Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
That's what I originally thought as well. Part of me thinks Gus doesn't know these guys and had the meeting to squash this now so it doesn't turn into a war....other part thinks he gave Walt permission to wack the low level street dealers so Jesse won't mess up the bigger picture.Great effing episode. Big fan of the cleaner/PI.
He was great in Beverly Hills Cop."Well, cuz..."Major said:
Disagree completely. The story arc, to me, is awesome. Walt is becoming more and more irreparably lost as time passes. The illusion of family is all he has left. He's a drug dealer, a liar, a man that endangers those around him, and now a murderer. He's completely unredeemable and he (the best part is) he finally fully grasps it. On the flip side, Jessie, the piece of scum for so long, is the one that might escape all of this for a normal life. He has showed a conscience and an understanding of what impact he is having on the world around him. I think that the kid was killed on Gus's orders. I think that Jessie was going to kill them because he thought the dealers had killed the kid on their own. I think Walt went to help not only to protect Jessie and out of guilt, but because he realizes that Gus is evil and he won't be complicit in Gus's mercilessness.Looking forward to next week for sure.
remember, Walt was a murderer halfway through season 1 -- the guy in the basement neck-locked to the pole.
We also have the guys he gassed in the camper. he was willing to recklessly endanger lives with his fulminated mercury. And of course he failed to rescue jane, which, while not murder certainly shows a depraved heart.Oh, and the fly. He certainly went after that in a calculated manner.
Right. I guess what I meant was that WAlt had tried to "get out", to get back with his family, to return to some normalcy. Now he seems to be fully aware with the fact that he is all-in. I think the preview of him with the Heisenberg hat on shows that he's finally going to quit acting like he's some servant to bad circumstances but rather a willing participant in all of this. He's going to get in the mix to take control of the situation for himself which is a distant change from when he almost drove his car in to oncoming traffic.
The problem is that pollos needs Walt to cook, and Walt has been steadfast in his support of Jesse. Remember when pollos says to Jesse that he only has 1 friend in the room and he inferred that Jesse would be dead if it wasn't for his friend. The only reason those 2 low level guys were in the room with him is because pollos wants to get rid of Jesse. So he had the thugs kill the kid, in order to provoke Jesse so they could take him out. That's how he planned on solving the "Jesse problem." Unfortuanately, Walt foiled that plan. Pollos is going to be pissed.Nice to have great back-to-back episodes after the awful fly episode.
I don't think so. That's not how Gus operates - he didn't have the dealers kill the kid to bait Jessie. If he wanted Jesse dead he would have simply killed him. I think that he meant what he said, "no more kids" as mules. Then, to clean up the evidence of the past, he had the dealers kill the kid.
Once Pollos made the decision, the kid became a loose end that had to be dealt with. Probably something Walt should take notice of.
Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.Once Pollos made the decision, the kid became a loose end that had to be dealt with. Probably something Walt should take notice of.
Then WTH would Gus have the 2 low level guys in the same room as him? To simply try and settle the beef Jesse had with them? That seems way too reckless and isn't Gus' m.o., imo.
Exactly. The only reason he says "No kids" is because he quickly determines that's part of the reason Jesse is so upset. If Gus actually wanted to appease Jesse, then the kid wouldn't have been killed. He clearly tried to provoke him.Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.Once Pollos made the decision, the kid became a loose end that had to be dealt with. Probably something Walt should take notice of.
Missing the point. Once Walt is no longer useful, he's dead just like the kid.Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.
I don't think he was provoking him. I think Gus was making the statement that he is in charge. (By the way, I think He said, "no MORE kids.")Exactly. The only reason he says "No kids" is because he quickly determines that's part of the reason Jesse is so upset. If Gus actually wanted to appease Jesse, then the kid wouldn't have been killed. He clearly tried to provoke him.Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.
I don't think killing the kid was a setup to kill Jesse. He could have Jesse killed without having to first kill a child. Perhaps Pollo's men weren't even involved with the killing of the kid. Why would they have bothered with the whole dog and pony show at Pollo's trailer? They could have killed off Jesse right then. I don't think Pollo's is in the business of killing kids especially since he "respects" Walt and knows Walt is a family man.As to why Walt would protect Jesse the way he does. There must be some reason other than what we are seeing. Walt's trying to do good by his family but keeps putting all the work he's done in jeopardy by letting this wild card in his world all the time.
We all know this. I'm speaking current time. Walt is the main ingredient in Gus' operation.Missing the point. Once Walt is no longer useful, he's dead just like the kid.Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.
What does this have to do with what I said?We all know this. I'm speaking current time. Walt is the main ingredient in Gus' operation.Missing the point. Once Walt is no longer useful, he's dead just like the kid.Yeah, but if he kills Jesse he loses Walt. Gus likes Walt. He trusts him and is the only reason he can cut out the Mexican cartels. I thought this might be a way to get Jesse out of the business (i.e. on the run) w/o killing him i.e. alienating Walt. Long shot given Gus' business/no loose ends approach but still a possibility. Knowing the PI, they'd be trailing Jesse very carefully after the sit down and not allow this to happen.
IMO, Gus authorized the kill on Tomas so that Jessie would think the dealers did it and the dealers would think Jessie did it.
I'm not sure Gus did authorize the killing. And I'm not sure the dealers did it to provoke Jesse. A theme throughout the show is unintended consequences.
I'm thinking Walt Jr. pulled the hit. He's going to end up being the Keyser Söze of the operation.
What a second, did windy see walt kill those 2 dudes?
Not as far as we know.
First thing I thought when I saw Jessie's reaction to the killing was that he was being framed, who better to do that then Gus and his right hand man (what's his name?)?
Hopefully she didn't forget and actually eat the burger after a meth binge.
Setting up Walt and Hank to have a SERIOUS showdown next season...
She is more money against a running down shot clock than is Kobe. She was cool, kept her head, didn't rush. You could tell it was not her first rodeo.
My question then is ...why would they shoot the kid in a playground and leave the body ? Because it would make the evening news and Jesse would see it ...and hopefully flip out and go after the dealers...which he did ...and they seemed pretty ready for him as he was walking towards him...it was definitely a set up move to kill Jesse in a gun fight.Christo said:
yeah, I'm starting to think this way as well....too many variables for Gus to orchestrate this. Here's to hoping they show the The Cleaner/PI's reaction as he watches Walt mow down those fools in that sweet ride.
The plot is just getting ridiculous at this point. As I said before Gus would have just killed Walt and Jessie by now. I'm sure if he really needed to he could find a chemist that could replicate the same meth. And even if not a similarly good product. Jessie standing up to him and getting out of line, people don't put up with that crap. He's been a loose end for far too long.
Maybe Windy saw the kid when she got out of the car with Jesse, got scared he would put 2&2 together, and killed him to keep from being ratted out.
This also has me concerned and questioning whether or not Walt's killing of the drug dealers was out of character, unbelievable, or not.
Walt is irrational. At least that's what everyone was saying about his behavior in the dreadful fly episode.If Walt was rational, he never would of gotten Jesse involved in the super lab, let alone get to the point where he's running over ganstas to save Jesse.
Two different things: he got Jesse involved because Jesse told Walt/Saul that he was going to start dealing again and his "protection" was that he could rat out Walt anytime he wanted to stay out of jail.
Forgot about that. You're right. So wouldn't it make even more sense for Walt to let Jesse get rubbed out since he had already threatened Walt? Of course it would. The problem is Walt is an idiot.
I think the show might not have been as entertaining if Gus had already killed Walt and Jessie.The plot is just getting ridiculous at this point. As I said before Gus would have just killed Walt and Jessie by now. I'm sure if he really needed to he could find a chemist that could replicate the same meth. And even if not a similarly good product. Jessie standing up to him and getting out of line, people don't put up with that crap. He's been a loose end for far too long.
Totally out of character and unbelievable. Not sure how many times I can say it or how many times fans of this show choose to ignore it but Jessie is a loose end. He gets high. He's irrational. He can't be trusted. These guys are moving 400 lbs of meth every two weeks or some craziness and there's no way a guy like Jessie would be involved....impossible. Why did Mike say "I won't make the same mistake twice"?Don't get me wrong, I like the show. I just feel like the envelope has been pushed as far as what is actually believable. That meeting last night with Gus, Walt, Mike and the other guys. Meetings like that are tough to put together. They wouldn't go through all of that to "warn" Jessie? Not even remotely believable. Jessie should have "disappeared" many shows ago. I know he's an integral part of the show but they should have relaxed with his pseudo tough guy attitude long ago. And this loyalty to "Jumbo" or whatever the hell his name was. The guy was a petty street dealer. They never established a bond between he and Jessie and now all of a sudden he's ready to war with cartels over this guys death
And the thing with the kids doesn't make sense either. I want it to work but it just doesn't. The ending with Walt running over the dealers was dumb.
he could have told Walt those Mexicans wanted to kill him earlier but he said that he didn't think fear was a good motivator.
That's a Cunk quote.
fixed, but you did give him a
FYI, "Combo" was good friends with Jesse. At least that's what the show has portrayed them to be. He wasn't just a dealer working for him.Totally out of character and unbelievable. Not sure how many times I can say it or how many times fans of this show choose to ignore it but Jessie is a loose end. He gets high. He's irrational. He can't be trusted. These guys are moving 400 lbs of meth every two weeks or some craziness and there's no way a guy like Jessie would be involved....impossible. Why did Mike say "I won't make the same mistake twice"?Don't get me wrong, I like the show. I just feel like the envelope has been pushed as far as what is actually believable. That meeting last night with Gus, Walt, Mike and the other guys. Meetings like that are tough to put together. They wouldn't go through all of that to "warn" Jessie? Not even remotely believable. Jessie should have "disappeared" many shows ago. I know he's an integral part of the show but they should have relaxed with his pseudo tough guy attitude long ago. And this loyalty to "Jumbo" or whatever the hell his name was. The guy was a petty street dealer. They never established a bond between he and Jessie and now all of a sudden he's ready to war with cartels over this guys death
He also did it to get Jessie to not press charges against Hank.
