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Jeez, maybe its just me, but those guys you listed above (minus Rice & Jones) have already proven they can be an NFL RB. Why is it so unacceptable to be critical of a rookie's ability? Until he shows us more than straight line speed in an NFL game, I will remain skeptical too, regardless of how many Conference USA college highlight videos you have.
I saw 2 or 3 plays there where he did more than just outrun the defense. He looked good breaking several one arm tackles and poor attempts at tackling where the defender left his feet. I don't think Johnson will see too much of that in the NFL.Look, I like the guy and I'll think he'll make an impact fantasy-wise at some point but not as a prototypical RB. He will be one of the new generation of NFL spread-offense RB's.
It is skeptics who allow players like:Warrick Dunn (for Years)
Very good point. CJ will definitely loosen up the defense around the line which should create Vince with some great opportunities running the ball.
It's really not a bad thing IMO. Just don't be critical on 6 carries in the preseason. As shown above, you can't tell a lot from it.
You're completely missing the point. It's not "taking out his long run" - it's looking at his statistics in context. I'm much more impressed with a 5 yard carry where there is no hole, than a 66 yard carry where there was no defense. That's the point about his run. The bolded players above have already shown themselves successful in the NFL. We're not evaluating whether their college running style will translate to the NFL level. There are still questions about ALL of the rookie RBs...
Your context is preseason. That's good enough to ignore. You're faulting him for his run vs. the poor defense, and you're faulting him for his lesser yardage even though you have know idea what the line looked like, etc (and even if you did there are so many variables in preseason that it doesn't matter anyway.) I really don't get what's going on here.And no, the bolded players are important because, maybe you've missed this the last few times I've posted in the thread, but clearly these runners will not all have the same type of performance come the regular season. That's the point. They had little ypc. They won'thave that ypc starting week 1. Therefore, preseason isn't telling us everything. But for some reason, you like to analyze the stats like its going to mean something. But apparently it only means something to Chris Johnson although you then say his 66 yard run means nothing. Cool.
So. per your rationale, his 66 yard run is meaningless, because it was preseason. Ok, gotcha. Guess the hype should die down now that we're all clear about that.Your context is preseason. That's good enough to ignore. You're faulting him for his run vs. the poor defense, and you're faulting him for his lesser yardage even though you have know idea what the line looked like, etc (and even if you did there are so many variables in preseason that it doesn't matter anyway.) I really don't get what's going on here.
Another good comparison. However I don't see Vince or Tennesee throwing the ball nearly that much. Plus Tennessee has a much better defense so I see more of a ball control, control the clock type gameplan. Of course, we'll have to see how the defense does after losing last year's DE's and Kearse in trouble with the law.Buffaloes said:
How about addressing this statement switz
As I've said multiple times, the run shows his potential but not much more. For more info please refer to numerous training camp talks, etc. for insight into that.So. per your rationale, his 66 yard run is meaningless, because it was preseason. Ok, gotcha. Guess the hype should die down now that we're all clear about that.
I'm not the one comparing the two players in here... but since you ask...1. Very simple, the difference isn't about yards or number of carries. That was my point all along. Jones put moves on people and powered through a tackler for a couple extra yards at the end of one run. He also took a run where he should have been stopped for no gain, and powered it in for 5 yards. He showed versatility in his game, and the ability to make people miss. On the other hand, Johnson didn't show any moves or power, just speed. The questions about Johnson remain unanswered. There are no questions about his speed, it's the other things we need to see him display, like vision, moves, power. We just didn't see that in preseason game one.How about addressing this statement switz
I believe I mentioned this earlier, if not in this thread, then in another; I believe this is true, but also VY's running ability will help CJ3 find space as well. You couldn't find a better partner for each other, they were made in heaven.
CJ runs down hill and that is pretty rare for a smaller faster player. reggie has more "Barry Sanders" type moves, but has not been able to translate that into gaining yards. CJ showed the ability to have forward lean and that was impressiveYeah, you should probably get some fresh air. I tried to offer a little appeaser and some thoughts on Johnson and you just rant about the jokes. Here's why I like thinking CJ could be a better Reggie Bush than Reggie Bush. While Reggie is fast CJ is faster, actually a LOT faster. Which is pretty amazing. While Reggie is a great receiver for an RB with terrific hands and feet for adjusting to the ball, CJ actually played WR for a year and is very well schooled in the position, probably runs better routes and has equal hands. Reggie has great lateral moves, and some of thought that would be a big part of his game. Some are criticizing CJ for not having great agility in his game. As EBF has been navel gazing over BMI, I have been doing the same, more quietly, over jukes and great moves. See, it seems to me my error in evaluating Bush may have been thinking too highly of this quality when in the NFL you just got to mostly forget all that and get on down the field. CJ is more decisive than Reggie. He hits the hole with less hesitation. Reggie sees a lane close and starts dancing. CJ sees that and explodes for the nearest seam anyway. This quality, this lack of dancing, his decisiveness, may in fact make him a better player.I actually liked some of the jokes, but it has deteriorated to the point of stupidity and there is almost no meaningful dialogue going on with regards to the hype surounding Johnson. That is why I stated I'd like to see the thread die. It's 15 pages long and maybe 2-3 pages have good information on them. The BMI tangent took up, what, 7 pages alone. I am not saying BMI is not a useful tool in evaluating talent, but it got ridiculous in here. Thankfully it got it's own thread and that debate has moved on. Every time I see this thread bumped I open it up with great anticipation that some useful information has been provided only to find another lame joke. I am a fool to think the intelligence factor would go up. Shame on me.Witherspoon is an amazing athlete. He is not faster than Chris Johnson. Witherspoon ran 4.33 at Alabama's Pro Day. That's what McFadden ran in cross trainers. Witherspoon might make the team. Chris Johnson is going to be a major contributor.
I'm a big fan of Chris Johnson. Sorry some of you don't like the jokes. This is his Hype Machine according to the thread title and you have to admit some of these "believers" are over the top. Sometimes the prudent thing to do is curb that enthusiasm a little and that's the purpose of the jokes.
I'm a big fan of this kid's potential. I ranked him 4th in this class behind DMac, Stewart, and Mendenhall. There's reason to believe I am too high on him. There's reason to believe he might be a very special talent. There's very little reason to be sure of anything. I said months ago that he is the player I am most interested in seeing play. He was often described as a poor man's Reggie Bush during draft season. I often say that Reggie Bush may be a poor man's Chris Johnson.
I almost wish one of them was white so we could nickname them "ebony and ivory".I believe I mentioned this earlier, if not in this thread, then in another; I believe this is true, but also VY's running ability will help CJ3 find space as well. You couldn't find a better partner for each other, they were made in heaven.
Watch him play......plain as day he is no Norwood...sheesh...fantasy players rely too much on paper....watch the games watch the reps scout the guy from his college days and now you can see him in the pre-season. He is a tough inside runner who runs like a cheetah and has hands as good as top WR's in the league.Norwood could not run between a tackle if his life depended on it. He does not have the natural instincts that Johnson has nor anything close to his strength.Just pass him up....so he can fall to those of us who have scouted the guy inside and out (at least as much as a fan can).CJ3= PPR STUD for years to come.And yes I am obviously heavily invested in the kid....but for good reason. We have a back who will change the course of many football games this season. And he will be a superb RB 2 in PPR. 1700 total yards50 receptions8 TD's
Wow... just wow.
Wow, those numbers look like the same they projected for Travis Henry of Denver last year. This Johnson hype is almost equal to the Henry 07 Hype
Lendale.....I almost wish one of them was white so we could nickname them "ebony and ivory".I believe I mentioned this earlier, if not in this thread, then in another; I believe this is true, but also VY's running ability will help CJ3 find space as well. You couldn't find a better partner for each other, they were made in heaven.
The kid is for real. We will check back at mid season to see where we are at on those projections Switz!
Is this assuming a LenDale injury?
This would have made him rb3 last year. So now CJ is better than ADP, Addai, Portis, Gore, etc.I like the kid, but this is getting unbelievable.Well, if you project his first half of the preseason game, 2464 rush yards, 416 rec. yards, 32 TD's, that would be a conservative estimate.switz said:
LOL.I am just fueling this fire a little more. Adding more legs to the hype.tribecalledjeff said:Todem said:
It is a little overboard...I agree....but if he is the primary back this season and I do believe he will be used everywhere and touch it 18-20 times every week he will have some very very impressive numbers this season. But that projection is his full blown potential in my mind....he is that special of a talent. I would put him with those backs just on talent alone. Will he hit those this year....yeah probably not on second thought.Now he has to prove my faith in him. And I think he is in a great situation. They have a very solid line, a rising star at QB ( (Vince Young is still a nice prospect entering his 3rd year and I think will show great improvement) and they drafted him to be there play maker out of the back field.
Great trade and good posting...take advantage of the hype and dump this guy.
Pretty much agree. Johnson right now, Bradshaw after the Super Bowl, Bush once he declared for the draft, and Turner for 3 straight off-seasons. Sell during the hype and buy back after they are mortal players again.
Let's not confuse what you're reading in this thread with the reality of your typical draft day result. As of August 12th, Johnson had an ADP of RB39, 104th overall. Thats NOT AT ALL overhyped or a sell-high candidate.
Exactly. Great post Jason - it's a rare find if somebody will actually pay a steep price for this guy.
Good point.
The reality of the situation is that Chris Johnson looks very likely to exceed his current ADP, but fall well short of those who see him as a potential RB1 sleeper. To be fair, despite the chortles and gags in this thread, a much smaller number of people see Johnson as a stud than view him as a fantasy afterthought. Right now, there's no way on Earth I wouldn't target Johnson in a PPR league. Getting him in the 10th round is a stone cold joke IMHO.
I don't believe the MJD comparison is correct and MJD is the power back and CJ will not be. The comps to Reggie Bush are much more in line, but they still have very different running styles.I would not expect great production from CJ, but I would expect some long runs for TD's and if you are in a league with bonus' for the length of TD's then CJ has more value. If this guy gets a seam he can take it to the house in a way that seems faster than any other back.
That is pretty funny, maybe they should call them that anyway and let people figure it outLendale.....I almost wish one of them was white so we could nickname them "ebony and ivory".I believe I mentioned this earlier, if not in this thread, then in another; I believe this is true, but also VY's running ability will help CJ3 find space as well. You couldn't find a better partner for each other, they were made in heaven.
How about his ADP since "THE RUN"
AS OF AUGUST 12TH
He asked about Johnson's ADP after "the run" which happened on August 9th. I was pointing out that the cited ADP data is from August 12th, i.e., after "the run."
No more counting stats, RATE stats please! Total carries for those players, percentage of carries that went for 1sts. LT 315 23.8%Westbrook 278 26.3%Addai 261 24.9%Peterson 238 26%Portis 325 18.8%Lewis 298 19.5%White 303 18.8%Mcgahee 294 19.0%Thomas Jones 310 17.7%Fargas 222 23.4%Edge 324 16.0%Lendale white was 6th in carries last year and 7th in first downs. Willie Parker is the only player with >290 carries that didn't make this list, M Lynch had 280 and also didn't make it. % wise he is in the bottom third of this list with a very clear difference between him and the top producers. Hes not a particularly good receiver and doesn't carry the ball for a high YPC, I see Lendale White as being a good goal line/short yardage back but VERY much replaceable for the bulk of his carries.
Let's not forget that Lendale was playing hurt a good portion of last year. Also, let's not forget that even with some very nice play by Chris Brown and Chris Henry last year, White still got all those carries. The point? Fisher likes what White brings to the table. Could Johnson steal some carries? Certainly. But to say White is "VERY much replaceable" for the majority, when he wasn't last year - even when hurt, is a bit if a stretch. IMHO, Johnson is a great handcuff to White and a decent 2nd RB of a possible RBBC (outside of Jax, Pit, Oak, Cinci, Car, NO and Sea). Earlier RB39 as his ADP was listed - and that's about where he belongs given the current facts.
