigan coach Lloyd Carr did not have much to say about Mike Hart and Chad Henne yesterday.

He was nice enough to pay a compliment to the Wolverines' running back and quarterback, referring to the pair as "everything a coach could want" and praising their decision to forgo the NFL for another season at Michigan.

But he was not nice enough to oblige reporters' requests for information about their lingering injuries. Henne (right shoulder) played only two series during a 37-21 loss at Wisconsin on Saturday. Hart (right ankle) did not play.

Will they play against Ohio State?

"We'll have to see on Saturday," Carr said.

Did Henne have a setback against Wisconsin?

"I didn't say, did I?" Carr countered.

Although neither player was made available for interviews yesterday, their teammates had looser lips than Carr.

"They're looking good," offensive tackle Jake Long said. "You know, they're ready to go, and I'm sure they'll do anything they can to get back on the field and play the last game."

There is, of course, good reason for the interest in the pair's status. Although they have not experienced a victory against Ohio State, they have been dynamic since becoming starters in 2004 as true freshmen.

Despite missing three games, Hart became Michigan's all-time leading rusher (4,867 yards) this season and is third in the nation in rushing yards per game (148.5). Although no longer a favorite to win the Heisman Trophy, both he and Henne were candidates for multiple national awards.

Henne is Michigan's career leader in completions (792), passing yards (9,274) and touchdown passes (84). He has started only eight games because of injury this season but has completed 61.5 percent of his passes, 14 for touchdowns.

There is speculation that the Michigan staff limited their participation at Wisconsin to keep them fresh for Ohio State.

Because Michigan (8-3, 6-1) began its season with home losses to Appalachian State and Oregon, it has no shot at the national title. It would have been playing Ohio State (10-1, 6-1) for at least a share of the Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl berth regardless of the outcome at Wisconsin.

"We play every game to win," Michigan offensive coordinator Mike DeBord said after the game in Madison, Wis. "That's the way it's always been at Michigan. We came here to win."

That might be true, but likely not at the risk of further injury to Henne or Hart, especially considering the subpar play of backup quarterback Ryan Mallett and reserve running backs Carlos Brown and Brandon Minor against Wisconsin.

Mallett completed 11 of 36 attempts and was intercepted twice. Brown and Minor combined for 64 yards on 18 carries.

In Michigan's big picture, those numbers, as well as those on the scoreboard in Camp Randall Stadium, didn't really matter.

So why didn't Hart play on Saturday?

"I have no idea about that," safety Jamar Adams said, "but I always expect Mike Hart to play."

And Henne?

"I always expect Chad Henne to play," Adams said.

ONE LAST SHOT: But so what if Long, Henne and Hart are 0-3 against OSU?

November 13, 2007

BY MICHAEL ROSENBERG

DETROIT FREE PRESS

In my column Sunday, I wrote that Chad Henne, Mike Hart and Jake Long played an entire game together only once this season, against Appalachian State. I have since been corrected by my friend John, who watches every Michigan game eight times -- once when it happens, and the next seven nights in his sleep.

Hart missed a large chunk of the Appalachian State game with a thigh bruise. So the trio has played zero full games together this year.

With any luck, Hart and Henne will be healthy enough to play the entire game Saturday. And in many fans' minds, that game will define the trio.

As Hart said before the season:

"How can I go down as one of the best running backs in Michigan history if I haven't beaten Ohio State? You just can't do that. You have to beat Ohio State, you have to win a bowl game. The whole off-season, that's what we pushed for."

If Michigan loses, some people will view the left tackle, the quarterback and the running back through the prism of an 0-4 record against Ohio State. That is understandable. But it's also a shame, because no matter what happens Saturday, Hart, Henne and Long have distinguished themselves in 2007.

The tackle

In April's NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns selected tackle Joe Thomas of Wisconsin with the third pick. The Arizona Cardinals selected tackle Levi Brown of Penn State with the fifth pick. Yet neither Thomas nor Brown was the Big Ten's offensive lineman of the year in 2006. Jake Long was.

Long has been even better this season. He has not committed a single penalty. He simply does not give up sacks. Michigan has run a higher percentage of its rushing plays over the left side of the line than in any season in recent memory. It has worked because Long is as dominant at his position as any player in the country.

If Michigan loses Saturday, people will say his decision to come back was a waste. Jake Long is not one of those people.

"I don't feel like I need to validate my decision to come back," Long said. "That was my decision, and I felt like I (made) the right one. That's not what this game is about. This game is about this team, about this championship. It's not about me. I'm not even worried about that."

The quarterback

Coming into this season, Chad Henne was the great quarterback that nobody really knew. He was a four-year starter, but is so reserved that his teammates didn't even elect him captain. He was overshadowed for most of his career by Ohio State's Troy Smith.

In a way, Henne epitomized his program: shy with the media, clearly talented and highly successful -- but not successful enough for a lot of U-M fans. He had a reputation as an automaton who never won the big one.

This was supposed to be Henne's best season. After two games, it appeared to be a disaster: Henne had not played well, his team was 0-2 and he had a knee injury.

But look at what Henne has done since. He led his team to a victory over Northwestern when his knee was not strong enough to last a whole game. He stunned his teammates by pulling out a victory at Illinois after suffering a separated shoulder.

Then came the topper, against Michigan State. Michigan coaches had serious doubts about whether he could play. He played the whole game, completed 10 of 13 passes on the final two touchdown drives and sealed a comeback victory.

We also discovered that Henne deserves more credit, retroactively, for leading his team to the Big Ten title as a freshman in 2004. Henne's 2007 backup, Ryan Mallett, is one of the most talented quarterbacks in school history, but he is stubborn and overconfident and not ready to play for a Big Ten contender.

In that sense, Mallett is like almost every other college freshman. And that's why Henne's 2004 season stands out.

Will his career be a disappointment if he fails to beat Ohio State on Saturday?

"When we're older we'll reminisce and say, 'We didn't win these three years,' or however many it will be, and it will stick in the back of our minds," Henne said before the season. "But we're not going to be disappointed because we did have success."

The running back

Mike Hart won't win the Heisman Trophy and probably won't be a finalist. Some people think of him as more bark than bite because of a few ill-advised comments -- notably his "little brother" crack about Michigan State and his comment that "there is nothing special about that defense" after losing, 42-39, to Ohio State last year.

Hart declined to talk to reporters after Michigan's loss to Wisconsin on Saturday, and U-M staffers wisely did not bring him to Monday's news conference. So I couldn't ask him if his career would be a failure if he loses Saturday.

But I think Hart answered the question already. I think he answered it in September, after his team got annihilated by Oregon and people wondered whether Michigan would even make a bowl.

Hart's answer that day shows why he is one of the finest leaders Michigan has ever had.

"I'm glad I'm on this team," Hart said then. "This is my team. I'm the leader of this team, and it's something that, I'm honestly glad I'm here right now. It's crazy to say. But deep down, the whole time at the end of the game with five minutes left, I said to myself I wouldn't rather be on any (other) team right now, I wouldn't rather get paid or anything."

Edited by wadegarrett
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Odd game this year - first time in ages that both teams are coming in off a loss. Whoever loses will certainly feel that the season was a disaster: TOSU for dropping two late games after being #1; Michigan for suffering four losses, four straight losses to TOSU, and not winning the Big Ten. I suspect Hart was held out last week - and Henne pulled early - to ensure their availability for this week's game.

Go Blue!

BTW, I watch Long, and I'm not convinced he'll succeed as an NFL left tackle. I agree with some writings I've seen that suggest he will be moved to the right side. GB him, but I'm not sure he's got the foot speed for left tackle at the next level. It'll be interesting to see how Henne and Hart end up getting drafted as well.

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Will Carr retire after this game?

I have been hearing rumblings around here for a few weeks now that he has Parkinson's (sp?)Disease but dismissed it because of the sources I was hearing it from, but DD confirmed he also heard it, so I am betting this is his last year. I have been on the side of letting Carr go for some time, but I give him all the credit in the world for righting the ship after the terrible start to the season. I hope he's not sick and can leave on his own terms though.
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Odd game this year - first time in ages that both teams are coming in off a loss. Whoever loses will certainly feel that the season was a disaster: TOSU for dropping two late games after being #1; Michigan for suffering four losses, four straight losses to TOSU, and not winning the Big Ten. I suspect Hart was held out last week - and Henne pulled early - to ensure their availability for this week's game.

Agree. Certainly didn't turn out the way most expected at the start of this year.

Go Blue Bucks!

fixed
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I don't think I've ever been less excited about an OSU/UM game in my life. I was looking for number 1 versus number 10 or so and both teams go out and lose games they were expected to win. I guess the letdown is just way to much. Hell, I don't even know what time the game is being played and made all sorts of Saturday plans. That would have never happened in the past.

Edited by Loke
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Will Carr retire after this game?

Rumors are that he will.

Carr Retiring; Announcement Coming Next Week

Three separate sources indicate that Carr has made his decision to retire official and people around the athletic department are being told. The formal announcement will come after the Ohio State game, possibly at the Monday press conference, possibly a day or two later.

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Big Ten reviewing scuffle after game between Ohio State, Illinois Tuesday, November 13, 2007Doug LesmerisesPlain Dealer Reporter Columbus -- The Big Ten is reviewing the scuffle at the end of Ohio State's loss to Illinois for potential violations of the conference's sportsmanship code, a league spokesman said Monday. Scott Chipman said the review could take up to six days, with possible penalties ranging from a public reprimand to suspensions. He said the process includes three days for each school to submit a review of the incident, with suggested penalties, and that conference officials could take another three days to read those reports and reach a decision. So will the Buckeyes be finding out Friday that a key player won't be available for Michigan on Saturday? Doubtful. Last year, when Illinois players carried their flag toward midfield after winning on the road at Michigan State and a brief fight ensued, no players were suspended. But the Big Ten did fine each team $10,000 and reprimanded both coaches. OSU coach Jim Tressel, from what he saw, said he does not anticipate any repercussions. "I wouldn't think so," Tressel said. "I think they were excited and we were on our way over to shake their hands and at the most, there was some nudging and pushing."

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I don't think I've ever been less excited about an OSU/UM game in my life. I was looking for number 1 versus number 10 or so and both teams go out and lose games they were expected to win. I guess the letdown is just way to much. Hell, I don't even know what time the game is being played and made all sorts of Saturday plans. That would have never happened in the past.

Michigan fan??
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Big Ten reviewing scuffle after game between Ohio State, Illinois Tuesday, November 13, 2007Doug LesmerisesPlain Dealer Reporter Columbus -- The Big Ten is reviewing the scuffle at the end of Ohio State's loss to Illinois for potential violations of the conference's sportsmanship code, a league spokesman said Monday. Scott Chipman said the review could take up to six days, with possible penalties ranging from a public reprimand to suspensions. He said the process includes three days for each school to submit a review of the incident, with suggested penalties, and that conference officials could take another three days to read those reports and reach a decision. So will the Buckeyes be finding out Friday that a key player won't be available for Michigan on Saturday? Doubtful. Last year, when Illinois players carried their flag toward midfield after winning on the road at Michigan State and a brief fight ensued, no players were suspended. But the Big Ten did fine each team $10,000 and reprimanded both coaches. OSU coach Jim Tressel, from what he saw, said he does not anticipate any repercussions. "I wouldn't think so," Tressel said. "I think they were excited and we were on our way over to shake their hands and at the most, there was some nudging and pushing."

That was as embarrassing as the loss itself.
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Big Ten reviewing scuffle after game between Ohio State, Illinois

Tuesday, November 13, 2007Doug LesmerisesPlain Dealer Reporter

Columbus -- The Big Ten is reviewing the scuffle at the end of Ohio State's loss to Illinois for potential violations of the conference's sportsmanship code, a league spokesman said Monday.

Scott Chipman said the review could take up to six days, with possible penalties ranging from a public reprimand to suspensions. He said the process includes three days for each school to submit a review of the incident, with suggested penalties, and that conference officials could take another three days to read those reports and reach a decision.

So will the Buckeyes be finding out Friday that a key player won't be available for Michigan on Saturday? Doubtful.

Last year, when Illinois players carried their flag toward midfield after winning on the road at Michigan State and a brief fight ensued, no players were suspended. But the Big Ten did fine each team $10,000 and reprimanded both coaches. OSU coach Jim Tressel, from what he saw, said he does not anticipate any repercussions.

"I wouldn't think so," Tressel said. "I think they were excited and we were on our way over to shake their hands and at the most, there was some nudging and pushing."

Uh oh, here comes the dreaded public reprimand.
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Big Ten reviewing scuffle after game between Ohio State, Illinois Tuesday, November 13, 2007Doug LesmerisesPlain Dealer Reporter Columbus -- The Big Ten is reviewing the scuffle at the end of Ohio State's loss to Illinois for potential violations of the conference's sportsmanship code, a league spokesman said Monday. Scott Chipman said the review could take up to six days, with possible penalties ranging from a public reprimand to suspensions. He said the process includes three days for each school to submit a review of the incident, with suggested penalties, and that conference officials could take another three days to read those reports and reach a decision. So will the Buckeyes be finding out Friday that a key player won't be available for Michigan on Saturday? Doubtful. Last year, when Illinois players carried their flag toward midfield after winning on the road at Michigan State and a brief fight ensued, no players were suspended. But the Big Ten did fine each team $10,000 and reprimanded both coaches. OSU coach Jim Tressel, from what he saw, said he does not anticipate any repercussions. "I wouldn't think so," Tressel said. "I think they were excited and we were on our way over to shake their hands and at the most, there was some nudging and pushing."

That was as embarrassing as the loss itself.
Tough to say without really knowing what happened.
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Will Carr retire after this game?

I have been hearing rumblings around here for a few weeks now that he has Parkinson's (sp?)Disease but dismissed it because of the sources I was hearing it from, but DD confirmed he also heard it, so I am betting this is his last year. I have been on the side of letting Carr go for some time, but I give him all the credit in the world for righting the ship after the terrible start to the season. I hope he's not sick and can leave on his own terms though.
This Parkinson's rumor has been out there for years. It's negative recruiting. At least I hope so.
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Odd game this year - first time in ages that both teams are coming in off a loss. Whoever loses will certainly feel that the season was a disaster: TOSU for dropping two late games after being #1; Michigan for suffering four losses, four straight losses to TOSU, and not winning the Big Ten. I suspect Hart was held out last week - and Henne pulled early - to ensure their availability for this week's game.

Go Blue!

BTW, I watch Long, and I'm not convinced he'll succeed as an NFL left tackle. I agree with some writings I've seen that suggest he will be moved to the right side. GB him, but I'm not sure he's got the foot speed for left tackle at the next level. It'll be interesting to see how Henne and Hart end up getting drafted as well.

:yes: about Long. I wish the Lions would move Jeff Backus to the right side. Or the bench.

I'm still amazed at where Hart gets his strength. While he's the same size as Emmitt Smith, Hart has battled injuries his entire career and that will hurt him in the draft.

Hopefully the right team drafts Henne. If not, Brady always reserves a spot on the Patriots roster for former UM QB's.

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If Mallet plays for any extended time in this game we are so screwed.

:bag: Loeffler has his work cut out for him in the offseason. Without Long, Henne, Hart and most likely Manningham, the offense could struggle next year.
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