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QB Joe Flacco, IND (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter DenverBroncos
- Start date
duece2626
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Are you forgetting that he is a rookie?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It's pretty unlikely that he's the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. But he doesn't screw up very much and a team can go a long way sometimes with a QB like that.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
What more could you want from a rookie QB? I like him lots, although I thoroughly hate the Ravens 
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
I really wouldnt put Brady into that comment considering how he was on the bench for a few seasons. And was not expected to do anything coming out really.But I would agree Flacco wont be Manning but I wouldnt have expected him to be so in first place. Flacco has a huge arm but its still up for debate on his potential. With this type of team he doesnt have to be brady or manning (obviously).I dont agree with people saying he's not good though.. thats just ridiculous. He goes out and does what the Ravens ask him to.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I'll go the other way. The average QB with that stat line plays much better than Flacco did. He had a gift INT or two dropped, his second biggest play of the game was total luck and an ill advised pass, and he was largely shut down after his one great throw in the first quarter. There wasn't a single Titans fan worried about him for the last three quarters. Part of that blame may belong to the Ravens play calling, but he was far, far from great today.
bcr8f
Footballguy
I don't agree. Against a very good defense he looked poised and made mostly good throws. I think a lot of Titans were nervous.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
What game were you watching, exactly?
The_Man
Footballguy
Chase's Ravens and Flacco hating is moving into the realm of the bizarre. I would be interested to compare Flacco's QB rating to that of all other visiting QBs at Tennessee this year. Sure, Favre's was better, but that might be the only one.I'd also be interested to compare Flacco's QB rating to all other rookies who have won two road games to reach a Conference Championship. Oh, there aren't any others. Well, then let's compare to him all other rookie QBs to win at least one road game. Oh, there aren't any other of those either.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The one where Flacco looked like the second best QB on the field.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Well if we're going to take the quality of the defense into account, his numbers are pretty good. The OP was saying the numbers were bad. But eveyn taking into account the defense, I wasn't impressed with Flacco's performance. He's very lucky his D is so good.
The_Man
Footballguy
Isn't taking the opposing defense into account, a big part of meaningful statistical football analysis? For the record, here are the QB ratings of all visting QBs in Titans games this year.Flacco: 89.4, WinRoethlisberger: 86.6, LossDorsey 49.6, LossFavre, 103.6, WinRodgers, 76.7, LossManning, 77.5, LossFrerrote, 66.6, LossSchaub, 27.8, LossGarrard, 68.2, LossAnd this was a playoff game vs. a team coming off two weeks of rest. Remind me again how unimpressive Flacco is as a rookie. Because to me, it looks like he put up numbers that compare very favorably to pretty much every other QB who played at Tennesee, other than Favre.Oh, but according to Chase, Flacco's 89.4 was weaker than most other QBs who post an 89.4.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Except the OP said "his numbers weren't good today, therefore you need to watch the game to see he was good." Yes, a very big part of meaningful statistical analysis is taking the opposing defense into account. Flacco's performance was much more impressive today than if he did the same thing against the Cardinals.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
As he's developed this year, he reminds me more and more of Ben Roethlisberger. As a Steelers fan, that doesn't make me happy.
Comes into the league on a team with a great defense and a good running game.
Earns the trust of his coaches and teammates gradually as his rookie season progresses.
Isn't asked to win games by himself, but makes enough plays each week that show a lot of promise.
Is probably underappreciated by people who don't watch him every week, because they don't realize HOW many plays he makes or how his arm and mobility sustain drives more often than people realize.
The kid's a rookie. He's solid now, but he's going to be very good as he learns more and has more responsibilities. Roethlisberger hit a wall in his rookie season and faded down the stretch and in the playoffs. Flacco doesn't seem to be hitting a wall, although I don't think he was the reason they won today. He made a few key throws, and that's all he had to do.
Comes into the league on a team with a great defense and a good running game.
Earns the trust of his coaches and teammates gradually as his rookie season progresses.
Isn't asked to win games by himself, but makes enough plays each week that show a lot of promise.
Is probably underappreciated by people who don't watch him every week, because they don't realize HOW many plays he makes or how his arm and mobility sustain drives more often than people realize.
The kid's a rookie. He's solid now, but he's going to be very good as he learns more and has more responsibilities. Roethlisberger hit a wall in his rookie season and faded down the stretch and in the playoffs. Flacco doesn't seem to be hitting a wall, although I don't think he was the reason they won today. He made a few key throws, and that's all he had to do.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
You're getting worse, not better.Let's go stats since you love those.
Who had the better YPA?
The TD pass?
The INT?Let's go qualitative.
Who had the prettier ball in the air?
Who led his team to a game-winning drive in the final minutes?
Who didn't make any costly mistakes all game?
Who added some rushes, pushed the pile and got some yards when they needed either a first down or some room to breathe near their own goal line?I'll hang up and listen.
Jeremy
Footballguy
I haven't watched him very much this year at all, so I can't say really how good he is. But he's getting WAY too much love here. Maybe we're grading him higher because he's a rookie and rookies are supposed to make more mistakes in playoff games.
But I thought today and last week are good examples of why it's so silly to give QBs credit for team wins. They scored 13 points, he completed 11 od 22 passes for only 160 yards. His TD pass to the wide open Mason was underthrown and the other big play was throw into double coverage and should have been intercepted. Last week they won easily, so it's easy to miss that he played pretty poorly.
He may have a very bright future, but he's not the reason they won the last two weeks. But he appears to be very poised, which is a very good quality for a QB to have.
But I thought today and last week are good examples of why it's so silly to give QBs credit for team wins. They scored 13 points, he completed 11 od 22 passes for only 160 yards. His TD pass to the wide open Mason was underthrown and the other big play was throw into double coverage and should have been intercepted. Last week they won easily, so it's easy to miss that he played pretty poorly.
He may have a very bright future, but he's not the reason they won the last two weeks. But he appears to be very poised, which is a very good quality for a QB to have.
Whiplash Inc.
Footballguy
I think he's pretty overhyped. I'd love to see him without that defense and solid O-line. His numbers are nothing special either. He seems to be pretty poised though, I'll give him that (maybe having that defense and O-line has something to do with that?).
stevegamer
Footballguy
Take a look at that game Delhomme put up, maybe you meant "Panthers".
Tecmo
Footballguy
I agree that he's overhyped. Yeah, he's got an arm. He doesn't look like he reads a defense at all. I just don't see him picking apart a D from the 4 or so games I've seen. He has an arm to hit the slants and outs and deep stuff. personally, I don't think he's a starting fantasy QB ever
certificate
Footballguy
This guy could be amazing. Huge arm, and taking care of the ball (better than most rookies). Also throws one of the nicest balls in the NFL, just puts it on guys. Seems to have a good temperment for the job, down to earth guy.
Does he suck right now? As a QB in the championship game, sure. As a rookie, he's awesome.
Does he suck right now? As a QB in the championship game, sure. As a rookie, he's awesome.
certificate
Footballguy
You don't see him picking apart a D? He's a rookie, do you expect him to be Peyton Manning?
Wadsworth
Footballguy
For most of the history of the NFL, rookie QBs almost never played and if they did little to nothing was expected of them. The rookie success of Big Ben, Ryan and a few others recently seems to have drastically changed that expectation. Without doing the research I'd guess that Flacco's rookie numbers are around top 5 in the Super Bowl era(depending on what yard stick you choose) and obviously his team is having great success. The longest playoff run ever for a rookie QB? Seriously, what more do you want? He might not end up great, but so far there's not much to complain about.
doubletrouble
Footballguy
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=451907
someone here thinks he'll be as good as Tom Brady
someone here thinks he'll be as good as Tom Brady
Tecmo
Footballguy
Picking apart a D is too strong of terminology. i just don't see the vision to take what a defense gives him. He just zings it to the outside half the time and throws a serious deep ball the other half. Yeah, I realize he's a rookie but I do expect to see more. Personally, I think Cameron calls a good game for him. I don't see him getting to his 3rd, 4th reads. Matt Ryan does though
bonesman
Footballguy
Agreed.This is the same guy who said MJD would never crack the top 15 after his rookie season.No eye for talent, whatsoever.
munchkin
Footballguy
I agree with this though it is hard to tell watching on TV. He seems to be pretty much a one read QB. But he doesn't make mistakes with that read. He does have really good pocket presence though. On his long throw to Mason that set up the TD he slid nicely away from pressure. He had another throw to Mason that was actually much better only he led him slightly out of bounds. He hasn't been asked to do nearly as much as Ryan was in Atlanta. But you have to give the kid credit for what he has done.Picking apart a D is too strong of terminology. i just don't see the vision to take what a defense gives him. He just zings it to the outside half the time and throws a serious deep ball the other half. Yeah, I realize he's a rookie but I do expect to see more. Personally, I think Cameron calls a good game for him. I don't see him getting to his 3rd, 4th reads. Matt Ryan does though
One thing that surprised me about last night's game was that the O-Line for Baltimore looked pretty solid in pass protection. Either Haynesworth and Vandenbosch were still pretty hobbled or the O-Line is much better than advertised.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Some pretty dumb arguments going on in here. "Let's see what he does without that defense and his O-line... He has a good running game to help him..." The way some of you are talking, it sounds like you want him out there with no blocking and no targets on the field. Just him vs the defense.
He has done everything the Ravens have asked of him, and done it pretty well. He has one of the nicest deep ball passes I have seen. The things he's accomplished as a rookie QB are so much higher than any expectations people had for him, or any rookie QB for that matter.
I agree with The_Man. Chase is making some arguments against Flacco and the Ravens that are just bizzare. Really no other explanation. His credibility on the subject has reached 0. Might as well put him on ignore in any thread discussing the Ravens.
As a Redskins fan living in Baltimore, I've had words with a lot of my friends about Flacco this year. I wasn't a believer and always said I'd rather have Jason Campbell than Flacco. I've changed my stance and admitted I was wrong. I would love to have Flacco on my team.
He has done everything the Ravens have asked of him, and done it pretty well. He has one of the nicest deep ball passes I have seen. The things he's accomplished as a rookie QB are so much higher than any expectations people had for him, or any rookie QB for that matter.
I agree with The_Man. Chase is making some arguments against Flacco and the Ravens that are just bizzare. Really no other explanation. His credibility on the subject has reached 0. Might as well put him on ignore in any thread discussing the Ravens.
As a Redskins fan living in Baltimore, I've had words with a lot of my friends about Flacco this year. I wasn't a believer and always said I'd rather have Jason Campbell than Flacco. I've changed my stance and admitted I was wrong. I would love to have Flacco on my team.
PatrickT
Footballguy
Titans absolutely gift wrapped this game, but doesn't take away what Flacco did. He did what he had to do, when he had to do it. He also got some good help from his receivers, but he still delivered a catchable ball when it counted under pressure. Not sure what more people expect from him. He done good.
Balco
Footballguy
I was just thinking about that play you mentioned. His biggest play is when he threw the ball into double coverage, and two dbs ran into each other trying to get the interception. I didn't see anything great about him today, either. I saw greatness from the Ravens defense, but not from Flacco.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
i totally. agree. i love the guy and he reps UD where i went to school as well. his deep ball is nice. but his biggest plays were OUTSTANDING catches by the wrs. he has the tools to be a good qb. but right now, he is not great. But i have to give him credit for managing the offense in the way he has.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
It's not about expectations. No one is saying he's not living up to expectations. I think we're just saying we're not ready to crown his ### like many seem to be. What he's doing for the Ravens, another 20 QBs in the league could be doing. That's all. It's still really impressive for a rookie, but not impressive for starting NFL QB. Were you impressed with what Dilfer did with Baltimore? Did that make him a star in your eyes?
PatrickT
Footballguy
Whoa there, hoss, all I said was he did what he was expected to do, I'm not trying to crown him as anything except one of the best rookie QBs we've ever seen. I disagree with a comparison to Dilfer as much as I disagree with a comparison to Manning, tho. Personally, I think he has more potential than you seem to, but all I'm trying to say is that he doesn't suck. I agree that today's performance was great, for a rookie, would've been mediocre for a 3-4 year vet.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I've said many times here that I think Flacco has a ton of potential. You agree his performance as an NFL QB today was mediocre. It sounds like we're on the same page.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Bump.You're getting worse, not better.
Let's go stats since you love those.
Who had the better YPA?
The TD pass?
The INT?Let's go qualitative.
Who had the prettier ball in the air?
Who led his team to a game-winning drive in the final minutes?
Who didn't make any costly mistakes all game?
Who added some rushes, pushed the pile and got some yards when they needed either a first down or some room to breathe near their own goal line?I'll hang up and listen.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
His best throw of the game was the TD to Mason.The throw into double-coverage wasn't his best ball or thought, but then again an INT puts the Titans at about their own 10.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Jeff,
If you're impressed with 11 completions by an NFL QB, that's fine. But I don't know why you would rationally think Joe Flacco would win anything if he was on 29 other teams. Flacco threw one great pass early, had one lucky pass late, and that was about it. The Ravens offense was anemic, yesterday. I get that you're a Ravens fan now, but I don't understand why your homerism would choose to think Flacco is awesome instead of the Ravens defense and Derrick Mason are awesome.
Did you think Trent Dilfer was awesome in 2000? He won four playoff games.
If you're impressed with 11 completions by an NFL QB, that's fine. But I don't know why you would rationally think Joe Flacco would win anything if he was on 29 other teams. Flacco threw one great pass early, had one lucky pass late, and that was about it. The Ravens offense was anemic, yesterday. I get that you're a Ravens fan now, but I don't understand why your homerism would choose to think Flacco is awesome instead of the Ravens defense and Derrick Mason are awesome.
Did you think Trent Dilfer was awesome in 2000? He won four playoff games.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Dude, I gave you a strong argument in a bulletized post, using quantitative and qualitative points, that Flacco was the better quarterback yesterday. You said he wasn't and Collins was.Tell me how Flacco was legitimately the second best QB playing yesterday. I don't see any rational argument that could make that case - but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and giving you a chance to explain it.
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The_Man
Footballguy
You still haven't responded to this, so I'll post it again.Ratings of QBs playing at Tennessee this year. Flacco: 89.4, WinRoethlisberger: 86.6, LossDorsey 49.6, LossFavre, 103.6, WinRodgers, 76.7, LossManning, 77.5, LossFrerrote, 66.6, LossSchaub, 27.8, LossGarrard, 68.2, LossDon't you understand that the Titans' defense -- especially at home -- makes most QBs look bad? Thet get great pass rush from their front 4, meaning you have to make hurried throws vs. 7-man coverages. When you compare what Flacco did at Tenn. vs what other actual NFL QBs did this year -- instead of comparing him to some mythical, imaginary standard of how a QB "should" play -- Flacco looks very impressive.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
All of your questions were rhetorical.I had faith in Kerry Collins driving the Titans down the field. I had no faith in Flacco driving the Ravens down the field. Collins easily could have had one TD and Flacco easily could have had multiple TDs; just because a receiver fumbles or a DB drops a ball doesn't mean the QB did a good or bad job.To be fair, I put a bit of the blame on the Ravens OC as well. The play calling was too conservative yesterday, and if the Ravens lost, everyone would be killing that playcalling.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Considering how good Tennessee's defense is, yes, Flacco played pretty well. I thought I made that clear earlier. I don't rank QBs by QB Rating, and I'm not going to get blown away by the 13 points his team scored. His one TD pass was beautiful. Tennessee's pass D is very strong.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think you are severely overestimating 20 QBs in the league.Would Jake Delhomme have been on that list before last night? What about Pennington before last week?Two playoff games and 0 turnovers by Flacco. How many QBs avoid mistakes like that? Not 20, not by a long shot.Flacco isn't throwing 300+ yards and 3 TDs per week, big deal. He is confidently and efficiently running the offense of a team in the AFC championship game. He deserves a ton of credit for that.Everyone talking about how dominating the Ravens D was yesterday didn't watch the same game I did. They were gift wrapped a victory every bit as much as the offense. They forced some nice turnovers but they were getting torched all up and down the field and got lucky enough that Chris Johnson was hurt and didn't play in the second half. The TOs created by the Ravens D were the only three plays they made all game, kind of like the limited number of plays that Flacco made, but for some reason they are all world and Flacco just got lucky. And last I checked, Tennessee has a pretty nice defense too.Give the kid some credit. I am quite certain he has earned it.
Koya
Footballguy
The guy is a rookie that managed to go into Tenn and win - and he was a part of that win, not JUST a "caretaker" - then again, caretaker is pretty good considering the lack of success most QBs have had against Tenn this year.
Don't get the Flacco hate. That throw to Mason? A thing of beauty. The guy has the arm, he has touch, he is able to avoid the sack nice, he is smart, he appears to be a good leader. He has won TWO playoff games, on the road. Oh, and he is a ROOKIE... give him proper due.
Don't get the Flacco hate. That throw to Mason? A thing of beauty. The guy has the arm, he has touch, he is able to avoid the sack nice, he is smart, he appears to be a good leader. He has won TWO playoff games, on the road. Oh, and he is a ROOKIE... give him proper due.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Sorry GB but this only tells me that you should retract your "2nd best QB" comment.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Chase, are you drunk? Who are the "many" here who are trying to "crown his ###"? No one's comparing his performance yesterday to Simms in the '87 SB or some of Montana's playoff gems. And your "I'd like to see what he'd do without his OL & D" comment may well be the silliest single statement by anyone in the history of this board.Here's what Flacco has done: he's put up average to below-average NFL passing numbers for a team that hasn't asked him to do more, he's cut down on mistakes, led his team on a game-winning drive yesterday, and has been the QB for a team that's won 13 games. Can he be great, or even very good statswise? I don't know yet & neither do you. As most Ravens fans have posted over the last several weeks, we've yet to see him bring his team from behind to win and so don't know if he'll be able to do that consistently. "Potential" can be a dangerous word because we tend to project that a player will just keep getting better when he may in fact already be as good as he'll ever be. What some of us here are saying is that we can see signs with Flacco that he could be pretty good.Or let's look at it this way: how many teams do you think wouldn't trade their QB situation for Flacco as he is right now?
