Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
So you're saying he's in the middle of the pack of the best RBs in the league? Ok, just checking.
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The Chris Johnson Hype machine (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ForWhoForWhat
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baconisgood
Footballguy
No, first hes at the bottom of the pack, 2nd he doesn't ADD anything to these stats. Portis is a good receiver as well as being a bulk runner, Mcgahee a decent receiver. Lendale fits into the catagory of Jamal Lewis last year, the bulk of whose carries could be transferred to another player (or a RBBC) without much loss. The Browns don't currently have anyone sig better than replacement level behind Lewis, the Titans most likely do.
baconisgood
Footballguy
Chris Brown has been an injury waiting to happen his whole career. Chris Henry was so underwhelming as a rookie that they used a 1st round pick on a RB. Neither of these guy's value last year can be considered much more than replacement level. Can Lendale be an effective back? Yes, is he so good that we should pencil him in for another 300 carries when he has talent behind him? I would be cautious in that assessment.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Westbrook 278 26.3%Peterson 238 26%Addai 261 24.9%LT 315 23.8%Fargas 222 23.4%Lewis 298 19.5%Mcgahee 294 19.0%White 303 18.8%Portis 325 18.8%Thomas Jones 310 17.7%Edge 324 16.0%How is he "bottom of the pack"? And what does that mean? Additionally, I enjoy how you conveniently ignore that this is a list of some of the best RBs in the league. Even if Lendale is in the bottom half of "top 10", that would still be good. In other words, this little data exercise tells us absolutely nothing.We'll see if CJ3 is good enough to take over the starting role from Lendale. My guess is "no", though I do expect him to play a significant role in the offense. And yes, I own both players.
shader
Footballguy
the "Hype"? If he had risen to the first 1-3 rounds I could see it.I can get Johnson in any mock draft I want to right now and not feel like I overpaid. Why? Because I haven't studied one set of ADP rankings this year and people are scared to take guys too much earlier than the fancy little charts they have.Despite the 11 pages in this thread, he's still incredibly underrated.
DoubleG
Footballguy
At no point in my post did I suggest White was going to get 300 carries. My only point was that White is not "VERY much replaceable" for the majority of the carries. I could see a situation of a 270/130 split in carries White/Johnson or, if the Titans are as effective running as many think, even 280/160 or some such - but in any case, I still see White getting the "bulk of the carries" and most of the goal line work. It's possible that Johnson's stat lines will resemble those of M.Turner when he'd spell LT - only Johnson will consistently see more carries. I could easily see a stat line for Johnson that looked like: 7/43/0 rushing and 8/68/1 receiving in a "normal" game. While those stats are solid, they certainly don't preclude White from having a line like: 19/94/2 and 4/23/0.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Lendale White is an average RB, IMO. His mediocrity, along with Chris Johnson's outstanding ability, is the reason CJ will have more touches than White. By week 6, I believe Johnson will have cemented himself as the Titan's feature back. If Young can take the next step in his development as a pro QB (which is no given), TEN could have a nice offense despite their lack of a stud WR.
corpcow
Footballguy
Yeah, but the thing that impresses me most is how quick he gets back to full speed. He comes to a complete stop and then takes off faster than everyone else.Wow indeed.I'm psyched to have snagged him at 1.08 earlier this year (to go along with Kevin Smith at 1.04).Buffaloes said:
Gopher State
Footballguy
cj will up the boards big, if he has a monster first half tonight
treat88
Footballguy
The Tenn RB situation reminds me a lot of Denver circa 2002.
Undersized rookie RB with electric moves and game breaking speed overtakes average but proven starting RB to post top tier RB #'s
Johnson vs. White = Portis vs. Gary
I am typically a pretty conservative prognosticator, but I'm buying the CJ hype.
Undersized rookie RB with electric moves and game breaking speed overtakes average but proven starting RB to post top tier RB #'s
Johnson vs. White = Portis vs. Gary
I am typically a pretty conservative prognosticator, but I'm buying the CJ hype.
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Please keep us updated on any more trades that you make.Note that CJ did drop 2 passes and miss a blitz pickup. Let's not forget that he is a rookie and don't annoint him quite yet.
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joefootball
Footballguy
This thread is ridiculous.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
....and this post is top notch.
Football Jones
Footballguy
It's almost to the point I don't want to jinx him, LOL. The sky is the limit for this kid. He's strong, too. An accomplished weightlifter, Johnson benched 315 in high school. Not sure what he can do now, but he's heavier & more mature. CJ is stronger than a lot of similarly-sized RBs.
The Jacket
Footballguy
I'm sure he will. PPR dynasty this dude won that trade in a laugher.
Tyrion
Footballguy
Yeah thanks. I am interested in seeing what his perceived value is.
I own CJ in every dynasty league that I am in and am very high on him, however; did CJ dropping all those easy catches scare anyone else as much as it worried me? I remember reading somewhere (not sure where, sorry) that he had very small hands, and I am wondering if that has something to do with it or if it was just rookie jitters. What do ya'll think?
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
He's supposed to have great hands. I'm writing it off to rookie jitters and learning to adjust to NFL game speed. He'll be fine.
Alex Smith has small hands.
munchkin
Footballguy
From Musiccitymiracles.com:Chris Johnson- I was so sad when he missed the ball on his first kickoff return chance. CJ is an impressive runner. He was very close to breaking another TD run. The one thing he did wrong Friday night was not concentrate on balls thrown to him. It looked like he was looking to run before he caught the ball.He needs to slow down a little bit and let the game come to him. Can't make plays without the ball in his hands. Hard not to be transfixed by the hype surrounding him.
RobMoney
Footballguy
I took Willie Parker over Westbrook last year based partly on the so called "geniuses" of the Shark Pool felating him every chance they got. Last time I'll let this forum have any weight on my drafting again.
Chris Johnson is this years' FWP.
Don't believe the HYPE
Chris Johnson is this years' FWP.
Don't believe the HYPE
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Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
I'd love to see a link to all the posts where FWP was hyped over Westbrook. That's a bit difficult to imagine.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Then why are you here?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...7/august/1.html
Stat of the Week
There's not been a bigger impact rookie in the first two preseason weekends than Tennessee running back Chris Johnson, the first-round pick we all criticized because the Titans had taken running backs high in the previous two drafts. Here are the yards for each of the 14 preseason carries of the lightning-fast Johnson, from East Carolina:
Versus St. Louis: 3, 3, -1, 6, 0, 66.
Versus Oakland: 15, 15, 2, 2, 13, -3, 0, 2.
First 14 NFL carries: 123 yards (8.8 per carry).
Stat of the Week
There's not been a bigger impact rookie in the first two preseason weekends than Tennessee running back Chris Johnson, the first-round pick we all criticized because the Titans had taken running backs high in the previous two drafts. Here are the yards for each of the 14 preseason carries of the lightning-fast Johnson, from East Carolina:
Versus St. Louis: 3, 3, -1, 6, 0, 66.
Versus Oakland: 15, 15, 2, 2, 13, -3, 0, 2.
First 14 NFL carries: 123 yards (8.8 per carry).
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Jedimaster21
Footballguy
Despite his ADP, the hype is reaching ridiculous proportions IMO. I don't think ADP can tell the whole story. In some keeper/dynasty leagues, Chris Johnson is going before Ray Rice and Felix Jones. Someone posted a trade they made involving Johnson for Rice, Chambers, and a 1st next year. Fear and Loathing is encouraging these kind of trades...and he usually knows what he is talking about when it comes to dynasty. One person in every dynasty/keeper league probably has fallen in love with this guy, which means he will either draft him too early or will require way to much in a trade. IMO, Chris Johnson's perceived value is WAY above his actual value (as evidenced by 11 pages of hype right here) and I would touch him right now. He is a very talented player, but will never get enough touches to be more than a #2 fantasy back.
This actually is not a good thing for Johnson. At 5'11" and 197 pounds, he is much too skinny and small to be a feature back. Most feature backs that are around 200 are a few inches shorter and a few pounds heavier. The real concern, however, is what you posted above. If he has worked in the weight room and is very strong, then there isn't much room for growth and weight gain. He has most likely peaked when it comes to gaining muscle mass and strength.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
:(I bet there wouldn't be more than one or two guys that said Parker should be taken over Westbrook.
EBF
Footballguy
Weight room strength doesn't always translate to football strength. FWIW, Reggie Bush benched 225 something like 26 times at his pro day, which makes him roughly as strong as your average OG prospect.
Chris Johnson is a small guy. Looking at him on the NFL football field, you can see that he's pretty severely undersized. I stand by my initial opinion that he'll be a dynamic change of pace back, but probably nothing more.
Chris Johnson is a small guy. Looking at him on the NFL football field, you can see that he's pretty severely undersized. I stand by my initial opinion that he'll be a dynamic change of pace back, but probably nothing more.
lowman2
Footballguy
Question for some of you hardcore veterans. When's the last time you guys saw a guy come out of college and look this explosive in pre-season? I'm not talking stats just how he looks like he can go to the house on every play.Reggie Bush had all the hype and still hasn't shown any of these ability's. If Johnson gets the touches 15 or so a game he will be a big time player in PPR leagues and will out score Reggie Bush. I am thinking Top 15 RB in PPR leagues.
EBF
Footballguy
Lots of guys in the NFL make plays. Ray Rice just had a huge game. Felix Jones has three gains of 15+ yards on something like 10 touches. Josh Morgan is making plays. Michael Turner and Michael Bennett are making plays. What Johnson has done so far in the preseason isn't that exceptional. Yes, he's extremely fast, but we've known that about him all along. I haven't moved him up or down a whole lot in my mind. He's still just a hyper-athletic curiosity whose hybrid game will probably limit his value in non-PPR formats. I agree that he makes an interesting RB2-RB3 in PPR leagues. Top 15 might be a stretch though. He'll have to catch a ton of balls and/or make a lot of big plays to finish that high since he won't get 300+ touches and probably won't be the goal line back.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
Yes and no. Bush has struggled to run the ball so far in his career. His YPC has been low and big plays have been conspicuously absent from his game aside from a couple long catches in his rookie season. At the same time, Bush has averaged 5.75 catches per game, which equates to 92 catches per full 16 game season. To put that in perspective, Chad Johnson and Torry Holt each had 93 catches last year. Reggie is a huge factor in the passing game. I think it's not only possible, but probable that Johnson will have a higher YPC average than Bush did in 2006 and 2007. I'm not sure if his body will hold up to more than 10-12 carries per week though. So what you'll probably see is volatile production that relies heavily on the big play. He'll have weeks of 15 carries for 105 yards and a TD, and weeks of 10 carries for 33 yards and no scores. If he's going to match Reggie's total yardage then he'll probably need a similar amount of targets. Even if he figures prominently into Tennessee's passing attack, I'm not sure we can really expect him to catch 90+ balls. IMO something like 60 catches might be more realistic. It wouldn't be out of the question for Johnson to put up numbers similar to what Bush did as a rookie. That said, I think he's a more volatile player and I don't think he has the potential to ever develop into a featured back, whereas I can still see Bush developing into a Tiki Barber type at some point down the road.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Chris Johnson will have much better yards per carry/catches averages than Reggie Bush. Bush should be killing it in that offense. Why isn't he? He's just doesn't have the vision, instincts, & functional strength it takes to be a good real-time NFL RB. Period. People keep looking for him to turn it around, but I don't see it.
Chris Johnson is simply a better football player. I keep hearing small regarding CJ, but he's 5'11" 200. That's a good-sized human being. And Bush doesn't get dinged for his size at 6'0" 200? LOL. Both are plenty big enough for how they are used. It's just that CJ will actually excel at the pro level, IMO.
BTW, if Bush can do what he's done in FF, Chris Johnson will blow the roof off.
Chris Johnson is simply a better football player. I keep hearing small regarding CJ, but he's 5'11" 200. That's a good-sized human being. And Bush doesn't get dinged for his size at 6'0" 200? LOL. Both are plenty big enough for how they are used. It's just that CJ will actually excel at the pro level, IMO.
BTW, if Bush can do what he's done in FF, Chris Johnson will blow the roof off.
EBF
Footballguy
Bush is actually shorter and heavier than Johnson. He's also just as athletic. If you really don't think he's a good football player then you probably didn't watch him in college. I can't explain why he hasn't been better in the NFL, but I wouldn't stick a fork in him just yet.Chris Johnson will have much better yards per carry/catches averages than Reggie Bush. Bush should be killing it in that offense. Why isn't he? He's just doesn't have the vision, instincts, & functional strength it takes to be a good real-time NFL RB. Period. People keep looking for him to turn it around, but I don't see it. Chris Johnson is simply a better football player. I keep hearing small regarding CJ, but he's 5'11" 200. That's a good-sized human being. And Bush doesn't get dinged for his size at 6'0" 200? LOL. Both are plenty big enough for how they are used. It's just that CJ will actually excel at the pro level, IMO.BTW, if Bush can do what he's done in FF, Chris Johnson will blow the roof off.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I saw CJ play for the first time Friday night, and I'm sold. He looks like the real deal.
That being said, the hype in this thread has reached hyperbolic levels. There was a lot of talk of Chris Johnson vs. Felix Jones earlier in this thread, and personally I have both of these guys ranked about the same in redrafts. They're 2 of the top handcuffs this year. Each of them are going to be the lightning of a 1-2 punch to their team's thunder, White and Barber respectively.
Unless there's an injury to the starter in front of them, however, I don't think either guy is going to be a serviceable RB2 this season, unless you're in an uber deep start 2 rb league. These guys are fantastic handcuffs, but I can only see starting them as a bye week filler in most leagues.
That being said, the hype in this thread has reached hyperbolic levels. There was a lot of talk of Chris Johnson vs. Felix Jones earlier in this thread, and personally I have both of these guys ranked about the same in redrafts. They're 2 of the top handcuffs this year. Each of them are going to be the lightning of a 1-2 punch to their team's thunder, White and Barber respectively.
Unless there's an injury to the starter in front of them, however, I don't think either guy is going to be a serviceable RB2 this season, unless you're in an uber deep start 2 rb league. These guys are fantastic handcuffs, but I can only see starting them as a bye week filler in most leagues.
Football Jones
Footballguy
As far as being shorter & heavier, I was using Bush's listed heigth/weight. Johnson has put on a few pounds of muscle since the combine, as well. His frame will allow for even more muscle weight, but that's neither here nor there. My point is they're very, very close to the same size. Can't ding one without dinging the other. That said, I believe both are big enough, it's just that Bush hasn't played well. I believe most people would attest to that. FF is a different story, which is one reason I like CJ so much. However, if Bush doesn't start playing better, the Saints will eventually find someone else, which is one reason I don't like Bush in dynasty leagues.Anyway, of course I watched Bush in college. He looked good. Big difference in the NFL, tho. Lots of guys are "good" football players in college, but fail in the NFL. Not saying Bush can't pick it up, but I don't see it.Bush is actually shorter and heavier than Johnson. He's also just as athletic. If you really don't think he's a good football player then you probably didn't watch him in college. I can't explain why he hasn't been better in the NFL, but I wouldn't stick a fork in him just yet.Chris Johnson will have much better yards per carry/catches averages than Reggie Bush. Bush should be killing it in that offense. Why isn't he? He's just doesn't have the vision, instincts, & functional strength it takes to be a good real-time NFL RB. Period. People keep looking for him to turn it around, but I don't see it. Chris Johnson is simply a better football player. I keep hearing small regarding CJ, but he's 5'11" 200. That's a good-sized human being. And Bush doesn't get dinged for his size at 6'0" 200? LOL. Both are plenty big enough for how they are used. It's just that CJ will actually excel at the pro level, IMO.BTW, if Bush can do what he's done in FF, Chris Johnson will blow the roof off.
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PahtyTom
Footballguy
I don't see how this means that his hype is reaching ridiculous proportions.
NajehHejan
Footballguy
Agreed. Rice and Felix are not far superior in talent. Situation wise, Rice may have the edge over CJ due to a gimpy McGahee, but CJ is easily better situated than Felix.
baconisgood
Footballguy
I'm not conveniently ignoring anything, this isn't a list of the top backs by first down percentage, its the list of the top backs by TOTAL first downs, converted to their %. The claim was made that Lendale was good at getting first downs because of his total numbers, he looks not nearly as good when going by rate. What is Lendale better at than an average NFL RB? Short yardage/Goaline situations- and you can capture all of that value as a coach by only putting him in those situations, meanwhile CJs value lies in receiving and long bursts making him more valuable in between the 20s.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
...which is often the case with RBs that get less carries...unless of course you believe Turner is better than LT.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Better suited for what...being a 3rd down back?
Football Jones
Footballguy
except that Chris Johnson will have lots of touches
NajehHejan
Footballguy
CJ is better suited to displace Lendale at RB then Felix is to displace Barber.
fun-b
Footballguy
Chris Johnson once used a live rattlesnake as a condom.
Chris Johnson's poop is considered currency in Argentina.
Chris Johnson drives a an ice-cream truck covered in human skulls.
If you put a phonograph needle on Chris Johnson's nipple, it plays Lil' Jon.
Chris Johnson breastfeeds John Madden.
Chris Johnson once split an atom to start a campfire.
Chris Johnson's poop is considered currency in Argentina.
Chris Johnson drives a an ice-cream truck covered in human skulls.
If you put a phonograph needle on Chris Johnson's nipple, it plays Lil' Jon.
Chris Johnson breastfeeds John Madden.
Chris Johnson once split an atom to start a campfire.
Texican
Footballguy
He does not always drink beer. But when he does, he prefers Dos Equis.
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