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On 1/20/2021 at 12:45 PM, Chadstroma said:

It is one of the many reasons brokers love UWM and have grown them to the largest wholesale lender in the country.

Brokers may love them, but investors don't.  Worst stock purchase of the year.  Makes buying Amazon in the fall look like a smart move.

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I’m officially a homeowner. Just closed.  2.75%, 15 years.  🥳

Just made my last mortgage payment yesterday!!!  I am free and clear!

If you guys would allow me to vent... I need to vent a bit... I could vent to other LO's who all know it and they just smile and nod (somehow that doesn't really feel like venting) or my wife but with

3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Brokers may love them, but investors don't.  Worst stock purchase of the year.  Makes buying Amazon in the fall look like a smart move.

Wall St doesn't get it.

When rates rise, they will dominate and take more market share. Investors will trail in. O have picked up more shares as the price has dropped.

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Just now, Chadstroma said:

Wall St doesn't get it.

When rates rise, they will dominate and take more market share. Investors will trail in. O have picked up more shares as the price has dropped.

Wrong thread but I can't resist.  How does fewer mortgages help there sales growth?  I'd rather have 50% of 100 than 95% of 10.

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So Chad, I have been waiting to refinance to get my wife's 2 years of self employment history on the books. Essentially we need to file this years taxes to complete the process. But, we are waiting on tax paperwork to come in to file, as I have been furloughed a decent percentage, so we needed the added monies on the books instead of just basing it off my income originally. Anything we can do beside just chilling like we have been?

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1 hour ago, madshot31 said:

So Chad, I have been waiting to refinance to get my wife's 2 years of self employment history on the books. Essentially we need to file this years taxes to complete the process. But, we are waiting on tax paperwork to come in to file, as I have been furloughed a decent percentage, so we needed the added monies on the books instead of just basing it off my income originally. Anything we can do beside just chilling like we have been?

You may qualify with just one year of self employment if you can show a two-year history in the same line of work previous. 

Generally you are going to need further from the typical docs: 

-Two years tax returns, all schedules all pages of federal for both personal and business

-YTD audited P&L or a P&L with supporting bank statements to help prove the P&L

-Balance sheet

(may need other documentation based on specifics like business license and/or CPA signed letter for business operation etc)

 

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I refied a few months back to a 15 year 2.5%. Make any sense to try refi again to an even lower rate? $300k loan. Current lender who my loan was just sold to has sent me multiple communications about contacting them for an even better deal. Do current lenders do rate cuts without all the fees? Do you always still have to do a full close process with title fees or can that step be skipped if staying with current lender? 

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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Wrong thread but I can't resist.  How does fewer mortgages help there sales growth?  I'd rather have 50% of 100 than 95% of 10.

So... this is what I am saying.... brokers know because it is our business to know.... no one else does though. I will try to explain briefly in big strokes because otherwise it will be a very lengthy post. 

Essentially, UWM is the best at what they do. No one comes close. They are built on speed and ease of use. They are heavily invested in proprietary technology for that speed and ease of use which is why brokers love them. Most brokers.... like 90%? range from LOVE to really like using them, very few complainers and to be honest most who don't like them it is because of user error, instead of using their tech they try to use them like another lender and get mad that it doesn't work. Most lenders, you lean on the Account Executive HEAVILY and a good AE makes or breaks the relationship. With UWM you have an AE but they are more of just a personal touch resource and if you try to lean on the AE like other lenders you will think they are horrible. I have heard brokers say that the big problem that Wall St doesn't understand is that they are treating them as another lender and they are more of a tech company than your run of the mill next in line lender. 

Here is what I meant about dominating in the future. Right now.... if you are a lender, you are making money. Some wholesale lenders suck and the only way that they can attract business is by offering really low rates. Now, when I say suck, I mean, they will take months to close a loan with going back and forth on a long list of conditions and adding more conditions and then dropping the ball on the file etc. I mean dumpster fires that not only are a horror show for the broker but for the client as well. It doesn't matter how good a rate is if you can't close the damn thing.... their approach is basically throw everything against the wall and hopefully something sticks. Good lenders try to balance offering great rate with delivering as they are suppose to even if it takes a little time. UWM knows it is top of the line and so what they have done is raised their rates. They are NEVER the lowest rates right now when we do our shopping of wholesale but MANY (including me) brokers value their ability for speed and ease so that we get comments like "Wow, that was fast" and "Man, that was much easier than I thought it would be" from our clients. So, we take the hit on the pricing and make less money on the deal than we otherwise could of by using other lenders. So, if it is somewhat close and could to cost me $200 in commission to use UWM versus another lender to get that same rate, I am going to do it because it is worth it to me. Now, UWM isn't the only lender I use but I prefer them for sure. Most brokers are like me in that. UWM is taking the higher margins and reinvesting in itself to continue to get better. Now.... as rates increase what will happen? Many crappy lenders are going to be in trouble. If they have retail and wholesale, they may close up wholesale operations as no one uses them. Some will fail completely. More than a few will sell out. As volume decreases, UWM will lower their rates (before rates went down they did the same thing) and become a leader in rates as well as being the best in everything else. In the previous increasing rate environment, their volume and market share increased. That will continue as rates increase moving forward. 

Stock price is forward looking as much as it tries to be... and in this case, those who do not understand the industry and company expect that their volume will decrease as the loans decrease thus less profits. I do not believe that will be the case. Their volume will increase and they will show dominance against other lenders who's volume decreases and they struggle. 

A well known and respected guy in the broker community who established the broker professional association pretty much nailed it when he posted in a broker FB group recently "I just bought 1,000 shares of UWM. What will I do if the price falls further? Buy more." I am following suit. 

Yes, this was the short version of the reply. 

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17 minutes ago, Shatner! said:

I refied a few months back to a 15 year 2.5%. Make any sense to try refi again to an even lower rate? $300k loan. Current lender who my loan was just sold to has sent me multiple communications about contacting them for an even better deal. Do current lenders do rate cuts without all the fees? Do you always still have to do a full close process with title fees or can that step be skipped if staying with current lender? 

Worth a conversation with more detail I would say. Depending on specifics, yes, possible to lower and make sense in doing so. 

Can lenders lower a rate without all the fees? Yes, it would be a loan modification but that doesn't generally happen unless you are in hardship. Otherwise, they have to refinance the loan like any other lender with all the same steps and title etc. Mortgage servicers want you to think it will be better, faster, etc to deal with them... that is the main reason many of them service the loans to begin with as a lead generation platform. Same thing that banks rely on.... the idea that "It's my bank, they have all my in info and everything it will be easier/better/best rate" and nope. If it is a conventional loan it needs to be refinanced fully as a conventional loan or it isn't a conventional loan anymore and is a portfolio product. Same with FHA, VA or USDA. All lenders play by their rules and the only thing any lenders can do is ADD more rules to their basic rules... not take away. 

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3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Worth a conversation with more detail I would say. Depending on specifics, yes, possible to lower and make sense in doing so. 

Can lenders lower a rate without all the fees? Yes, it would be a loan modification but that doesn't generally happen unless you are in hardship. Otherwise, they have to refinance the loan like any other lender with all the same steps and title etc. Mortgage servicers want you to think it will be better, faster, etc to deal with them... that is the main reason many of them service the loans to begin with as a lead generation platform. Same thing that banks rely on.... the idea that "It's my bank, they have all my in info and everything it will be easier/better/best rate" and nope. If it is a conventional loan it needs to be refinanced fully as a conventional loan or it isn't a conventional loan anymore and is a portfolio product. Same with FHA, VA or USDA. All lenders play by their rules and the only thing any lenders can do is ADD more rules to their basic rules... not take away. 

Good info. Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

So... this is what I am saying.... brokers know because it is our business to know.... no one else does though. I will try to explain briefly in big strokes because otherwise it will be a very lengthy post. 

Essentially, UWM is the best at what they do. No one comes close. They are built on speed and ease of use. They are heavily invested in proprietary technology for that speed and ease of use which is why brokers love them. Most brokers.... like 90%? range from LOVE to really like using them, very few complainers and to be honest most who don't like them it is because of user error, instead of using their tech they try to use them like another lender and get mad that it doesn't work. Most lenders, you lean on the Account Executive HEAVILY and a good AE makes or breaks the relationship. With UWM you have an AE but they are more of just a personal touch resource and if you try to lean on the AE like other lenders you will think they are horrible. I have heard brokers say that the big problem that Wall St doesn't understand is that they are treating them as another lender and they are more of a tech company than your run of the mill next in line lender. 

Here is what I meant about dominating in the future. Right now.... if you are a lender, you are making money. Some wholesale lenders suck and the only way that they can attract business is by offering really low rates. Now, when I say suck, I mean, they will take months to close a loan with going back and forth on a long list of conditions and adding more conditions and then dropping the ball on the file etc. I mean dumpster fires that not only are a horror show for the broker but for the client as well. It doesn't matter how good a rate is if you can't close the damn thing.... their approach is basically throw everything against the wall and hopefully something sticks. Good lenders try to balance offering great rate with delivering as they are suppose to even if it takes a little time. UWM knows it is top of the line and so what they have done is raised their rates. They are NEVER the lowest rates right now when we do our shopping of wholesale but MANY (including me) brokers value their ability for speed and ease so that we get comments like "Wow, that was fast" and "Man, that was much easier than I thought it would be" from our clients. So, we take the hit on the pricing and make less money on the deal than we otherwise could of by using other lenders. So, if it is somewhat close and could to cost me $200 in commission to use UWM versus another lender to get that same rate, I am going to do it because it is worth it to me. Now, UWM isn't the only lender I use but I prefer them for sure. Most brokers are like me in that. UWM is taking the higher margins and reinvesting in itself to continue to get better. Now.... as rates increase what will happen? Many crappy lenders are going to be in trouble. If they have retail and wholesale, they may close up wholesale operations as no one uses them. Some will fail completely. More than a few will sell out. As volume decreases, UWM will lower their rates (before rates went down they did the same thing) and become a leader in rates as well as being the best in everything else. In the previous increasing rate environment, their volume and market share increased. That will continue as rates increase moving forward. 

Stock price is forward looking as much as it tries to be... and in this case, those who do not understand the industry and company expect that their volume will decrease as the loans decrease thus less profits. I do not believe that will be the case. Their volume will increase and they will show dominance against other lenders who's volume decreases and they struggle. 

A well known and respected guy in the broker community who established the broker professional association pretty much nailed it when he posted in a broker FB group recently "I just bought 1,000 shares of UWM. What will I do if the price falls further? Buy more." I am following suit. 

Yes, this was the short version of the reply. 

So I of course was curious who is steering the ship and how long this innovative approach might last.

The guy is only 41, he's not going anywhere.  The path to take out the dinosaurs should continue.  You are right, he will feast on the weak in tough times.  Market is frothy as is this stock so entry point is a guessing game, but a long-term position here seems wise.  Big fan of market share I guess you could say.  Thanks.

BTW, he's worth 12 billion already.  Played for Tom Izzo as a walk-on and won the NC in 2000.  Finished at their business school.  Donated 32 mil to MSU (mostly the football program) a few weeks ago.

Edited by Rodrigo Duterte
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Just now, Rodrigo Duterte said:

So I of course was curious who is steering the ship and how long this innovative approach might last.

The guy is only 41, he's not going anywhere.  The path to take out the dinosaurs should continue.  You are right, he will feast on the weak in tough times.  Market is frothy as is this stock so entry point is a guessing game, but a long-term position here seems wise.  Thanks.

BTW, he's worth 12 billion already.  Played for Tom Izzo as a walk-on.  Donated 32 mil to the MSU football team a few weeks ago.

Mat Ishbia didn't just play at MSU, he won a championship there. He is a cool dude on top of it all. Smart and driven of course as you can imagine someone who took a family business with like 12 employees and grown it into the largest wholesale lender in the country but he is full of integrity too. But he is also nice and down to earth for a guy who is now a billionaire. I have heard him speak in large groups, small groups, and personally once and he isn't a BSer at all. When things got rough real quick early on the COVID and there were questions about some lenders laying off or not making it etc. he told his entire company that he would not lay off anyone. I think it was something like he would sleep in his office before laying off a single person. They kind of halted lending (they were still lending but their pricing was silly high) and retail LO's were crowing that they were about to fail. I was on a small group of brokers on a zoom with him and he addressed it head on, told us what they were doing (basically pausing to take a pulse on the market and positioning to come out stronger on the back end) and they did exactly what he told us. They are always making moves now, as he puts it, not to win now but to win tomorrow and the next week and the next month and the next year and so on. Through this boom a lot of lenders are just trying to win now and worry about tomorrow- then. Sometimes the decisions they make end up causing some brokers to whine but if you have listened to Mat, you understand that the moves are about playing chess when the competitors are playing checkers. I have a lot of faith in Ish (as we brokers call him). 

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Chad, I actually edited my post to include the NC when I thought about the audience here.  Funny, you were beating me to it.

Often you see companies focus quarter to quarter and on the market and their stock price.  Investors as well.  A million reasons why, and why they shouldn't obviously, but whatever.  It's nice to see one where it appears you are somewhat getting in with decades or so to go -- even if the real ground floor was built a decade ago.  This will be the type of company to hammer when their industry craters.  And it will.

As an aside, I love the sports tie-in with this guy and all those lessons learned.  What a great story that has served him incredibly well.  And the giving back, while still so young, speaks volumes.  He also handled Covid like a champ, while others were freaking.  They'll be ready for whatever.  People love working for leaders like that.

Anyway, as to not derail the thread.  Could you send me your email, I think I have some business for you.

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15 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Chad, I actually edited my post to include the NC when I thought about the audience here.  Funny, you were beating me to it.

Often you see companies focus quarter to quarter and on the market and their stock price.  Investors as well.  A million reasons why, and why they shouldn't obviously, but whatever.  It's nice to see one where it appears you are somewhat getting in with decades or so to go -- even if the real ground floor was built a decade ago.  This will be the type of company to hammer when their industry craters.  And it will.

As an aside, I love the sports tie-in with this guy and all those lessons learned.  What a great story that has served him incredibly well.  And the giving back, while still so young, speaks volumes.  He also handled Covid like a champ, while others were freaking.  They'll be ready for whatever.  People love working for leaders like that.

Anyway, as to not derail the thread.  Could you send me your email, I think I have some business for you.

I haven't had the chance to read it yet (I am going to request a signed copy when I get around to it) but he has a book which prob would ne of interest to a number of us on the board:

Running the Corporate Offense: Lessons in Effective Leadership from the Bench to the Board Room

Here is my email: cmasters@marketplacemortgage.com 

Thank you!

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Any ideas on the future of the market over the next couple of years, Chad? We're selling in June or July and likely buying again in Florida in a couple years. We'll be renters for a couple of years before we get to a permanent location again. 

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Is a job change a mortgage deal killer if in the same role and same industry with 20 years of essentially uninterrupted employment?  I’m in tech sales and considering making a move, but we’re also considering buying our first home soon. 

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3 minutes ago, SFBayDuck said:

Is a job change a mortgage deal killer if in the same role and same industry with 20 years of essentially uninterrupted employment?  I’m in tech sales and considering making a move, but we’re also considering buying our first home soon. 

Wasn't for me, they just want the pay stubs to support it.

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2 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Any ideas on the future of the market over the next couple of years, Chad? We're selling in June or July and likely buying again in Florida in a couple years. We'll be renters for a couple of years before we get to a permanent location again. 

The next year I expect a steady but slow upward movement on rates. After that... I am worried about how rates will go. The massive stimulus packages (monetary and fiscal) with policies that will drive up the cost of fuel, I would not be surprised to see elevated levels of inflation like we have not seen in a ling time. If that happens, rates will go up to combat it. This is all dependent on a decent economy though. 

For real estate, increased rates do impact the market but on the other end, there has been such a lack of inventory for so long in most markets that it's hard to see a drop. Though raising rates will damper the hot markets as buying power is erased. 

But who the hell knows? 

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1 hour ago, SFBayDuck said:

Is a job change a mortgage deal killer if in the same role and same industry with 20 years of essentially uninterrupted employment?  I’m in tech sales and considering making a move, but we’re also considering buying our first home soon. 

No... unless your pay structure was very different (salary to full commission) etc. 

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@Chadstroma

When you have time can you give me some advice.

Details: 270K balance remaining, 3.625% rate.  No PMI. Have 800+ credit. This was a 30 year. 265 months left. Not sure if this matters - We have paid extra each month pretty much 13 payments every year. A sheet I use says if we continue this we are done in a little over 11 years.

Does it make sense for us to move to a 10 or 15?

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

For real estate, increased rates do impact the market but on the other end, there has been such a lack of inventory for so long in most markets that it's hard to see a drop. Though raising rates will damper the hot markets as buying power is erased.

I wounder just how many units there are being rented that are impacted the eviction moratorium that could flood supply.

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49 minutes ago, The General said:

@Chadstroma

When you have time can you give me some advice.

Details: 270K balance remaining, 3.625% rate.  No PMI. Have 800+ credit. This was a 30 year. 265 months left. Not sure if this matters - We have paid extra each month pretty much 13 payments every year. A sheet I use says if we continue this we are done in a little over 11 years.

Does it make sense for us to move to a 10 or 15?

Thanks!

Oh yea. If you are set to pay off in 11 years now you can refi and speed that all up. Juat think if it this way.... your are paying  ore principal now but when you refi to a lower rate more of your payment goes to principal because less is going to interest. I would take a shot in the dark and guess if you pay the same now with a refi you prob will shave two years off. 

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49 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

I wounder just how many units there are being rented that are impacted the eviction moratorium that could flood supply.

That is a good point. 

With it extended we won't see the true impact of all of the eviction/foreclosure until that is lifted but I haven't heard a lot of chatter about that being problematic. 

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10 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Oh yea. If you are set to pay off in 11 years now you can refi and speed that all up. Juat think if it this way.... your are paying  ore principal now but when you refi to a lower rate more of your payment goes to principal because less is going to interest. I would take a shot in the dark and guess if you pay the same now with a refi you prob will shave two years off. 

Awesome. It seemed like this trying to use online calculators but was worried there was some catch.

One more question should we just contact our guy and ask for the numbers on this and a way to check that the deal he is giving us is good?

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10 minutes ago, The General said:

Awesome. It seemed like this trying to use online calculators but was worried there was some catch.

One more question should we just contact our guy and ask for the numbers on this and a way to check that the deal he is giving us is good?

You can shoot me the loan estimate and I can take a look go see if it looks solid or not so good or raped like you went to Quicken. 

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3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

You can shoot me the loan estimate and I can take a look go see if it looks solid or not so good or raped like you went to Quicken. 

Appreciate it. Thanks a ton, Chad.

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Was also thinking about this. We'll be renting for a couple years for about half of what our current mortgage is. Was going to just keep acting as if the mortgage is the same, except we'll just be putting half into an account to continue saving for our next home. Any special type of account we should put that in or just stick it all in saving? 

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15 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Was also thinking about this. We'll be renting for a couple years for about half of what our current mortgage is. Was going to just keep acting as if the mortgage is the same, except we'll just be putting half into an account to continue saving for our next home. Any special type of account we should put that in or just stick it all in saving? 

Whatever you can get the best return on without risking the principle. As long as there is a paper trail and the money is seasoned, it won't matter what kind of account the money is in for the mortgage. Just wouldn't want it in stocks and right before you want to take it out the market takes a dive. 

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I am confident that the bottom is in the rear view now. Should be upward movement on rates from here barring any major changes in events. Still good options but now is the time if you haven't done anything yet.

Edited by Chadstroma
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We did see some rate improvement today. :excited: And I am thinking it will level out a bit here. But again, I don't think we will revisit the bottom rates that we had and the overall movement should start to head up. 

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1 hour ago, fruity pebbles said:

Have refi’s come to a screeching halt with rates going up so quickly? 

You should see the private groups on FB for lenders and brokers.... it is like it was Black Friday and we are all stock traders. 

The well is drying up quickly on refinances for sure. There will always be some even in rising interest rate environments (for example in a divorce to buy out the other side) but it is definitely going to shift to a purchase market for lenders. 

We should see some massive changes in the industry as I don't think this is an event that will corrected at all. All the "we do mortgages too!" places will disappear as easy money is gone. More than a coupe of lenders will fail or sell. A whole lot of Loan Officers that have jumped in the last year or two will find it hard to make a living. The real estate market is solid but there needs to be more inventory for it to really generate business. Oh and I have to make phone calls to my realtor contacts that I haven't talked to in a while. 

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5 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

You should see the private groups on FB for lenders and brokers.... it is like it was Black Friday and we are all stock traders. 

The well is drying up quickly on refinances for sure. There will always be some even in rising interest rate environments (for example in a divorce to buy out the other side) but it is definitely going to shift to a purchase market for lenders. 

We should see some massive changes in the industry as I don't think this is an event that will corrected at all. All the "we do mortgages too!" places will disappear as easy money is gone. More than a coupe of lenders will fail or sell. A whole lot of Loan Officers that have jumped in the last year or two will find it hard to make a living. The real estate market is solid but there needs to be more inventory for it to really generate business. Oh and I have to make phone calls to my realtor contacts that I haven't talked to in a while. 

Glad I got mine locked and approved. Not the bottom but 2.375 for 15 and no appraisal/decent credit towards the rest of closing costs. Need to make sure it goes through with no hitches.

Looks like it really didn’t jump too much. 2.5% now with less credit. Up, but not horrible if you refi’d now. 

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1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Glad I got mine locked and approved. Not the bottom but 2.375 for 15 and no appraisal/decent credit towards the rest of closing costs. Need to make sure it goes through with no hitches.

Looks like it really didn’t jump too much. 2.5% now with less credit. Up, but not horrible if you refi’d now. 

It all depends on specifics but yea there are options, specially if you just forget the last year and think about all the years previous, we are still in silly low rates... I mean, if anyone was waiting hoping for 0% rates or something..... now is the time to forget about that fantasy and jump in. I think there is a definite upward movement from here on out. 

 

*there is always some up and downs along the way, just like stocks so it is more about momentum and the mo is on the side of rising rates. No doubt. 

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On 2/23/2021 at 6:48 PM, Chadstroma said:

We did see some rate improvement today. :excited: And I am thinking it will level out a bit here. But again, I don't think we will revisit the bottom rates that we had and the overall movement should start to head up. 

And this didn't age well.... today was a bloodbath again. 

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On 2/19/2021 at 1:05 PM, Chadstroma said:

So... this is what I am saying.... brokers know because it is our business to know.... no one else does though. I will try to explain briefly in big strokes because otherwise it will be a very lengthy post. 

Essentially, UWM is the best at what they do. No one comes close. They are built on speed and ease of use. They are heavily invested in proprietary technology for that speed and ease of use which is why brokers love them. Most brokers.... like 90%? range from LOVE to really like using them, very few complainers and to be honest most who don't like them it is because of user error, instead of using their tech they try to use them like another lender and get mad that it doesn't work. Most lenders, you lean on the Account Executive HEAVILY and a good AE makes or breaks the relationship. With UWM you have an AE but they are more of just a personal touch resource and if you try to lean on the AE like other lenders you will think they are horrible. I have heard brokers say that the big problem that Wall St doesn't understand is that they are treating them as another lender and they are more of a tech company than your run of the mill next in line lender. 

Here is what I meant about dominating in the future. Right now.... if you are a lender, you are making money. Some wholesale lenders suck and the only way that they can attract business is by offering really low rates. Now, when I say suck, I mean, they will take months to close a loan with going back and forth on a long list of conditions and adding more conditions and then dropping the ball on the file etc. I mean dumpster fires that not only are a horror show for the broker but for the client as well. It doesn't matter how good a rate is if you can't close the damn thing.... their approach is basically throw everything against the wall and hopefully something sticks. Good lenders try to balance offering great rate with delivering as they are suppose to even if it takes a little time. UWM knows it is top of the line and so what they have done is raised their rates. They are NEVER the lowest rates right now when we do our shopping of wholesale but MANY (including me) brokers value their ability for speed and ease so that we get comments like "Wow, that was fast" and "Man, that was much easier than I thought it would be" from our clients. So, we take the hit on the pricing and make less money on the deal than we otherwise could of by using other lenders. So, if it is somewhat close and could to cost me $200 in commission to use UWM versus another lender to get that same rate, I am going to do it because it is worth it to me. Now, UWM isn't the only lender I use but I prefer them for sure. Most brokers are like me in that. UWM is taking the higher margins and reinvesting in itself to continue to get better. Now.... as rates increase what will happen? Many crappy lenders are going to be in trouble. If they have retail and wholesale, they may close up wholesale operations as no one uses them. Some will fail completely. More than a few will sell out. As volume decreases, UWM will lower their rates (before rates went down they did the same thing) and become a leader in rates as well as being the best in everything else. In the previous increasing rate environment, their volume and market share increased. That will continue as rates increase moving forward. 

Stock price is forward looking as much as it tries to be... and in this case, those who do not understand the industry and company expect that their volume will decrease as the loans decrease thus less profits. I do not believe that will be the case. Their volume will increase and they will show dominance against other lenders who's volume decreases and they struggle. 

A well known and respected guy in the broker community who established the broker professional association pretty much nailed it when he posted in a broker FB group recently "I just bought 1,000 shares of UWM. What will I do if the price falls further? Buy more." I am following suit. 

Yes, this was the short version of the reply. 

Thanks for the reply.  In for more AH at $7.57.  Chasing this to Zero.

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18 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Thanks for the reply.  In for more AH at $7.57.  Chasing this to Zero.

It ain't a day trade but I believe strongly it will pay off. I will be adding to my position as it dips. 

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2 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

It ain't a day trade but I believe strongly it will pay off. I will be adding to my position as it dips. 

I think I will do some juggling to purchase more.  Now at 5.24% dividend and a 4.88 PE

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On 2/19/2021 at 1:05 PM, Chadstroma said:

UWM knows it is top of the line and so what they have done is raised their rates. They are NEVER the lowest rates right now when we do our shopping

What the hell Chad?  I wanted the lowest rate?!?!?  :lol: 

I'm obviously kidding and I was really surprised at how fast you and UWM were able to close my loan :thumbup:

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1 minute ago, Steeler said:

What the hell Chad?  I wanted the lowest rate?!?!?  :lol: 

I'm obviously kidding and I was really surprised at how fast you and UWM were able to close my loan :thumbup:

I cut my commission to get you there bud. Sacrifice our commission to make things not a living nightmare hell for 2 months for you. You know the whole "we are doing this this way and it is all complicated" talk? :D

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Hardly anything on the market in our area. Goes immediately. Guessing we will get multiple offers on our home this summer when we sell in the Nashville suburbs. 

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7 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Hardly anything on the market in our area. Goes immediately. Guessing we will get multiple offers on our home this summer when we sell in the Nashville suburbs. 

Lot's of memes in the realtor/lender circles about "How high should we go above asking price?" And there is a picture of Snoop Dog or Willie Nelson. 

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Trying to decide whether to refi or aggressively just pay it off over the next 12-24 months or invest it. My plan would be to pay extra $1000/week til paid off.

Almost 10 years (in July) into 30 year FHA loan (4.625%). No mortgage insurance. Have ~65k left to pay on it (home value 300-350k...not sure if this matters but everytime I look at refi rates it asks for it). Phoenix area. Mortgage is through Chase.

My sister told me to refi it and invest instead as returns would be greater. I do already max out Roth/HSA. Deferred comp is option with employer. I hate debt and just want to be done with it. I really don't want to just throw several thousand at just refinancing.

Any advice? Thanks for any help!

 

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29 minutes ago, Bears_Man2 said:

Trying to decide whether to refi or aggressively just pay it off over the next 12-24 months or invest it. My plan would be to pay extra $1000/week til paid off.

Almost 10 years (in July) into 30 year FHA loan (4.625%). No mortgage insurance. Have ~65k left to pay on it (home value 300-350k...not sure if this matters but everytime I look at refi rates it asks for it). Phoenix area. Mortgage is through Chase.

My sister told me to refi it and invest instead as returns would be greater. I do already max out Roth/HSA. Deferred comp is option with employer. I hate debt and just want to be done with it. I really don't want to just throw several thousand at just refinancing.

Any advice?

 

You could refi that into a 10 year loan greatly lower your rate (we saw some improvement today after a couple of bloody weeks, rates are volatile) mid to upper 2's. Should take your payment down to low to mid $600 range. Throw the difference of that $1K plus the difference in your current payment into an investment account. Over the next to years if you do not get at least a 3% return then you REALLY suck at investing.

That is what I would do. Leverage the cost of the $65K into a very low rate and get a better return on your money. I don't pay a penny more on my mortgage. It just doesn't make sense when you are talking about it costing you in the 2's. My money can work more/better for me elsewhere. 

But there is always a 'sleep well at night' factor that isn't all about what makes sense by numbers. If you REALLY can't handle debt and it REALLY bothers you even if you know you are in the end going to have more money than if you paid it off then decide.... does it bother you enough to give up the likely gains you would get by doing it? If so then you could potentially look to refi and see if the break even point ends up helping you pay off faster and save money if not then you could go with your plan of paying off with extra principal payments. 

If you want, I got an AZ guy that would take care of it for you. Just let me know. 

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28 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

What are you seeing 30 year rates at right now? 

I really hate that question (no offense to you) because it really is impossible to answer since there are so many variables involved... loan type, loan purpose, LTV, loan balance, property type, zip code, credit score, etc...

I mean, I was pricing one client out last night.... one thing changed her options from 3.375% to 4.5% (the type of her current loan was what made the difference).... granted she had less than good credit. 

Prob high 2's thru mid 3's for most people right now.

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On 2/26/2021 at 6:16 PM, Chadstroma said:

You could refi that into a 10 year loan greatly lower your rate (we saw some improvement today after a couple of bloody weeks, rates are volatile) mid to upper 2's. Should take your payment down to low to mid $600 range. Throw the difference of that $1K plus the difference in your current payment into an investment account. Over the next to years if you do not get at least a 3% return then you REALLY suck at investing.

That is what I would do. Leverage the cost of the $65K into a very low rate and get a better return on your money. I don't pay a penny more on my mortgage. It just doesn't make sense when you are talking about it costing you in the 2's. My money can work more/better for me elsewhere. 

But there is always a 'sleep well at night' factor that isn't all about what makes sense by numbers. If you REALLY can't handle debt and it REALLY bothers you even if you know you are in the end going to have more money than if you paid it off then decide.... does it bother you enough to give up the likely gains you would get by doing it? If so then you could potentially look to refi and see if the break even point ends up helping you pay off faster and save money if not then you could go with your plan of paying off with extra principal payments. 

If you want, I got an AZ guy that would take care of it for you. Just let me know. 

Thanks Chad. PM sent.

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23 hours ago, culdeus said:

Well I don't feel bad about my 2.875 30  anymore.  

Rate envy is bad... I could be upset that your rate is better than mine.... but I am not. 😁

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A few things that people interested in mortgages will want to know...

  • Rates have gone up dramatically, they have come back down a tad. I have heard that 70% of current mortgage loans could STILL refinance with where rates are currently and save money. That is a lot but as I have said, my expectation is that rates will be overall heading up over time here. So, now is the time if you haven't yet refinanced. Also, the people you know and care about that maybe are not financially savvy... get them on board with a refi (even more so if they are in a state I can help in... hint hint)
  • New underwriting from Fannie and Freddie coming out March 13th. Nothing huge or drastic but the underwriting will get tighter. Expecting about 1% less approvals than with the current models. 
  • Rumor mill on the FHA mortgage insurance is that it may end up getting reduced. The rumor is based on Obama era plans to refused it by 25 bps but that was killed under the Trump administration and now growing expectation that the Biden administration will go back to what Obama was looking to do or even more. That will be kind of funny because of the FHFA allowance for Fannie and Freddie to charge 50 bps on refinances currently for an 'adverse market' and then have FHA charge less on MI. 
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