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The Chris Johnson Hype machine (4 Viewers)

Just started reading F&L's blog post - that FO study is the subject of the article I linked.

 
switz said:
Riffraff said:
FJones - I have a hard time grasping his over-all talent. He played in a gimmick offense, so holes were there for highlights. He goes down pretty easy from all angles (from behind, the sides, or up front). He runs mostly upright and leaves his feet when getting hit (crappy upper body strength probably explains this). He won't have the big holes in the pros, less wide sweeps, and definitely less reverses. Too many trick plays and kick returns for me to gauge him accurately.

CJohnson - more conventional offense helps. He has moves (spin, jump, and a 3rd gear). Too many kick return highlights. He does seem to find a crease in the defense to use his speed. Definitely not a run-you-over type of runner. But I do like that he keeps heading forward instead of dancing. Good receiver as well. Has carried a full workhorse (20+ touches a game average) load at least one year.

Of the two, I like Johnson. Mainly because he has proven he can be a 20 touch guy and because he can make plays happen on his own. I don't find either characteristic with Jones.
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Without any intent to turn this into a Felix vs. Chris Johnson thread, the bolded line above is not accurate at all. Jones rarely left his feet when getting hit, there are numerous highlights where he stays on his feet through contact, even driving the defender for 2-3 yards before going down. If I were to use the phrase "leaves his feet when getting hit" I'd apply it to CJ. :coffee: From this thread it seems like - because they are in some ways similar -people who like CJ want Jones to be bad, and maybe vice versa. For the record, I think both will turn out to have a huge impact for their respective teams. If I could land both in a dynasty league I would.

The only concern I have, is that Johnson I don't think could ever be an every down RB. He's a role player. He'll be exciting to watch, but so are Jerious Norwood and Jerome Harrison. Can Chris Johnson do more than they? Probably if he is used correctly, but that's the issue. He has to be used properly to excel, he's not the guy you can just hand off to and let him make a play.
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We are going to agree to disagree. Chris Johnson is no Jerious Norwood or Jerome Harrison. He is much stronger than Norwood and a much better instinctive runner than Norwood will ever be. Jerome Harrison's problem is not physical....it is mental. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think the kid can ball but missed assignments are killing his opportunities.Chris Johnson will have a better career than Felix Jones for 2 reasons.

1) I think he is a better all around talent...but I think they are pretty close so I agree about Jones's skills..they are very good.

2) The situation though for CJ3 is much much better than Jones who will be behind Marion the Barbarian for years to come.

 
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switz said:
Without any intent to turn this into a Felix vs. Chris Johnson thread, the bolded line above is not accurate at all. Jones rarely left his feet when getting hit, there are numerous highlights where he stays on his feet through contact, even driving the defender for 2-3 yards before going down. If I were to use the phrase "leaves his feet when getting hit" I'd apply it to CJ. :shrug:
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Maybe a bad choice of words on my part or just perspective of the words "leaves his feet."The difference is that Johnson leaves his feet more or less on purpose, he tries to avoid the hit. Jones gets knocked off his own feet.

In the 9 minute youtube video, 7 or so times, Jones' legs end up above waist high during the tackle, he gets taken down so hard his body does mini-flips/tumbles (not sure how to explain it). Not good for staying healthy (NFL guys weigh more when landing on him and they also hit harder). I'm not talking the times he dives either.

And you are right, I'd hate to turn this into one of "those" threads.

switz said:
The only concern I have, is that Johnson I don't think could ever be an every down RB. He's a role player. He'll be exciting to watch, but so are Jerious Norwood and Jerome Harrison. Can Chris Johnson do more than they? Probably if he is used correctly, but that's the issue. He has to be used properly to excel, he's not the guy you can just hand off to and let him make a play.
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Ever? He was an every down back in college. Probably just a poor choice of words (or just add "in the NFL").
 
J R said:
EBF (and others) - have you seen this article on combine stats? In the last paragraph Barnwell talks about McFadden and says this: "Complaints about his weight or body mass index (BMI) being too low can be ignored, since neither has any sort of relationship with NFL success."

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong because I found an article that argues against you. I'm just wondering if you had seen it and/or had a response to that argument.
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I haven't seen it and I disagree with his statement.
 
Riffraff said:
switz said:
Without any intent to turn this into a Felix vs. Chris Johnson thread, the bolded line above is not accurate at all. Jones rarely left his feet when getting hit, there are numerous highlights where he stays on his feet through contact, even driving the defender for 2-3 yards before going down. If I were to use the phrase "leaves his feet when getting hit" I'd apply it to CJ. :shrug:
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Maybe a bad choice of words on my part or just perspective of the words "leaves his feet."The difference is that Johnson leaves his feet more or less on purpose, he tries to avoid the hit. Jones gets knocked off his own feet.

In the 9 minute youtube video, 7 or so times, Jones' legs end up above waist high during the tackle, he gets taken down so hard his body does mini-flips/tumbles (not sure how to explain it). Not good for staying healthy (NFL guys weigh more when landing on him and they also hit harder). I'm not talking the times he dives either.

And you are right, I'd hate to turn this into one of "those" threads.

switz said:
The only concern I have, is that Johnson I don't think could ever be an every down RB. He's a role player. He'll be exciting to watch, but so are Jerious Norwood and Jerome Harrison. Can Chris Johnson do more than they? Probably if he is used correctly, but that's the issue. He has to be used properly to excel, he's not the guy you can just hand off to and let him make a play.
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Ever? He was an every down back in college. Probably just a poor choice of words (or just add "in the NFL").
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:goodposting: I do agree with what you reference in regards to Jones, I commented on it earlier. Loses his balance a bit too often. I think that has to do with his speed, he leans forward when he runs. That may cause problems in the NFL, as far as going down easy... but I don't see the injury concerns based on that.As for the every down back comment, yes, I meant in the NFL. Chris Johnson is 5'11 200. Felix is 5'10 207 (reportedly 212 now). Any questions about Jones durability in the NFL need be even greater with CJ.

I can't wait til the season :)

 
Mendenhall didn't run thru anyone in the first 2 minutes, he broke one leg tackle but certainly didn't drop his shoulder and power through anyone.
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LOL, he literally throws a guy to the ground at 0:05 in on that first video. It's not a clear shot as there are a lot of bodies in the way, but Mendenhall just abuses the guy who tries to tackle him.
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I was looking at the second video not the first one, yes Mendenhall did push through him.
jwinston2 said:
Stewart at 4:31 did the same thing Johnson did, he drop his shoulder and bounced off a tackle. Really you need to come up with a better example than 4:31 if you are going to say there is a difference.
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I don't see Johnson "lowering the shoulder and bouncing off" anyone. If he lowers his should he goes down, but most of the time he tries to spin out of the tackle. As for the Stewart play - look at the direction Stewart is heading before and after contact - it's the SAME direction. Stewart runs completely through the tackle attempt, he doesn't get bounced to the side or anything. Totally unlike Johnson.
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Back this up with video, everytime I see him drop his shoulder he seems to do well. Look at this
Guess we will disagree but cherry picking videos is not hard to do, the only thing that will really decide this is how they play, I however think Chris Johnson may not be more powerful than Mendenhall but he certainly is not weak as you have insinuated.
 
Joe Bryant said:
Ripleys said:
DenverBroncos said:
Ripleys said:
just offered RB Charles, Nelson Jordan, and 1st rounder in 2009 for CJ3 in my PPR dynasty league. Mancrush in full effect. :shrug:
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Man, you're not too bright.
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Then I guess the other owner is as ret@rded as you, because he rejected that offer. :popcorn:
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Don't go here again if you come back.J
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Thanks, Joe. Long overdue for that guy, IMO.
 
omally said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
Thanks, Joe. Long overdue for that guy, IMO.
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Come on man, you just don't like him because you fight with him in ACC threads, and you hate Duke and he is a Duke fan. He isn't that bad.
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That's not true. TDoss is a Duke fan and he and I can get into some good ACC (Duke) disagreements but I like him just fine and his style most of the time.Ripley's always starts the junior high level name calling, flaming, etc... whether it be a Duke thread, football thread, or whatever else. He has a history of it.
 
PantherPower said:
omally said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
Thanks, Joe. Long overdue for that guy, IMO.
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Come on man, you just don't like him because you fight with him in ACC threads, and you hate Duke and he is a Duke fan. He isn't that bad.
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:loco: Wreck is the kind of guy that would cheer for our Olympic team to lose just because K is the coach. :)
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You Duke guys are so sensitive about who likes you and who likes your coach. I'm not much of an Olympics guy to be honest with you and in terms of the basketball team, is there even more than a 1% chance that we'll actually lose a game no matter who coaches? The talent on the USA team is exponentially higher than any other country.
 
Ministry of Pain said:
Henry doesnt have a highlight video as he didnt even play in college. Stupid pick...

Watch this.

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Just sick...we've seen speed, but I'm not sure we have seen the combination of speed, vision, and the ability to get losse in close quarters since...alright I won't go there but there is some of that going on right here. I'm not comparing the two of them but CJ3 looks like the real thing. There is going to be a reason to tune in and watch Titans Football this year.
 
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Buffaloes said:
ForWhoForWhat said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Home run hitter! 66 yards to the house! :shrug:
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Please elaborate. Did he bounce it outside and take off, did he grind it up the middle, break tackles, then put on the burners. Details please!
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Watch the vid...he went up the middle and once he hit the hole, no one was catching him.http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e4d39
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WOW. Thanks for the link. Man, my draft can't come soon enough. I think I'm going to reach for him in my keeper league to make sure he's all mine.
 
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I have had Johnson has RB4 in this rookie class for a long time. I think the Titans, void of playmakers, will do everything possible to get the ball in Johnson's hands.

 
Buffaloes said:
ForWhoForWhat said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Home run hitter! 66 yards to the house! :shrug:
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Please elaborate. Did he bounce it outside and take off, did he grind it up the middle, break tackles, then put on the burners. Details please!
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Watch the vid...he went up the middle and once he hit the hole, no one was catching him.http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e4d39
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Great link.Announcer: "Eric Bassey was the defensive back for the Rams who thought he had an angle, and thought horribly, horribly wrong."

 
Jeff Tefertiller said:
I have had Johnson has RB4 in this rookie class for a long time. I think the Titans, void of playmakers, will do everything possible to get the ball in Johnson's hands.
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I moved him from four to five and back again many times, but I've agreed with 4 for awhile because I was shuffling him with Forte. Their OLs set CJ at 4 the more I thought about it.
 
I think too much energy is wasted on semantics like "every down back", "role player", etc. The game has changed. You don't think of Brian Westbrook as a typical lead back. Chris Johnson is an eerily similar player. For FF purposes, I now call RBs who have starting potential "feature backs" & the rest are "backups".

Brian Westbrook is certainly a feature back & Chris Johnson can be a feature back. Who says he has to run up the middle 10 times a game to be a FF stud? The answer is he doesn't. Johnson really couldn't have landed in a better spot. The kid might be a monster right out of the box (PPR).

 
gambla said:
After this blow up, where will he be drafted now? 6th round?
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Having been mocking about 2 weeks now. Had been able to nab him at around pick #120, then #96, next week?This is a kid I want in my 2 upcoming redrafts and likely will now have to reach. :ptts:
 
Football Jones said:
I think too much energy is wasted on semantics like "every down back", "role player", etc. The game has changed. You don't think of Brian Westbrook as a typical lead back. Chris Johnson is an eerily similar player. For FF purposes, I now call RBs who have starting potential "feature backs" & the rest are "backups". Brian Westbrook is certainly a feature back & Chris Johnson can be a feature back. Who says he has to run up the middle 10 times a game to be a FF stud? The answer is he doesn't. Johnson really couldn't have landed in a better spot. The kid might be a monster right out of the box (PPR).
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I agree with your general argument about roles, but Westbrook and CJ don't have much in common. I keep seeing this comparison and it doesn't hold up at all really. Westbrook is a squatty little dude. Johnson is taller and leaner. That was a nice run that he made tonight though. He hit the hole and flashed that blazing speed. It should be fun to follow his progress this year. He could be one of those home run picks in PPR.
 
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EBF said:
Football Jones said:
I think too much energy is wasted on semantics like "every down back", "role player", etc. The game has changed. You don't think of Brian Westbrook as a typical lead back. Chris Johnson is an eerily similar player. For FF purposes, I now call RBs who have starting potential "feature backs" & the rest are "backups".

Brian Westbrook is certainly a feature back & Chris Johnson can be a feature back. Who says he has to run up the middle 10 times a game to be a FF stud? The answer is he doesn't. Johnson really couldn't have landed in a better spot. The kid might be a monster right out of the box (PPR).
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I agree with your general argument about roles, but Westbrook and CJ don't have much in common. I keep seeing this comparison and it doesn't hold up at all really. Westbrook is a squatty little dude. Johnson is taller and leaner. That was a nice run that he made tonight though. He hit the hole and flashed that blazing speed. It should be fun to follow his progress this year. He could be one of those home run picks in PPR.
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When I say that, I don't mean similar builds (although both are on the small side). I mean similar skill set. I disagree they don't have much in common. I actually think they're very much alike, have similar strengths, & will be used in a similar fashion.
 
MarshallRob said:
Buffaloes said:
ForWhoForWhat said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Home run hitter! 66 yards to the house! :shrug:
Click to expand...
Please elaborate. Did he bounce it outside and take off, did he grind it up the middle, break tackles, then put on the burners. Details please!
Click to expand...
Watch the vid...he went up the middle and once he hit the hole, no one was catching him.http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e4d39
Click to expand...
Great link.Announcer: "Eric Bassey was the defensive back for the Rams who thought he had an angle, and thought horribly, horribly wrong."
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Was he the guy that whiffed at the LOS?Very nice run. Want to see more!

ETA: I looked at the play by play White was in for one series only it seemed. Johnson was up next, perhaps still with the 1st stringers. Re the Ganther TD, interestingly enough Chris Henry had been carrying the whole series until it was a 3rd and 1. After Ganthers TD Henry did not touch the ball again. Looks like they are trying out Ganther as short yardage, and a expected Chris Henry is behind Johnson on the depth chart.

 
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Quotes from this morning's Nashville Tennessean:

"I didn't blink, I saw it,'' tight end Alge Crumpler said. "Everybody else looked like they were running for their lives and he was just so smooth. … I'm anxious to see the replay because it happened so fast.''
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As the big play unfolded, Johnson's popularity with teammates and coaches was clear. Players waved towels as he streaked by several Rams. Offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger grinned and banged knuckles with running backs coach Earnest Byner.

When Johnson reached the sideline he was greeted by a number of veterans, including starting running back LenDale White and linebacker Keith Bulluck.

Chances are the better Johnson plays in the preseason, the more he's going to be on the field on Sundays this fall — in place of White.

White's said he's not worried about that, but is looking forward to a tandem with Johnson like he had with Reggie Bush at Southern Cal.

"I am so impressed. I am ecstatic. I am a fan of football as well as my teammates. How can you not like that?'' White said. "I see a guy that breaks off a 66-yard run and makes it look so easy. … I love it.

"I feel like they did the right thing by drafting him, and the 1-2 punch is definitely there. I am just excited to get this thing going. It's going to be fun.''
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"That's why he's here,'' Coach Jeff Fisher said.

"I'd like to think this is not just an isolated play. I'd like to think we're going to see more of those out of him.''

Johnson said he plans to do more. Before leaving the locker room, he also gave future defenders something to think about.

"I still didn't get up to top speed,'' he said.
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Just a heads up, and this is not to detract from what appears to be a really good player in Chris Johnson, but this was against the Rams. The home of gaping holes and missed tackles.... As a Rams fan, I was sick to my stomach watching our run "Defense" last night. How can one team be consistently so bad in this area of the game (which kills them), year over year over year?

 
ramsfan said:
Just a heads up, and this is not to detract from what appears to be a really good player in Chris Johnson, but this was against the Rams. The home of gaping holes and missed tackles.... As a Rams fan, I was sick to my stomach watching our run "Defense" last night. How can one team be consistently so bad in this area of the game (which kills them), year over year over year?
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Not only that, it was towards the end of the 2nd half, how many starters were still in the lineup on a bad defensive team?Outside of that run for 66 yards, he had 5 carries for like 10 yards.
 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
ramsfan said:
Just a heads up, and this is not to detract from what appears to be a really good player in Chris Johnson, but this was against the Rams. The home of gaping holes and missed tackles.... As a Rams fan, I was sick to my stomach watching our run "Defense" last night. How can one team be consistently so bad in this area of the game (which kills them), year over year over year?
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Not only that, it was towards the end of the 2nd half, how many starters were still in the lineup on a bad defensive team?Outside of that run for 66 yards, he had 5 carries for like 10 yards.
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Actually, he scored with 4:48 left in the 1st half. But let's not quibble over minor details.
 
Banger said:
Henry doesnt have a highlight video as he didnt even play in college. Stupid pick...

Watch this.

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One thing I noticed was that he held the ball in his right hand every play except one kick return and this was true even when he was running left. The pros will cause many fumbles if he has trouble holding in his left hand.His vision and speed along with pretty good balance was impressive though.

 
EBF said:
simey said:
EBF said:
You can have all the speed and moves in the world, but if you can't get yards after contact then your effectiveness will be limited in the NFL. That's why I think people touting Chris Johnson as the next great thing should be cautious. He has a lot of talent and potential, but he's built slight with a very low BMI. IMO he's more of a gadget player than a guy who has the potential to develop into a Westbrook or Tomlinson type of back.
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Johnson is hard to bring down, and it isn't because he is a bruiser, it's because he runs low, and he just keeps on moving. When he gets into a crowd of big tacklers, he is disappears and then he just pops out of the crowd and takes off. He is like houdini. He is good at YAC as well. He wasn't just great at pass catching as a RB, he also lined up as a slot receiver sometimes.
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The only top 30 RB in the league with a lower BMI and a lower weight is Warrick Dunn. Johnson has good leg drive for his size, but he simply isn't built like a starting NFL RB. He will always be in a committee. Whether or not he can flourish in that committee is the real question IMO.
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EBF, I liked both your posts (that I have read so far) regarding Johnson and your concern of his BMI. I also recognize the difference is legs strength of a guy like MJD and Reggie Bush. Do you have the BMI's of all these guys and Westbrook along with Bradshaw of the Giants. Bradshaw appears to be a guy in similar stature.Thanks
 
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