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My Credit Union today is at 4.875 for a 30 year fixed and 4.375 for a 15 year. I'm thinking they're not going much lower. Should I jump on this (thinking 15)?

Points/closing costs?
Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan:Discount Points $162.50 0.125%Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%Recording Fee $102.00Application Fee* $395.00Settlement Fee $270.00Title Company Courier Fee $25.00Lenders Title Insurance $575.00Tax Service Fee $72.00Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.
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I’m officially a homeowner. Just closed.  2.75%, 15 years.  🥳

Just made my last mortgage payment yesterday!!!  I am free and clear!

If you guys would allow me to vent... I need to vent a bit... I could vent to other LO's who all know it and they just smile and nod (somehow that doesn't really feel like venting) or my wife but with

My Credit Union dropped to 5.75 today. I have 6.25 with around 25 years to go on my 30yr of $120 and I have a 6.99 on another $20 that I will roll in. You guys think I should wait longer or grab the 5.75. It was 6 two days ago.

Countrywide is at 5.125% for a 30 year with no points.
I would like to use my credit union because they treat me very well. I am wondering though if they are just slow to catch up to everyone else. It seems like that will cost me alot of $ if I take the 5.75 over the 5.25 rates I am seeing. It is also costing me about $3000 to close. How much would I have to pay countrywide to close and other fees?
Cross eyed- Are you sure about that on CW? On their web page they list rate as low as 5.125% but with an APR of 5.42%. That high of an APR suggest points or a huge lender fee.

PIK- If it was me and most people I know they would not do a loan with someone at such a massive rate difference because they "treat me well". A 30 year mortgage is a long time. Friends will come and friends will go while you are still paying on this note. Also let me say they may not be treating you so right. We are paid more when we can get the customer to take a higher rate. Maybe they can offer you better but wont' because they want to make a lot more money. As for how much does it take to close you need to get a Good Faith Estimate. When comparing lenders try not to focus on title fees(unless the lender gets a discount on title fees) and focus on the rate and fees charged by that lender.

Im not going to take it unless its competitive of couse. I am just trying to figure out why its such a big diff and if the gap between the CU and other lenders probably will close a bit. Thoughts on that?
Most of us get the same rate with maybe a little difference. My guess is the reason your CU is so far off is they want a higher profit margin per loan and they won't narrow it unless they think it's going to cost them business.

Some people feel more comfortable dealing with major institutions like a CW or Wells Fargo but the truth of the matter is you will almost never get as good of a deal with them as you could if you used a mortgage banker or mortgage broker. I'd shop around. IF CW is really offering a 5.125% with no points and low lender fees that's a good offer.

This is true but what is also true is that your chances of getting screwed over sky rocket as well. Further, brokers tend to not give good overall advice because all they care about is getting the mortgage business. A banker usually is looking to cross sale you into other products and services while also being heavily regulated in ways that brokers currently are not.

The good news is that a lot of the 'bad' brokers are already out of business now because the 'easy' money is gone and they have very few repeat business but the bad news is that there are plenty of 'bad' ones still out there.

If you go to a broker, be careful. I usually suggest those who have a better working knowledge of mortgages to go to a broker while those who do not should more than likely just go to a bank. Something that sounds too good to be true, usually is. In my 10 years of banking- I can not tell you how many horror stories I have seen first hand with brokers and how many stories I could tell of someone shopping me- me telling them everything of what they were getting from me- have them go to a broker than was offering something so much better- and later come back to me to do their other banking and/or help them with their mortgage because they got screwed over and appreciated me giving them advice that was in their best interest even when it was not in mine (meaning getting the immediate 'sale')

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My Credit Union today is at 4.875 for a 30 year fixed and 4.375 for a 15 year. I'm thinking they're not going much lower. Should I jump on this (thinking 15)?

Points/closing costs?
Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan:

Discount Points $162.50 0.125%

Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%

Recording Fee $102.00

Application Fee* $395.00

Settlement Fee $270.00

Title Company Courier Fee $25.00

Lenders Title Insurance $575.00

Tax Service Fee $72.00

Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50

There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.

I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?
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My Credit Union today is at 4.875 for a 30 year fixed and 4.375 for a 15 year. I'm thinking they're not going much lower. Should I jump on this (thinking 15)?

Points/closing costs?
Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan:

Discount Points $162.50 0.125%

Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%

Recording Fee $102.00

Application Fee* $395.00

Settlement Fee $270.00

Title Company Courier Fee $25.00

Lenders Title Insurance $575.00

Tax Service Fee $72.00

Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50

There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.

I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?
I cut and pasted it. Forgot to include this line which relates to the "application fee" line above:

*Items paid outside of closing. These amounts are not included in the total closing costs.

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I hope I have been helpful to some of you but I'm going to have to leave the answers up to some of the other qualified people on this board. I just ran my rates on Bankrate.com and offered the best rates in Texas, GA, CA and Fl and just got swamped. Good luck to you all. If anyone wants a loan in one of the states I mentioned feel free to contact me and I guarantee I can make you a better offer than you will get from any major lending institution or Bankrate.com but I only do loans for people with good credit and right now I only want to handle those 4 states. Let me stress I'm not here to make money as business is not an issue right now but I'll help you if you need it and I'll also be happy to advise those I can if you feel comfortable with a major lender or are in a state I don't want to service.

:rolleyes: Lots of us are thankful for the mortgage discussions on this board.
A buyers market and very low rates.... are you still looking to buy mid 2008?
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My Credit Union today is at 4.875 for a 30 year fixed and 4.375 for a 15 year. I'm thinking they're not going much lower. Should I jump on this (thinking 15)?

Points/closing costs?
Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan:

Discount Points $162.50 0.125%

Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%

Recording Fee $102.00

Application Fee* $395.00

Settlement Fee $270.00

Title Company Courier Fee $25.00

Lenders Title Insurance $575.00

Tax Service Fee $72.00

Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50

There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.

I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?
I cut and pasted it. Forgot to include this line which relates to the "application fee" line above:

*Items paid outside of closing. These amounts are not included in the total closing costs.

Do they show the APR? I do not have my mortgage calculator... those costs do not seem way out of line for the rate you are being offered. The rate may go a bit lower but I do not see it going WAY lower. You do not want to get caught trying to catch the bottom. Be it real estate, investments, or mortgage rates. As long as you have the GFE and there are no surprises at this point- I say go for it.
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my 2 cents to this - i am refinancing again (2nd time in 4 months) through Wachovia, as we just completed a remodel and addition - my rate just went down from 5.41 to 5.19 thanks to the feds recent announcement. We are in northern NJ if that makes a difference.

Edited by tarznatz
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Do they show the APR? I do not have my mortgage calculator... those costs do not seem way out of line for the rate you are being offered. The rate may go a bit lower but I do not see it going WAY lower. You do not want to get caught trying to catch the bottom. Be it real estate, investments, or mortgage rates. As long as you have the GFE and there are no surprises at this point- I say go for it.

Interest Rate: 4.875%

APR: 5.039%

I started the process at lunch. Dude took my info over the phone and sent it on to the loan people. They are supposed to call me within 24 hours and then I'll try to lock. Still debating on the 30 year or 15 year options. Basically, if I go 30 year my payment goes down about $150 a month, or if I go with the 15 year option my payment goes up by about the same amount. I can afford either but I kind of like the flexibility of having more cash and just paying more on the mortgage when I'm so inclined.

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My Credit Union dropped to 5.75 today. I have 6.25 with around 25 years to go on my 30yr of $120 and I have a 6.99 on another $20 that I will roll in. You guys think I should wait longer or grab the 5.75. It was 6 two days ago.

Countrywide is at 5.125% for a 30 year with no points.
I would like to use my credit union because they treat me very well. I am wondering though if they are just slow to catch up to everyone else. It seems like that will cost me alot of $ if I take the 5.75 over the 5.25 rates I am seeing. It is also costing me about $3000 to close. How much would I have to pay countrywide to close and other fees?
Cross eyed- Are you sure about that on CW? On their web page they list rate as low as 5.125% but with an APR of 5.42%. That high of an APR suggest points or a huge lender fee.

My loan is costing me about $2,000 to close, with over $900 of that being title insurance. There's $300 processing fee and $200 underwriting fee. The rest is stuff like credit report, lien letters, flood cert., title endorsements, etc.
:excited:

Here is the blurb on their web site:

* The interest rate is based on a 5.125% / 5.42% A.P.R. as of 01/22/2008 and is fixed for the life of the loan. Rate and A.P.R. will vary based on factors such as points, loan amount, loan-to-value, borrower’s credit, property type, and occupancy. Rates and APRs assume A credit quality and that an escrow account is set up for payment of property taxes, hazard insurance, and mortgage insurance if applicable. Rate/APR assumes a loan amount of $200,000, an 80% Loan to value, a lock period of 45 days, 1.75 points and closing costs of $3,300, a maximum loan amount of $200,000 and monthly payments of $1,088. All rates and terms subject to change without notice.

Closing costs may be low if your loan isn't very big, but 1.75 points is a lot. Maybe today (since it says 1/22/2008) is a little lower, but I can't imagine the points are much lower than 1.75.
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My Credit Union today is at 4.875 for a 30 year fixed and 4.375 for a 15 year. I'm thinking they're not going much lower. Should I jump on this (thinking 15)?

Points/closing costs?
Gotta be points. Countrywide is quoting 5.00% on their website too, but it's with 2 points. Called the lady I dealt with and she said that a 0 point loan right now is at 5.375. She's seeing what she can do for me. I locked at 5.625 2 weeks ago.
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My Credit Union dropped to 5.75 today. I have 6.25 with around 25 years to go on my 30yr of $120 and I have a 6.99 on another $20 that I will roll in. You guys think I should wait longer or grab the 5.75. It was 6 two days ago.

Countrywide is at 5.125% for a 30 year with no points.
I would like to use my credit union because they treat me very well. I am wondering though if they are just slow to catch up to everyone else. It seems like that will cost me alot of $ if I take the 5.75 over the 5.25 rates I am seeing. It is also costing me about $3000 to close. How much would I have to pay countrywide to close and other fees?
Cross eyed- Are you sure about that on CW? On their web page they list rate as low as 5.125% but with an APR of 5.42%. That high of an APR suggest points or a huge lender fee.

My loan is costing me about $2,000 to close, with over $900 of that being title insurance. There's $300 processing fee and $200 underwriting fee. The rest is stuff like credit report, lien letters, flood cert., title endorsements, etc.
:thumbup:

Here is the blurb on their web site:

* The interest rate is based on a 5.125% / 5.42% A.P.R. as of 01/22/2008 and is fixed for the life of the loan. Rate and A.P.R. will vary based on factors such as points, loan amount, loan-to-value, borrower’s credit, property type, and occupancy. Rates and APRs assume A credit quality and that an escrow account is set up for payment of property taxes, hazard insurance, and mortgage insurance if applicable. Rate/APR assumes a loan amount of $200,000, an 80% Loan to value, a lock period of 45 days, 1.75 points and closing costs of $3,300, a maximum loan amount of $200,000 and monthly payments of $1,088. All rates and terms subject to change without notice.

Closing costs may be low if your loan isn't very big, but 1.75 points is a lot. Maybe today (since it says 1/22/2008) is a little lower, but I can't imagine the points are much lower than 1.75.
Yeah, the website rate is with points, as I just found out. I'm not paying any points on my loan.
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Heard on a financial show last nite that they predicted the feds to cut another half percent by next week.

Two thoughts...

One is that would be interesting because that puts the Fed in a position of almost being out of bullets to do much more in the future if needed.

Second, I have stated this over and over but the Fed and mortgage rates do not walk hand in hand. The chances of mortgage rates going down is not overwhelming. For instance, June 25, 2003 the Fed Rate was at 1.00 and it is currently at 3.5 but from memory mortgage rates are actually offered lower now than then. In all honesty this is a way for loan officers and brokers to use the news coverage of the Fed to get business from excited customers. It is a good time to look at your options to re-fi if you have a loan over 6% right now because rates are at historically very low levels, I would not get too excited about looking for very much lower- possible of course but not extremely likely.

While I agree that the Fed rate drop is more about short term rates, you aren't quite correct on the 2003 scenario. Go to bankrate.com and look at the 30 year fixed rate over the past 5 years and you see a huge trough in summer of 2003. I refi'd my last house at 4.875% with 0 points on a 30 year fixed that summer. I would love, love, love to see it hit that again as I will refi in a heartbeat since I am at 5.75% now, so 5.5 or 5.375 with closing costs isn't quite worth it yet.
Their graph actually goes to what I am saying. Notice that rates went up to over 6% while the Fed was still at 1.00. Mortgage rates fluctuate and the short term rates helps pressure mortgage rates down but they certainly are not locked into one another and a Fed move does not mean that mortgage rates will go down. It does make it more likely to be sure but the mortgage rates are much more strongly tied into bonds.
Don't worry, I agree with you. My only comment was that rates in 2003 were actually a little better than they are right now. Not by much, but again, I got a 4.875% 30 year fixed for 0 points and I don't think I have seen anything that good yet, although StrikeS2k's APR looks very, very close.
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I hope I have been helpful to some of you but I'm going to have to leave the answers up to some of the other qualified people on this board. I just ran my rates on Bankrate.com and offered the best rates in Texas, GA, CA and Fl and just got swamped. Good luck to you all. If anyone wants a loan in one of the states I mentioned feel free to contact me and I guarantee I can make you a better offer than you will get from any major lending institution or Bankrate.com but I only do loans for people with good credit and right now I only want to handle those 4 states. Let me stress I'm not here to make money as business is not an issue right now but I'll help you if you need it and I'll also be happy to advise those I can if you feel comfortable with a major lender or are in a state I don't want to service.

Thanks for posting all the great info and taking the time to answer questions. It has been very useful info. :confused:
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Do they show the APR? I do not have my mortgage calculator... those costs do not seem way out of line for the rate you are being offered. The rate may go a bit lower but I do not see it going WAY lower. You do not want to get caught trying to catch the bottom. Be it real estate, investments, or mortgage rates. As long as you have the GFE and there are no surprises at this point- I say go for it.

Interest Rate: 4.875%

APR: 5.039%

I started the process at lunch. Dude took my info over the phone and sent it on to the loan people. They are supposed to call me within 24 hours and then I'll try to lock. Still debating on the 30 year or 15 year options. Basically, if I go 30 year my payment goes down about $150 a month, or if I go with the 15 year option my payment goes up by about the same amount. I can afford either but I kind of like the flexibility of having more cash and just paying more on the mortgage when I'm so inclined.

Sounds about right.

If you are planning on being there long term then I would say there is no reason to not move forward. If you were going to move soon etc then there is reason to think more about it just because you have a smaller time frame to make up the cost in doing the re-fi. Over the long run the rate you will get will more than make back the costs you are paying up front to get the lower rate.

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We've just been 'repriced' for the worse today (meaning all investors my company deal with are now purchasing loans from us with a lower yield spread premium), however here in the Philly Tri-State area, on a 30-year 60-day lock we're quoting 5.25% no points (assuming acceptable credit, yadda yadda). Great time to refi no matter what - but like most others have mentioned in here, it's best to just sit down and speak about it with a professional.

Generally speaking, the consultation should be free - and any Mortgage Consultant/Broker should be able to put hard numbers in front of you without charging you anything.

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Heard on a financial show last nite that they predicted the feds to cut another half percent by next week.

Two thoughts...

One is that would be interesting because that puts the Fed in a position of almost being out of bullets to do much more in the future if needed.

Second, I have stated this over and over but the Fed and mortgage rates do not walk hand in hand. The chances of mortgage rates going down is not overwhelming. For instance, June 25, 2003 the Fed Rate was at 1.00 and it is currently at 3.5 but from memory mortgage rates are actually offered lower now than then. In all honesty this is a way for loan officers and brokers to use the news coverage of the Fed to get business from excited customers. It is a good time to look at your options to re-fi if you have a loan over 6% right now because rates are at historically very low levels, I would not get too excited about looking for very much lower- possible of course but not extremely likely.

While I agree that the Fed rate drop is more about short term rates, you aren't quite correct on the 2003 scenario. Go to bankrate.com and look at the 30 year fixed rate over the past 5 years and you see a huge trough in summer of 2003. I refi'd my last house at 4.875% with 0 points on a 30 year fixed that summer. I would love, love, love to see it hit that again as I will refi in a heartbeat since I am at 5.75% now, so 5.5 or 5.375 with closing costs isn't quite worth it yet.
Their graph actually goes to what I am saying. Notice that rates went up to over 6% while the Fed was still at 1.00. Mortgage rates fluctuate and the short term rates helps pressure mortgage rates down but they certainly are not locked into one another and a Fed move does not mean that mortgage rates will go down. It does make it more likely to be sure but the mortgage rates are much more strongly tied into bonds.
Don't worry, I agree with you. My only comment was that rates in 2003 were actually a little better than they are right now. Not by much, but again, I got a 4.875% 30 year fixed for 0 points and I don't think I have seen anything that good yet, although StrikeS2k's APR looks very, very close.
I know. I find it funny when brokers think they know more than me when they believe have bought their own sales pitches.
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Another 3/4 rate cut coming next week? Link

TG, I've been reading through your comments on the housing market in general the past few months, what effect do you think another fed funds cut may have on rates? Just curious regarding your :goodposting:
The mortgage guys would have a much better idea of the effects another fed cut would have on mortgage rates that I would. As many have mentioned before, mortgage rates aren't directly tied to the federal funds overnight rate, so a rate cut doesn't necessarily mean mortgage rates will decrease significantly. It's also important to remember that the market is always ahead of the public, so much of next week's cut is already being priced into today's rates.

With regard to the housing market in San Diego, lower rates will help, but it's too little too late for most people. The spread on jumbo loans is still crazy, and these low rates are only available for those with money down and good credit. Those people weren't the problem in the first place.

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Another 3/4 rate cut coming next week? Link

Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC. :rolleyes:
:goodposting:

If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.

I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.

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Another 3/4 rate cut coming next week? Link

Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC. :bs:
:thumbup:

If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.

I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.

Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?
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I'd love some quick advice as my head is spinning and it sounds like everyone here knows much more about this than I do.

I am 4 years into a 20 yr. mortgage at 5.625%. My wife and I have good/very good credit. We just started a family and our project waterfront property (this isn't a LOOK AT ME reference, just dont know if its important info.) only has two bedrooms, we will need to either buy a second home or do a major additon on this home within the next 10 yrs or so (we really dont want to lose our property as there is very little chance we will be able to afford another one on the water). Our house would easily appraise for 100k more than what we still owe on it. Would it make sense to refinance to a 30 yr. fixed at the full appraised value? We would then pay off some bills and invest the 100k into something (would take suggestions here as well) until we are ready to make a decision and we would be paying a low interest rate on that money we have? The obvious negative is that we are adding the addition 16 years onto our mortgage.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...

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Another 3/4 rate cut coming next week? Link

Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC. :bs:
:shrug:

If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.

I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.

Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?
It can, but it is only a 4 year note, i.e. short term. To put it this way, take 25% and 35% as sample tax deduction savings.

At 6.5% and 0 tax savings, the current car rate is 6.5%.

If the Fed drops another 0.75, my HELOC will be at 4.74%.

At 4.74% and 25% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.555%.

At 4.74% and 35% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.081%.

So, the Fed would have to raise rates between 3-3.4% before the BELOC would be worse. So, given the immediate savings and the fact that I don't see the Fed raising the rates that much anytime soon, I think it would be a good choice.

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I'd love some quick advice as my head is spinning and it sounds like everyone here knows much more about this than I do.

I am 4 years into a 20 yr. mortgage at 5.625%. My wife and I have good/very good credit. We just started a family and our project waterfront property (this isn't a LOOK AT ME reference, just dont know if its important info.) only has two bedrooms, we will need to either buy a second home or do a major additon on this home within the next 10 yrs or so (we really dont want to lose our property as there is very little chance we will be able to afford another one on the water). Our house would easily appraise for 100k more than what we still owe on it. Would it make sense to refinance to a 30 yr. fixed at the full appraised value? We would then pay off some bills and invest the 100k into something (would take suggestions here as well) until we are ready to make a decision and we would be paying a low interest rate on that money we have? The obvious negative is that we are adding the addition 16 years onto our mortgage.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...

If you are talking another 10 years, then I wouldn't take out an extra 100k. Some folks here would say do it and invest the money, yada, yada, yada, but I would say to max out your 401k, etc. first before taking on that much risk.

What I would do in your situation is look at refinancing to pay off the bills, which sound like high interest rate credit cards since other things like car loans and student loans are usually low enough to not think about them in that way. Just as an example, you could do a 15 year fixed, about what you have left on your 20. Aimloan.com (not my recommendation, but a good source for rates) has a 15 year 4.75% with 0 points. Go to bankrate.com and run the numbers and check it out. You may be able to pay off the bills and still have the exact same payment over the next 15 years and provide you with the ability to save enough each month to pay cash for the expansion in 10 years.

Wow, for those looking at Jumbos, man, the spread is huge. Aimloan.com has a 30 year conforming at 5.25% and 0 points and a Jumbo fixed for 6.25% and about half a point. That is 1% more and you have to pay another 0.5 points on top.

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I hope I have been helpful to some of you but I'm going to have to leave the answers up to some of the other qualified people on this board. I just ran my rates on Bankrate.com and offered the best rates in Texas, GA, CA and Fl and just got swamped. Good luck to you all. If anyone wants a loan in one of the states I mentioned feel free to contact me and I guarantee I can make you a better offer than you will get from any major lending institution or Bankrate.com but I only do loans for people with good credit and right now I only want to handle those 4 states. Let me stress I'm not here to make money as business is not an issue right now but I'll help you if you need it and I'll also be happy to advise those I can if you feel comfortable with a major lender or are in a state I don't want to service.

:hifive: Lots of us are thankful for the mortgage discussions on this board.
A buyers market and very low rates.... are you still looking to buy mid 2008?
Still a long way for prices to fall in San Diego. I'm hoping rates remain relatively low for the foreseeable future. I don't want to catch a falling knife b/c of a cheap rate.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

The closing costs are about $2100 (plus appraisal if needed).

Right now I've got

$60K on my mortage (15 year) at 5.375

$35K on a HELOC at 7.25% (variable)

$6K on an auto loan at 2.99%

Can any math types give me an idea if this makes sense?

He says the rates have already gone up but he is able to offer me the lowest rate that they offered today.

Thanks.

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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
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I'd love some quick advice as my head is spinning and it sounds like everyone here knows much more about this than I do.

I am 4 years into a 20 yr. mortgage at 5.625%. My wife and I have good/very good credit. We just started a family and our project waterfront property (this isn't a LOOK AT ME reference, just dont know if its important info.) only has two bedrooms, we will need to either buy a second home or do a major additon on this home within the next 10 yrs or so (we really dont want to lose our property as there is very little chance we will be able to afford another one on the water). Our house would easily appraise for 100k more than what we still owe on it. Would it make sense to refinance to a 30 yr. fixed at the full appraised value? We would then pay off some bills and invest the 100k into something (would take suggestions here as well) until we are ready to make a decision and we would be paying a low interest rate on that money we have? The obvious negative is that we are adding the addition 16 years onto our mortgage.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...

In general it is all going to be about the rates. If the rate you can get is not significantly better than what you have now it will not make sense to do a re-fi on cash out that you do not even need right now. You may want to do a HELOC instead where you can have access to the equity and pay on what you need to use when you need it vs a re-fi. Major factors on that will be things like what rate you can get on a re-fi cash out and it's closing cost vs what rate you can get on a HELOC and knowing that rates may fluctuate up and down (but it is becoming more popular with lenders to have rate lock in options with their HELOC's). Further, you have more flexability moving forward. If you are talking with a good lender or broker they can walk you through all these different options and run the numbers (but not all do and brokers tend to not look at all the options because a lot of them do not or can not do stand alone Equities).

I have no problem giving my advice for free to you or anyone on specifics. I have done this for a few FBG's already. Feel free to PM me with more detailed info and a one on one discussion. I will do my best to help you. As for my background- I have 10 years of banking experiance.

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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.The closing costs are about $2100 (plus appraisal if needed).Right now I've got $60K on my mortage (15 year) at 5.375$35K on a HELOC at 7.25% (variable)$6K on an auto loan at 2.99%Can any math types give me an idea if this makes sense? He says the rates have already gone up but he is able to offer me the lowest rate that they offered today.Thanks.

The CW guy is right, rates went up sharply this afternoon and I've got to tell you I'm surprised you can still get a 4.875% with no points from Countrywide.Hard to tell you for sure if you should do it. The blended overall rate if you roll these loans into one is 5.88% so you have the chance to lower the overall rate a point. Why are you putting the auto loan into the loan and converting a lower rate loan into a higher rate loan? Is it payment? If so and payment is your issue I'd just throw out all the break even analysis and see what payment you feel most comfortable with. But since you are wanting a 15 year mortgage I'm inclined to think payment is not your hot button.I took at it from this angle. Those 3 loan at a 5.88% paid out over 15 years would be $152,100. If you refinanced and added $2100 to cover the closing costs so that you are refinancing $103,100 you would pay $145,440 over the life of the loan. But what I don't know is how much time you still have on some of these payments. What I would recommend is calculating the amount of money you will pay before these loans are satisfied and weigh that versus what you pay over the lifetime of the new loan. At least this is how I would look at it if my goal was not monthly payments but saving on interest.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
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Another 3/4 rate cut coming next week? Link

Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC. :cry:
:mellow:

If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.

I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.

Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?
It can, but it is only a 4 year note, i.e. short term. To put it this way, take 25% and 35% as sample tax deduction savings.

At 6.5% and 0 tax savings, the current car rate is 6.5%.

If the Fed drops another 0.75, my HELOC will be at 4.74%.

At 4.74% and 25% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.555%.

At 4.74% and 35% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.081%.

So, the Fed would have to raise rates between 3-3.4% before the BELOC would be worse. So, given the immediate savings and the fact that I don't see the Fed raising the rates that much anytime soon, I think it would be a good choice.

Plus as another positive for food for thought.... under normal circumstances the Fed usually raises rates in 25bps chunks rather than big jumps like we saw recently go down. By all means they can jump it up higher faster but they usually do not.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
Yep and they did go down.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.The closing costs are about $2100 (plus appraisal if needed).Right now I've got $60K on my mortage (15 year) at 5.375$35K on a HELOC at 7.25% (variable)$6K on an auto loan at 2.99%Can any math types give me an idea if this makes sense? He says the rates have already gone up but he is able to offer me the lowest rate that they offered today.Thanks.

I don't have my mortgage calculator so without running numbers.....Auto loan.... no reason to add that in. 2.99% even with the tax break is going to be better than 4.875. Only reason why you would want to is if this helps free up cash flow and that is something you really need. Since it is such a good rate, I do not see why there would be no reason to add the HELOC in the re-fi. Figure another $400 (conservative) in appraisal... so, from there it is just a question of your break even point on that $98K in interest savings. If you are not planning on moving any time soon then I say lock in and move ahead.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
Yep and they did go down.
So in your opinion are rates headed up or do you think they will make another down turn?
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
Yep and they did go down.
Please explain.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.The closing costs are about $2100 (plus appraisal if needed).Right now I've got $60K on my mortage (15 year) at 5.375$35K on a HELOC at 7.25% (variable)$6K on an auto loan at 2.99%Can any math types give me an idea if this makes sense? He says the rates have already gone up but he is able to offer me the lowest rate that they offered today.Thanks.

The CW guy is right, rates went up sharply this afternoon and I've got to tell you I'm surprised you can still get a 4.875% with no points from Countrywide.Hard to tell you for sure if you should do it. The blended overall rate if you roll these loans into one is 5.88% so you have the chance to lower the overall rate a point. Why are you putting the auto loan into the loan and converting a lower rate loan into a higher rate loan? Is it payment? If so and payment is your issue I'd just throw out all the break even analysis and see what payment you feel most comfortable with. But since you are wanting a 15 year mortgage I'm inclined to think payment is not your hot button.I took at it from this angle. Those 3 loan at a 5.88% paid out over 15 years would be $152,100. If you refinanced and added $2100 to cover the closing costs so that you are refinancing $103,100 you would pay $145,440 over the life of the loan. But what I don't know is how much time you still have on some of these payments. What I would recommend is calculating the amount of money you will pay before these loans are satisfied and weigh that versus what you pay over the lifetime of the new loan. At least this is how I would look at it if my goal was not monthly payments but saving on interest.
After talking to my wife, we went ahead and locked. Even if we don't go through with it, we're only out the $35 for the credit report and $370 for an appraisal (if we get that far in the process). I couldn't get my brain around how to figure out the interest savings, just to know what the "break even" date would be for the interest savings.I think we've got around 10 years left on the original 15 year mortgage at 5.375 (original amount was $89K, and it is down to $60K now).At the clip we've been paying ($1K/mo), I think the $35K on the HELOC would take about 4 years to pay off - but that is a little questionable. The car is $450/mo, with a maturity in March of '09, I think.Anyway, it is a bit about the payment, since we currently pay $1K/mo on the mortgage w/taxes & insurance rolled in, $1K on the HELOC, and $450/mo on the car. With the refi, that amount goes down to about a little less than $1,100 - with taxes & insurance rolled in, so it will make it easier for us to sock away some $$ to invest, which I would like to start to do more of.I would still like to be able to figure out how long it would take me to recoup the $2100 from savings in interest, but I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the answer.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
Yep and they did go down.
You're obfuscating here.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
:lmao:

I chatted with my guy this afternoon and he said in the morning he could have gotten my 5.125 with 0 points, but that it was 5.5 when we talked. Needless to say, I was a bit miffed that I didn't hear back till too late, but I would have had to turn it around too quick and I would have wanted to think about it a little.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.

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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.The closing costs are about $2100 (plus appraisal if needed).Right now I've got $60K on my mortage (15 year) at 5.375$35K on a HELOC at 7.25% (variable)$6K on an auto loan at 2.99%Can any math types give me an idea if this makes sense? He says the rates have already gone up but he is able to offer me the lowest rate that they offered today.Thanks.

I don't have my mortgage calculator so without running numbers.....Auto loan.... no reason to add that in. 2.99% even with the tax break is going to be better than 4.875. Only reason why you would want to is if this helps free up cash flow and that is something you really need. Since it is such a good rate, I do not see why there would be no reason to add the HELOC in the re-fi. Figure another $400 (conservative) in appraisal... so, from there it is just a question of your break even point on that $98K in interest savings. If you are not planning on moving any time soon then I say lock in and move ahead.
I'm going to have to figure out if I want to put that auto in there or not. Also, I may have to move away from the escrow for the taxes & insurance & just start to pay that stuff as it comes due. We don't need the extra cash flow, but it would be nice to bump up the amount of $$ we have to save/invest.Thanks for the input. :lmao:
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
:lmao:

I chatted with my guy this afternoon and he said in the morning he could have gotten my 5.125 with 0 points, but that it was 5.5 when we talked. Needless to say, I was a bit miffed that I didn't hear back till too late, but I would have had to turn it around too quick and I would have wanted to think about it a little.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.

Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis. Edited by dickey moe
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :lmao: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :lmao:
Yep and they did go down.
Please explain.
What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
:lmao:

I chatted with my guy this afternoon and he said in the morning he could have gotten my 5.125 with 0 points, but that it was 5.5 when we talked. Needless to say, I was a bit miffed that I didn't hear back till too late, but I would have had to turn it around too quick and I would have wanted to think about it a little.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.

Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis.
No, half a point increases are not typical. I saw jumbo rates go up over a point in one day in August this year but that was due to a secondary market issue.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
:lmao:

I chatted with my guy this afternoon and he said in the morning he could have gotten my 5.125 with 0 points, but that it was 5.5 when we talked. Needless to say, I was a bit miffed that I didn't hear back till too late, but I would have had to turn it around too quick and I would have wanted to think about it a little.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.

Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis.
This was a 0.375 swing and to be honest, I didn't realize that things were repriced during the day, probably because they don't move that much.

Now, that said, based on the fact that the Dow was down 3.7% at one point today and ended up 2.5%, I could easily see the swing out of bonds (driving yields up) happening just as fast.

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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :mellow: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :thumbdown:
Yep and they did go down.
You're obfuscating here.
Props on the vocab! I had to look it up. :lmao:
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :mellow: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :thumbdown:
Yep and they did go down.
Please explain.
What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.
Whether it is this or Flagstaff being the 5-7th largest bank you are a slippery sucker. You do your broker brethren proud.
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Just got off the phone with a guy at Countrywide. 4.875% 15 yr fixed, no points. He said it was going up to 5.375 for the same 15 year tomorrow.

Thanks.

You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Wait... weren't you :boxing: with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? :confused:
Yep and they did go down.
Please explain.
What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.
Whether it is this or Flagstaff being the 5-7th largest bank you are a slippery sucker. You do your broker brethren proud.
I've not brokered a loan out in a few years. I'm a mortgage banker. Not that there is anything wrong with brokers. Sorry you feel brokers are slippery because you can't cut it as one which probably explains why you are trying to land a job in retail at Wells Fargo when everyone in the business knows the only people who take those jobs are people who are new to the business or just can't cut it on their own like a broker or banker so they need a job that provides them leads and a salary.

And it's Flagstar. Flagstaff is a city in Arizona which probably explains why you could not locate them as top lender.

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