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Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan
iscount Points $162.50 0.125%Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%Recording Fee $102.00Application Fee* $395.00Settlement Fee $270.00Title Company Courier Fee $25.00Lenders Title Insurance $575.00Tax Service Fee $72.00Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.
This is true but what is also true is that your chances of getting screwed over sky rocket as well. Further, brokers tend to not give good overall advice because all they care about is getting the mortgage business. A banker usually is looking to cross sale you into other products and services while also being heavily regulated in ways that brokers currently are not. The good news is that a lot of the 'bad' brokers are already out of business now because the 'easy' money is gone and they have very few repeat business but the bad news is that there are plenty of 'bad' ones still out there.
I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan
Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%
Recording Fee $102.00
Application Fee* $395.00
Settlement Fee $270.00
Title Company Courier Fee $25.00
Lenders Title Insurance $575.00
Tax Service Fee $72.00
Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50
There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.
I cut and pasted it. Forgot to include this line which relates to the "application fee" line above:*Items paid outside of closing. These amounts are not included in the total closing costs.I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan
Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%
Recording Fee $102.00
Application Fee* $395.00
Settlement Fee $270.00
Title Company Courier Fee $25.00
Lenders Title Insurance $575.00
Tax Service Fee $72.00
Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50
There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.
A buyers market and very low rates.... are you still looking to buy mid 2008?Lots of us are thankful for the mortgage discussions on this board.
Do they show the APR? I do not have my mortgage calculator... those costs do not seem way out of line for the rate you are being offered. The rate may go a bit lower but I do not see it going WAY lower. You do not want to get caught trying to catch the bottom. Be it real estate, investments, or mortgage rates. As long as you have the GFE and there are no surprises at this point- I say go for it.I cut and pasted it. Forgot to include this line which relates to the "application fee" line above:*Items paid outside of closing. These amounts are not included in the total closing costs.I came up with $2900 in the numbers you gave. What am I missing?Here's a breakdown on the estimated closing costs for the 30 year loan
Origination Fee $1,300.00 1.000%
Recording Fee $102.00
Application Fee* $395.00
Settlement Fee $270.00
Title Company Courier Fee $25.00
Lenders Title Insurance $575.00
Tax Service Fee $72.00
Estimated Closing Costs: $2,506.50
There is another ~900 in prepaids for property taxes and insurance etc which is assume is normal and wouldn't change from lender to lender.
Interest Rate: 4.875% APR: 5.039%
Here is the blurb on their web site:Closing costs may be low if your loan isn't very big, but 1.75 points is a lot. Maybe today (since it says 1/22/2008) is a little lower, but I can't imagine the points are much lower than 1.75.
Gotta be points. Countrywide is quoting 5.00% on their website too, but it's with 2 points. Called the lady I dealt with and she said that a 0 point loan right now is at 5.375. She's seeing what she can do for me. I locked at 5.625 2 weeks ago.
Yeah, the website rate is with points, as I just found out. I'm not paying any points on my loan.Here is the blurb on their web site:
Closing costs may be low if your loan isn't very big, but 1.75 points is a lot. Maybe today (since it says 1/22/2008) is a little lower, but I can't imagine the points are much lower than 1.75.
Don't worry, I agree with you. My only comment was that rates in 2003 were actually a little better than they are right now. Not by much, but again, I got a 4.875% 30 year fixed for 0 points and I don't think I have seen anything that good yet, although StrikeS2k's APR looks very, very close.
Thanks for posting all the great info and taking the time to answer questions. It has been very useful info.
Sounds about right. If you are planning on being there long term then I would say there is no reason to not move forward. If you were going to move soon etc then there is reason to think more about it just because you have a smaller time frame to make up the cost in doing the re-fi. Over the long run the rate you will get will more than make back the costs you are paying up front to get the lower rate.
I know. I find it funny when brokers think they know more than me when they believe have bought their own sales pitches.
TG, I've been reading through your comments on the housing market in general the past few months, what effect do you think another fed funds cut may have on rates? Just curious regarding your
Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC.
The mortgage guys would have a much better idea of the effects another fed cut would have on mortgage rates that I would. As many have mentioned before, mortgage rates aren't directly tied to the federal funds overnight rate, so a rate cut doesn't necessarily mean mortgage rates will decrease significantly. It's also important to remember that the market is always ahead of the public, so much of next week's cut is already being priced into today's rates.With regard to the housing market in San Diego, lower rates will help, but it's too little too late for most people. The spread on jumbo loans is still crazy, and these low rates are only available for those with money down and good credit. Those people weren't the problem in the first place.TG, I've been reading through your comments on the housing market in general the past few months, what effect do you think another fed funds cut may have on rates? Just curious regarding your
Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC.
If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.
Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC.
I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.
It can, but it is only a 4 year note, i.e. short term. To put it this way, take 25% and 35% as sample tax deduction savings.At 6.5% and 0 tax savings, the current car rate is 6.5%.Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC.If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.
I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.
If you are talking another 10 years, then I wouldn't take out an extra 100k. Some folks here would say do it and invest the money, yada, yada, yada, but I would say to max out your 401k, etc. first before taking on that much risk.What I would do in your situation is look at refinancing to pay off the bills, which sound like high interest rate credit cards since other things like car loans and student loans are usually low enough to not think about them in that way. Just as an example, you could do a 15 year fixed, about what you have left on your 20. Aimloan.com (not my recommendation, but a good source for rates) has a 15 year 4.75% with 0 points. Go to bankrate.com and run the numbers and check it out. You may be able to pay off the bills and still have the exact same payment over the next 15 years and provide you with the ability to save enough each month to pay cash for the expansion in 10 years.phowler13 said:
Still a long way for prices to fall in San Diego. I'm hoping rates remain relatively low for the foreseeable future. I don't want to catch a falling knife b/c of a cheap rate.Chadstroma said:A buyers market and very low rates.... are you still looking to buy mid 2008?tommyGunZ said:menobrown said:Lots of us are thankful for the mortgage discussions on this board.
You got a good rate but I gotta call BS on the "you gotta lock in today" remark.
In general it is all going to be about the rates. If the rate you can get is not significantly better than what you have now it will not make sense to do a re-fi on cash out that you do not even need right now. You may want to do a HELOC instead where you can have access to the equity and pay on what you need to use when you need it vs a re-fi. Major factors on that will be things like what rate you can get on a re-fi cash out and it's closing cost vs what rate you can get on a HELOC and knowing that rates may fluctuate up and down (but it is becoming more popular with lenders to have rate lock in options with their HELOC's). Further, you have more flexability moving forward. If you are talking with a good lender or broker they can walk you through all these different options and run the numbers (but not all do and brokers tend to not look at all the options because a lot of them do not or can not do stand alone Equities). I have no problem giving my advice for free to you or anyone on specifics. I have done this for a few FBG's already. Feel free to PM me with more detailed info and a one on one discussion. I will do my best to help you. As for my background- I have 10 years of banking experiance.phowler13 said:
The CW guy is right, rates went up sharply this afternoon and I've got to tell you I'm surprised you can still get a 4.875% with no points from Countrywide.Hard to tell you for sure if you should do it. The blended overall rate if you roll these loans into one is 5.88% so you have the chance to lower the overall rate a point. Why are you putting the auto loan into the loan and converting a lower rate loan into a higher rate loan? Is it payment? If so and payment is your issue I'd just throw out all the break even analysis and see what payment you feel most comfortable with. But since you are wanting a 15 year mortgage I'm inclined to think payment is not your hot button.I took at it from this angle. Those 3 loan at a 5.88% paid out over 15 years would be $152,100. If you refinanced and added $2100 to cover the closing costs so that you are refinancing $103,100 you would pay $145,440 over the life of the loan. But what I don't know is how much time you still have on some of these payments. What I would recommend is calculating the amount of money you will pay before these loans are satisfied and weigh that versus what you pay over the lifetime of the new loan. At least this is how I would look at it if my goal was not monthly payments but saving on interest.
Rates were flying up this afternoon. I'm up about a quarter from this morning.
Plus as another positive for food for thought.... under normal circumstances the Fed usually raises rates in 25bps chunks rather than big jumps like we saw recently go down. By all means they can jump it up higher faster but they usually do not.stbugs said:It can, but it is only a 4 year note, i.e. short term. To put it this way, take 25% and 35% as sample tax deduction savings.At 6.5% and 0 tax savings, the current car rate is 6.5%.shadyridr said:Yeah but cant the HELOC rate go back up at any time?stbugs said:Chadstroma said:Lot's of talk about this. I love it because it means less to pay on my HELOC.tommyGunZ said:
If they do that, I think I will be writing a check to pay off my wife's minivan, which is at 6.5% right now and not tax deductible. My HELOC is prime -1.01 and another 0.75 cut would put it at 4.74% even before the tax benefit. I have to run the numbers, but I would be interested to see how much sooner I could pay it off with the same payment as today.
I also wonder if bond yields will continue to drop and maybe get us to ridiculous levels for 15/30 year fixed rates. I put a call in to a mortgage guy I have used before whose rates in NC/VA have always been as good as anyone else's and usually better. I don't have an awful rate (5.75%) so I want to be blown away before doing anything since the real after tax difference between that and say 5.25, is @ 0.3%, which takes a while to cover closing costs.
If the Fed drops another 0.75, my HELOC will be at 4.74%.
At 4.74% and 25% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.555%.
At 4.74% and 35% tax savings, the current car rate is 3.081%.
So, the Fed would have to raise rates between 3-3.4% before the BELOC would be worse. So, given the immediate savings and the fact that I don't see the Fed raising the rates that much anytime soon, I think it would be a good choice.
Wait... weren't you
with my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down? Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
I don't have my mortgage calculator so without running numbers.....Auto loan.... no reason to add that in. 2.99% even with the tax break is going to be better than 4.875. Only reason why you would want to is if this helps free up cash flow and that is something you really need. Since it is such a good rate, I do not see why there would be no reason to add the HELOC in the re-fi. Figure another $400 (conservative) in appraisal... so, from there it is just a question of your break even point on that $98K in interest savings. If you are not planning on moving any time soon then I say lock in and move ahead.
So in your opinion are rates headed up or do you think they will make another down turn?Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
Please explain.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
After talking to my wife, we went ahead and locked. Even if we don't go through with it, we're only out the $35 for the credit report and $370 for an appraisal (if we get that far in the process). I couldn't get my brain around how to figure out the interest savings, just to know what the "break even" date would be for the interest savings.I think we've got around 10 years left on the original 15 year mortgage at 5.375 (original amount was $89K, and it is down to $60K now).At the clip we've been paying ($1K/mo), I think the $35K on the HELOC would take about 4 years to pay off - but that is a little questionable. The car is $450/mo, with a maturity in March of '09, I think.Anyway, it is a bit about the payment, since we currently pay $1K/mo on the mortgage w/taxes & insurance rolled in, $1K on the HELOC, and $450/mo on the car. With the refi, that amount goes down to about a little less than $1,100 - with taxes & insurance rolled in, so it will make it easier for us to sock away some $$ to invest, which I would like to start to do more of.I would still like to be able to figure out how long it would take me to recoup the $2100 from savings in interest, but I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the answer.
You're obfuscating here.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
I chatted with my guy this afternoon and he said in the morning he could have gotten my 5.125 with 0 points, but that it was 5.5 when we talked. Needless to say, I was a bit miffed that I didn't hear back till too late, but I would have had to turn it around too quick and I would have wanted to think about it a little.
I'm going to have to figure out if I want to put that auto in there or not. Also, I may have to move away from the escrow for the taxes & insurance & just start to pay that stuff as it comes due. We don't need the extra cash flow, but it would be nice to bump up the amount of $$ we have to save/invest.Thanks for the input.
Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.
What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.Please explain.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
No, half a point increases are not typical. I saw jumbo rates go up over a point in one day in August this year but that was due to a secondary market issue.Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.
This was a 0.375 swing and to be honest, I didn't realize that things were repriced during the day, probably because they don't move that much.Now, that said, based on the fact that the Dow was down 3.7% at one point today and ended up 2.5%, I could easily see the swing out of bonds (driving yields up) happening just as fast.Are fluctuations of 0.5 % typical these days? Back when I was getting my condo financed, you'd see daily fluctuations of 1/8 %. I find it hard to believe that rates are changing 0.5% on a day to day basis.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if rates drop down again if the stock market bounce back doesn't last.
Props on the vocab! I had to look it up.You're obfuscating here.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
Whether it is this or Flagstaff being the 5-7th largest bank you are a slippery sucker. You do your broker brethren proud.What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.Please explain.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't you
I've not brokered a loan out in a few years. I'm a mortgage banker. Not that there is anything wrong with brokers. Sorry you feel brokers are slippery because you can't cut it as one which probably explains why you are trying to land a job in retail at Wells Fargo when everyone in the business knows the only people who take those jobs are people who are new to the business or just can't cut it on their own like a broker or banker so they need a job that provides them leads and a salary.And it's Flagstar. Flagstaff is a city in Arizona which probably explains why you could not locate them as top lender.Whether it is this or Flagstaff being the 5-7th largest bank you are a slippery sucker. You do your broker brethren proud.What is there to explain? Rates went down, the market changed and so did rates.Please explain.Yep and they did go down.Wait... weren't youwith my earlier about how the Fed move would mean rates would go down?
