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Craps strategies (1 Viewer)

As an occassional player, I stick to the basics (pass line, back up with odds, either place 6/8 or a couple of come bets w/ odds). But, in an effort to learn other options, I am tapping the gambling prowess of the FFA to see what else is in play out there?

 
unless you plan to become a precision roller, the only thing you can do in gambling is make the bet with the lowest house edge there is and hope for the best.

That would mean playing the don't side and backing it up with the biggest odds you can afford.

2nd best is just playing the pass line and taking the max odds you can afford.

if not, do this:

http://www.dicecoach.com/default.asp

 
unless you plan to become a precision roller, the only thing you can do in gambling is make the bet with the lowest house edge there is and hope for the best.

That would mean playing the don't side and backing it up with the biggest odds you can afford.

2nd best is just playing the pass line and taking the max odds you can afford.

if not, do this:

http://www.dicecoach.com/default.asp
Playing "dont" and giving odds there takes a good amount of money though.The pass/come has ever slightly worse odds, but doenst cost as much up front.

I tried playing a 3-point molly system (one pass line bet and two come line bets all backed with double odds) and lost $500 pretty quick at a $15 table.

 
As an occassional player, I stick to the basics (pass line, back up with odds, either place 6/8 or a couple of come bets w/ odds). But, in an effort to learn other options, I am tapping the gambling prowess of the FFA to see what else is in play out there?
Forget placing the 6/8 bets and just play the come bets with free odds.
 
Stay away from all the junk bets. Always take odds. never take "don't" when you roll, but don't be afraid to bet the "don't" if the roller looks like a loser. You need a big bankroll to play craps because you will likely lose steadily with a very profitable roll mixed in here or there. You might very well lose for an hour straight and then win it all back more when a shooter doesn't crap out for 20 minutes.

 
YES!!!! Love these threads. Here's my issue, I love craps, but at the same time, I'm not the funnest guy to gamble with. I can be kind of a nervous wreck at the table. I really just want to play for ahwile, have a few drinks, and hopefully have a good time.

Here is what I usually do that fits my conservative nature. The biggest thing I need to work on is ramping up when the table gets hot.

1) Do a pass line bet with double odds or whatever you're comfortable with, then I place the 6 and 8 with 2 units each. If one of the place bets hit, then I back them both down to one unit each, if they hit again, I take the place bets off. If they both hit then I'm either even or already ahead regardless of what happens to my pass line bet. I usually start doing this at a table until I see what's going on. It also helps fit my personality of not over exposing my bets or as little as possible.

I have to say, this may not be the most fun way to play, but I rarely lose money on this.

2) Three Point Molly for nervous wrecks. In this I do the standard 3 point Molly, with a pass line, double odds, then two come bets with double odds, but I don't replace the numbers as they hit. Again, hitting one of the numbers makes a quick 7 not as painful. If the table gets going, then I will start replacing the come bets. I was doing this last time in Vegas and was consistently the only one in my group coming out ahead most nights, although got passed up by the more aggressive bettors on the big rolls.

3) Lately, online, I've been doing this thing where I'll go Pass or Don't Pass with double odds depending on what happened previously. So if the shooter 7's out without hitting their pass, I'll go Don't Pass, if they hit a number I'll switch back. you're kind of "chasing the dice" here but I also place one unit on the 6 or 8 and rotate between pressing and collecting all the time as well. When you're on the Don't Pass with the 6 and the 8 placed, you're playing the best odds to "win" but you may just be breaking even if no numbers are hit. I haven't actually done this yet at a casino, but we'll see.

 
unless you plan to become a precision roller, the only thing you can do in gambling is make the bet with the lowest house edge there is and hope for the best.

That would mean playing the don't side and backing it up with the biggest odds you can afford.

2nd best is just playing the pass line and taking the max odds you can afford.

if not, do this:

http://www.dicecoach.com/default.asp
Playing "dont" and giving odds there takes a good amount of money though.The pass/come has ever slightly worse odds, but doenst cost as much up front.

I tried playing a 3-point molly system (one pass line bet and two come line bets all backed with double odds) and lost $500 pretty quick at a $15 table.
Craps is an expensive game when the table is cold.$500 at a $15 table is nothing.

i've lost $500 at a $5 table fast also... if you are playing max odds and things go badly... that's going to happen sometimes.

 
Is there any bet in craps that is neutral EV?
when you put odds behind a pass or don't pass bet, or behind a come or don't come bet.. you are playing the dice at exact odds.that is why the ideal craps situation is one where you can sit at like a $5 table with 10X odds or something.. you can get plenty of money in the middle and only the original $5 bets that go on the pass/come/don't pass/don't come lines are subject to house edge.
 


3) Lately, online,
the only gambling that should be done online is horse/sports wagering and poker - and even poker could be rigged.
No, I hear you, but it's just the free stuff at places like Bodog that I use to try stuff out.
Buy this - it'll be faster and you can try a lot more stuff out.I learned everything I've ever known about casino games from this:

http://www.amazon.com/Hoyle-Casino-2008-OL...7266&sr=1-1

also this site is great:

http://wizardofodds.com/

 
unless you plan to become a precision roller, the only thing you can do in gambling is make the bet with the lowest house edge there is and hope for the best.

That would mean playing the don't side and backing it up with the biggest odds you can afford.

2nd best is just playing the pass line and taking the max odds you can afford.

if not, do this:

http://www.dicecoach.com/default.asp
Playing "dont" and giving odds there takes a good amount of money though.The pass/come has ever slightly worse odds, but doenst cost as much up front.

I tried playing a 3-point molly system (one pass line bet and two come line bets all backed with double odds) and lost $500 pretty quick at a $15 table.
Craps is an expensive game when the table is cold.$500 at a $15 table is nothing.

i've lost $500 at a $5 table fast also... if you are playing max odds and things go badly... that's going to happen sometimes.
I know. I probably needed at least $1000 to play that right. $15 was the lowest I could find though at Caesar's.
 
you cant win at craps unless you are cheating

that being said I love to play

usually just go pass line and come bet until the shooter gets me on every number then rolls a 7

 
you cant win at craps unless you are cheatingthat being said I love to play usually just go pass line and come bet until the shooter gets me on every number then rolls a 7
This is one reason I typically start with placing the 6/8. Drives me nuts when the above happens. Usually, if making come bets, I do two numbers. The truly maddening rolls are when the shooter is rolling every freakin' number but the point and my two come bets :violin:
 
I bet the pass line w/ odds plus a 2 unit place on 6 and 8. Bump any winners until I have 4 units on both, then move to the 5 & 9. When I get 3 units on those, I go back to bumping the 6 & 8 or maybe the 4 & 10. It doesn't really matter much at that point because I'm way playing with the house's money if I make it that far. I think it's only happened a couple times. Also a big fan of exotics bets "for the boys" because it livens the table up.

I'll be shooting dice in Vegas on Wednesday night. Is the Casino Royale still open?

 
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If you have looked around on any craps' sites, you may have seen adds for "The Craps Lesson". Guy was also on A&E at some point on one of their Vegas shows. Here is a take on the strategy this guy promotes as "the smartest way to play":

By now you’ve probably seen the banner ads, You Tube videos, and perhaps the A&E television program featuring The Craps Lesson. In the video you get a glimpse of a Vegas craps “pro” betting a client’s bankroll at the table while his wife and the client cheer after every roll of the dice. Why? Because they are winning on every box number thrown. Oh, and did I mention that the craps “pro” gets half of the client’s winnings? No wonder his wife is excited!

Between the letters endorsing the lesson on the craps pro’s website and the trip reports posted by his students on the Internet it’s pretty easy to lay out the strategy. First off, the required bankroll for the session is $1600. We know both from the A&E video and from Internet trip reports that he starts out betting all the numbers “across” the board, and that the first bet is $160 across including the point. This is a classic “by the book” play. Notice that the required bankroll is ten times the initial wager. This gives the player a shot at winning on at least ten shooters. Unless the table is so cold it will sink the Titanic someone should catch a hand in that time. And if the table is lukewarm and a couple of players catch decent hands the money can roll in quickly.

How quickly? Let’s look at the press strategy, beginning with the Inside numbers. The Craps Lesson strategy calls for the player to “same bet” the first four hits on inside numbers. So if the five, six, eight, or nine roll you rack your winnings until your inside action is “paid for.” In fact, you will have taken $140 off the table so you will only have $20 “at risk” after the first four hits in this game.

At this point the player begins pressing every other hit on the Inside numbers. You press ONLY the number that hits - you do not press in pairs. You might end up with a $300 six and still have $30 on the eight. If so, no problem. The big bets are on the numbers that are rolling.

If your $30 six or eight hit you press that number to $60 and lock up an additional $5. You press every other hit, so the six/eight series would look like this:

$30 hit - lock up $5 - press to $60

$60 hit - lock up $70 - same bet

$60 hit - lock up $10 - press to $120

$120 hit - lock up $140 - same bet

$120 hit - lock up $20 - press to $240

$240 hit - lock up $280 - same bet

$240 hit - lock up $40 - press to $480

$480 hit - lock up $540 - same bet

I have not seen any reports of players getting beyond the $480 level on the six or eight in the Craps Lesson, but if you used the same pattern the next bet would be $960. Full pressure will take the bet to $1020. My preference would be to lock up $420 on the second hit at $480 and go to $600. Then you could press to $1200, $2400, then to $4800 - numbers that keep it simple for payoff purposes.

Now let’s take a look at the press moves on the five and nine. You’ll start out with $25 each on the five and nine, and press every other hit on either number once all of the inside action has been “paid for” by four inside hits.

$25 hit - lock up $10 - press to $50

$50 hit - lock up $70 - same bet

$50 hit - lock up $20 - press to $100

$100 hit - collect $140 - same bet

$100 hit - lock up $40 - press to $200

$200 hit - lock up $80 - press to $400

$400 hit - lock up $160 - press to $800

$800 hit - lock up $320 - press to $1600

Alright, from there you’re just a couple of hits away from table max. The next hit takes you to $3200, then you’re there.

You could hit table max quicker if you took full pressure or power pressed your action. For example, in the five/nine series you could drop $15 on top of the first $35 pay off and take that number straight to $75. The next hit pays $105. Take full pressure to $180 and the next hit pays $252. Go to $250 on the place action and take down $182. At that point you have a $140 profit on just three hits, and you are positioned to press to $500, $1000, and then power press to $2500. My point is, there are plenty of ways to personalize this type of play. And while the strategy is aggressive as is - you can really supercharge it if you don’t mind risking the action.

Now let’s talk about the four and ten press moves. The four and ten area handled differently than the inside numbers in the Craps Lesson. The inside numbers “pay the rent” for the four and ten, and the four and ten put money in the bank. In order to get into a profit-making position quickly the strategy calls for the player to power press the first hit on the four or ten. You’ll have $25 Buy bets on each of the numbers initially. The first hit on either kicks off $50 less the $1 vig. At this point you drop $26 on the layout - $1 for the vig and $25 for the power press. Tell the dealer to “make it look like $100.” On the second hit the number is pressed to $300. On the third hit you take $600 profit and go with the “same bet.” Then, on the fourth hit, you drop $100 plus the vig and power press to $1000. Let’s chart it out:

$25 hit - drop $26 - power press to $100

$100 hit - drop $5 vig - press to $300

$300 hit - drop $15 vig - collect $600

$300 hit - drop $115 - power press to $1000

$1000 hit - drop $100 vig and collect $2000

From this level I’d recommend going to $2500, collecting once and then pressing to $5000 or table max. Note that the vig may vary slightly from casino to casino - and often from dealer to dealer within the same casino. Most will charge $1 for every $20 won, but from time to time you’ll run across a dealer who will charge $1 for every $25 win. Some casinos, like the Santa Ana Star in Albuquerque, don’t charge any vig on the four or ten - a good reason for a Route 66 road trip this summer!

Does the Craps Lesson strategy work? Certainly - when everything gels and a shooter catches a hand. But the odds of winning in a random game are not improved by any betting strategy - regardless of how aggressive or conservative it is.

One player who used this strategy reported getting to the $1000 level on the four or ten twice in about five hours play. Twice he had over $2000 on the table and almost $3000 profit in the rack. But the recurring theme in Craps Lesson trip reports is very familiar. The player just couldn’t “get over the hump” and hit that next big bet.

One player commented that he did not think adding money to the four and ten (power pressing after the first hit) was a good idea unless the table was very hot and you already had a profit racked. I would tend to agree with this comment. My preference on the four and ten would be to start at $25, go to $50, then $100, 250, $500, then $1000. I doubt that you’d ever see me with more than $1000 on the four or ten - probably a profit limiting mind-set - but it is what it is.

How does the strategy play out with one of our better shooters handling the dice? Here’s a series of numbers extracted from one of Dave of San Antonio’s recent posts. We’ll assume he played a $10 Game with a Pass Line wager and 2X odds plus $125 - $130 across - an initial investment of about $160. Since he is setting for the sevens on the Come Out we will not work our action on the Come Out.

Point of 9 established.

PASS - rolled the 9

PROFIT - $40

Point of 8 established

Roll is 6 - Collect $35 - Same Bet

Rolls 5 - Collect $35 - Same Bet

Rolls 10 - Drop $26 and Press to $100

Rolls 5 - Collect $35

Rolls 10 - Drop $15 and Press to $300

Rolls 11 (Do not bet “see a horn - bet a horn!”)

Rolls 11 (Hey! That stuff can’t work!)

Rolls 6 - Collect $35 - Same bet

Rolls 10 - Drop $30 - Collect $600

PASS - rolled the 8 - Collect $38

Come Out - 7 - Collect $10

Come Out - 11 - Collect $10

Come Out - 9 is point

Rolls 10 - Drop $130 - Press to $1000

Rolls 8 - Collect $5 - Press to $60

Rolls 2 craps (Here we go again with the “see a horn - bet a horn” thing!)

Rolls 3 craps (Oops - We missed another)

Rolls 3 craps (Oh! I get it! This is a skilled shooter who is double pitching the V-2 into the three craps. Numbers WILL repeat!)

Rolls 11 (Ridiculous, isn’t it. Four horn numbers in a row. The odds against that are over 1200 to 1. Perhaps what we need is a Five Count Horn method. NOT!)

Rolls 10 - Drop $100 - Collect $2000

Rolls 4 - Drop $26 - Press to $100

Rolls 10 - Drop $100 - Press to $3000

Rolls 4 - Drop $15 - Press to $300

Rolls 8 - Collect $70 - Same bet

Rolls 5 - Collect $15 - Press to $50

Rolls 4 - Drop $30 - Collect $600

Rolls 4 - Drop $130 - Press to $1000

Rolls 5 - Collect $70 - Same bet

Seven Out - Line Down

Okay, I did this on the run so feel free to review the numbers and check my math. My point is not to be accurate to the penny - simply to give you a DI world example of how the strategy can produce. It looks to me like we took about $2400 off the table in that series. Net out the initial line bet, odds, and place action and you’re looking at roughly a $2240 profit for the series. That’s about a 14-1 return on your initial investment. Not bad. Especially since we avoided all of those nasty high-vig prop bets. However, we didn’t get into a strong profit situation until roll number thirteen, when we collected a $600 payoff on the 10.

By the way, when all was said and done we left almost double out winnings on the table for the seven to rake. Considering how rare thirty-plus number hands are, the more conservative among us would probably consider incorporating a regression after a hit at the $1000 level, or simply sticking at that level and riding out the roll.

Before we wrap this article up let’s take a look at a Craps Lesson type strategy starting at a lower level that many of you will be more comfortable with. In this case we’ll start with $64 across including the point. As with the Craps Lesson, we will “same bet” the first four inside hits, then press every other subsequent hit. We’ll press the four and ten more aggressively, going directly from a $10 place to a $30 Buy. On the second hit we power press the number that rolled to $100. On the third hit we lock up our initial investment and press to $250. After that you are off to the races, pressing every other hit to $500, $1000, and $2500.

Let’s chart out the inside numbers first. Here are the press moves once you have scored your four hits and have your action paid for:

$12 hit - six or eight - lock up $2 - press to $24

$10 hit - five or nine - lock up $4 - press to $20

Second hit on any inside number - collect $28

$24 hit on six or eight - drop $2 - press to $54

$20 hit on five or nine - drop $2 - press to $50

Third hit - collect $63 on the six or eight - $70 on the five or nine

$54 hit on six or eight - drop $3 - press to $120

$50 hit on five or nine - press to $120

From this point on it’s relatively easy to run the moves. The six and eight go from $120 to $240 to $480. From there I would consider taking it to $600 and remaining at that level. The five and nine go from $120 to $250 to $500. Remember, it only takes eight to ten inside number hits to get your wagers up to a significant size. It is also very easy leave a large amount of money on the table for the seven to wipe out. Keep that in mind when testing out these aggressive styles of play. And remember - you control the action. You can turn your wagers off or take them down at any time.

 
:

Okay, I did this on the run so feel free to review the numbers and check my math. My point is not to be accurate to the penny - simply to give you a DI world example of how the strategy can produce. It looks to me like we took about $2400 off the table in that series. Net out the initial line bet, odds, and place action and you’re looking at roughly a $2240 profit for the series. That’s about a 14-1 return on your initial investment. Not bad. Especially since we avoided all of those nasty high-vig prop bets. However, we didn’t get into a strong profit situation until roll number thirteen, when we collected a $600 payoff on the 10.

:
...and the odds of not rolling a 7 in 31 rolls?About 1 in 285?

Even after 10 rolls using the fictional situation above of non-7 this strategy is net -$56

-160 Point of 9 established.

-120 PASS - rolled the 9

PROFIT - $40

-120 Point of 8 established

-85 Roll is 6 - Collect $35 - Same Bet

-50 Rolls 5 - Collect $35 - Same Bet

-76 Rolls 10 - Drop $26 and Press to $100

-41 Rolls 5 - Collect $35

-56 Rolls 10 - Drop $15 and Press to $300

Rolls 11 (Do not bet “see a horn - bet a horn!”)

Rolls 11 (Hey! That stuff can’t work!)

Odds of not rolling a 7 ten rolls in a row: about 1 in 6 (about the same odds as rolling a 7 in 1 roll)

 
My favorite strategy is to take $500 to a $5 table with 10X odds. I play $5 on pass and $50 on don't pass, every single roll I play for hours, collecting free drinks and comps. I try to have a good time. I leave when I've got either $0 or $1000, or when I get tired. If I want to leave, but I haven't won or lost much, I'll accelerate the betting for about 15 minutes just so I 've got some "result". I win almost every time...(Small sample size of about 20 sessions). I haven't beaten the game, but I've reduced the house edge to almost coin-flip odds, and I take advantage of the player's only edge: He's allowed to quit while he's ahead. The house is not...

 
Harper's magazine had a good article about the dice throwing technique people a couple months back.

While the odds bets are even-money, you have to do a negative EV bet in order to get those odds, so the short answer is "no, there's no + EV bet"

-QG

 
Harper's magazine had a good article about the dice throwing technique people a couple months back.While the odds bets are even-money, you have to do a negative EV bet in order to get those odds, so the short answer is "no, there's no + EV bet"-QG
Would be an interesting read, but you have to be a Harper's subscriber to get access to archived articles :lmao:
 
What is the house edge on Baccarat compared to craps?

I watch a lot of the high-rolling Chinese gentlemen at Foxwoods, and they stay there for hours backing the banker for big :thumbup: ...

 
I'll be shooting dice in Vegas on Wednesday night. Is the Casino Royale still open?
me too. but i'll be at Bill's
Walked through Bill's last night but ended up with a brief, yet miserable, craps session at O'Sheas. I'll probably do the same tonight, but I hope the results are better.
I won four dollars the second night at O'Sheas. Never saw the beer drinking midget.
 
What is the house edge on Baccarat compared to craps?I watch a lot of the high-rolling Chinese gentlemen at Foxwoods, and they stay there for hours backing the banker for big :thumbup: ...
Wizard of Odds says that Baccarat house edge (just over 1%) is lower than betting the pass line only in craps (1.41%), but higher than pass line + odds (.6% at 2x odds, .47% at 3x odds, etc.)
 
What is the house edge on Baccarat compared to craps?I watch a lot of the high-rolling Chinese gentlemen at Foxwoods, and they stay there for hours backing the banker for big :thumbup: ...
Wizard of Odds says that Baccarat house edge (just over 1%) is lower than betting the pass line only in craps (1.41%), but higher than pass line + odds (.6% at 2x odds, .47% at 3x odds, etc.)
Thank you.
 
I'll be shooting dice in Vegas on Wednesday night. Is the Casino Royale still open?
me too. but i'll be at Bill's
Walked through Bill's last night but ended up with a brief, yet miserable, craps session at O'Sheas. I'll probably do the same tonight, but I hope the results are better.
I won four dollars the second night at O'Sheas. Never saw the beer drinking midget.
i didn't do that great at Bill's last week, but I cleaned up downtown at Binion's. i love playing craps at that place. i think i might stay at the Nugget next time i go.
 
I'll be shooting dice in Vegas on Wednesday night. Is the Casino Royale still open?
me too. but i'll be at Bill's
Walked through Bill's last night but ended up with a brief, yet miserable, craps session at O'Sheas. I'll probably do the same tonight, but I hope the results are better.
I won four dollars the second night at O'Sheas. Never saw the beer drinking midget.
I was there the 29th - the 1st. I saw him all the time :confused:
 
Got smoked in my trip to AC last week. But, hey, I got a free room. Shows how badly they are doing if I am getting free rooms on Saturday night.

If I go during the week, I can upgrade to a suite!

Just couldn't find a good strategy. When laying out come bets, the shooter hit all numbers but mine. When placing 6/8, same deal. Oh well, better luck next time.

Haven't seen much actual strategy discussion, so feel free to add what you use. If sticking to basics, what's your press and/or regression strategy?

 
There's probably a decent strategy as was discussed earlier where you place the 6 and 8, buy the 4 and/or 10 and make a combination of paying out and pressing the 4 & 10 while you keep the 6 and 8 as payouts to pay for your original bets. I think the original strategy was a little too aggressive and laid too much money out on the table.

 
If you have looked around on any craps' sites, you may have seen adds for "The Craps Lesson". Guy was also on A&E at some point on one of their Vegas shows. Here is a take on the strategy this guy promotes as "the smartest way to play": :
I used a modified version of his system last weekend with some success on a 10 table, bought in for $500.~$85 across$25 on the 4 and 10$10-12 on the insideIf a 4 or 10 hit then buy it for $100, if it hits again make the same bet (don't press)I didn't bother pressing any of the inside numbers, I think I would have done better if I took down my 4 or 10 bet (or broke it down to $25) after it hits w/ $100 on it, having a 4 or 10 hit 3 times before a 7 is pretty rare.Also after a number is made, do you leave all of your pressed bets up or do you break them all down for the new point? I had to walk away after 3 consecutive 7-outs, felt like I was throwing ~$100 away each time.
 
question. let's say your on a $5 minimum table and that's your bet on the pass line. odds are 3X, 4X, 5X. the point becomes 6 or 8. you can increase your original $5 pass line bet, correct? say go to $15 and then $75 odds? i thought you could always add more to your pass line bet, but not take any down. is that right?

 
So I played craps for the first time in vegas w the wife a few weeks past. Im heckling the hell outta every roller attempting to make up witty names about how they look or their clothing. Everyone's loving it because they continue to hit. We are all doing pretty well and the dice come my way. After my come out roll of a 9, I get all gawky and

JAA: OK peoples, tell me the roll you want, name it

table: hard 8, hard 8

JAA: Fine, hard 8 it is

..... rolls

Boxman: Hard eight

table: cheers

JAA: Why didnt I bet hard 8?

I paid those ####ers out 10-1

 
question. let's say your on a $5 minimum table and that's your bet on the pass line. odds are 3X, 4X, 5X. the point becomes 6 or 8. you can increase your original $5 pass line bet, correct? say go to $15 and then $75 odds? i thought you could always add more to your pass line bet, but not take any down. is that right?
yes
 
question. let's say your on a $5 minimum table and that's your bet on the pass line. odds are 3X, 4X, 5X. the point becomes 6 or 8. you can increase your original $5 pass line bet, correct? say go to $15 and then $75 odds? i thought you could always add more to your pass line bet, but not take any down. is that right?
yes
thanks. seems like if you've got the roll, that would make sense, since 6 and 8 have the lowest house edge. maybe stay with a 5/15 bet if the point was 4 or 10, 10/40 if the point is 5 or 9, and 15/75 for 6 and 8. i might try that when i'm out there over labor day.
 
question. let's say your on a $5 minimum table and that's your bet on the pass line. odds are 3X, 4X, 5X. the point becomes 6 or 8. you can increase your original $5 pass line bet, correct? say go to $15 and then $75 odds? i thought you could always add more to your pass line bet, but not take any down. is that right?
correct...
 

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